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Laser mice WTF?

Last response: in Computer Peripherals
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December 5, 2010 3:12:15 PM

Ok so I have had a Razer Diamondback for possibly 5+ years . I LOVE this mouse. I can't seem to part with it, but I know I will need to because it will eventually lose support and/or die. Things I love about the mouse: great speed variety, on-the-fly adjustment with on screen display, and most importantly it's LOW PROFILE. I partially palm my mouse, under my pointer/middle finger only, NOT under my ring/pinky at all.

The only thing I dislike about the mouse is the side buttons, which I use for CoD type games. They are too small and sit above where my thumb rests, so it takes extra concentration to reach them without losing accuracy.

Over the last two years I have tried to "upgrade" to a new mouse, most have been optical:
Deathadder - Too fat vertically, lose support of one of the side buttons for on-the-fly adjustments. Sold back on eBay.
MX518 - So close, but no cigar. A bit too big, but a nice mouse. Sold back on eBay.
Lachesis - Borrowed this one. No comment on it's suckness.
Deathadder 3.5 - I was stupid enough to buy this mouse again. I quickly remembered why I hated it. Sold it back on eBay.
Copperhead (laser) - Currently trying out this mouse. A bit fat, but not too bad.

I have read a lot about how laser mice suck for games, and thus have strayed from them. However in my desperation I recently bought a Razer Copperhead. The reason being that it is almost an exact match to my Diamondback, but fixes my primary problem; the side buttons are now where my thumb is. However, I have noticed that the mouse is "jumpy" and tends to move in a wave-like pattern when moving left-to-right. I have included a picture to demonstrate what I mean. You can see the Copperhead laser (on top) does not make a straight line and tends to curve up/down, while the Diamondback optical (bottom) easily comes close.



I have also noticed that while scrolling across text my Copperhead cursor appears to move above and below the text instead of straight across it, while the Diamondback just glides down the center of the text.

I have disabled Win7 mouse acceleration with CPLmousefix. I have updated the latest drivers and firmware for the Copperhead. I want to like this mouse, even though its a bit chubby, but what is the deal with the tracking??? Are all laser mice truly like this?

If there is no fix for this issue and it is inherent in laser mice, can anyone suggest a low profile optical mouse alternative to my Diamondback? I have looked into the SteelSeries Ikari, but the Optical has ridiculous lift-off. There is a laser alternative, but will I have these same issues?

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December 5, 2010 7:33:44 PM

It's definitely not a problem inherent to laser mice - my Logitech G9 doesn't do that at all. Where did you read that laser mice suck for games? In general, laser mice tend to be more accurate than optical, and I've found them to work on a larger variety of surfaces too.
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December 5, 2010 7:53:51 PM

Well, I've read in many places they suck. Just today I was here;
http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302304

And my friend with the Lachesis dislikes it as well, predominantly because of the lift-off.

I ordered a new Ratpadz yesterday, but if that doesn't correct it, then this thing is going back on eBay.
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December 6, 2010 6:18:52 PM

felix... i used a logitech mx1000 laser for over 5 years of gaming. It worked great on mmorpgs, fps and rts. Since laser mice often have very high dpi settings remember to take time to either fiddle in game or in the mouse software package to adjust to the game you will be playing. The only jumpiness i have seen is if i accidentally lifted the mouse off the mousepad (which launches the cursor accross the screen). Jumpiness could also occur if you are not using the mouse on a propper surface (ie reflective, glass, no "texture" for it to see)


As cjl stated: laser mice are great for gaming. People just expect a new mouse to work just like every other product and do not "tune" them to their taste. I'll even one up on cjl - even "wireless" laser mice work well for games.. even fps!
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December 6, 2010 8:14:49 PM

I have tuned it. I spent over two hours tuning it, switching between DPI, polling rate, mouse smoothing, RAW mode, and mouse acceleration. Forget about it. A little overhead is understandable, a lot is not for pricey gear.

I plugged my Diamondback in when I first bought it, set the DPI, and simply adjust the sensitivity per game and no issues. Same goes for my mx518. That is how it should work for all mice. That's optical. Laser IS jumpy and OVERsensitive. It is a marketing ploy, just as DPI is. I have to set my 2000dpi laser (now considered low by dpi standards) to 400dpi just for the mouse to be acceptable and not jump or dodge when moving quickly in small areas (sniping).

I lift my mouse, as do many many people, pro's especially. That means laser mice are not acceptable as they track heavily after picked up.

In my experience so far, 800-1600dpi optical mice are the best, the most reliable, and the most accurate - in games. Who cares about what mouse specs are on paper, I have learned that means nothing in game.

There is plenty of documentation out there on the net as I have discovered since posting this.
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December 7, 2010 2:54:39 PM

look at the coolermaster storm sentinel advanced, I own one I find it very comfortable and it is not chubby, the gigabyte m8000x ghost is not too bad either

this is also a decent mouse http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/mice/device...

i think there is a corded version of it so no worries
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December 7, 2010 11:22:53 PM

That Logitech looks kinda fat, but those first two look nice. Too bad they are laser ;(
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December 8, 2010 2:59:29 AM

felixthecat86 said:

I lift my mouse, as do many many people, pro's especially. That means laser mice are not acceptable as they track heavily after picked up.

Ahh. That would be a problem then. I play at a fairly high sensitivity, and I have a large mousepad, so I basically never need to lift my mouse.

I have to say though, I haven't noticed any problems with jumpiness or oversensitivity. I might have just gotten lucky though. I do love my G9.
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December 8, 2010 7:18:04 PM

same cjl... my old wireless laser mouse was a beast at gaming, even in FPS. it all depends on how you use a mouse. for people that pick up their mouse optical is a requirement.

As far as finding an exact replacement: you might not find one that is perfect. You will adjust to any new mouse given a week or two as long as you give it a go. If you "need" a perfect fit try going to bestbuy, microcenter, staples, or any store that carries mice in your area. as long as it is optical you can adjust it to work perfect.
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December 10, 2010 11:57:35 AM

well... you could always get a huge mouse pad, the GIGABYTE® MP8000 Series Gaming Mousepad - High Precision, Large Surface, Speed & Control mousepad is huge! I have one, I used to lift my mouse when I snipe and so on in call of duty ( I had an optical mouse), but not anymore since I got my new mouse and a the mouse pad, If you have enough space its worth it!
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December 11, 2010 1:44:40 AM

I actually think I am going to try the NZXT Avatar mouse. It looks odd, but it might do the trick for me. It's only 30 on newegg.
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December 11, 2010 6:36:15 PM

Laser is great but your main problem is getting a Laser mouse by Razer. They all use the twin eye laser by Phillips which is plauged with problems. Random mouse acceleration, crappy liftoff, and inconsistent tracking at high DPI.

Logitech makes their own lasers which has none of the mentioned problems. Laser is in every way better than optical if you get a mouse with a good sensor. Be advised, many mice despite brand shares the sane sensor. Theres only a couple of laser sensors around, te logitech ones are by far the best.
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December 13, 2010 3:06:35 AM

Thanks for the tips. I think for now I will resort using my Diamondback till it dies. I have managed to get my laser Copperhead to acceptable standards, so I will likely switch to that when the Dback goes out. The Copper still tracks ridiculously high off my mousepad, but what can you do. That NZXT Avatar was tempting me, but I hear it's cheaply made and won't last a year. I've had my Diamondback for over 4 years, still going strong. The Razer Habu tempted me as well, since I don't fully palm, the ability to move the side buttons back on the mouse seems great. However, I read that it has cable issues. There is a cheap fix with sticky tack, but it makes your mouse look dumb.
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June 13, 2011 2:38:27 PM

felixthecat86 said:
Thanks for the tips. I think for now I will resort using my Diamondback till it dies. I have managed to get my laser Copperhead to acceptable standards, so I will likely switch to that when the Dback goes out. The Copper still tracks ridiculously high off my mousepad, but what can you do. That NZXT Avatar was tempting me, but I hear it's cheaply made and won't last a year. I've had my Diamondback for over 4 years, still going strong. The Razer Habu tempted me as well, since I don't fully palm, the ability to move the side buttons back on the mouse seems great. However, I read that it has cable issues. There is a cheap fix with sticky tack, but it makes your mouse look dumb.



Hello there I know this might be a little late, but the images u have posted above on the jumpy issue is A GOOD FEATURE, and it's not laser mice that's doing it, oPtical too, on razer website it's called ANTI MOUSE DRIFT, where ur old diamond back would correct it's self into straight lines, the newercopper head will have a correct reading, LETS fACE IT, NO ONE COULD DO A STRAIGHT LINE LIKE THAT EVEN WITH A PEN, u need a ruler.
Right now the best option fo u would be the newer diamond back 3g, or the boomslang CE :o  u might think I'm lieing about it, but theres actually a new one near me, (thers only 1000 boomslang ce made). any way if u are gona get logitech with ur grip style, I would recommend g9 since u don't use high dpi, and trust me laser is same thing as optical, no better no worse, and in logitech they call the drifting mouse issue, ANGLE SNAPPING. good luck, I hope I'm not too late to help u :) 
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June 13, 2011 2:51:15 PM

I switched from a Razer Naga to a Cyborg V5 and absolutely love it. The tracking feels a bit more accurate than the Naga did, and it glides on my SteelSeries SX metal surface. It's also much lower and has a great feel to it once you customize the palm (and thumb on the V7/9). I don't pick up my mouse often (at least that I'm aware of), so I can't comment on the jumpiness issue. Like ssddx mentioned, I noticed a significant improvement in tracking and feel when I switched my Naga from a cloth to a metal surface.
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