HardWareBoss
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Doom3 I would probably lean towards Intel since Carmack has always done optimizations for Intel in all his engines.
Half-Life 2 is completely up in the air I would presume both, but since I don’t know what Gabe is like or his coding preferences well have to wait and see.
-taitertot
If this post has attitude, seems to be overly aggressive, rude, distasteful to 99% of the users here, and shows a zealous defense of Intel... It’s probably Spud.
Half-Life 2 is completely up in the air I would presume both, but since I don’t know what Gabe is like or his coding preferences well have to wait and see.
-taitertot
If this post has attitude, seems to be overly aggressive, rude, distasteful to 99% of the users here, and shows a zealous defense of Intel... It’s probably Spud.
neveroldmilk
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A64 seems to be better in the game according to the test operated by TOMSHARDWARE.
Truth is somewhere out there!
--Movie 'X Files'
Truth is somewhere out there!
--Movie 'X Files'
- Jan 6, 2004
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thx for the replies. :lol: I think Doom3 is optimized for Intel and Gabe newell is optimized for aMD 64. Since Doom3 is due to be released april fools day, i'm gonna buy that when it comes out. 
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<b><font color=red>Aquamark3 score: 28,208</b></font color=red>
<font color=blue><b>512mbDDR - Intel P4 2.4ghz 533fsb - ATI Radeon 9500 pro</b></font color=blue>
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<b><font color=red>Aquamark3 score: 28,208</b></font color=red>
<font color=blue><b>512mbDDR - Intel P4 2.4ghz 533fsb - ATI Radeon 9500 pro</b></font color=blue>
Mephistopheles
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Well, petr, I suppose you're talking about current P4s, right? The problem is that a whole line of P4s - namely Prescotts - will be out on february, the 2nd... And Intel won't just sit idly while AMD gives their current line of P4Cs such a hard time!
And Prescott's performance is still largely unknown. So, let's just wait...
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
Mephistopheles
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Actually, Petr, I just remembered one thing!
A64 3700+ will be out before Doom3's launch!
Prescott will not only be there and at least at 3.4Ghz... Grantsdale and alderwood will be there, too! So you'll see Scotty with PCI-Express-graphics cards and DDR-II 533Mhz by April. And there's no way you can say for sure that A64 will be a hands-down winner without any doubt!...
Waiting is still safer...
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
A64 3700+ will be out before Doom3's launch!
Prescott will not only be there and at least at 3.4Ghz... Grantsdale and alderwood will be there, too! So you'll see Scotty with PCI-Express-graphics cards and DDR-II 533Mhz by April. And there's no way you can say for sure that A64 will be a hands-down winner without any doubt!...
Waiting is still safer...
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistophelesI think both games will offer optimisation for AMD and Intel to some extent. Maybe we wil see a AMD64 patch for both games when Windows for AMD64 will be out, I would not be surprised.
Because id and Valve wants to sell their 3D engine to other game studios, they must builts a "3D engine for the masses". From the preview I have seen I'm far more impressed by the Half-Life engine. I think it is more focused on physics than image quality.
But even if you get the fastest AMD/Intel CPU, the GPU will make the difference too!
--
Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?
Because id and Valve wants to sell their 3D engine to other game studios, they must builts a "3D engine for the masses". From the preview I have seen I'm far more impressed by the Half-Life engine. I think it is more focused on physics than image quality.
But even if you get the fastest AMD/Intel CPU, the GPU will make the difference too!
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Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?
Doom 3 will destroy Half Life 2, Carmack is a programming god he will bury Valves engine just like he did to the Unreal Engine.
Unlike Valve he doesnt need to try and sell his game with a GPU manufacture either. He needs no fillers or best buy options because his games are the best.
-taitertot
If this post has attitude, seems to be overly aggressive, rude, distasteful to 99% of the users here, and shows a zealous defense of Intel... It’s probably Spud.
Unlike Valve he doesnt need to try and sell his game with a GPU manufacture either. He needs no fillers or best buy options because his games are the best.
-taitertot
If this post has attitude, seems to be overly aggressive, rude, distasteful to 99% of the users here, and shows a zealous defense of Intel... It’s probably Spud.
I agree: stop promoting your own PC, petr.
A64 is the better gaming CPU, no doubt...but nobody knows Scotty's performance, especially not on an Alderwood or Grantwood chipset, so I don't think anybody (except Intel execs) is in the position to say which will be better.
Of course, San Diego is also coming out before Doom]|[, so that <b>should</b> keep AMD on top, even after Alderwood and Grantwood. But of course, if I were a gamer, I'd put my money into an R420 or NV40 first.
Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
- Jan 6, 2004
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ill be objective and promote my pc at the same time. 
here is a link that shows DoomIII alpha benchmark, A64 vs P4. P4 wins
<A HREF="http://www.digital-daily.com/cpu/athlon64fx-p4ee/index04.htm" target="_new">http://www.digital-daily.com/cpu/athlon64fx-p4ee/index04.htm</A> Look down near bottom of page to find the benchmark.
i guess everyone was right, Carmack likes P4 better. it looks like Doom3 was designed to take advantage of hyperthreading, not 64-bit. it's very unlikley they will be 64-bit version too, because John Carmack would have to recompile his source code to write it and that's too costly and time consuming.
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<b><font color=red>Aquamark3 score: 28,208</b></font color=red>
<font color=blue><b>Intel P4 2.4ghz 533fsb - 512mbDDR - ATI Radeon 9500 pro</b></font color=blue>
here is a link that shows DoomIII alpha benchmark, A64 vs P4. P4 wins
<A HREF="http://www.digital-daily.com/cpu/athlon64fx-p4ee/index04.htm" target="_new">http://www.digital-daily.com/cpu/athlon64fx-p4ee/index04.htm</A> Look down near bottom of page to find the benchmark.
i guess everyone was right, Carmack likes P4 better. it looks like Doom3 was designed to take advantage of hyperthreading, not 64-bit. it's very unlikley they will be 64-bit version too, because John Carmack would have to recompile his source code to write it and that's too costly and time consuming.
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<b><font color=red>Aquamark3 score: 28,208</b></font color=red>
<font color=blue><b>Intel P4 2.4ghz 533fsb - 512mbDDR - ATI Radeon 9500 pro</b></font color=blue>
Humm... Have you really check the results?
Doom 3 Alpha - Demo002 :
P4EE 3.2GHz = 119.2
FX-51 = 116.7
P4C 3.2GHz = 115.5
A64 3200+ = 111
Doom 3 Alpha - Demo006 :
FX-51 = 104.3
P4EE 3.2GHz = 103.2
P4C 3.2GHz = 99
A64 3200+ = 95.9
Yes in "Demo002" P4EE wins, but in "Demo006" FX-51 wins! So how can you say that Doom 3 will run faster on the Intel system. Another thing, the A64 3000+/3400+ are not in that bench I would have like to see results for these CPU too.
So you are right! Go spend load of money on a P4EE to get 2% more performance on certain condition (Demo002) and -1% performance in other condition (Demo006). I don't say it would be smarter to buy FX-51. But how can you say P4EE beat FX-51 with less than 2% difference in 2 Doom 3 scene... Come on!
Both chip perform equally in Doom 3, if we would have seen at least 5% difference we would have a clear winner... But with these results : +2% and -1% i see 2 winner.
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Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?
Doom 3 Alpha - Demo002 :
P4EE 3.2GHz = 119.2
FX-51 = 116.7
P4C 3.2GHz = 115.5
A64 3200+ = 111
Doom 3 Alpha - Demo006 :
FX-51 = 104.3
P4EE 3.2GHz = 103.2
P4C 3.2GHz = 99
A64 3200+ = 95.9
Yes in "Demo002" P4EE wins, but in "Demo006" FX-51 wins! So how can you say that Doom 3 will run faster on the Intel system. Another thing, the A64 3000+/3400+ are not in that bench I would have like to see results for these CPU too.
So you are right! Go spend load of money on a P4EE to get 2% more performance on certain condition (Demo002) and -1% performance in other condition (Demo006). I don't say it would be smarter to buy FX-51. But how can you say P4EE beat FX-51 with less than 2% difference in 2 Doom 3 scene... Come on!
Both chip perform equally in Doom 3, if we would have seen at least 5% difference we would have a clear winner... But with these results : +2% and -1% i see 2 winner.
--
Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?
I'm sorry but those benchmarks are useless. The engine is Alpha, the game is not ready. When I see the final product that will be a different story.
When will you people learn, benchmarks on alpha or beta software, and Engineering Sample hardware don't show the potentional of the final product. It should be common sense!
When will you people learn, benchmarks on alpha or beta software, and Engineering Sample hardware don't show the potentional of the final product. It should be common sense!
I agree with you... And my last post (with the D3 benchmark result) was there to close the mouth to that guy that say P4EE outperform Athlon FX-51 CPU when it's not true.
As you said, we have to wait shipping version of DOOM 3 and HL2 before assuming CPU or GPU performance in these games.
When both games will be out, I will buy a new GPU based on benchmark results! And NO I will not buy both nVidia and ATI based graphic card, I will have to make a compromise!
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Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?
As you said, we have to wait shipping version of DOOM 3 and HL2 before assuming CPU or GPU performance in these games.
When both games will be out, I will buy a new GPU based on benchmark results! And NO I will not buy both nVidia and ATI based graphic card, I will have to make a compromise!
--
Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?
Mephistopheles
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These are not the P4s that will come into play by the time Doom comes around!
Remember, there'll be 2.8, 3.0, 3.2 and 3.4Ghz, <b>at least</b>, and those will be <b>Prescotts</b>. And, as a matter of fact, <b>we don't know prescott's performance</b>, so we cannot possibly know in advance who is going to be best there... Even in mid-range processors, because the 2.8 and 3.0Ghz will be mid-to-high performance processors in Intel's chain, and will be reasonably priced.
I mean, several reports on the web say that prescott should be around 10% faster per clock when launched. While there are a very few benchmarks around that would seem to indicate that that will not be the case, I tend to dismiss them, mainly because some benchmarks indicated that A64 wasn't going to be that great a processor before launch too.
So think about it: If Intel gets the 3.4Ghz Prescott (equivalent to 3.4+0.34=3.73Ghz Northwood, presumably) and DDR-II and PCI-Express tech by then, it will probably have enough in its hands to fight the rather powerful A64 line with. Anyway, we can't possibly really answer if A64s or P4s will win the performance crown in Doom3, simply because the main contenters aren't in the arena now.
<i><speculation>Personally, I think there is a very high probability that Intel will introduce a 3466Mhz (13x266) Prescott by March, the 29th, just because of Grantsdale and Canterwood. I think that might be the case because of current development status for DDR-II: it is running at 533Mhz OK. This would mean a 1066Mhz FSB, and I don't think that would be too far-fetched. Hopefully, there'll also be a 3200Mhz, 1066Mhz-FSB prescott for a reasonable price... Even if it's not released in march, it is not so far away at all!</speculation></i>
In any case, I'll just wait until mid-year to buy my Doom-3-killing machine... (droooooool....) And I'll try to get the biggest amount of money so I can get the beefiest rig possible... for it to last some time...
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
Remember, there'll be 2.8, 3.0, 3.2 and 3.4Ghz, <b>at least</b>, and those will be <b>Prescotts</b>. And, as a matter of fact, <b>we don't know prescott's performance</b>, so we cannot possibly know in advance who is going to be best there... Even in mid-range processors, because the 2.8 and 3.0Ghz will be mid-to-high performance processors in Intel's chain, and will be reasonably priced.
I mean, several reports on the web say that prescott should be around 10% faster per clock when launched. While there are a very few benchmarks around that would seem to indicate that that will not be the case, I tend to dismiss them, mainly because some benchmarks indicated that A64 wasn't going to be that great a processor before launch too.
So think about it: If Intel gets the 3.4Ghz Prescott (equivalent to 3.4+0.34=3.73Ghz Northwood, presumably) and DDR-II and PCI-Express tech by then, it will probably have enough in its hands to fight the rather powerful A64 line with. Anyway, we can't possibly really answer if A64s or P4s will win the performance crown in Doom3, simply because the main contenters aren't in the arena now.
<i><speculation>Personally, I think there is a very high probability that Intel will introduce a 3466Mhz (13x266) Prescott by March, the 29th, just because of Grantsdale and Canterwood. I think that might be the case because of current development status for DDR-II: it is running at 533Mhz OK. This would mean a 1066Mhz FSB, and I don't think that would be too far-fetched. Hopefully, there'll also be a 3200Mhz, 1066Mhz-FSB prescott for a reasonable price... Even if it's not released in march, it is not so far away at all!</speculation></i>
In any case, I'll just wait until mid-year to buy my Doom-3-killing machine... (droooooool....)
And I'll try to get the biggest amount of money so I can get the beefiest rig possible... for it to last some time... <font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistophelesDDRII has a higher latency, so that wouldn't be a huge plus really. Also, while we don't know the performance of Prescott, pretty much everyone is in agreement that it will be lower than P4EE as Prescott only adds some instructions (quite a few of them for Hyperthreading) and a longer pipeline that will actually make cache misses a bigger problem. That with the increased latency above makes it a very intersting dilemma of performance, but I can pretty easily say that it should be less than P4EE.
Oh, and 3.4 seems about as high as they'll get for a little while, with 3.6 and maybe 3.8 coming much later.
Oh, and 3.4 seems about as high as they'll get for a little while, with 3.6 and maybe 3.8 coming much later.
How exactly is this site Intel biased? I have read this in a couple posts now and I don't understand. Are they fluffing their benchmark results somehow? I don't check a lot of other sites for reviews. And Tom's recommended the A64 for gaming anyways.
BTW Whats the scoop on AMD's San Diego? Where can I find the roadmap for that? I am lazy and don't like to dig through websites.
Yugi - Oh! NOT ON MY CARPET
BTW Whats the scoop on AMD's San Diego? Where can I find the roadmap for that? I am lazy and don't like to dig through websites.
Yugi - Oh! NOT ON MY CARPET
I'd look at the countless threads for that discussion, mainly talking about using a lot of encoding tests and the RAM issue. They shouldn't be more than a few pages back.
Also, probably X-86secret if you want to look at roadmaps if I remember correctly.
Also, probably X-86secret if you want to look at roadmaps if I remember correctly.
Mephistopheles
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Erm, no, San Diego will only be available in the 2nd half of 2004. The only processor that is currently scheduled for launch in the next 5 or 6 months is Newcastle, from AMD, according to <A HREF="http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_608,00.html" target="_new">their own roadmaps.</A> Even so, does anyone know of any changes in architecture from current cores to Newcastle? I don't know anything about that...
A little problem with AMD is this... They keep their roadmaps a mess and very mysterious... Great processors, but what's up with management?...
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistophelesOh wow, I really thought it would be out Mayish...oh well. NVM then...Intel will have great chance of keeping the crown with the new Chipsets for Scotty around that time....yay--people will stop bitching about THG--especially to the forum, because we have nothing to do with it!!
I agree that AMD keeps things a mess on their roadmaps...they need better marketing and PR people. Hopefully A64 will get them some money needed to get a good staff for PR and marketing.
Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
I agree that AMD keeps things a mess on their roadmaps...they need better marketing and PR people. Hopefully A64 will get them some money needed to get a good staff for PR and marketing.
Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
Mephistopheles
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I've been looking for information on Newcastle. From what I've seen, it's actually like this...
Newcastle is supposed to be a <b>castrated</b> A64 for value/mainstream. The high-performance parts will remain unchanged until later in 2004. Plus, it will only be around in the <b>second</b> quarter. So it might not be a really good contender for Doom 3... a few sites say it's just the next AXP-mainstream...
This could all be wrong, of course. But Newcastle won't set any new performance bar as far as I could see it. Information on it is dim at best...
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
Newcastle is supposed to be a <b>castrated</b> A64 for value/mainstream. The high-performance parts will remain unchanged until later in 2004. Plus, it will only be around in the <b>second</b> quarter. So it might not be a really good contender for Doom 3... a few sites say it's just the next AXP-mainstream...
This could all be wrong, of course. But Newcastle won't set any new performance bar as far as I could see it. Information on it is dim at best...
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