What do you guys think of Michael Jackson?

I'm watching the 2hr special right now on ABC "Michaels Secret World".

I've seen the first Bashir documentary, and read all the news updates, so I shouldnt be shooting from the hip here..

but I honestly have serious doubts he did anything wrong.

I have yet to see a single shred of evidence, or a single credible accusation against MJ yet. Thats my view.

Hes had dozens of boys as friends and all but 2 have never said he did anything wrong.

On the 1st payout in '93.. the way I see it is: if you really feel you were wronged, why would you accept any amount of cash? Wouldnt you want that person to go to jail???
I would if that was my child. If my child was honestly molested by some freak, I'd have him in court on criminal charges then settle the civil suit for cash.

I pretty much disregard settlements, because it was never proven. I view payout like MJs as ways for celebrities to keep down bad press.

I'm not saying MJ isnt a wierd, wierd fellow (like most indulgent wealthy people).

On these new charges, this family is SO shady, if you've read about what they are basing the kidnapping charges on its ABSURD.
While this family was kidnapped, they were ringing up hundreds of dollars in phone calls all over, shopped anywhere they wanted.. its just simply absurd.

What, out of $300 in long distance phone calls, 911 was out of reach?

<b>OR</b>
When MJ cut off the cash for whatever reason (its his money), they flipped the fk out and started this charade?
They know how strange and wierd hes percieved.

But hes not budging this time unlike the 93 settlement, hes straight up pissed and from all the facts I've read about this case, its a complete joke.


If he did do it, by God.. put him away and torture him.
I'm a conservative guy (for instance, I think they should be using horrible and repulsive torture at Abu Garib in interrogations).. and I generally dont look kindly upon child abuse (at all).
Simply put, I'd have no problem with the death penalty for child molestors. Shits just unacceptable.

But going by the facts, I just cannot come down on MJ yet.

I mean, they both have fingerprints on a porn mag in Michaels home? WTF does that mean? That a kid found an adults porn mag and looked at it? Even if they looked at it together, is that a crime or is it just merely wrong.

Boy, I hope to God no one finds my playboys in my house.. or I'll all of the sudden be a convicted child molestor.
I used to sneak in and read my uncles porns that were in his bathroom all the time growing up, now thats evidence in his molestation trial? Right.


I think the whole thing is a bunch of bullshit, as every piece of information I've seen is based off speculation and twisted out of context.

What do you all think?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by GAME on 02/17/05 09:59 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

I think I'm tired of hearing about him.

<font color=blue>War</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Eagle</font color=orange> 13-0!
<font color=red>#8 FOREVAH!!!</font color=red>

Poor Michael. He cut off his nose to spite his face. Actually, he just cut off his nose.



You've tried and failed. The lesson here is, never try again. -- Homer Simpson.

MJ is a sick puppy, no doubt about it. He was not raised as most, and had a lifestyle that had everything but normalcy and stablilty. He created a fantasy world for himself and no doubt whatever extent his relationships with kids went to, it was improper and exploitive.
He is guilty of child mollestation but whether or not he is convicted depends on the corrupt legal system he is manipulating.
I have no mercy for that pediophile.

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>

I just have an internal dislike for child molesters. Probally related to having children myself and seeing how vulnerable and impressionable they are when young, and wish well for all children as a result.

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>

I agree, and am sceptical of the media hoopla also. For the first few years, I dismissed allegations as BS and rooted in greed, but the more I hear reports, the more the smoke looks like fire...
BTW, a innocent verdict does not prove innocense, and a guilty verdict does not prove guilt...but a guilty verdict does have more clout than an innocent one...

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>

I think you're a racist, here's why:

So what do you mean with this statement? That Iraqies in jail can be tortured? Why do you think it is fair to torture Iraqi's? Or are you in favor of tortute in general (children excluded, apparently)? I do hope this is not a general accepted conservative point of view. You must be flabbergasted by the fact that those american soldiers who did commit those acts were actually sentenced.



BigMac

<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>

talk about twisting some ones words!

this is my boomstick!

sir, your grammar is dysfunctional.... lol



i didn't say that.... it was... it was some one two three four fevi sxi svene ighte neni net evelen otvelwe irtheent ourfneet infteef inxstee.... oi moi boi, oim boired

</font color=red><b><font color=orange>I believe in my penis, it has the power to create life.

Yes, you read right. But you are twisting things.
Those people held captive are not all Iraqi, most are insurgents from other nations fighting their battle on Iraqi soil.
TERRORISTS can and should be tortured to get information to save other lives.

Absolutely.

If that makes me a "racist" (what a lame and punkass term to throw around, seriously), so be it.

I dont care if the enemy is brown, black, blue or white.. [-peep-], it'd be MORE enjoyable to see some old Nazi's tortured for their crimes.
They deserve it, and I bet we "tortured" nazis to get info to save lives in WW2 as well.

Tortured is in quotes, because torture to a liberal means just about f'n anything.

A liberal would just let the bastards eat 3 square meals a day, drink cristal and free tickets to disneyland as they enjoy their stay.



Its funny: its ok for terrorists to sensely bomb and cut off peoples heads.. but we cant even put pressure on captured enemy combatants! In an attempt to save more American lives.

AMAZING! Somehow, (to a liberal) we end up being the bad guy no matter what.

I'm not going to go off track on this thread with this anymore, but I hope I cleared some things up.. or at least created more questions for you.


In conclusion, i think you are a tool. That is why.

I just noticed you were from the netherlands, so its clear why you dont understand reality and are in a liberal wonderland.
But ya, <b>in the real world (not the liberal theoretical wunderland), you do whatever it takes to get information to save more of your nations boys. Period.</b>

I just came out of another topic, which may have caused me to use this term. It was meant to provoke a (serious) reaction, I did not mean to label you personally as such, you can take that as an apology if you like.

The problem with it is that it is not certain that those in Abu Graib are terrorists, in fact it is almost certain that there are innocent people there that were just in the wrong place at the wrong moment. I have a problem with torturing innocent people, in fact I have a problem with torturing anyone and that includes terrorists because I think you lower yourself to their standards if you start torturing terrorists. I understand that that brings along practical problems in trying to get information out of suspected terrorists in order to fight terrorism, but it should never lead to lowering your own standards. Same reason why I do not believe in the "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" approach.

who said that's ok? It's not ok, but it is also not ok to start using the same means as those that you despise so much.

You're not the bad guy (as a conservative or otherwise) but I am trying to point out to you that life is more complicated than black&white, certainly if you want to uphold a certain minimum set of moral values.

Well, that's an improvement already, I got you thinking (I hope).

Actually I'm not that much of a liberal (in my own opinion) but I leave it up to others to judge that, and I think I'm a liberal in the context of this board, where I live we do not use the word liberal in the same way. You mean it as an opposite of conservative, whereas over here (the Netherlands) it is used to label a proponent of free enterprise, and reducing government influence (law making, personal freedom of individuals), by dutch definition I'm a social liberal .


BigMac

<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>

I have had the pleasure to meet a person from Netherland while on an out of town job. He was vacationing alone and riding an endearo motercycle across the U.S from coast to coast taking backroads. Very nice man, with strong accent, and could tell from eating breakfast with him that he was of good character but very different culture. Yes he was more trusting of government and less cynical, but mind you, we have GWB as president...Just seems to make me take things with a grain of salt is all...

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>

My view on this is: why are they there on the battlefield to even be captured? If they dont want to be held captive, then they should be leaving areas where the insurgents are fighting allied forces.

Its not like John Doe gets caught while plowing his fields in Iraq.
They are caught by gunpoint, usually after dropping their guns first.
What innocents!

If there was the same situation happening here in the USA, and a massively superior force was coming in to remove our violent dictator, I'd be getting out of Washington/Fallujah with my family very quickly.
There'd be no capturing me, cuz I wouldnt even be around.

Thats a philosophical argument, and great as long as its not you or your kids whose lives might depend upon possible information being released.


The best way to hit this one home, is to imagine one person kidnapped your daughter and you found his accomplice.
You are telling me you wouldnt do whatever it took to get that man to squeal to find out where your daughter is before shes raped and killed?

You'd have a whip on his back and scalp the bastard within 10minutes.
I know I would.

I would be the first to leave if I had a family to care for.
Beautiful home or not.

About the prisoners, the people in fallajuh know they are in a terrorist stronghold.. and common sense would tell you to get the hell out of dodge.
Very few areas in Iraq are like Fallujah, they are stronghold cities that are resistant because they are filled with the violent minority that ruled with Saddam.

They dont want to conform to the new order, and by placing themselves there.. they are asking for trouble.
I dont know how to get around that.

Its kind of the way things go when a dictator is overthrown and a democracy sweeps a nation.
Stay out of the way of the forces of freedom, or get smashed.

Hmm? So it WOULD be a philosophy?

I view the American soldiers in harms way as my children.
Because if we dont take care of them, I'm next to go. Its a harsh reality, and a harsh world.. so we have to deal with things in harsher ways than some might like.

You'd do ANYTHING for your girls. Period.
You'd smash someones brains open if you could only extract the information that way.
You'd break all the rules in the book and risk going to jail for the rest of your life for them.
Thats what the USA needs to do, do whatever it takes to extract that information from these battlefield combatants. And stop caring what the rest of the world thinks.
Flatout, a bad father who would do otherwise.
This is real life!

I dont see why other citizens of my nation (who are sons and daughters) shouldnt get the same care by the US Government, that I'd give to my own family.

As far as the less dramatic example, I like the dramatic and realistic one.. because thats whats going on right now in the world.

The less dramatic ones dont relate properly to war.

You mean Armygeddon?

BigMac

<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>