Yet another dissapointing prescott (p)review

[Guest]

prescott benched 8 to 13% slower than northwood on these apps:<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13847" target="_new">http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13847</A>

If these numbers are verified (but so far, every leaked benchmark seems to point in this direction), maybe intel should rebadge Prescott as a "Celerium 4" to make it obvious prescott is somewhere inbetween the real pentium 4 (northwood) and celeron per clock ?

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[Spitfire_x86]

Celerium....lol

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[Rainchill]

I suppose if I had to choose sides, I'd say I am an AMD fan. Read., not fanboy...just fan.

6-8 months ago I was really thinking that the prescott was going to really give AMD a good smacking. But now with all of Intel's seeming design flaws it looks like we might have a semi PIII situation on our hands. I really hope that AMD can capitalize on the situation and take serious market share away from intel.

 

[Guest]

> I really hope that AMD can capitalize on the situation and
>take serious market share away from intel.

AMD's hope should lie in higher ASPs, much more than higher market share. The bulk of the market share is in ~2.4 GHz class chips and Celerons, not in Athlon 64's / 3+ GHz P4s. Having faster chips in the high end helps selling your mainstream chips, but doesnt do miracles. A few years ago, in the race to 1 GHz, AMD had a distinct performance advantage over intel (much more then now, or the next few months I'd guess), but it hardly translated into huge market share gain.

I think AMD penetrating corporate server rooms with the Opteron is much more significant than having the performance crown in the desktop/gaming world, as it may establish AMD as a serious player, which in turn may translate into corporations seriously consider/demand AMD based dektop solutions. I really think this Hector guy got his priorities right when he said they moved from desktop>mobile>server to server>mobile>desktop. Especially as the lowest priority given to desktop solutions still translates into damn nice desktop chips for you and me

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[Kanavit]

I doubt that very much. just walk into a local compusa or best buy. you may have to hunt for an AMD 64 system there. The P4 and Centrino are 99% displayed. It's that Intel has greater supply and demand than AMD. That's why Microsoft is delaying Windows 64-bit for extended systems. They are optimizing for Intel 64-bit.

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[Mephistopheles]

Prescott as a "Celerium 4" to make it obvious prescott is somewhere inbetween the real pentium 4 (northwood) and celeron per clock ?

Ummm, that's funny... But Celeron is still very, very, very much higher on the crap scale. It is still unbelievably slower than prescott... Even if prescott is a few percentage points slower than northwood. Or 10%, for that matter.

Well, I'm holding my breath - just a little bit - for monday's NDA-withdrawal. But... Hm... ***scratching my head***

<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles

 

[Guest]

> But Celeron is still very, very, very much higher on the
>crap scale

Hey, I know.. i did the PR rating thing for the celeries, remember But then, prescott based celerons with 256 Kb cache might be a lot less crappy, and actually turn out to be a decent budget cpu's.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[Guest]

>I doubt that very much. just walk into a local compusa or
>best buy. you may have to hunt for an AMD 64 system there.
>The P4 and Centrino are 99% displayed.

We don't have best buys here, but where I live, there is a pretty decent ammount of AMD based systems for sale in any computer shop. Remember AMD's marketshare is far higher outside the US, than inside. Maybe Europeans and Orientals (is that a word ?) are just smarter and ignore the hype ?

>It's that Intel has greater supply and demand than AMD.

Instant classic ! Gee, you're clueless.. LMAO

>That's why Microsoft is delaying Windows 64-bit for
>extended systems.

Hmm.. I wish I could copy paste something that has just arrived in my mail box. I promised not to, so I'll just advice you to wait until after IDF, and you may get a few wake up calls (which of course you'll ignore, but hey..)

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[endyen]

A while ago I was saying the pre-release reviews on the A-64 were BS, and man was i right. Same source as well. What I see happening though, is intel dropping thier price on the 800? fsb woody, and taking a cut out of the xp market share. I want intel to be good competition so amd is able to push the limit. Faster chips from intel are ok, cheaper chips scare me. At this point in time, amd doesn't have the fabs to run more than 20% or so of the market, so they cant take a comanchee lead in perf, they would have to wait. Intel could eat them from the bottom up.

 

[Guest]

> while ago I was saying the pre-release reviews on the A-64
>were BS, and man was i right

Not sure, those 800 MHz previews seemed to indicate A64 was pretty good, as it turned out. I don't remember seeing a whole lot of terrible A64 previews.. but could be wrong.

> I want intel to be good competition so amd is able to push
> the limit.

Ha.. well, don't worry just yet . intel is still the worst competitor you could probably imagine, even if it doesnt have a performance crown. It still has $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

>Faster chips from intel are ok, cheaper chips scare me. At >this point in time, amd doesn't have the fabs to run more
>than 20% or so of the market, so they cant take a comanchee
>lead in perf, they would have to wait.

Hu ? Of course they can ! They would just charge astronomical prices like they did for the first 1 GHz Athlons (what was it, $1300 ?). That was good btw, not that anyone with a sane mind bought the 1 GHz chips, but you could buy 866 P3's or similar athlons for dirt cheap ! Today is similar, with the FX on top, the EE like the P3 1 GHz being very much available, and completely ridiculously priced, but the 3 GHz P4's and 3000+ Athlon64's being the real sweet deals.

Anyway, as AMD extends its performance advantage over the year (yes, i'm pretty sure that will happen), expect AMD's ASP's to go up. I think the Athlon FX is already a nice illustration of this. But I doubt they will really be holding back faster chips...

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[endyen]

Thanks, that eased my mind a bit.

 

[Johanthegnarler]

I hope AMD as well will capitalize on this situation, but as well i would like to see advancements from Intel. Being an enthusiast i like to see change in different directions from all sides of the business.

But.. as well I would like to see Linux come mainstream. Only so it offers a mainstream alternative. This will allow most games to be made for Linux and an option for me to not use Windows.

As for the review you read please take it with a grain of salt. It's the inquirer. Same tabloid that has Bush having sex with aliens.(Not saying that isn't true, but it's highly unlikely.)

<A HREF="http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=610166081" target="_new">http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=610166081</A>
Figured i'd do it too..reality my ass.

 

[Guest]

I wouldnt call the INQ a tabloid. Its by far and away the best IT news and rumour site on the web. But some people have trouble distinguishing humour and irony from the more factual reports.. well, I guess reading the INQ requires an IQ bigger than your shoe size to be able to appreciate it

But I agree, they are not exactly the most reputable benchmarking site; however, running the same benchmark twice with each time a differen cpu shouldnt be all that hard. So while absolute numbers might be off compared to other sites, if prescott is indeed faster, those benches should show it as well.. there is not much room for f*uck ups, even if they wanted to

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[Johanthegnarler]

If microsoft is waiting for intel then why would they spend tons of money to put a booth in linuxworld? They want to try and slow down linux going mainstream. Not to mention it is majorly flawed*RUMORSONLY* Knowing that tons of enthusiasts and loyal anti gates groupies will go to Linux which will do anything to take a chunk away from M$.
Linux going mainstream and supporting 64bit would be an awesome step if they could do it before Intel/M$.

So, although M$ has unlimitied funds, not putting out their 64bit OS just due to Intel not putting a 64bit cpu out could possibly prove to be a bad business move.

I do however agree with the fact that yes.. mainstream desktop systems are definately Intel's. And if it was only a small picture of Intel vs AMD and those were the only factors then why would M$ rush a product out that isn't ready if there is only a small fraction of the market that will be attempting to use it.
But considering that Microsoft will have competition within the next few years and knowing that Linux could gain some ground with the 64 bit apps you would think m$ would want to try and slow this down.

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Figured i'd do it too..reality my ass.

 

[Kelledin]

That's why Microsoft is delaying Windows 64-bit for extended systems. They are optimizing for Intel 64-bit.

You should have been on Ace's forums a few weeks back, when this topic was discussed. Apparently, it turns out that MSFT basically told Intel, "We're not going to support two 64-bit x86 ISAs. Make Yamhill AMD64 compatible, or else."

I'm going to take a wild guess and suggest that maybe this is the dire secret bbaeyens can't speak of. There's something to be said for thunder theft...

<i><Lionel Hutz> I'll be defending...The SCO Group!!!??? Even if I lose, I'll be famous!</i>

 

[taitertot]

They dont need to make it AMD64 compatible all they need to do is make it IA-64 compatable since there is a WOW layer in the current Windows XP64 bit and Windows 2003 builds as well as a better x86 emulation layer for the Itainum.

-taitertot

If this post has attitude, seems to be overly aggressive, rude, distasteful to 99% of the users here, and shows a zealous defense of Intel... It’s probably Spud.

 

[Kelledin]

They dont need to make it AMD64 compatible all they need to do is make it IA-64 compatable since there is a WOW layer in the current Windows XP64 bit and Windows 2003 builds as well as a better x86 emulation layer for the Itainum.

I don't think you can make Netburst CPUs IA64 compatible at the drop of a hat. Intel hadn't planned on bringing IA64 anywhere near cheap x86 for another year or two. And unless Intel introduces a cheap x86+IA64 part at some point, IA64 is going to remain in the same niche where many RISC architectures curled up and died.

<i><Lionel Hutz> I'll be defending...The SCO Group!!!??? Even if I lose, I'll be famous!</i>

 

[endyen]

M$ has stated they will make it A64 compatable. If Ntel wants to stick to IA64 with x86 emulation that's just fine by me, amd would love that to.

 

[taitertot]

I never said they would all I said was they would most likely add IA64 registers to the mix. Whether it be Tejas or not is yet to be seen.

-taitertot

If this post has attitude, seems to be overly aggressive, rude, distasteful to 99% of the users here, and shows a zealous defense of Intel... It’s probably Spud.

 

[Guest]

>I never said they would all I said was they would most
>likely add IA64 registers to the mix.

hu ? "add some IA64 registers" ?? not even sure what that is supposed to mean, but if you mean adding more registers to prescott, than what exactly does that change ? You think prescott (or tejas) will be able to execute IA64 code ? Or you think a 32 bit (x86) cpu can run 64 bit VLIW software through emulation ? Let alone perform at least somewhat reasonably ?

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[Coop]

They dont need to make it AMD64 compatible all they need to do is make it IA-64 compatable since there is a WOW layer in the current Windows XP64 bit and Windows 2003 builds as well as a better x86 emulation layer for the Itainum.

And wich one will be the fastest you think, Intel`s x86-32-IA64 ore AMD`s x86-32-64 ?
I bet my money on AMD`s 64 bit ! why ? wel to make a Itanium perform well you need tons of cache.
Much more then the 1mb Prescott have now.

All i hear is good news for AMD, and for intel all bad news, times are changing ! and its the best for us !

THG : The last 5-6 reviews have allways either had skewed results, or just somehow strangely come to a completly diferant conclusion then all of the other sites around.

 

[endyen]

It might just depend on the site.

 

[Schmide]

You cannot just add IA64 compatibility. The register set for IA64 is extremely complex. For general purpose registers you have 32 static registers and then 96 stack like registers that operate in a <A HREF="http://www.devx.com/assets/intel/3000.gif" target="_new">rotating window</A>. The 128 FP register are a bit more straight forward. Add to this the 32 (24 used) different instruction groupings and the idea of simple compatibility just doesn’t fit.

Dichromatic for your viewing plesure...

 

[taitertot]

I’m aware of the difficulty to implement such things but Yamhill has been around for quite some time so it’s hardly an issue of time till completion.

But regardless of that it comes down to the issue of adding these features to the current x 86 lines. If they choose not to then the IA64 line might as well get pushed hard into the desktop area.

As for Dickos comments I wont say much since he’s obviously interesting in seeing his own text in print than actually seriously discussing the pros and cons of x86-64 vs. IA64.

-taitertot

If this post has attitude, seems to be overly aggressive, rude, distasteful to 99% of the users here, and shows a zealous defense of Intel... It’s probably Spud.

 

[Zoron]

Maybe Europeans and <b>Orientals</b> (is that a word ?) are just smarter and ignore the hype ?

Asians man, Asians. The word 'Oriental' is used to describe inatimate objects originating in the Orient. Calling Asians Orientals is likely going to get you labelled as racist.

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