64 bit and future proofing

[hogfather]

Hi

My parents need a new pc. They've had the present one since early 98, p2 350 mhx etc. :| My question is, as the amd64 3000 is such a bargain, is it future proof for a good 3 years? How is the upgrade path? (eg my xp2000 will upgrade to a 2400 np, will the 64 be a similar system of upgrade without new motherboard?) I can sort other components, but is it worth getting a p4 c, as prescott will launch and prices fall? Basically, is intel p4c more future proof, or amd 64?

Cheers,

Chris

XP2000, 256ddr 2100ram, GF4 MX440, XP Pro

 

[Snaggle]

the 64s socket is only going to be supported this year.None of the current sockets is future proof;but depending on usage both the p4s and amd64s should be usable for the next three years for most games;but remember in the next year just about everything will be changing:sata hds will be mainstream;ddr II will replace ddr I;the pci extress slot will replace the agp slot;the form factor of cases will also change and windows for 64 bit will also be out(sooner of later).This is a bad time for a future proof build.

 

[compn00b]

If you have to buy now (like I did), I suggest you go AMD64 3000+. Performs better now, and Socket 754 will go up to AMD64 3700+. As for 64bit intels, im not sure. It also seems like the trend with 64 bit socket 478 will not out perform their amd equivalents.

 

[gobeavers]

Im in the same situation as you hogfather, but I am going to wait to build them one until PCI-EX comes out, and preferably DDR2 and SATA2.

Anxiously awaiting yamhill....is it here yet?

 

[Mephistopheles]

This is a bad time for a future proof build.

Absolutely agree with you... Personally, I'm waiting a bit longer... Maybe June/July.

<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles

 

[Mephistopheles]

It also seems like the trend with 64 bit socket 478 will not out perform their amd equivalents.

Well, current AMD processors have a lead over Intel's in current 32-bit software, but I wouldn't be too eager to extrapolate this as a stable trend...

Noone even knows what A64's performance will be in 64-bit software, let alone an eventual P4-64... And it is highly unlikely that S478 will be seeing a 64-bit P4. I'd say that LGA775 certainly will... And what will become of prescott when alderwood and grantsdale mature? What about Intel's new techs, DDR2/PCI-E/eventual 64-bit?...

Things are so messy in the CPU side of things right now that I'd be cautious about predicting anyone's performance superiority for anything but the very near future.

<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles

 

[hogfather]

Thanks for the replies! I guess it is an unknown factor whether the A64 is actually any good in 64 bit OS :|
Thing is, I could be waiting for ever, you know? I appreciate PCI-Express is arriving, ddrII, and so on. But what kind of premiums are we going to have to swallow in order to get these technologies? If an ati 9800xt costs £199 by the summer in agp 8x, but £350 for the pci ex version, is it worth bothering with for the moment? I'm thinking just a conventional system would be absolutely fine; a64 3000, 512mb 3200 / 3500 ddr, 9600xt, xp pro, audigy, sis chipset etc. Waiting isnt a great option, easter at latest, bear in mind this pc of his is a 350mhz p2, 98mb ram, Matrox G200 8mb :|

XP2000, 256ddr 2100ram, GF4 MX440, XP Pro

 

[CaptainNemo]

Yep - sometimes you just have to take the plunge...

However, buying top-of-the-range will always hurt if you can't afford the depreciation. I had to replace a mobo & cpu in December, but the replacements were actually cheaper (and better) than the original parts. Anyone who buys an A64 3000+ or P4 2.4-8C system at the moment isn't going to lose a horrendous amount of money if something better comes out in 6/12 months; it is the people who shell out $500 for CPUs that will get stung.

CPUs & Mobos are only one part of the PC; I buy memory, drives, graphics cards, monitors etc. with a long term attitude, but I don't expect CPUs and Mobos to be 'hot' for more than 12 months.

"Some mice have two buttons. Macintosh has one. So it's extremely difficult to push the wrong button." - Apple ad. circa 1984.

 

[Snaggle]

I'm thinking just a conventional system would be absolutely fine; a64 3000, 512mb 3200 / 3500 ddr, 9600xt, xp pro, audigy, sis chipset etc. Waiting isnt a great option, easter at latest, bear in mind this pc of his is a 350mhz p2, 98mb ram, Matrox G200 8mb :|
[/quoate]

Don't use the sis-the only mobo supporting it is the ecs 755-a(which cann't support ddr400,besides its an ECS ).

 

[Guest]

I wouldnt. waiting seems pointless to me. You can wait, get one of the first PCI-X boards, and find that when you finally need an upgrade (likely more than 2 years later), yoo have to ditch everything anyway. Either that, or you'll want to wait for DDR-III, PCI-even-more-Express, P7, BTX, .. or God knows what. And if you have to upgrade for whatever reason within the next 6 or 12 months, there will still be plenty of cpu's and videocards to match your current setup. And off course DDR ram. Nah, 6 months from here may be a good time to buy, but now is a great time as well to buy a 3000+.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[Mephistopheles]

True, I can't wait forever.

However, I just bought a digital camera (I love the thing, BTW) and it did eat into my savings just a bit... And even so, I wanted my next computer to be a great computer, not just an average one, and for that, I need a certain amount of money.

So I figure that, in 6 months, I'll have more cash and I'll be able to buy a better computer than I can now; meanwhile, I'm not terribly in need of an upgrade.

 

[Spitfire_x86]

Go for the A64 3000+. The future will always look bright. If you need a new system, then get it.

The fastest CPU for socket 754 is going to be at least A64 3700+ (maybe even better, but 3700+ is gurranted).

Personally I think, the best time for building as future-proof as possible system is mid 2005.

----------------
<b><A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86" target="_new">My Website</A></b>

<b><A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86/myrig.html" target="_new">My Rig & 3DMark score</A></b>

 

[pat]

based on my parent needs, amd64 might be all they need for 10 or more years...what do they do with their computer? Internet, cards game, home finance, ...

Umless they play games like MoH or HL,...

common...they dont need a benchmark rig...unless I'm wrong!

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!

 

[Guest]

Wether you get a P4 or A64, the thing will be nearly 10x as fast as their current machine, and should last *at least* 3 years unless they get involved into heavy gaming or non stop DVD ripping; and even then.

As for upgrade paths; neither a A64 not a P4 purchased now will be very upgradable in 3 or 5 years. But frankly, who cares ? I mean, would you consider upgrading their current P2-350 to a P3-500 even if you could ? I thought not. If you re not a gamer/freak that upgrades at least once or twice a year, there is no sense in worrying about upgradeablilty, socket changes, etc.

Now, as for your question: P4 or A64.. like I said, they will be happy with either, and not likely notice a 5% difference between two machines that are roughly 1000% faster but my vote goes to the A64 because:
-It supports 64 bit windows, which may be mainstream in 3 or 5 years
-its got Cool & Quiet, allowing you to make them a completely silent system when they are not doing cpu intensive stuff
-its got a better price performance, especially the A64 3000+ which I would recommend.



= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[juin]

personally a 2.8C or 2.6C is fast and overclock like hell so my choice would be that.

I dont like french test

 

[redface]

Your parents using it?
IMHO a P4 2.6C will be more than enough!
If you want cheap, go for bargain stuffs like XP2500+ or P4-2.4C if you can find one. They will certainly allow your parents to do web browsing for another three years watch dvd for another 3years.
Except if your parents want DX9 games/video editing, they certainly doesn't need 2.8ghz or ath64.

A fine day!

 

[Guest]

>Your parents using it?

No, I give my mother usually my old stuff. She currently uses a XP1800+, and yes that is enough for her, no doubt. But if I where to build her a new machine to last several years, instead of giving her my left overs every time I upgrade, I would build her a 3000+. It would be maybe $100 more than a barton system, but the performance, future proofness, and cool&quiet would be worth it if you are spending close to $800 anyway.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[hogfather]

Hmmm, realistically, I suppose parents arent going to be playing HL2 or Doom III

The only reason I'm thinking upgrade paths is that come 2 years time, upgrade will be pretty cheap, more ram, new proccessor - but same motherboard. Features like firewire can be added in pci form when its needed. Perhaps an a64 3000 is too much....I dont know. If it goes up to 3700, thats most likely at the 3ghz mark, and should match an intel 3.9/4ghz I suppose. Found this pc:-

<http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/PCspec.html?PC-0546T>

only £599 (no monitor, but np)I'm leaning away from intel, perhaps an xp would be alright, but they're on te way out now, upgrade cycle ends at the 3200.

XP2000, 256ddr 2100ram, GF4 MX440, XP Pro

 

[TheRod]

Why don't you use my trick!

When someone in my family or friends needs an upgrade I usally switch parts... For example, you could sell your own PC to your parents (enough) for web surfing etc... And buy the missing pieces to build you A64 3000+ based system.



Everyone will be happy!

--
Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?

 

[hogfather]

Hmm, I guess I could, but this pc only cost me £500 including monitor back in summer 2001, so I couldnt ask more than 250 quid, and thats not enough

XP2000, 256ddr 2100ram, GF4 MX440, XP Pro

 

[HardWareBoss]

Can you hold out till next year? For Tejas.

 

[Guest]

Did you say the same last year ? Wait for Prescott ? I bet you did. Why wait ? Well, not having the money is a good reason I guess, as is not needing an upgrade, but those are the only ones I can see.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[Grand_Witch]

I think there is one major problem with purchasing Hardware and that is the speed at which standards change.

If you are constantly holding off on your purchase to buy the latest technology or standard then you are never going to be able to buy anything as there is always something else waiting to be released. The trick is to just hold your nose and dive in and buy something that meets your needs and be realistic. If you don't play games then you don't need a hugely powerful graphics card or 1GB of RAM. Sometimes on forums it is always assumed that the latest technology is the best but it is not always the case.

I have been a victim of this and keep holding off my purchase of a new mobo/graphics card and processor. Everytime I have made my decision I then read an article about the next big thing.

It is getting to the point where I dread the annual upgrade process. Although it was painless when I bought new speaker (Altec Lansing won hands down)


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein

 

[kinney]

Hey pal, for one, anyone who tells you that ANY hardware is 'future proof' is an idiot.
Saying "late 2006 is the best time to build a future proof machine"... IS THE DUMBEST THING IVE EVER HEARD!
YES give me a future proof 9000+.

Buy what your needs are and spend the most within whatever you deem reasonable to fit those needs.

Thats it.
I would personally recommend buying now, or whenever you need to have this computer.
Dont wait for anything.
Unless you use the same time machine you used to see what processor was more future proof to see when the 'best' time to buy is.
Prices are constantly dropping, have for years and years... technology is constantly improving, has been for years and years.
Best time to buy is ALWAYS, now.
Unless of course these intel fanboys have a time machine.

Would I have regretted buying a Athlon XP 2500+ a month before the Athlon 64 was launched? No.
Its still a kickass processor. Anything you buy these days is going to be kickass, and will continue to be kickass as much as mankind can promise you it will be.

Now go take a look at reviews and see if you need a A64 3000+.
Thats my pick of the litter.

AMD is king of the hill, and that is what you should buy.
Good luck

----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil.
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!

 

[Zoron]

Anything you buy these days is going to be kickass, and will continue to be kickass as much as mankind can promise you it will be.

Now kinney... it isn't nice to tell lies. I thought your momma would have taught you better than that.

Not ANYTHING you buy now is going to kick ass. The Celeron sucks ass.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>