a scary experiment

[Nights_L]

you know, it's Chrirstmas Vacation! so I got nth to do at home. I re-read some THG's articles, the "AMD Athlon 64 and FX51 vs P4EE" sth like that (forget the title :tongue: )
by downloading the short movie that they shown, I saw how P4 and A64 are protected against heat problem
then i'm curious, Athlon XP should have heat protection right??
In my mobo manual, it says it has "Thermal Protection" for AMD AthlonXP, which will shut down the computer when the CPU is higher than a certain temperature that I set.
There you go! by curiousty, I was trying if it really works..
I shut down the computer, and unplug the CPU Fan. Start the computer, get into Bios and set the limit temperature to 70C. Get into Windows, I start the program that monitoring cpu temperature, it's now at 39C.
oh, by the way, it's a XP2600+ (333FSB@2.08Ghz)
I started SUPER PI, and let it calculate..
39..40..41..42..43..44..and so on, the temperature keeps increasing.
when it hits 50, I can barely touch the heatsink for 2 secs!
50..51..52..53..54..55..keep increasing, when it reaches 71C, the computer didn't shut down
so i was thinking "oh well, the thermal protection is not working as MSI said"
while I was thinking to shut down the PC manually, "POOF", the computer shuts down suddenly, I didn't do anything, it's just gone.
wow, great, it's working! I should be happy to see..but wait..
I opened the case, plug the cpu fan back, push the power button. The computer doesn't turn on.
What is going on? I turn on and off PSU, push power button again, not working. I push the rest button, not working
geez, did I just fry my CPU or mobo??
I reset the Bios a few time, push the buttons again. It just won't turn on. I leave it cool down for about 5min, do everything I just mentionned again..
IT'S NOT WORKING, the computer just won't start, nth happens
geez..I'm gonna have to spend money I just earn to buy a new PC again...
wait, maybe I should try last thing, I remove the heatsink and CPU from motherboard, I put both of them outside (it's -10C outside)
I wait about 3 min, I bring them back, and installed them as it should..
I push the power button..
it's working! computer starts as it should.
"oof.." I won't need to spend money again..but on the other hand, i just lost another reason to get a nForce2 mobo to replace my KT333 .. :tongue:
Finally, just want to know if any of you ever tried this kind of things? I have no money, i'm not dare to do what THG did..remove the heatsink while it's running
AND, I'm not dare to try this again..
Another reason I tried this is because one of my friend is using the same board, he told me that his computer often crashes for no reason, he thinks it should be heat problem, cuz after his computer crashes, he said the Temperature is at 67C (in Bios), so I wanted to tell him whether the mobo is able to protect cpu or not..


-AMD Athlon XP 2600+ (333FSB@2083Mhz)
-MSI KT3-Ultra2, VIA KT333 based
-Micron DDR-SDRAM PC2700@ 2.5/2/2/5
-Sapphire Radeon8500LE 250/500
-Sound Blaster Audigy
-Enermax 350W PSU

 

[SoDNighthawk]

I think the problem is the heat-sink material you used from your space ship, it is incompatible with the ions in the earths BIO-Sphere. I recommend going back to your planet with the receipt and fill out the full liquid metal complaint form at the front desk......That CPU is deader then a Clingon Targ.........................Anyone else posts to this I will personaly slap them!!

Barton 3200+ 400MHz
A7N8X Deluxe
Liquid
2x512 KinstonHyperX PC3200
GeForce FX5900
Maxtor DiamondMaxPlus9@80Gig
SONY CD 52x
SONY RW 52x/24x/52x
SONY DVD 16x/40x

 

[Zoron]

Learn how to spell Klingon, p'tak.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>

 

[HardWareBoss]

Bet you will not do that again.

 

[Snorkius]

Go back to collecting fairy dust!

<font color=blue>If the <font color=yellow>laurel</font color=yellow> is to big for your head, it becomes a hoola-hoop, and you have to keep your butt really busy.</font color=blue>

 

[pIII_Man]

didn't you watch that old thgc video that showed the thermal protection cannot react fast enough to shut down the cpu (btw isn't it crazy my piii has a feature that your AXP doesn't)?


If it isn't a P6 then it isn't a procesor
110% BX fanboy

 

[GIPNOR]

I did something similar with a blow torch. My PC was running, I didn't unplug the fan, and I angled my blowtorch directly on the heatsink fins. It caught a few of my power supply cables on fire and toasted one of my IDE ribbon cables. It also burned a f***ing hole in my MB. I think my thermal goo held up nicely though (AS).

The d*** thing didn't work afterwards no matter what I did... but I think that had mostly to do with the foam stuff I had to spray in there to put the flames out. I highly recommend investing in fire retardent IDE ribbon cables if you decide to duplicate my experiment.

My next experiment is going to be on a PC for the tub. Think of all the nerds that would be encouraged to bathe regularly lately if they could wash with their PC in front of them!

 

[pIII_Man]

i hope you are joking...


If it isn't a P6 then it isn't a procesor
110% BX fanboy

 

[GIPNOR]

What, about the bathing part?

 

[Nights_L]

no I won't..that's why I called it "scary experiment"

 

[Nights_L]

yes I did..that's another reason why I did it ONLY without cpu fan and not removing heatsink as well..

 

[Nights_L]

Anyone else posts to this I will personaly slap them!!

why? although I did sth stupid, why you have to slap people if they post to it?

 

[pIII_Man]

How fast was the temp rising, i suppose with the heatsink on it really shouldn't rise THAT fast. Anyhow, i think i'll hold on to my tully for now...


If it isn't a P6 then it isn't a procesor
110% BX fanboy

 

[SoDNighthawk]

It was supposed to be a joke Nights_L, not like a Robin Williams joke but more like British Humour like Monty Pythons Flying Circus.

gee I hope he doesn't ask me to explain what a Monty is or even the flying circus part

Barton 3200+ 400MHz
A7N8X Deluxe
Liquid
2x512 KinstonHyperX PC3200
GeForce FX5900
Maxtor DiamondMaxPlus9@80Gig
SONY CD 52x
SONY RW 52x/24x/52x
SONY DVD 16x/40x

 

[c0d1f1ed]

A similar thing happened to my Celeron 1.2 GHz. It has a Tualatin core, which turns off the CPU when it gets hotter than 72 degrees.

I'm cooling it passively with a Zalman flower cooler. One day I wanted to test if it still stayed cool if I removed my (very slow and noiseless) case fan. Well, a tiny bit of airflow really made a big difference because it exceeded the critical temperature after some benchmarks.

But it was really creepy that it didn't want to start any more even after installing the case fan again and waiting till the heatsink was touchable again. Only many minutes later it started up again.

So, either the core stayed really hot for a long time, or there's some kind of extra safety in it that doesn't allow you to start again right after the termal incident.

I find it strange though that my processor and your motherboard show the same behaviour...

 

[Crashman]

THG removed the sink while the system was running for a very good reason: To prove that the protection mechanism would work should a system get knocked over, I believe. You see, it's VERY common in the office environment for a system to get knocked over, and these heavy heatsinks often pop off when this happens. Forget special 4 point mounted coolers, we're talking about standard office systems. It's been the contention of companies like Dell that Intel systems are better for such use because of situations like this.

There are additional reasons for Dell not to go AMD, such as earlier backorders, etc, problems with VIA chipsets, etc, and incentives from Intel. For those later reasons Dell has become Intel's right arm! But Dell isn't the "only" large supplier of office systems.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[darko21]

Re: and incentives from Intel.
That's the key here everything else is just a poor excuse in-order to justify the ends. That and Intel pays for a good portion of there advertising with the intel inside tune on their adds. Dell needs advertising in a big way (no stores)

Dell has no excuse for ripping consumers off with the celron systems they sell which could contain a cheaper and better performing athlon.

I hate Dell.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.

 

[Crashman]

IN fact Dell has had several "excuses"
1.) Until last year, ALL AMD chipsets were problematic garbage. Dell doesn't change that fast
2.) The likelyhood of heat damage
3.) AMD had shipping shortages, couldn't keep up with demand, which is why Gateway dropped them temporarily. Dell doesn't change that fast, they still remember.

#1 was the biggest deal, #3 was a HUGE factor. Oh, and let's not forget the incentives from Intel.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[darko21]

IN fact Dell has had several "excuses"

Well, at least your calling what they are Excuses..

Intel has had it's share of problems. remember rambus and the early recall for mother boards.. or the faulty p3 at 1giz THG helped them recall but it never really matterd cause intels big customer dell only ever shipped 2 or 3 comps with this CPU. Like I said Dell has no excuse ripping off uninformed consumers by selling the celeron system..

As far as I'm concerned dell just sugar coats their bull crap and probably always will.

The overheating argument can be addressed with a modern motherboard and bios somthing dell could easliy do with there expertise. Don't ya think?

Re: Until last year, ALL AMD chipsets were problematic garbage.

If this be true will Dell now change? I won't argue that Intel can make a great chip set or that Intel for the most part (times) offers the top performing CPU. But Dells stance is dispicable at least in my opinion.


If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.

 

[jihiggs]

dell doesnt need excuses for why they dont use amd chips, they need REASONS to switch to amd chips. why would they? intel is proven by the test of time to be reliable. and im not talking about system stability or speed.

wpdclan.com cs game server - 69.12.5.119:27015

 

[Nights_L]

the temp was rising gradually, like 1 deg/2~3sec..so yeah, it didn't rise THAT fast

 

[Nights_L]

even though my computer is not an office system, my pc still often get knocked, that's why i'm a bit worried
Just a question, what system are you using? AMD or Intel? and which one do you personaly prefer?

 

[Nights_L]

Are the Celerons' protection mechanism as good as Pentium?

 

[GIPNOR]

What everyone should understand regarding DELL, is that there's more to being a PC manufacturer than performance. The average consumer doesn't know what a FSB is or any of the other common topics you find in this forum.

DELL and Intel have a partnership. There is the cost factor, Intel's ability to deliver processors and supporting MB's in a timely fashion (Dell uses Just-In-Time delivery for much of it's manufacturing process... meaning their suppliers stock them AS they need componants). This helps DELL keep their inventory low and their manufacturing process lean -- it's an operations goal manufacturers stive for... low/no inventory!

Can AMD accomodate this? How do average consumers feel about owning an AMD machine? It's certainly not DELL's job to support or advertise for AMD.

Whether or not somebody likes DELL, you should be impressed with what they've managed to do. My father was buying a PC and though I was more than happy to help him with problems, I suggested he buy a DELL. My biggest reason was that I felt good about the quality of their componants AND their level of support.

Has there EVER been a major manufacturer that successfully sold AMD processors in the majority of their machines? How well is AMD able to supply manufacturers? I suppose a manufacturer is forced to deal with AMD *and* a MB supplier, where DELL might be able to deal with Intel for both!

I own both AMD and Intel machines. I like AMD as an enthusiest, but I'm still not sure how/if they are going to break into the major manufacturing channels. I think MS's delay on their 64bit OS really screwed AMD out of a big lead they held over Intel with 64bit processing. I was thinking that 64bit processing was going to provide AMD with a way to pull some marketshare from Intel. This seems less likely now.

 

[darko21]

Re: DELL and Intel have a partnership.

That's the key here is it not?

Every single issue can be addressed. Dell has the expertse to construct a reliable stable cheaper faster entry level system using AMD over the Celeron.

Why then won't Dell do this? because.... DELL and Intel have a partnership.


Re: There is the cost factor, Intel's ability to deliver processors and supporting MB's in a timely fashion (Dell uses Just-In-Time delivery for much of it's manufacturing process... meaning their suppliers stock them AS they need componants). This helps DELL keep their inventory low and their manufacturing process lean -- it's an operations goal manufacturers stive for... low/no inventory!

So your saying Dell has been in talks with AMD about the above concerns. We are not asking Dell to drop Intel here just just put amd into the mix. This is not going to happen anytime soon WHY>>>> because DELL and Intel have a partnership.

Dell has (gets) advantages being Intels biggest buyer and dealing exclusivly with Intel. I know it's a free market and Dell never has to deal with AMD.. But I hate all the rehtoric excusise people come up with about how bad AMD is..

If a jounalist were to ask dell are you now going to start including AMD in your production line. Dell cannot reply "DELL and Intel have a partnership" and we don't want to jeperdise that. They say instead somthing like (Dell uses Just-In-Time delivery for much of it's manufacturing process... meaning their suppliers stock them AS they need componants). This helps DELL keep their inventory low and their manufacturing process lean -- it's an operations goal manufacturers stive for... low/no inventory!

Other big OEM's use AMD with no problems if there are concerns they address them.. I'll call a spade a spade. In my opinion it's all bull the real reason is because.....DELL and Intel have a partnership.


If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.