Stick a fork in Itanium, its done. Even HP is embracing Opteron, and while certainly it will be restricted it to 1-4 way initially (hence, not competing with its higher end >4 way Itanium enterprise servers), this is going to kill any momentum Itanium may have enjoyed. Can't wait for HP to announce its AMD64 port of HP-UX
<A HREF="http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103_2-5147619.html?tag=zdfd.newsfeed" target="_new">HP to adopt AMD's Opteron in servers</A>
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AMD, step by step, little by little, with Opteron is gaining high-end market, and the more important servers builders, first IMB, later Sun, now HP... this is unstoppable ;-)
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by eugeneMC on 01/27/04 01:16 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
I'm not sure about the "unstopable".. if intel announces a 64 bit capable, glueless SMP Xeon chip tomorrow, Opteron will quickly become just another xeon clone, and OEM's may ditch opteron in favour of "Xeon64" and intel's sweet co-marketing dollars. The only small downside of this strategy for intel would be that it would probably kill Itaniums chances to become anything but a loss generating, high end niche product for good.
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
Looks like Itanium will be buried.
If Opteron will be used in more server from different computer companies then I think Itanium will not be able to gain ground again since <b>PRICE speaks louder than PERFORMANCE</b> in these days.
Looks like Itanium will be buried.
If Opteron will be used in more server from different computer companies then I think Itanium will not be able to gain ground again since <b>PRICE speaks louder than PERFORMANCE</b> in these days.
Hmmm.. there is little inherent to Itanium that makes it has to be (much more) expensive than Opteron; I doubt either chip costs more than $100 to produce (not counting r&d obviously). In fact, Opteron 8xx are priced in the same category as Itaniums. Either way, in the 4+ way market, cpu cost is only a small fraction of total system cost. In 16 way servers, its probably single digit percentages at most.
The real cost of itanium for end customers is not the chip, nor the system; its porting the software.
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
Once opteron has moved the market to 64 bit, Itanium will shine. Either intel will wait, or they will devolop a platform that supports xeon (with 64 bit) and itanium. They may be able to pull off a new platform quickly, but not too quickly.
That allready in progress single chipset for XEON and itanium single socket also mothersboards will able to take Itanium and Xeon.There allready some OEM that sold systeme that support Iatnium and Xeon in the same box
A single 4 way opteron is not likely to destroy anything, but the significance of the fact that HP of all companies, decides AMD64 is a credible solution, can not be overstated. After all, HP dropped its own PA Risc and Alpha architectures in favor of Itanium as their single 64 bit server solution.. and now.. it also adds another 64 bit server platform: Opteron. What message do you think that will send to its customers ? Alpha wasnt good enough, but opteron is ? Sure, they will position initial opteron products in the "lower end" 4 way market (if you can call 4 way server market low end, that is), but that is where the bulk of Itanium sales go, not in those precious few 16-128 way systems. Now, what do you think is going to happen when these opteron boxes sell ? People will port their software to AMD64, and as their requirements and confidence in the platform grow, will start asking compatible higher end solutions. By releasing 4 way opteron servers, HP will actively help in creating a credible AMD64 market, and might well force intel into releasing an opteron clone, instantly killing just about any possibility of Itanium growing out of its current loss generating, high end, low volume niche markets (and even then, mostly only HPC).
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I'll quote the inquirer on this one, "How long before the Dell Domino falls?"
I to think this is pretty significant in showning the naysayers that AMD64 is a realy force to be reckoned with. But Dell....if they're xeon server sales start going to IBM, HP, and SUN operton setups you can bet they will have a ready to go product on the market tomorrow.
who cares ? having the same socket may help lower the burden to IA64 adoption a little bit, like by allowing cheaper chipsets and mainboards, or an upgrade from xeon to itanium, but the main problem has nothing to do with sockets, or even cost of cpu's/chipsets/mainboards but everything with the cost of porting software. Heck, for many companies a $5.000 opteron system might be MUCH more interesting and FAR cheaper than a free Itanium server.
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
The drop in long term strategy.PA8800 dual core was release 2 week ago.EV7A will be release in few month and Open VMS still only support Alpha and itanium soon.
Ibm have give support for only 1 to 4 way same thing for HP.SUN are losing so much money solaris market share are in decline and 8 way are not avaible and i can guess they are not in developement.
"only" 4 way is a gross misrepresentation. 1,2 and 4 way servers constitute the bulk of the market, both in revenue, and by a HUGE margin in unit sales.
Also, currently Opteron realistically only scales to 4 way in single image systems, 8 way if you want to sacrifice inter cpu latency. Cray and other companies are working on chipsets and HT bridges to allow >4 way opterons, and adding cache coherency to the HT link (which is really needed if you want a decent performing >4-8 way system), but today, even if HP/Sun or IBM wanted to bring a 16 way opteron server to market, they just can't -yet.
BTW, how long did it take before you could actually buy a (single image) Itanium with more than 4 cpu's ? At least two years I think...
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>With your logic you can guess why anyone would better like
>itanium
Its always easier to understand something with logic, than without it Anyway, plain simple: not exactly every corporation has x86 legacy code it wants to port to 64 bit. How about any company running its mission critical stuff on HP-UX, what choice do they have but move to IA64 sooner or later ? And most of the HPC market loves Itanium's FP power, and doesnt care much about porting issues, as they (re)compile all the time anyway. Those markets are Itaniums natural habitats, but they do not represent a terribly big percentage of the entire market..
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
Wow its nice that you read the Aceshardware review on how to kill x86. Seems as of late your limitless insight in how the market works and what theses high price point users think is quite remarkable.
-taitertot
If this post has attitude, seems to be overly aggressive, rude, distasteful to 99% of the users here, and shows a zealous defense of Intel... It’s probably Spud.
Yeah I read it, what is your point ? Is there anything in that article that wasnt known already for ages ? Any radical new insights I might have parrotted ? copy pasted ? Or are you implying I am clueless, but read the article, and answered with just the knowledge contained in that article or something.. ? Well.. if that where the case, at least I apparently did a good job in making a short abstract.. although I don't even seem to recall Aces' mentioned the HP-UX factor, so just maybe I read a SECOND article on "expensive servers" somewhere ?
Oh well, why bother answering. You're spud right ? you're the guy that copy pastes entire intel white papers while changing a few words left and right (even making the information incorrect at times, cause you havent got a clue whats in those papers), and then pretends its your work ?
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
I quickly reread aces' article.. sorry, i can't find anything in my posts here that would even seem inspired by that article. the only resmeblence is that both mention Itanium Opteron and HPC. maybe HPC was a new word for you that caught your attention ?
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
Its quite ammuseing that you constantly post opinions and theories and speculations as fact. You are missleading many folks here by saying anything about HPC markets. Especially with no links of credable support.
But I do suppose thats what forums are about is opinions and speculations. I just find it unusual that the HPC market has anything to do with Opteron usage by HP to begin with. Since the news is just that HP is adopting the Opteron line not that they are going to be tossing them in their superdomes.
-taitertot
If this post has attitude, seems to be overly aggressive, rude, distasteful to 99% of the users here, and shows a zealous defense of Intel... It’s probably Spud.
>Its quite ammuseing that you constantly post opinions and
>theories and speculations as fact.
anything that is in the future tense is pretty much by definition a theory/speculation, and if you think they are not realistic for whatever reason, feel free to counter my opinions. Anything I've written in the current tense, is to the best of my knowledge, fact.
>You are missleading many folks here by saying anything
>about HPC markets. Especially with no links of credable
>support.
To support what exactly ?
> I just find it unusual that the HPC market has anything to
>do with Opteron usage by HP to begin with. Since the news
>is just that HP is adopting the Opteron line not that they
>are going to be tossing them in their superdomes.
I mentioned HPC as a market where Itanium is currently rather successfull, mostly because of its FP performance, and the fact porting software if far less an issue than in eg a transactional environment. What so hard to understand about that ?
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
.
With what, I don’t pretend to know anything about HPC users and their needs. When asked do I feel that the Opteron has an opportunity to make a good splash there based on what I do know of HPC users. I can safely say no since these guys do write their own code and regardless of the compiler dependencies the Itanium has it still has the highest IPC of any silicon currently available to the market. But again that’s my opinion based on information I've had a chance to read and what I have seen.
Quote :
I mentioned HPC as a market where Itanium is currently rather successful, mostly because of its FP performance, and the fact porting software if far less an issue than in eg a transactional environment. What so hard to understand about that?
Your talking enterprise servers last I checked and enterprise 4-8 way systems are classified as HPC. HPC is still currently owned by the Itanium, since it doesn't need to be in a superdome to be called enterprise.
Truth be known though buddy at Aces was right huge discounted Itanium servers are floating around. It’s tough to move over to a whole new environment so they need to entice users to move over. The Opteron will need the same procedure on the level of recoding\ compiling\ debugging
-taitertot
If this post has attitude, seems to be overly aggressive, rude, distasteful to 99% of the users here, and shows a zealous defense of Intel... It’s probably Spud.
