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Help with math please...

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December 22, 2003 7:41:16 PM

I currently have an AMD2500 which is running at stock 1.8. How does this processor "come close" to a Pentium running at 2.6 Ghz? My FSB is running at 166.

I guess my real question is how does AMD consider a processor running at 1.8 equal to something near "2500"?

I am asking because I was consider getting another machine (P4 2.6) because I can't overclock my 2500.

TIA!

More about : math

December 22, 2003 9:08:30 PM

<A HREF="http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030521/800fsb-09.htm..." target="_new">see for yourself</A>... Not too well, but it's far from requiring an upgrade (you'd have to buy a whole new system: CPU, RAM and mobo!)
Quote:
I guess my real question is how does AMD consider a processor running at 1.8 equal to something near "2500"?

Let me ask you this, how can you compare 2 processors just by their clockrate? AMD was forced to use this system because people kept thinking it's processors weren't as good as Intel's 'cause they were clocked lower, when in fact, they have a much better price/performance.

I know what everyone's been wondering - 2^33634943-1 IS NOT PRIME. Now, wasn't that worth running <A HREF="http://www.mersenne.org" target="_new">Prime95</A> for a month to know?
December 22, 2003 9:12:06 PM

Oh, I forgot to say the AMD's numbering method is extremely optimistic and their processors of similar rate can't compare with Intel's new C series.

I know what everyone's been wondering - 2^33634943-1 IS NOT PRIME. Now, wasn't that worth running <A HREF="http://www.mersenne.org" target="_new">Prime95</A> for a month to know?
Related resources
December 22, 2003 9:56:25 PM

Actually, when the xp2500+ first came out, it did very well against the 2.66 P4. How can Intel call it a 2.66 when it does so poorly against the 2.6c? It's just a name, get over it!
December 22, 2003 10:12:03 PM

Seems strange that you can't OC your barton. <i>Everyone</i> I know who has them(not that many people) can OC theirs. Forums like this futher confirm that impression.

<font color=blue> Look steadfastly into the slit, pinpointed malignant eyes of reality as an old-hand trainer dominates his wild beasts.</font color=blue>
December 22, 2003 11:18:47 PM

Why can't you overclock? Mine runs at 2.2 GHz (3200+) very easily.

CPU clockrate is sort of like the horsepower/torque going on with engines. Take a motorcycle vs a tractor for example. You can get racing bikes these days that have over 100 HP, and a typical medium-heavy tractor might have a 50 HP diesel engine in it. So the bike is more powerful. It's also definitely faster, but if you have a 5000 lb load to pull up a hill guess which one will be able to get all the way up and guess which one will stall out?

Some day I'll be rich and famous for inventing a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.
December 23, 2003 12:02:24 PM

I know this is not an overclocking forum but I believe I cannot overclock because I have one of the original Asus A7N8X Deluxe (I believe the 1.0 PCB, right). I have read through countless forums and my settings match everyone elses out there.

Everytime I overclock to 3200 everything runs rock solid but things like 3DMark2003, Aquamark, and games, will freeze or crash my system. I check the temps and they never go over 45C.

Unless someone has a magic bullet, I will move the overclocking question to the other forum.
December 23, 2003 12:12:40 PM

Well, first occuring thought would be don't overclock so far, take it in small jumps on the fsb until you don't run stable then back it off. Not all bartons will hit 3200+ speeds (although alot will) and not all motherboards (even later revisions of the a7n8x) can hit a high oc number either.

This is however, probally the best place on this forum for an oc question. The other forums are pretty dead except other and it's full of crazy drivel that bears no semblance to any conversation about 'puters.

<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/html/shadus.html" target="_new">Shadus</A>
December 23, 2003 12:48:09 PM

I have A7N8X Deluxe rev 1.04 and I can overclock just fine. I don't think that that's your problem. What memory do you have? Is it DDR33 or DDR400? Also when you said "I overclocked to 3200" what do you mean? Did you raise the FSB to 200? Did you change the multiplier? Both? Did you change the vcore voltage at all? More details would deffinetely get you better answers.

Also a small note. It's impossible that your Barton 2500+ can not be overclocked so don't worry. In case for some reason you can't take it to 3200+ you will deffinetely manage to hit 3000+ which should give you the same performance as a Pentium 4 2.6c. Simply answer the questions above and you can avoid upgrading for now since your CPU is more than sufficient for most tasks nowadays.
December 23, 2003 1:12:54 PM

The memory I have is Corsair CMX512-3200C2.

In terms of oc'ing, it has been sometime so forgive not having exact numbers. I did raise the FSB to 200, changed the multiplier (forget the settings), and played with the voltage.

It would be cool to get it running at a stable 3000+.
December 23, 2003 1:19:12 PM

I would be very suprised if you can't get at least 190Mhz FSB. IIRC the issue is that earlier nforce2 boards can't <i>quite</i> hit the magic '200' figure (e.g. my Epox 8RDA+ [early rev.] can only get 196).. Don't forget if you're running Dual Channel that the 2 RAM sticks must be extremely closely matched. You need PC3200 Matched sticks. Are you sure you're definitely locking the AGP bus to 66Mhz?

But like the others say, increase only a little at a time when you're Ocing. Although you could probably go straight up to 180FSB easily with no problems.

---
<font color=red>The preceding text is assembled from information stored in an unreliable organic storage medium. As such it may be innacurate, incomplete, or completely wrong</font color=red> :wink:
December 23, 2003 1:25:55 PM

I do have matched sticks (bought 2 of the same if that is what you mean).

I haven't touched the AGP bus but it sounds like I should set that at 66Mhz, right?

I will try again starting at 180FSB.

What about the multipliers and vCore settings?
December 23, 2003 1:27:49 PM

Quote:
How can Intel call it a 2.66 when it does so poorly against the 2.6c? It's just a name, get over it!

Actually, in Intel's case - and much to their advantage - this is not a name, it is really a clock rate, a physical characteristic of the processor. And mentioning clock rate and FSB together "honestly" turns out to be better than just "making up" a rating like AMD does - even if they do it as good as they possibly can and are trying to make up for having high IPC and low clock. So the average consumer might get suspicious of AMD, but not of Intel - they didn't make any numbers up...

Not that that's the way it should be or anything. :smile: But it's a problem for AMD.

:evil:  <font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
December 23, 2003 1:48:54 PM

Quote:
I haven't touched the AGP bus but it sounds like I should set that at 66Mhz, right


I'm not sure about the A7N8X Dlx, but on my Epox 8RDA+ I <i>did</i> have to manually set it to 66Mhz. Leaving it on auto might end up running your AGP @ ~80Mhz (@ 200FSB), which would definitely be a problem, as that's well out of spec.

Decrease the multiplier a bit (10x? 9x?) if your Barton isn't locked (unless you bought it very recently it should be unlocked), so that if you hit a problem you know it's less likely to be the CPU itself, possibly RAM or something else.

Like I said, pop the FSB straight up to 180 and see if it's ok. run some stress testing stuff (I generally use Sisoft Sandra burn-in & run 3dMark looping simultaneously) for a good 20 minutes (the longer the better). If it's not crashed after a while, increase the FSB by a bit (5Mhz?) And test again. repeat.

When you hit a problem, try <i>slightly</i> increasing your CPU Vcore. Don't increase your Vcore over about 1.8-1.85V though - that should be more than enough for a decent overclock (my XP1700+ is running @ 2.25Ghz (196x11.5) on 1.575V, so you really shouldn't need much voltage, but it depends on the chip)

When you eventually find a limit you can't quite tweak around, then start fiddling with the multiplier (increase by .5, test, etc.)

Then it's really a case of just fiddling about to find the best settings. remember that better performance is obtained with a high FSB and lower multiplier (e.g. a 2000Mhz attained with 10x200FSB will be faster than the same speed attained with 12x166FSB). But that said, a slightly lower FSB may allow a slightly higher multiplier which might have slightly better performance (e.g. 192x12=2304Mhz might perform very slightly better overall than 196x11.5=2254Mhz) So it's just a case of experimenting.

---
<font color=red>The preceding text is assembled from information stored in an unreliable organic storage medium. As such it may be innacurate, incomplete, or completely wrong</font color=red> :wink:
December 23, 2003 1:59:53 PM

What is your Motherboard revision?

I think 1.04+ board can run at 200MHz with not TOO agressive memory timing. Try to bench your system with high memory timing, like 3-4-4-7. And see if your system can handle it.

If your processor is running great at high clock speed, great! You found that your MB can't handle low latency memory timing.

Usually, it's better to keep default memory timing and play with the multiplier to find the upper limit of your CPU.

For exemple : Let's say your CPU can handle 2.25 GHz at 166MHz FSB.

Then play with your FSB speed at low CPU SPEED..
Exemple : 190 MHz FSB at 1900 MHz (10 X 190)

From here you have 2 number :
MAX FSB : 190 MHz
MAX CPU SPEED : 2.25 GHz

Possible best match :
190 x 11.5 = 2185 MHz (for MAX FSB)
187 x 12 = 2244 MHz (for MAX CPU SPEED)

Sometime these setting will not work, so you just lower FSB or multiplier a little to get a stable system.
185 x 11.5 = 2128 MHz would be a "safe" bet.

--
Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheRod on 12/23/03 11:00 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
December 23, 2003 2:42:51 PM

Awesome - thanks for all your help, tips, and fast responses. I will play with the BIOS over the holiday weekend to see if I can get my 2500 stable at 3000. Glad to hear that it is not a motherboard revision issue.

Have a great holiday!
December 23, 2003 2:47:51 PM

No problem!
Tell us how far you will go!

--
Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?
December 23, 2003 3:06:57 PM

Excuse me russmon but you said in your first post you had a AMD 2500+ CPU right.

You also said you had an original A7N8X Deluxe main motherboard right.

The manual for the A7N8X Deluxe calls for a minimum CPU value of...

Socket A for AMD Duron/Athlon/ XP 3000+ or higher.
400*/333 MHz FSB Support (*PCB 2.0 or later versions)

You are saying that you have a version of PCB at ver 1.0.

That board should overclock your 2500+ but from what I have been reading about the Barton 2500+ at quality sites is that most of those CPU's in North America are locked.

I have a XP 2500+ in my computer desk drawer right next to my XP 2800+ both of them are locked and cannot be overclocked. CANADA

They were authentic Boxed versions not OEM. Since I went to the ver 2.0 A7N8X Deluxe I had to take the 2800+ out and install a XP 3200+ simply to be able to boot the system.


Barton 3200+ 400MHz
A7N8X Deluxe
Liquid
2x512 KinstonHyperX PC3200
GeForce FX5900
Maxtor DiamondMaxPlus9@80Gig
SONY CD 52x
SONY RW 52x/24x/52x
SONY DVD 16x/40x
December 23, 2003 3:15:57 PM

I did buy a 2500 boxed and do have the PCB 1.0. I bought the CPU Sept 2003.

When a CPU is locked, how can you tell? It seem I can overclock it and it runs fine. As mentioned, just the DX9 stuff seem to crash on me (benchies/games). Everything else runs smooth as silk.
December 23, 2003 3:39:09 PM

Warning: Sodnighthawk is a clueless idiot who enjoys screwing up legitimate posters with questions. Please take anything he says with a grain of salt and also with at least a few collaborating opinions as anything he says or suggests may result in devestation to your pc. You have been warned.

Edit: and in this case as with many others he's deomonstrating his total lack of knowledge about computers. Ignore him.

<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/html/shadus.html" target="_new">Shadus</A>
December 23, 2003 3:57:17 PM

Sh1t man! I wish english was my native language so I could tell you right now everything that comes into my head for you! If you don't know, DON'T reply, it's that simple!

1. The A7N8X Deluxe whatever version it is can take anything from an Athlon XP 1700+ to an Athlon XP 3200+.
2. What's an "<b>original</b> A7N8X Deluxe" is supposed to mean?
3. A CPU that is locked CAN, and I repeat CAN be overclocked on an nForce2 board with PC3200 or faster memory.

Quote:
Since I went to the ver 2.0 A7N8X Deluxe I had to take the 2800+ out and install a XP 3200+ simply to be able to boot the system.

You are stupid! Period! Either that or you are 10 years old. Oh btw, make all the threads you wish about "pitsi is a stupid fool", ask me if I care!
December 23, 2003 4:02:08 PM

Listen pitsi you [-peep-] for brains I typed the requirements right out of the motherboard manual dumb ass.

It can only take a 3000+ or higher on the 2.0 version.

And the board wont start with my 2800+ but it will on a 3000+ or the one I purchased the 3200+

Barton 3200+ 400MHz
A7N8X Deluxe
Liquid
2x512 KinstonHyperX PC3200
GeForce FX5900
Maxtor DiamondMaxPlus9@80Gig
SONY CD 52x
SONY RW 52x/24x/52x
SONY DVD 16x/40x
December 23, 2003 4:06:44 PM

russmon, just a little but extremely important advice. Since you are interested to learn about computers you will be visiting forums like this probably a lot. The advice is, <font color=red><b>ignore everything Sodnighthawk posts</b></font color=red>. In fact, I am surprised nobody mentioned this by now, it should had been the first advice given to you! Anyway, ignore what this guy said and continue with every other advice you got. Btw, have you updated your BIOS? This is extremely important, because Asus added 200MHz FSB support to earlier A7N8X Deluxe board only after BIOS ver. 1005 (or something, it doesn't matter, simply update it to the latest version now available).

Also, if you like you can try directly setting the FSB to 166MHz and multiplier to 13. This way after you restart you will get a 3000+. Try testing this sytem for stability and if there is any problem, try increasing the vcore voltage a little. Do the same until your system is stable but try to not exceed vcore 1.75v. These may not be the optimal settings for overclocking a 2500+ but it's something simple you can do and see how your CPU will "respond".

Let us know how it all goes.
December 23, 2003 4:08:39 PM

How old are you?
December 23, 2003 4:21:06 PM

*Sigh*

Here we go again...

Quote:
I have a XP 2500+ in my computer desk drawer right next to my XP 2800+ both of them are locked and cannot be overclocked. CANADA


Yes, the MULTIPLIER is locked, which means you can't adjust it to overclock... but you can still increase the FSB to overclock... just like the Pentium 4. Being in Canada has nothing to do with it, idiot.

Quote:
They were authentic Boxed versions not OEM. Since I went to the ver 2.0 A7N8X Deluxe I had to take the 2800+ out and install a XP 3200+ simply to be able to boot the system.


Gee... don't let a thing like the actual specs printed by Asus get in the way of your ideas, SoD:

Quote:
CPU
Socket A for AMD Athlon XP/Athlon / Duron
Thoroughbred/ Barton Core Support

FSB
400/333/266/200 MHz


Making a motherboard that only supports 2 CPUs would be pretty stupid, don't you think?

Quote:
They were authentic Boxed versions not OEM. Since I went to the ver 2.0 A7N8X Deluxe I had to take the 2800+ out and install a XP 3200+ simply to be able to boot the system.


Yes, because you're an idiot that doesn't know what he's doing. That board should work with ANY Athlon XP CPU. Hell, from the look of those specs... it'll even run a THUNDERBIRD core Athlon (200MHz FSB), but that is probably unlikely. About as unlikely as the board supporting only XP 3000+ and 3200+ CPUs.

You have been proven wrong repeatedly, SoD. Give up. Either educate yourself before posting here or don't bother posting at all. It's a shame ANYONE listens to you when it comes to computer advice.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
December 23, 2003 8:12:28 PM

Just like I said both CPU's are locked, and If you cant boot the system on a 2800+ to even get into the BIOS then you cant overclock it to 3000+ or higher to get it to function in a A7N8X Deluxe motherboard ver 2.0

So I go back to my original statements in the prior post they still stand as fact.

Barton 3200+ 400MHz
A7N8X Deluxe
Liquid
2x512 KinstonHyperX PC3200
GeForce FX5900
Maxtor DiamondMaxPlus9@80Gig
SONY CD 52x
SONY RW 52x/24x/52x
SONY DVD 16x/40x
December 23, 2003 8:27:28 PM

Grrrrrrrrr!!!!

*SMACK*




(And no, that wasn't a kiss, in case you were wondering)

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
December 24, 2003 2:20:35 PM

Seems that 185 x 11.5 (2600+) is stable without messing around with any other settings like memory or vcore. Temp at idle is around 45. Seems it may be the memory causing the problems with not getting any better (although it is Corsair 3200).

Anyways, now refresh my memory, where do I go from here to get closer to 3000+ (what do I start tweaking)
!