Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (
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Ed, I asked you a VERY SIMPLE QUESTION: DID YOU TRY rejumpering the game
for low line condition? If you didn't, then you DID NOT TRY all of the
stock options available to you. PERIOD, END OF STORY!
If you didn't try it, then hacking your game is a BAD solution. Again,
_end_ of story!
Now, on to your post:
"Ed" <efaerman@gmail.com> wrote in news:1122898789.009378.308910
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
> If you would have thoroughly researched this problem, you would realize
> that I did not just make this stuff up. Read up on the subject and
> talk to people that know electronics. Yes, the 5v section of the power
> supply frizzes out enough when the line voltage drops to somewhere in
> the 115v - 117v range as to cause the watchdog circuitry on the CPU
> and/or the comparator circuitry on the Power/Driver board to sense a
> voltage loss and cause a reset. Calling it a San Andreas fault may be
> a valid comparison. You probably have no experience with this issue,
> but many have.
Actually, I've had quite a bit of experience with this issue. How do you
think I know about the low voltage tap? It certainly wasn't from reading
RGP! (Almost all of the past info on RGP on it is _wrong_.)
> So you are suggesting a retap. That means I alter the characteristics
> of the rest of the machine to run at low volts. Now GI's see higher
> voltage. So do the coils and the rest of the machine.
The GI might be an issue. Maybe. But a 20% boost (from 6.3VAC to
7.5VAC) isn't going to do much. Remember, those lamps take +12V when
they're being used in the lamp matrix!
As for the coils, have you ever played an EM machine!?? Those same coils
are taking 110VAC!! COME ON, MAN! Those coils are going to be -just-
fine. And as for the TIP36Cs controlling them, they're rated all the way
up to 100V. Going from 50V up to 60V is NOT GOING TO DO A DAMN THING TO
THEM. Tip102's are even more widely specced, going all the way up to
120V! Nope, no problems _there_, either.
Of course, this assumes that there genuinely is 120V coming in, and
you've left the game at the low voltage setting. _nothing_ will happen,
other than the regulators now putting out more heat because they have to
regulate the voltage down farther. Granted, that's not the optimal
solution, but in home use, who cares.
> I guess when
> evening comes and the system wide electrical load (not just the voltage
> at my house) goes back up to 120 v, I should just rejumper the machine.
Didn't say that. It's safe to ignore it; the components can take it.
(see above) With that said, it would shorten the life of the regulators
if you leave your games on for long periods of time. (I'm willing to
admit that.)
> I guess I could get some kind of voltage monitoring system on the
> house and molex the transformer so that I can hop back and forth
> between high and low tap on the transformer based on the season and the
> time of the day. I could even rig up a fancy make-before-break
> transfer switch so that I can change the tap setting during play if the
> voltage crosses a certain threshhold one way or the other.
It's your money, do what you want with it. If you're so worried about
your power supply, why not make an entire regulated supply, re-regulating
the +50, +25, +12, and +/-100V while you're at it??
> For those that have suggested line conditioners, these work when the
> voltage varies frequently, not when the voltage sags for an extended
> period of time. An inexpensive conditioner just won't keep up.
....which is exactly the reason why they put in a low voltage tap.
> It is weird that you think rerouting two wires off the power-driver
> board is a "hack"
It's a _hack_ when you don't do it completely. If you remove the +5V
supply from the rest of the machine, jump yours in, and then tie the
ground planes together (both case AND logic), then I'd feel better about
it. But you've only replaced the +5V section for _one_ board without
equalizing the logic grounds between boards. What happens if/when the
game's +5V is sitting +5V higher than yours? Answer: the magic smoke
escapes!
> but you have revamped the sound system and that is
> "customized," practically better than factory.
Honestly, no-one has ever had the discussion on whether my stuff is a
hack or not. It is, although (if I do say so myself!) a rather nicely
done hack with a parallel power supply.
(In case you're wondering, I tie the chassis grounds together, but _not_
logic ground since I'm not taking any logic signals from one system to
the other.)
> I am really not here to
> convince anyone of the merit of this idea, I am just putting it out
> there as a practical solution for other hobbyists that might want to
> actually play their games and do not have some mystical fascination
> with keeping everything "in the exact perfection that the designers
> intended."
That's _fine_. The first words on my reply were that I was happy that
you found a solution that works for you. But I'd be hesitant to try that
solution without first exploring ALL of the options that were _built_
_in_ to the game by the designers.
With that said, it's possible that you could have such a foul power
situation that a hack like this may be necessary. _possibly_. But I
kind of doubt it.
> Having said that, if there are valid issues with this fix, I would love
> to hear those too.
See above on case vs. logic grounds.
> Bottom line, here is potentially useful information that someone may be
> interested in. If it doesn't "feel" right to you, then just move on to
> the "opinions wanted" thread, those bashing on BBB, or whatever else
> interests you. Sorry I tried to contribute.
Disagreeing with your opinion doesn't automatically make your opinion (or
solution) invalid. It just means it's your opinion, just as how this
post reflects mine. Many, many people have poked holes in the CFTBL pop
bumper mod, for example. Some have come up with better solutions, some,
well....
The point is that if you get all bent out of shape when _anyone_
disagrees with your implimentation, then you're going to have a hard go
of it. People AREN'T always going to agree. Sorry I don't agree with
you on this one, but I just _don't_.
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