DISAPOINTMENT - End-of-Year CPU Buyer's Guide

TheRod · Dec 23, 2003

<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20031223/index.html" target="_new">http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20031223/index.html</A>

I expected more from Tom's in this article. I'm really disapointed. AnandTech released a lot of valuable info in the latest days about CPU's.

They tested the new Athlon 64 3000+ :
<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1937" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1937</A>
Tom's merely mention it's existence in his article.

They released a great article on budget CPUs :
<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1927" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1927</A>
With good information for people that don't have a lot of money.

I'm not in an Intel or Tom's basher... Intel makes great CPU and Tom's used to be MY PC hardware reference. AM I the only one who feels like that? I used to read a lot of Tom's reviews, but now they are sometime "outdated" or not as accurate as it used to be here. Well, I wish to read more GOOD reviews from Tom's team. But these days Anand and other review site gets my vote!

MY PERSONAL CONCLUSION ON THE BEST CPUS TO BUY RIGHT NOW :

Budget : AMD Athlon 2500+ (Barton)
Mid/high performance : Athlon 64 3000+ or P4 2.6GHz

I would personally buy the Athlon 64 platform for upgradability and AMD64 ready CPU. I know there is not a lot of 64 bit software right now, but this CPU have a good chance to get a performance boost with 64 bit software release. And I would not need to upgrade my hardware to go from 32 to 64 bits computing. But the P4 2.6GHz is still a good choice for it's overclockability potential.

By the way Merry Christmas to everyone!

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Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?Edited by TheRod on 12/23/03 11:54 AM.

shadus · Dec 23, 2003

You *CAN* get both EE's and FX's now. They're pricey to be sure, but they are there and buyable easily off a few dozen different sites (and in stock). Hell even newegg carries them now. So what's the problem with including them? Does anyone but the regulars even bother attempting to find something before spouting off unfounded bullshit?

Edit: It's no wonder pitsi flipped out on the noob.

<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/html/shadus.html" target="_new">Shadus</A>

TheRod · Dec 23, 2003

Oups! I corrected my post!
Thanks!

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Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?Edited by TheRod on 12/23/03 11:55 AM.

Ed_Phoon · Dec 23, 2003

I agree with you for the Barton 2500+, it's best in performance/price ratio.

But for buying Athlon 64 or socket 754 system, this is not a good choice. Read <A HREF="http://www.overclockers.com/articles902/" target="_new"> this </A>

TheRod · Dec 23, 2003

I agree in part with you. AMD will release solid performer for this SOCKET before they will kill the 754 socket.

Platform always "evolve" and usually you can't only do a CPU upgrade. Most people must upgrade CPU/RAM/MB at once to really get something better.

So, if I buy a 64 3000+ today, I expect AMD to make 3600+ at least for this platform. But, by the time this platform will not be fast enough CPU will probably run at 4 GHz and more. And I don't think any platform that are available today will be able to handle this increased CPU speed. And probably the memory will not be DDR anymore...

And do you think that buying a P4 platform today is a smarterd choice? The P4 platform will evolve too.

Current AMD 64/64-FX/Opteron have the advantage of the AMD64 instruction set. This might give a boost to the platform when software will be widely available (Windows).

Even if the socket 754 is not the "best" AMD64 platform you will still be able to get 2 "boost". The first one will be with the top of the line Socket 754 CPU (probably at least 3600+) and a second boost when mainstream OS/apps/games (Windows XP) will come in 64 bits flavor.

If you buy Athlon XP or P4 today, you do not get this capability. they are not bad platform at all, but they are not 64bit. So when 64bit will become widely available, these platform will be obsolete.

This is my point!

--
Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?

TheRod · Dec 23, 2003

Maybe we will start to see this:
"We sell unlocked Barton 2500+!"
"We have unlocked Barton's!"
"3200+ for the price of 2500+"

I still have my "old" 1800+, I wish I will be able to buy an unlocked 2500/2800+ in a few months!

--
Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?

compn00b · Dec 23, 2003

Aye, what should I do? I'm really considering that AMD64 3000+, and now looking at that article Ed_Phoon posted, it really scares me. What would you do if you were someone who really wants to game on a PC, but is running an HP 466Mhz Celeron with integrated video?

Mephistopheles · Dec 23, 2003

Uuuhhh, I was just mentioning on another post that my P3 933Mhz with a Ti4200 is OK for all my desires (until Doom 3 comes along) and that I could wait a little longer, but if you have a 466Mhz Celeron with integrated video, well, then, that's bad..... So while I will wait, I'm not sure what I'd do if I were in your place...

But, hey, I think I'd go for it and buy the A64 3000+. It is fit for most purposes, won't be obsolete for at least another 24 months, and upgradability is a mostly overestimated thing anyway... I've yet to upgrade my mobo. I always buy a completely new comp by the time my mobo gets old... I think that's smarter, and keeps your system more well balanced at any given time.

:evil:

Mephistopheles

compn00b · Dec 23, 2003

Yeah, I guess I will get a A64 3000+ system. Will they still be making AGP 8x cards 1-2 years from now? Cuz I was thinking of getting a 9600 pro, but if AGP is gunna be extinct and no upgradability options, might as well get a 9800 pro.

ytoledano · Dec 23, 2003

Has everyone gone crazy? Has the history of computers told you nothing? Tom's got to the sane conclusion that 64bit extentions are useless today since no OS program or game, oriented at the home user will be around in the nest 2 years! Considering that, the Athlon64 and FX suddenly don't seem that great (though probably worth more than the thousand bucks P4 EE).

I know what everyone's been wondering - 2^33634943-1 IS NOT PRIME. Now, wasn't that worth running <A HREF="http://www.mersenne.org" target="_new">Prime95</A> for a month to know?

Mephistopheles · Dec 23, 2003

Has everyone gone crazy? Has the history of computers told you nothing? Tom's got to the sane conclusion that 64bit extentions are useless today since no OS program or game, oriented at the home user will be around in the nest 2 years! Considering that, the Athlon64 and FX suddenly don't seem that great (though probably worth more than the thousand bucks P4 EE).

Hey, I was thinking the same thing!

I think people need to take it easy... I wasn't disappointed by the End-of-Year CPU Buyer's Guide at all! The P4EE makes a good showing and, though not quite beating FX-51, proves that it seems to hold Intel's very-high-performance position respectably while prescott doesn't come along with a new chipset/platform. FX and A64 shine a lot too... what's not to like? They even compared the actual price/performance NUMBERS (meaning they divided the price by the benchmark result... not bad).... Interesting...... And it all ends by concluding the obvious: Either 2500/2600+ or 2.6C can be called the best bang for the buck right now....

:evil:

Mephistopheles

compn00b · Dec 24, 2003

Yes, I am going crazy. I wasn't until I read all these raving posts about the new A64 3000+, and then that article that some guy posted on this topic. I guess I'll just get an A64 3000+ and shut up. I wish they included this in the review, and done the price/performance thingy. But after reading many reviews, seems clear that it does have a high performance for a decent price.

Spitfire_x86 · Dec 24, 2003

I'm not in an Intel or Tom's basher... Intel makes great CPU and Tom's used to be MY PC hardware reference. AM I the only one who feels like that? I used to read a lot of Tom's reviews, but now they are sometime "outdated" or not as accurate as it used to be here. Well, I wish to read more GOOD reviews from Tom's team. But these days Anand and other review site gets my vote!

You know one thing? THG is not THG anymore. It's actually OHG (Omid's Hardware Guide) with THG shell. Real THG was updated, almost flawless and DID review budget cpus. Within 2 year Omid reign, THG changed a lot. OHG is more like a marketing website, which focuses on number of articles rather than quality. (THG Game reviews are perfect example of this. I bet, no THGC member care about game reviews posted there).

I don't think they take bribe from Intel, but things have definately changed.

*** There was a special HT supplemental at THG. NO OTHER hardware websites had such thing. What's wrong with it? What's the difference between huge banner ad and "special supplemental" section on top? It made the website look like $old out to Intel. THG shouldn't have done it just for a bag of money.

*** Athlon64 review- No other hardware website except THG said P4 EE is overall better than A64 FX.

*** Celeron review- They stopped reviewing Celerons after 2.0 GHz Celeron. THG was used to review every Celeron just like Pentiums in early days. Why they no longer review Celerons since 2.0 GHz NW Celeron? Because it makes Intel look horrible?

*** Graphics card buyers' guide- They ended with recommending GeForce FX5600 (non-Ultra). No comments required for this recommendation.

I can also point out MANY flawed reviews and stupid comments from last year THG articles. It would be a huge list.

Also compare Tom's Blurbs with Omid's editorials. You'll see a huge difference. Omid's editorials are nothing but useless financial fantasy stories about AMD and Intel.

Sure, THG is a commercial organization and THG have to look after business sides.. But when journalism becomes more like a business, then it loses it's credibility. I don't think Omid understands it.

I no longer read THG as only hardware refenence. Anandtech now gets considerable attention and also occasionally look at other websites.

<A HREF="http://www.omidshardware.tk" target="_new">Click here for Omid's Hardware Guide</A>

The solution-

*** FIRE OMID and find someone suitable as THG editor (if Tom doesn't want to be THG editor again)

*** Important reviews = Higher priority (It's a shame, THG failed to publish Athlon64 3000+ review before other major hardware websites like Anandtech)

*** Focus on the quality of articles rather than number.

*** GET RID OF THE STUPID GAME REVIEWS

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Ed_Phoon · Dec 24, 2003

The propose I show that article is just for reference, and you shouldn't make your buying decision by just depends on that article.

Just as one's buying decision should not depands on benchmark result solely.

Example:
Athlon 64 with KT800 motherboard using AC97 sound may end up slower than Barton 3200+ with Nforce SPP + MCP-T (Soundstrom)in certain games.
Because we always play games with sound on, while most gaming benchmark running with sound off.

It's always good to know more before make up your mind.

Edited by Ed_Phoon on 12/24/03 08:30 AM.

TheRod · Dec 24, 2003

It is why I am disapointed. THG is the only place that not talk about this new CPU in their HOLIDAY review!

I wish they will correct this soon!

--
Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?

TTZX · Dec 24, 2003

WOW, people getting their panties in a bunch because the article showed the real power of the P4EE. I think you guys are more biased than you claim THG of being. Well, after all what can you expect from a AMD fanboy forum.

darko21 · Dec 25, 2003

Spitfire, Once again I agree with you on this topic..

Omid is an idiot for treating enthusists like idiots with his writting style.

Omid writes his editorials giving favor to intel in the hopes of gaining favor with the big advertisors like Intel.

The celrons are big sellers and should have been included but would have made Intel look bad. the athlon 64 3000 which has definatly sold more than the p4ee, should have been included as well.

More and more enthusiast will leave THG for sites like anandtech if Omid cannot find a better way of providing unbiased journalism.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.

Spitfire_x86 · Dec 25, 2003

Just PM'ed Omid. I told him to show himself in this thread

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TTZX · Dec 25, 2003

Ohh NO, the amd fanboys are angry, this could get really funny. :lol:

Vapor · Dec 25, 2003

THG Game reviews are perfect example of this. I bet, no THGC member care about game reviews posted there

I hate the game reviews, especially since they are mostly for Xbox.

Damn Rambus.

darko21 · Dec 25, 2003

Re: Ohh NO, the amd fanboys are angry, this could get really funny.

Why do you always be-little everything by bringing up fanboys? Try comming up with something intelligent to contribute.

We are talking about enthusiasts who understand the industry here. Personally I'd dislike Omid if his writing style always favored AMD. Biased journalism makes for a crappy journalist. We are not talking about an isolated incident here Omids articles are consistantly biased in favor of Intel seems Nvidia too.

If you are a computer enthusiast who knows the industry you can't help but notice Omid is biased.

TTZX I say you are an Intel fanboy.. and most posters in this thread are knowledgeable enthusiasts, who have a right to question Omids journalism and or hidden agenda. They should be able to disscuss this as adults without having to read any fanboy acusations especialy coming from an obvious intel fanboy like yourself.

THGF's will always have plenty of Intel and AMD fanboys but that's not what we are discussing in this thread.

BTW Merry Christmas

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.

Spitfire_x86 · Dec 25, 2003

Ohh NO, the amd fanboys are angry, this could get really funny

THG fans are angry. There's no AMD/Intel thing here. You can smell AMD fanboy because you are an Intel fanboy

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Spitfire_x86 · Dec 25, 2003

Good idea! If he comes, it will mean he has at least one good quality as THG editor

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Snaggle · Dec 25, 2003

Tom was very popular,so everyone will hate his replacement.THG was the first to review the fx51 matched against the p4ee.I would say this site still has a slight edge over anandtech.I agree that there's an intell bias;but it's not overpowering and seems no more than the average bias for reasonable intel or amd enthusiasts.

TheRod · Dec 25, 2003

No... Have you read my original post. I don't think Intel is crap. P4EE is a really powerful CPU.

It's just that I don't understand why we don't see any evidence of the A64 3000+ in this article, most other Hardware reviews site talked about this CPU.

My point is more like : We should have read P4EE is the MOST powerful CPU right now. But is sell price is not justified when you compare it to the A64 3000+.

Of course, there willl always be PRO-Intel and PRO-AMD everywhere. But honestly, I had to build a couple of system in the last year for freinds/family and it always ended with an AMD based system. Not because Intel is not good, it's just because the price/performance of AMD based system were better.

When someone come to you with a predefined limited budget, I can't honestly recommmend a Celeron with SDRAM, because I know it's crap... And when the budget is bigger and people don't want to mess with overclocking the difference between Intel/AMD is less important, but usually I ended up saving a little on CPU/MB the get more decent GPU or a bigger HDD.

Of course, if someone come to me and say "I have no budget limit!", I would probably build him a P4 based system with loads of high-end components. But would it be honest to let him spend all this money for a few more FPS in games that already run at more than 60/80 FPS.

I'm not a PRO-AMD, I'm just the average tech guy that want the most for is money. These day I look like an AMD fanboy because AMD have the edge on price/performance. And for me PRICE is more important than performance.

But overall, I'm really disapointed of THG reviews these days... In past, most new products were first tested here, at THG. But now, I often have to wait days, if it's not weeks to see some components reviews here.

NOTE : Please THG, let GameSpot/GameSpy do the GAMES reviews.

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Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?

DISAPOINTMENT - End-of-Year CPU Buyer's Guide

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