Tech: 1961 United Gypsy shuffle bowl: The #7 pin is "sticky"

[Brian]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Gang,

I am a newbie - please be gentle (smile)

Here is my current repair problem. For pictures and the full story see
http://www.christmaswhistler.com/myProjects/shuffleBowl.html

If I press (and hold for at least 1/2 second) the switches one at a
time in the order shown, the following happens:

o A: drops the 1-2-8
o G: drops the 5-7-9
o MN (simo): drops the 3-4-6-10 (strike!)

But if the puck travels at a normal game speed over the playfield
switches, then the strike lane leaves the 7-pin standing.

The other way to describe the problem is that if I press and release
any of the switches that should lift the 7-pin quickly (say 1/4
second)... I hear the 7-pin solenoid energize (that "zzzit" noise) for
that 1/4 second... but not long enough to pull the plate back that is
keeping the 7-pin locked down. If I press and release any of the
switches that should lift the 7-pin for about 1/2 second or more... I
hear the 7-pin solenoid energize (that "zzzit" noise) long enough
(apparently) to pull the plate which releases the 7-pin to pull up.

Now, I immediately suspected the strength of the solenoid that drives
the action to physically pull the 7-pin up and out of the way. I have
tried the following (with no obvious improvements):

o Moved the fuse to the "low voltage" setting. In theory this should
have increased the volts that drive the 7-pin solenoid and, therefore,
increased the pulling power. It had no obvious improvement.
o Removed one of the two springs that will lift the 7-pin. My hope
was to reduce the friction on the steel plate that needs to be pulled
to the solenoid to release the 7-pin. This helps a little bit... but
not enough to make it work at game speeds.
o I also swapped the 8-pin solenoid and assembly with the 7-pin. This
also had no obvious improvement.
o I measured the voltage used to energize the 7-pin solenoid. About
50V. I get the same reading across the 8-pin solenoid too.
o I cleaned all the switches: 1) The Q, R and S on the playfield. 2)
The 7-Pin relay on the back door. 3) The switches associated with the
7-pin solenoid that are directly above the 7-pin. No obvious
improvement.

Advice? Please e-mail me at christmaswhistler@yahoo.com.

Thanks in advance,
Brian
Rochester, MN

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On 2005-08-04 20:01:48 -0700, "Brian"
<christmaswhistler(at)yahoo(dot)com> said:

> Gang,
>
> I am a newbie - please be gentle (smile)
>
> Here is my current repair problem. For pictures and the full story see
> http://www.christmaswhistler.com/myProjects/shuffleBowl.html
>
> If I press (and hold for at least 1/2 second) the switches one at a
> time in the order shown, the following happens:
>
> o A: drops the 1-2-8
> o G: drops the 5-7-9
> o MN (simo): drops the 3-4-6-10 (strike!)
>
> But if the puck travels at a normal game speed over the playfield
> switches, then the strike lane leaves the 7-pin standing.
>
> The other way to describe the problem is that if I press and release
> any of the switches that should lift the 7-pin quickly (say 1/4
> second)... I hear the 7-pin solenoid energize (that "zzzit" noise) for
> that 1/4 second... but not long enough to pull the plate back that is
> keeping the 7-pin locked down. If I press and release any of the
> switches that should lift the 7-pin for about 1/2 second or more... I
> hear the 7-pin solenoid energize (that "zzzit" noise) long enough
> (apparently) to pull the plate which releases the 7-pin to pull up.
>
> Now, I immediately suspected the strength of the solenoid that drives
> the action to physically pull the 7-pin up and out of the way. I have
> tried the following (with no obvious improvements):
>
> o Moved the fuse to the "low voltage" setting. In theory this should
> have increased the volts that drive the 7-pin solenoid and, therefore,
> increased the pulling power. It had no obvious improvement.
> o Removed one of the two springs that will lift the 7-pin. My hope
> was to reduce the friction on the steel plate that needs to be pulled
> to the solenoid to release the 7-pin. This helps a little bit... but
> not enough to make it work at game speeds.
> o I also swapped the 8-pin solenoid and assembly with the 7-pin. This
> also had no obvious improvement.
> o I measured the voltage used to energize the 7-pin solenoid. About
> 50V. I get the same reading across the 8-pin solenoid too.
> o I cleaned all the switches: 1) The Q, R and S on the playfield. 2)
> The 7-Pin relay on the back door. 3) The switches associated with the
> 7-pin solenoid that are directly above the 7-pin. No obvious
> improvement.
>
> Advice? Please e-mail me at christmaswhistler(at)yahoo(dot)com.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Brian
> Rochester, MN

Hi Brian,

Actually I'll post the reply here...

First, do not add tape to the actuator lever as shown in your pictures.
You first need to see if the arm moves correctly - it should transcribe
an arc to open/close the contacts. If your acutator is moving correctly
then, normally, you would adjust by bending the blade switches so they
trip correctly. Your blade switch look correct though - they are
straight out of the switch stack and do not look deformed.

Hence I suspect something else is wrong - especially as you mention
that most, if not all, are in the same condition. I would look for a
mechanical problem here. Perhaps the support for the levers has
separated from the support for the switches and has drifted apart
enough to account for the incorrect response from the switches to the
arms moving.

I do have schematics for a number of United (and other brand) Shuffle
Bowlers and we might have your exact one in stock. I should also have
an operators manual that covers these adjustments for at least one
simialr game.

Email us at parts(at)flippers(dot)com to ask about the schematics and manual...

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquires to the newsgroup) John's
Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they
just flip out."

 

[Brian]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Gang,

I think I have discovered the problem. The force needed by the 7-pin
coil to pull back the steel plate that holds onto the pin is greater by
about 30% than the 8-pin. Odd, but true. I can see no difference in
the mechanisms - but could measure it with a simple "rubber band test".

As a temporary solution to the problem I removed the backmost of three
springs that control the movement of the plastic pin. Two identical
springs cause the pin to jump up when "hit" by the puck. The third
stops the plastic pin from swinging too much when all the pins are
reset. This third spring also placed additional pressure on the arm
that locks against the steel plate - causing extra friction.

My shuffle bowing game plays much better now! I still have some timing
and switch issues... but the 7-pin is flying at game speeds!

Regards,

Brian
Rochester, MN

 

[rmertz]

I have a 1952 United Shuffle Bowler (Super Shuffle Bowl). The 1 and 2 shot relay is not working. Any suggestions?