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Will this upgrade matter?

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December 11, 2003 6:20:24 AM

Guys

I have no clue as where to post this question, so I just put it up here and will put out references to it in the Mobo and Memory forums.

I have a two year old rig AMD 1800+XP, 512Mb RAM, MSIK7T266 Pro2 mobo (AGP4x supported), and I am upgrading from a GF3ti500 to a 9600XT (128mb), in an attempt to keep my rig game worthy without putting too many extra bucks in it (euro's in my case).

Some of you may say that the 9600XT is too many bucks but I get HL2 for free with it so that seems to balance out).

Uptonow I have not experienced any probs with the 512Mb but I am wondering whether some memory upgrade can be useful for gaming. Is it worth 50 bucks to add another 256? Will that improve or lengthen the lifetime of the system significantly? (bear in mind that I will have a complete new system one year from now). Also I am not really willing to put the money needed to go to 1Gb unless there is a very good reason for it.

Hope someone can help this newbie out here. I'm not into overclocking/finetuning my system but have some basic knowledge about the components I use. I considered upgrading my cpu but I cannot go over 2100+ without a change of mobo and I dont wanna do that, and I cannot find any 2100's on the market anymore. So I decided to leave that for now and focus on the memory question.




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More about : upgrade matter

December 11, 2003 7:31:44 AM

My opinion is to stick with the 512MB you currently have. Although more RAM helps system's performance improve, I don't think you will see any significant difference. Also, you already have 512MB RAM which you won't be able to use at your next upgrade. I don't think there is any reason to increase them to 768MB, especially since you are going to upgrade in one year from now.
December 11, 2003 8:30:35 AM

The 9600XT supports 8X AGP does your Motherboard support 8X or is only 4X you realy will not benefit from the new card unless the MoB supports the card.
However it should still function and you can always upgrade the main board at a later date. The memory you have could be PC2700 at a speed of 166MHz if you get a new board using PC3200 at 200MHz the new card would be wonderful, then you will see some great game time. Now saying all this makes me now reflect on your CPU you would like to have at least an AMD 2800+ to get any real performance out of the system.

Or you could simply purchase a store made PC that has an Intel CPU and with the memory and motherboard supporting 8X AGP then put in the 9600XT card. ATI already has a deal with DEL and are producing computers for sale with the set-up you are looking for.

You could get the whole box without any peripheral hardware for a reasonable price.

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December 11, 2003 1:59:05 PM

IMO buy a TI4200 if you can get them where you live. Next spring new vid cards are do. Since you will be upgrading your puter next year. Unless you want half life buy 9600XT
December 11, 2003 2:01:46 PM

As always, spouting crap you know nothing about. Do you actually know ANYTHING about computers sod? Are you capable of not spewing inaccurate bs in every post you make?

To the original poster:
There is a minimalistic difference in performance between agp8x and agp4x (<5%). You would probally notice more eyecandy changes and in newer games you would definetly get better performance in them. On the issue of the ram, I'd say if the gameplay is tolerable, stick with the 512mb, the 756mb would be an improvement but I don't know that it would be enough to justify ram that you're going to have to trash in such a short upgrade cycle. If you decide to build a new pc I'd highly suggest waiting until q1/q2 next year at the earliest so you can get the new tech that's coming out (ala pci express, ddr2 memory, next gen vid cards, etc.) Really at this point the longer you can wait, the better off you're going to be... I'm currently holding onto my money and waiting for the new chipsets and video cards to hit the market before I rebuild my pc... thus far I've been able to resist the call of a new graphics card :) 

Shadus
December 11, 2003 2:03:50 PM

Forget about the 8X AGP stuff, it's not going to make a difference for you. Forget about your memory clock speed, you'll probably get your best performance running in synchronously (133) with your processor... if you upgrade your processor and MB, then there's an advantage, otherwise, run it syncronously.

You should get a pretty good boost in gaming performance and your bottleneck will likely be your processor now. You might want to consider a 9800 non-pro, but maybe the free game justifies the 9600XT (not sure what it's costing you, I assume it's similarly priced to 9800 non-pro).

G'luck!
December 11, 2003 6:54:42 PM

Don't Listen to Shadus he was born with way to much anger the problem is he's only 4 and a half feet tall and he has to climb up on his Box just to see out the window. That is why he is afraid to upgrade because its hard to find those large wooden floor model computer cases.

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December 11, 2003 7:01:43 PM

HardwareBoss they have the driver version up to 53.03 win/xp at the Nvidia website for the GeForce cards. I still have my GeForce Ti4200 in another computer and I am not parting with it. It's going to be hard to get one of those.

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December 11, 2003 7:10:53 PM

Dude, you are dumb...do have a clue what you just said or what you meant to say?

Damn Rambus.
December 11, 2003 7:38:36 PM

WTF Shadus is totally right... AGP 4x versus 8x is a bandwitdh thing... its comparable to getting a card with 128MB versus 256MB... again not much point in it. The only time i saw in a benchmark when 8x beat 4x was in 1600x1200 with AA at max and the 9600XT will not be able to handle that anyways. My opinion is to get a 9800 NP, 9700, 9500 pro ( if you can find one) or the geforce ti 4200. I also think Half Life will not be sitting on shelves until around mid Febuary.
December 11, 2003 8:23:30 PM

Quote:
I still have my GeForce Ti4200 in another computer and I am not parting with it. It's going to be hard to get one of those.


First he says Shadus is afraid to upgrade, then he says he's going to cling to his Ti4200 despite there being better cards on the market. Are you afraid to upgrade too?


<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
December 11, 2003 8:28:11 PM

You are right about the bandwidth issue with the 4X and 8X AGP Bus, however the 8X AGP bus was designed to eliminate bottle necks in bandwidth in the new faster chipsets.
Older computers that do not function at high bandwidths will not see any improvement in performance.

The fact that most older computers do not support higher bandwidths is evident in the fact that they do not have support for AGP 8X in the first place.

If you take a system designed for AGP 8X and use memory hard drive and system board + CPU and run a benchmark you will get a numerical score.

Now take a AGP card only rated for 4X AGP and put it into that computer and force that machine to run in AGP 4X and run the same test, you are going to see some pathetic numbers.

Remember they are advancing the technology not making it regressive!!

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December 11, 2003 8:30:57 PM

You should read the system spec on my current machine at the bottom of my posts Moron I mean Zoron.

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December 11, 2003 8:36:13 PM

When you start giving accurate advice, I'll leave you alone, SoD. However, since I don't see that day coming, we'll be here correcting you.

The fact you recommended a Dell speaks volumes on your knowledge of computers. I am also having a hard time believe you actually bought a GeForce 5900... the worst of the high-end cards on the market. The least you could have done if you were going to buy nVidia is get a 5950. Mind you, DirectX 9 will have a way of making that card obsolete that much sooner... :smile:

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
December 11, 2003 8:46:39 PM

Quote:
WTF Shadus is totally right... AGP 4x versus 8x is a bandwitdh thing... its comparable to getting a card with 128MB versus 256MB... again not much point in it. The only time i saw in a benchmark when 8x beat 4x was in 1600x1200 with AA at max and the 9600XT will not be able to handle that anyways.

Try telling SoD that...he'll never listen or give accurate advice.

Damn Rambus.
December 11, 2003 8:59:58 PM

yo you have almost the same sys as me, do you know how high you can clock the 2800+? im considering getting a fx5900ultra, any suggestions? the one by asus in particular

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December 11, 2003 9:09:14 PM

Quote:
Now take a AGP card only rated for 4X AGP and put it into that computer and force that machine to run in AGP 4X and run the same test, you are going to see some pathetic numbers.

No you won't!!! I'll let my 4400 at stock speeds take on any 4800SE (EXACT same card, just 8x AGP), no more than a 5% <b>AT MOST</b>.

Quote:
The fact that most older computers do not support higher bandwidths is evident in the fact that they do not have support for AGP 8X in the first place.

*cough*RDRAM systems*cough* RDRAM with PC1066 has the same 6.4GB/s bandwidth throughput of dual channel DDR400 (might be equal to dual channel DDR333, either way, its bandwidth is very competitive with the newest chipsets). Oh yeah, the i850e chipset is the only chipset that supports RDRAM PC1066...it also happens to only be 4x AGP. So, in fact, total bandwidth does not relate to having AGP 8x.

Quote:
You are right about the bandwidth issue with the 4X and 8X AGP Bus, however the 8X AGP bus was designed to eliminate bottle necks in bandwidth in the new faster chipsets.

There aren't many bottlenecks in the 4xAGP bus...not many cards can push it. And since the AGP bus exclusively deals with the graphics card, there is nothing else to add any sort of bottleneck. I'm not really sure you know what you are talking about when you say it will eliminate bottlenecks in newer chipsets, since it's only repsonsible for the graphics card's bandwidth.

Quote:
Remember they are advancing the technology not making it regressive!!

Agreed that technology doesn't go backwards, but there is nothing that really taxes the 4x bus too much (newer cards tax it easier, but that can generally be counteracted with 256MB of VRAM.

Are you sure you know anything about computers???

Damn Rambus.
December 11, 2003 9:15:07 PM

Quote:
You're simply an idiot

Yup! Too bad n00bs listen to him (his advice doesn't even make sense, so how they make sense of it is beyond me).

Damn Rambus.
December 11, 2003 9:27:01 PM

Quote:
You should read the system spec on my current machine at the bottom of my posts Moron I mean Zoron.


Ohhhh... that's so cuuuute! Did you come up with that on your own or did your Momma help you? I've seen better retorts from 5 year-olds.


<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
December 11, 2003 9:34:31 PM

I have it running at 2.25 GHz and it has been at that setting since I made the computer about 3 weeks ago.
Even with the Nvidia chip set on the new board if I push the system a little higher it seems ok but I have left it at the 2.25GHZ setting and it does everything it is supposed to rather nicely.
No need to melt it down but I have other things to consider when overclocking I run a liquid cooled system and I have to do things carefully.
I have a friend with basically the same system and he is air cooled and also running at 2.25Ghz and is having no issues.

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December 11, 2003 10:14:06 PM

STFU moron, 8x/4x doesn't make a difference in performance with this card. I'm tired of trying to undo the damage you do here, leave now lamer.

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December 11, 2003 10:18:20 PM

Normally I'd suggest the 9600 Pro as it's $50 cheaper than the 9600XT, but since you'll get a certificate for a free $50 game, you might as well get the XT.

Anyway, it will work fine for your system. This card can't benifit from 8x bandwidth, even the 9800 Pro only gets a 1-2% increase in performance using 8x instead of 4x, and that card is far more powerfull (as well as far more expensive).

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
December 11, 2003 11:38:33 PM

Since your mobo is a 266 fsb mobo, you may actually be able to slap an Athlon XP 2400+ into your system, as long as the voltage is set correctly. You may want to check with your mobo manufacturer to see what they say are voltage specs, and research the possibilities...




<font color=blue> Did you know that 89.72% of all quoted statistics are false? </font color=blue>
December 12, 2003 12:09:08 AM

Crashman I will tell you this once you [-peep-] moron you are scum you are a [-peep-] pencil dickless little queer.
I am an electrical Engineer and have more education then you could even imagine you are a grade [-peep-] 12 drop out and you are the [-peep-] clueless [-peep-] COWARD that keeps screwing people around in these posting they DID NOT MAKE AGP 8X AGP BUS so it would run equal to or slower then AGP 4X the fact that you cant understand that simple thing explains the reason trash like you walks around with your finger up your ass.
[-peep-] OFF AND DIE COWARD, INFORMATION CONTROL IS FOR THE CIA NOT CLOWNS LIKE YOU.

HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW you [-peep-] coward!!

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December 12, 2003 12:21:59 AM

This should be fun!!!!

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
December 12, 2003 12:26:52 AM

Re: I am an electrical Engineer....

How many times you gonna tell us that???

Isn't Hommer Simspson some kinda Nuculear Engineer. Does that make him smart? SoDNighthawk your posts speak for themselves.


If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
December 12, 2003 12:37:57 AM

You were bragging about your 2800+ and 2500+ only a week ago...did you not have any pride in your 3200+ for 2 weeks?

Quote:
Even with the Nvidia chip set on the new board if I push the system a little higher it seems ok but I have left it at the 2.25GHZ setting and it does everything it is supposed to rather nicely.

It's supposed to do everything nicely at only 2.25...that's a minute OC, especially for the superior nVidia chipset.

Quote:
No need to melt it down but I have other things to consider when overclocking I run a liquid cooled system and I have to do things carefully.

What liquid might you be using??

Quote:
also running at 2.25Ghz and is having no issues.

I don't see why anybody would have issues at 2.25GHz...it's only an increase of 50MHz!!! Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't stock 3200+s run at 2200MHz (11x200MHz)???? That's only a 2.27[recurring]% increase!!!

Quote:
I have a friend

Yet another lie from SoD.



Damn Rambus.
December 12, 2003 12:46:48 AM

SoDNighthawk, My xp2400 will over clock just as high as your xp3200 Yet my chip is 6 months old and only cost me $100 canadian. I get 2400MHz with air cooling very stable.

When putting all that money into your xp3200 were you using your "I am an electrical Engineer" expeience to make that decision. Dont bother with a I get 200fsb with my CPU... cause so do I. You paid $400 for 256kb of extra cache. A wise investment for an "electrical Engineer"


If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
December 12, 2003 12:48:23 AM

Yeah, so the f-ing bandwidth of 8x is twice that of 4x. BIG F-ING DEAL!!!! What EVERYONE else has been saying is that no current card uses that bandwidth! So eventhough you are right about fact that it is faster...nothing uses the 8x any more than anything would use the 4x.

It's like HDDs, and the ATA/133 vs. ATA/100; the drives can't transfer data that quickly anyway, so getting either will give you the same performance.

8x AGP, although faster in theory (but not in practice due the lack of necessity for it), was only a selling point for graphics cards and mobos.

In practice, 8x AGP is barely, if at all, faster than 4x AGP. It's not that the extra bandwidth isn't there, but rather that the extra bandwidth is not used!

Oh yeah, no one gives a hoot about you being an electrical engineer (which could mean A LOT of things anyway!) or your 'education.' <b>Now get the [-peep-] out of here!!</b>

Damn Rambus.
December 12, 2003 1:43:02 AM

HERE HERE! Atleast the ignorant have been put in their place... but i really do think we will begin to see 8x become useful with titles that churn out pixels like theres no tomorow, like HL2 and Doom 3... il guess wel see.
December 12, 2003 2:37:33 AM

You have to keep in mind that this is the kid that says he can't see the difference when playing a game at 400 fps compared to a game at 200 fps.
And his ti4200 is god.. no other video card compares.

Electrical engineer is to computers as a toaster repairer is to tvs.


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December 12, 2003 3:10:06 AM

LOL, OK mr. "electrical engineer", I help you guys with your computer problems so STFU. LMAO! I'm a mechanical designer, which isn't any closer to understanding the nature of these issues that you. But then I lay down my trump card: I'm a professional hardware review journalist. WOW, that would mean that I've seen more hardware than you, wouldn't it? But wait, I'm also a computer technician, in fact an OEM supplier for a local computer dealer, that's how I put myself through college. Oh, I have to explain things to other technicians, sure. And the people who seem to know the least about maximum and actual performance are the system administrators I keep getting free stuff from. Hmm.

So I suppose you're going to tell me that the old TNT2 actually NEEDED AGP4x (which it had), even though nobody saw performance gains on it? Or that a hard drive that produces maximum continuous data rate of 70MB/s will run faster on an ATA133 controller than an ATA100 controller.

You know, instead of guessing based on these new "features", why don't you actually do some test, like I do. I've got an AIW 9600 Pro (free, because I review computer hardware, hmm), I've tested it at both AGP8x and AGP4x and found nothing greater than 1FPS difference between the two standards. What do you have, some piece of crap 8x card that claims to do DX9 but can't, relying on special code to use DX8 and DX9 features in mixed mode?

I live in Mount Pleasant, MI. I'll meet you at the Casino. Name the time and tell me where you'll be.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
December 12, 2003 3:26:15 AM

Ive seen a few of SoD's posts around and originally I thought he was just some 9 year old kid who thought he knew a lot about computers. But after reading these posts I am pretty sure even a 9 year old isnt that stupid. Think it might just be a guy gettin his kicks out baiting you guys then watching you over react.

Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win your still retarded!
December 12, 2003 6:54:13 AM

Thank you for all of your replies that actually took the trouble of answering my question. It was very informative. Especially the insight in 8x vs 4x AGP and also the memory upgrade itself. With regard to the memory upgrade: although I will get a new system in a year from now, I will pass on this machine in my home network, to my kids (they're very young). Will this change anything? My guess is it will not (I'm not planning on upgrading the OS) but if I'm wrong let me know.

In case some of you are concerned for my (nOOb) intellectual well being, I'm doing fine, thank you. I am quite capable of recognizing silly responses, not always by their technical content but surely in the way they were addressing my question. My question was about keeping my system alive for a year with another $50 on top of the $200 I spent on a 9600XT (+HL2). If someone advises me then to buy a Dell box and put the XT card in that, how do you think I value that advice? (does Dell have a $50 deal with a proper specs? :)  I will not be needing a monitor if that helps. Heheheheh)

I will not bother you with my credentials or educational specifications and it saddens me that anyone should have to pull their acclaimed education out of the hat to make their expertise accepted. It does not work that way. Expertise will speak from the information and advice itself. To all of you who got themselves dragged into this flamewar thing, as long as the answers are obviously silly do not worry too much. Once people start to make partial sense, and start mixing good advice with bad, then it becomes dangerous. On the other hand you people know the target audience here and some 10 to 15 year olds might be susceptible to such rubbish.

Shall we consider this thread closed? Unless someone has additional information on the question at hand of course (see the start of this reply). Thanks again for your participation.




BigMac

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December 12, 2003 11:29:49 AM

You're an absolute dipshit as usual.

Shadus
December 12, 2003 11:31:45 AM

> yo you have almost the same sys as me, do you know how high
> you can clock the 2800+? im considering getting a fx5900ultra,
> any suggestions? the one by asus in particular

Take some advice, sod is clueless-- take anything he says with a grain of salt and get a collaborating opinion before you spend ANY cash.

Shadus
December 12, 2003 12:24:14 PM

Quote:
i really do think we will begin to see 8x become useful with titles that churn out pixels like theres no tomorow, like HL2 and Doom 3

Definitely with Doom3, especially for cards that don't have 256MB of VRAM. I read in another post that D3 has 190MB of textures or something, necessitating at least 190MB of VRAM with all the eye-candy turned on, making 256MB useful for once. If a card doesn't have the 256, it will use system RAM (I believe), which requires heavy usage of the AGP bus...8x might finally have an advantage!

Damn Rambus.
December 12, 2003 12:27:38 PM

Could somebody get banned for using that many peeps? He hasn't said anything since then....maybe he's formulating his next idiotic post. But it would be cool if he were gone.

Damn Rambus.
December 12, 2003 1:11:10 PM

Crashman I will tell you one more time so you have a chance to think about it.
I have worked in the electronics industry for 19 years I am 40 years old.
I have worked on military designs to civilian equipment such as stealth transmission equipment for bombe suits for local police.
I have done everything there is to be done in electronics, I am also fibre Optic certified to add to another of my credentials.
As far as wafer fab goes I have helped to design the wafers used by Nortel Networks for the OC192 main frames that run the internet we are communicating on right now.
I understand exactly how CPU's are made I have held them in my hand so to speak from birth to installation into the substrates.
I have walked the manufacturing floors for ATI, Nvidia and Solestica as well as JDS and Nortel. I have worked in clean rooms from class 100 up to the class 10 range where Wafers and Die's are made.
What you seem to be missing in your logic Crashman is you only know the names of hardware and what you are told how their spec's should function.
I am one of those people that actual designs the CPU's and GPU's and software bundles that make them function. I have an insight into the world of electronics that very few have any idea about.
I do not post information on Tom's for you to argue with that is the problem you have they are not for debate you seem to think that you can decide what is right and what is wrong but the knowledge you apply to those decisions is limited to retail hardware that you read about or purchase when in fact the real functionality of those components is limited to those that design them.

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December 12, 2003 1:55:33 PM

Wow, you are idiot!

Do you think Crash (or anybody else, for that matter) cares about all your supposed work in electronics industry?? No! Does it even related to the argument at hand?? No! Okay, so here goes:

Quote:
I have done everything there is to be done in electronics, I am also fibre Optic certified to add to another of my credentials.

Wrong, simply wrong. You can't have done everything, f-ing idiot. May I ask what fiber optic certified means?? I know I can take an LED and flash it on and off at one end of the line in morse code and have somebody else read it at the other end, is that what you do? Also, what is the point of making that irrelevant statement AGAIN??

Quote:
I understand exactly how CPU's are made

Alright, how EXACTLY are CPUs made??

Quote:
I have held them in my hand <b>so to speak</b> from birth to installation into the substrates.

So to speak!? Ooohh! Does that mean you bought a CPU, took it out of box and held it in your hand?? Probably. As for that whole thing about birth of a CPU, I really have no reason to believe you were even in the same building as a recently fabbed CPU. Also, what is your definition of birth? Mine definition is the time between it was fabbed and tested. Yours is probably between the time you take it out of the box and onto your motherboard.

Quote:
I have walked the manufacturing floors for ATI, Nvidia and Solestica as well as JDS and Nortel.

Glad to hear you took the tours! How was the gift shop?

Quote:
I have worked in clean rooms from class 100 up to the class 10 range where Wafers and Die's are made.

BS...an 'electrical engineer' as dumb as you would never be allowed in those rooms other than for resetting a circuit breaker.

Quote:
What you seem to be missing in your logic Crashman is you only know the names of hardware and what you are told how their spec's should function.

Get over your jealousy and just realize that you'll never know jack about computers, how they work, or the their specs.

Quote:
I am one of those people that actual designs the CPU's and GPU's and software bundles that make them function.

May I ask what company you designed them for?? I really feel that I should sell whatever stock I have in them ASAP.

Quote:
I have an insight into the world of electronics that very few have any idea about.

Yeah, it's called: "SoD's Illogical Nonsense." Get your facts straight, pal...a lot of people read the Best Buy and Radioshack flyers in the newspaper too!

Quote:
I do not post information on Tom's

True, you do post falsities.

Quote:
they are not for debate

True again!! You are consistently wrong and have no basis for debating anything you talk about.

Quote:
you seem to think that you can decide what is right and what is wrong but the knowledge you apply to those decisions is limited to retail hardware that you read about or purchase

Is that not what we are talking about?? If you go want to talk about 'fiberoptics or the CPUs/GPUs that you designed,' go somewhere else. We talk about consumer products here, where we base performance and opinions off of personal experience with the product as well as articles, not who designs it. Frankly, a lot of us here have knowledge beyond that of the retail market as well, like you claim to have. Just everyone else is serious when they say it.

Really SoD, get your facts straight about what we discuss here...

Damn Rambus.
December 12, 2003 2:09:49 PM

SoD, give it up. Really.

You're giving Canucks like myself a bad name.

It's absolutely hilarious that a forum full of people telling you flat out that you're wrong doesn't phase you. You keep on going and going (much like the Energizer bunny) as if you're right and everyone else is wrong. NO ONE agrees with you SoD. That in itself should tell you something.

Yeah, my old boss had a bunch of certificates hanging on the wall too... it really doesn't change anything. He was still as clueless as you when it came to actually doing something concerning computers. All a certificate says is that you took a test and passed it. Big [-peeping-] deal. You can read and write. Congratulations. You have yet to list any REAL credentials... as in which companies did you work for and how long was it before they fired your idiotic ass?

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
December 12, 2003 3:26:54 PM

He's stuck on the concept of education = intelligence (which is another good indicator of being not yet out of HS.) even when the education is in an unrelated field. Even under the assumption that his dad has all of the qualifications he listed he's incapable of understanding that being an expert at one thing doesn't make you an automatic expert at anything related to that thing. Eg: A programmer who designs 3d graphics engines for first person shooters may suck at first person shooters. Someone who can hack togeather great looking and functional levels in [insert game here] may suck at playing the game. Or in his father's case-- electronics knowledge doesn't hurt your ability to build computers and get a nice functional system at the end, but it doesn't make you an authority or even competant for that matter. On top of that if someone is reasonably intelligent and specializes in doing something even if they are a highschool dropout they are going to be better at it than someone who is a generalist and has a doctorate in a related field (except of course where the person has no chance to learn the field because of regulations (eg doctors, school teachers, hair stylists, etc).)

Basically he's still clueless, he still has no idea what's going on, and he's still full of bullshit. Move along! :) 

Shadus
a b à CPUs
December 12, 2003 6:56:06 PM

Quote:
the real functionality of those components is limited to those that design them.

So what you're saying is that what matters is how it looks on paper, not how it performs in actual applications. Because I'll be the first to admit that all my experience in this industry is from real world testing of final, retail products.

"So it works in real life, but how does it look on paper" is something we joke about engineers and scientist saying.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
December 12, 2003 6:57:52 PM

You really need to stop giving crappy advice. Im only 16 with no qualifications and i know more about comps than you. And another thing, what does age have to do with your knowledge? There are lots of older people out there who are just plain dumb. Also, just because you know everything about electronics doesnt mean you know the same about computers. Take my uncle for example, he makes HUD's for the eurofighter, yet he doesnt have a clue about computers.

Please, if you dont know what you're talking about, dont bother to post at all.

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6752830" target="_new">Yay, I Finally broke the 12k barrier!!</A>
December 12, 2003 8:20:17 PM

It's called experience in the workforce son and yes you might be only 16 years old and you could know much about computers, but No you are not an Engineer and Yes I design the computers and parts you learn about.
Stay in school, and your Uncle is a factory worker not an Electronics Design Engineer there is a difference.

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December 13, 2003 2:50:20 AM

You guys are f'ing idiots why are you arguing with SOD he could be bullshitting and he could be telling the truth, to be honest i believe him.

its like that other dude said anyway, arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics even if you win your still retarted

but actually nobody wins. i bet if SOD and you other assholes were arguing face to face he would punch your teeth down your throat and id be holding your faggot asses in a full nelson while he did. so F'ing chill forums are to help people not attack them. EVERY ONE NEEDS TO ROCK THE GANJ AND RELAX

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December 13, 2003 11:17:31 AM

You are absolutely right CaptainTrap and I have been not posting to much of what they say because arguing on the internet is a waste of time. I only replied to a few of them out of courtesy but the other 12 or so I did not.

Barton 3200+ 400MHz
A7N8X Deluxe
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GeForce FX5900
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SONY CD 52x
SONY RW 52x/24x/52x
SONY DVD 16x/40x
December 13, 2003 11:20:12 AM

Oh the SoD part is a clan tag for an old game I used to play years ago and the clan was called the Soldiers OF Death Clan.
My net name is Hawk in fact friends call me Hawk but mostly when we are drunk ;)  I got that nick name years ago for other reasons.

Barton 3200+ 400MHz
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Maxtor DiamondMaxPlus9@80Gig
SONY CD 52x
SONY RW 52x/24x/52x
SONY DVD 16x/40x
!