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To all those BITCHING about Prescott!!

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February 2, 2004 4:00:59 PM

You all were bitching about the P4 when it first came out, and how worse it was compared to the PIII...

and in a few months we all praised the mighty INTEL for the greatest chip on earth...the... "cough" "P4" as well!!!!! (1.8AGHZ)

and now u r all starting all over again...so STOP ALREADY...in a few months we all will be craving to get a PRESCOTT!!!

More about : bitching prescott

February 2, 2004 4:06:01 PM

bog off, troll...

"Some mice have two buttons. Macintosh has one. So it's extremely difficult to push the wrong button." - Apple ad. circa 1984.
February 2, 2004 4:09:59 PM

sonny....I've been on these forums for a little over 3 years...and this is the first time I've been called a troll...

I am SHOCKED!!

lol...get a life son..
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February 2, 2004 4:29:29 PM

It's spelled with two Ts.

Anyway, I personally think that there is nothing to bitch about. It has up and down performance relative to Northwood, going down in games mostly--I don't mind that. Combined with supposedly great OC potential (eventhough it's hot as hell at stock speeds...don't quite understand that one), it might be worth a try. But if somebody wants the best overall or the best gaming CPU--just don't use Prescott. Also, the SSE3 and HT instructions have yet to be coded for (MPEGConcept did, but only one of the instructions is video encoding anyway).

My two cents: it's not a bad CPU, but it's no record breaker.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
February 2, 2004 4:50:53 PM

"TT" fixed...thanks for the heads up!!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 2, 2004 5:03:58 PM

I agree that the Prescott that we see right now could be compared to the willamette P4. One thing is bugging me tough. For the last few month weve been waiting for prescott, saying oh yeah the A64 does great but lets see how it performs against the P4E. Now that its out, everyone is like ummmm lets wait and see what Tejas will have to offer.
This CPU is kind of a mystery to me. While I could imagine some people rushing to the store to buy some A64 while it was hot and new. I cant see anyone running to the store for a Scotty.
Now the only thing that make sens is that this processor is only a transition, some way to tune their 90nm process and such.
Now Tejas should be another story, the change in the name should indicate a change in the architechture not just a 45 stage 6ghz cpu...
February 2, 2004 6:24:05 PM

Do not think of Prescott as having meaning or value to an enthusiast. Think of it from the OEM perspective. Intel can force OEMs to upgrade their cases to ones with better airflow and better power supplies. At the same time Intel gets more CPUs per wafer than with Northwood, thus saving them money. Prescott was a foot in the door of the etching technology (as well as likely Yamhill technology, though we will probably never see <i>that</i> in a Prescott) and thus a means of furthering their future plans without hindering present performance.

Prescott is not an A64 killer. It is a business move.


"Sad is the elephant upon the ice who went to put on his wooly coat only to realize that he left it in his other trunk." - DeEvolution
February 2, 2004 6:25:23 PM

Quote:
You all were bitching about the P4 when it first came out, and how worse it was compared to the PIII...

Yes but the P4 based on the Willy core was pants, it was only untill Northwood came along that the P4 really shined.

Im almost certain that in a few months I will not be craving to get a Prescott. At present it offers no performance advantages over the northwood. Unless in the next 3 months every single application I use is re-released with SSE3 and hyperthreading optimisations, there will be no reason for me to get it.

Prescott might be worth getting once it has moved form as478 to the new socket. But at the moment I cant see a single reason why i would want to buy it other than to say "Look everyone ive got the brand new P4!".

[Insert witty comment here]
February 2, 2004 6:32:19 PM

You know what the funniest part is?

At INTRODUCTION, in MHZ
Willamette/Prescott
1400/2800 (lowest)
1500/3000
1600/3200
1700/3400 (highest)

It's an exact double. And Willamette topped out at 2.0 or 2.2Ghz... I'm not sure... which is about half the clock speed by which Prescott probably will be replaced, too! Which is about 4.0-4.5Ghz... It's exactly twice.

Pointless, I know... Just a few useless thoughts of mine.

I think Prescott is to Tejas what Willamette was to Northwood...
February 2, 2004 7:05:39 PM

Coincidence is the jest of fate.


"Sad is the elephant upon the ice who went to put on his wooly coat only to realize that he left it in his other trunk." - DeEvolution
Anonymous
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February 2, 2004 7:25:38 PM

>You all were bitching about the P4 when it first came out,
>and how worse it was compared to the PIII...

Yep.

>and in a few months we all praised the mighty INTEL for the
>greatest chip on earth...the... "cough" "P4" as well!!!!!
>(1.8AGHZ)

Nope, a few years later we praised mighty intel for one of their greatest chips in recent history: the revamped P3 known as Banias.

>in a few months we all will be craving to get a PRESCOTT!!!

Willamette has never became a good chip, I definately never craved one. P4 only became a decent chip after the die shrink, and cache doubling that made Northwood. Well, if you are going to wait for another shrink and cache increase of Prescott this time, you may need a lot of patience...

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
February 2, 2004 7:31:39 PM

It's not pure bashing, it's just that many people expected more from the Prescott. It will probably be a great 4GHz CPU (at least, for marketing purpose :smile: ).

And like anyone says, it's not worth upgrading to Prescott now, more heat for the same performance. The CPU will only cost more electricy and maybe PSU upgrade to actual P4 users.

QUESTION : Do you think Intel will stop speeding up P4C? Probably!

--
Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?
February 2, 2004 7:37:40 PM

if intel made a 90nm exact copy of the p4 with maybe 1mb (aka pull a tualatin) of cache they would have a damn nice processor and it would definitly scale to 4ghz...


If it isn't a P6 then it isn't a procesor
110% BX fanboy
February 2, 2004 8:28:26 PM

Yeah but this is still a P4 not P5 like you said the Willy sux and it still does Yes the P4 is better now but they never really improved the Willy and I would guess that like the Willy, Prescott wont improve that much until they come out with a better core for the P4, (like they did with the transision from the Willy to the NW) or they come out with the P5 (which ever comes first I would guess)

But I do exept the fact that once SSE3 and the new HT comes out this Prescott my work better in alot of diffrent areas but I don't see Prescott getting any better exept for increasing clock speed.

You also have to look at it from Intels point of veiw yes this core isn't better then the North Wood but guess what its cheaper for Intel to make so in the end it works out for them because really it isn't worse then the North Wood.

Thats just my Opinion

-------------------------------------------------
Remember what your fighting for, Remember why you even started fighting, and Remember who you are<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Frozen_Fallout on 02/02/04 04:35 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 2, 2004 8:53:57 PM

>f intel made a 90nm exact copy of the p4 with maybe 1mb
>(aka pull a tualatin) of cache they would have a damn nice
>processor

Just like a P3 on a smaller process and more cache (tualatin) was likely a much nicer processor than Willamette. Like many people (including myself) wondered what the deal was with intial Pentiums (60/66) when old 486DX4 outperformed them on many benches.

By contrast, every new AMD chip is vastly superior to its predecedor, K5->K6, K6-> Athlon, Athlon->Athlon XP, XP-> A64.

OTOH, every new AMD chip seems to run out of steam by the end of its life time.. K6 was getting pathetic once P2 really ramped, Athlon Classic (slot A) was holding its own against the P3 own but also lost performance ground due to its slow (2/5 speed) external cache, AXP got beaten hands down by the P4 near the end of its life.

Somewhat different way of designing and planning I guess. Intel gets better as it matures, AMD seems to get stuck after a while and everyone is waiting for their next chip.. Thunderbid might have been the only exception, and maybe K8 will be the next ?

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
February 2, 2004 9:54:20 PM

Indeed! I figure that Intel must apply a smoothening algorithm, so to speak, to their performance curve. It is smooth and it grows faster than AMD's curve.

However, AMD's curve, while growing slower, sometimes leaps in performance, and when they do, they'll be ahead of Intel. But, as the generation ends, Intel's higher performance derivative will get them better chips than AMD's. This was the case with barton. Something like:

performance>
+------------------>
|<font color=blue>X</font color=blue>
|-<font color=green>0</font color=green><font color=blue>X</font color=blue>
|--<font color=green>0</font color=green>-<font color=blue>X</font color=blue>
|---<font color=green>0</font color=green>--<font color=blue>X</font color=blue>------------GENERATION END
|--------<font color=blue>X</font color=blue>--<font color=green>0</font color=green>------------GENERATION START
|----------<font color=blue>X</font color=blue>-<font color=green>0</font color=green>
|------------<font color=blue>X</font color=blue><font color=green>0</font color=green>
|--------------<font color=blue>X</font color=blue>------------Point of equal perf.
|---------------<font color=green>0</font color=green><font color=blue>X</font color=blue>
|----------------<font color=green>0</font color=green>-<font color=blue>X</font color=blue>
|-----------------<font color=green>0</font color=green>--<font color=blue>X</font color=blue>------------GENERATION END
|----------------------<font color=blue>X</font color=blue>--<font color=green>0</font color=green>------------GENERATION START
|------------------------<font color=blue>X</font color=blue>-<font color=green>0</font color=green>
|--------------------------<font color=blue>X</font color=blue><font color=green>0</font color=green>
|----------------------------<font color=blue>X</font color=blue>
V
time

<font color=green>0</font color=green> - AMD Performance
<font color=blue>X</font color=blue> - Intel performance or Point of equal performance.

Well, this is using the resources at hand... I hope you can imagine something with this... It's a graph that has been rotated clockwise by 90 degrees. It was easier to make in standart text characters that way, and represents an idea I was thinking about...

This is still no excuse for prescott's performance right now, though!!! :mad: 
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 02/03/04 00:05 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
February 2, 2004 10:27:07 PM

You know I kinda find it funny though... People about 3 months or so ago where bitching about how AMD didn't improve there performance as much as was hoped. They kept on saying that Intel was going to blow the Athlon64 out of the water with this Prescott chip and now that it is out people are just saying wait a while longer until they improve Prescott or wait for the new core Intel is going to make.

I just find it funny how allot of people a few months ago who where complaining about how Athlon64 wasn’t that much of an improvement and how it sucked because it didn't give the 100% boost that many thought that it would (I don't understand that because I was happy with the results that the A64 gave us) are now saying that this brand new core of Intel’s isn't that bad because its at least on par with the NW.

Although if you are right and in the long run Prescott shows its true colors and kicks the crap out of the A64 then I guess Im wrong.

To put it simply I am very very happy with the performance of the A64 not only did improve in the areas that it was already doing good in (Gaming) it also greatly improved in areas that the Athlons couldn't even compete with Intel in.

I am very very disappointed in this Prescott in that in not only didn't improve over all it also lost power in areas where the A64 is kicking ass in like Gaming.

The way I kind of see it. (not that I know anything about what Intel is thinking) but as far as I can see Intel seems like its backing out of the Gaming area because AMD seems to have that area and it is starting to work on other areas. Im not saying Im even close on this one its just a simple observation.

(Yeah Yeah I know my spelling sux)


-------------------------------------------------
Remember what your fighting for, Remember why you even started fighting, and Remember who you are
February 3, 2004 12:14:14 AM

Quote:
You all were bitching about the P4 when it first came out, and how worse it was compared to the PIII...

Yeah, why who have problems with it? Unless you want to make people beleive that they should buy prescott now, because 1 year later new generation prescotts may turn out good, so they will be able to brag saying that we have the ancestor of this great cpu in my box.

Quote:
and in a few months we all praised the mighty INTEL for the greatest chip on earth...the... "cough" "P4" as well!!!!! (1.8AGHZ)

WTF?!?!! Northwood 1.8A was great at stock speed? I've rarely heard BS like it. NW "A" didn't suck big time like Willamette, it was merely okay at stock speed. AXP 1700+ can beat NW 1.8A GHz in almost every benchmark by noticable margin. The reason why many enthusiasts bought NW 1.8A because it was highly overclockable compared to palomino AXPs. At overclocked speed, it was the fastest. Currently, between NW 1.8A GHz and AXP T-bred "B" 1700+, the later one is the automatic choice. AXP T-bred "B" 1700+ is faster at stock speed and even better overclocker.

P4s started to become real good from Northwood "B". It was after ~20 months of Willamette release. Did Northwood "B" made the fact false that Willamette was horrible and Willamette buyers got fvcked up by Intel?

----------------
<b><A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86" target="_new">My Website</A></b>

<b><A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86/myrig.html" target="_new">My Rig & 3DMark score</A></b>
February 3, 2004 2:41:00 AM

The only good new i have found is future Prescott thos in Q2/Q3 will use less power.As they only work with FMB 1.5 those 3.4 and lower will work with FMB 1.0 and thee a chance that 3.6 will too after that will be FMB 1.5 only.SO i can guess power consumation will decrease by 15 watt.90NM was suppost to be at 1.2 volt not 1.3 they are kind of border ligne prescott.It weird it the 1 time that is not a mix of RCdelay/heat that restreint the CPU only power consumation.Let hope that scalling for prescott is really better.

I dont like french test
February 3, 2004 5:29:20 AM

Isn't it clear.... Intel is playing the MHZ game

screw IPC

They will keep up the stages and upping the MHZ to compensate for the huge latencies

then they can say HEY BUY THE NEW PENTIUM 5 6.0 GHZ or buy a 3.5 GHZ ATHLON 64.... NO CONTEST INTEL WINS

except benches will the show the athlon faster in most apps

but the lemmings will see 6.0GHZ is faster than 3.5GHZ gimme the Pentium 5

and the funny thing...from what i am hearing... AMD will play the game right back with the k9... lengthing its pipelines...but running DUAL CORE
February 3, 2004 5:33:24 AM

Intel is playing the MHZ game.... they will sacrifice overall speed for the big MHZ number
February 3, 2004 6:16:45 AM

Well, once again amd chips are just better.
February 3, 2004 7:00:38 AM

AMD just released a 64 Chip at 3400+ with a 1 MB L2 Cache and improved the FSB by another 200MHz as I said they would do before Intel got off their lazy asses, now it looks like any effort Intel has made is to ignore the 64 bit market in total either because they don't have the technology to offer one or they are trying to fix in house problems with current CPU's as this looks very much the case by the 3 Intel chips they just released and THG has a review about on the main THG page.

It still looks to me even after Mephisto's half decent explanation that Intel simply got left behind this time and does not have a 64 bit CPU they can offer.

If this is the case generating a viable CPU at that level will take them 5 years to accomplish. It is so apparent that the XP CPU's AMD released to market were so well made that AMD had plenty of time this last 2 years to complete a Viable 64 and Intel is still struggling to simply get what they have working.

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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 3, 2004 7:16:41 AM

>If this is the case generating a viable CPU at that level
>will take them 5 years to accomplish

5 years is about right for developping a core. Thing is, Intel did not just start working on it last month. They will have one ready 01H05

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
February 3, 2004 7:34:43 AM

I want to hear what your wife says about all this and stop talking in code I do not have my book handy.

I would need a DOS emulator handy and loaded up to keep some of the screws locked down on you guys ;) 

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February 3, 2004 7:41:27 AM

Hey B what I really wanted to point out is the XP line was so successful for AMD that they made good money.

Like every civilization or company if they turn a profit they have resources extra they can use in new development.

I simply think Intel has so many problems in house that none of us know about that they have been perusing MHz or the lack of it in their current group of processors and the 3 they just released kinda proves out what I was saying for the last few months.

Most Intel fans expected to see the 64 from Intel but it never came out. I also want to see Intel release a 64 CPU at around 5 GHz lets get this over with for the next 5 years at least all of us would know what CPU to buy and only bitch about graphics cards and motherboard/ram issues.

COME ON INTEL GET THE LEAD OUT YU LAZY BITCHES we all know they are flying 5 GHz [-peep-] in stealth fighter/bombers but not the shuttle they use tried tested and true in that so the fire balls look more impressive ;(

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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 3, 2004 7:51:41 AM

Wow.. nice ASCII chart there :) 
Yeah, that was pretty much what I was thinking.. just an observation though, I wouldnt use it predict the future.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
February 3, 2004 7:56:39 AM

I guess i am the only that dont want to see any extention to the X86

I dont like french test
February 3, 2004 8:03:26 AM

Well since I smoke I would pass out in an XP 86 from lack of oxygen to the brain. Give me ten years to get my lungs back in shape the wife and I are on a quite smoking plan so we can do some scuba diving in our late 50's.

Both of us are qualified but I have not done any since the late 80's accept on the learning channel damn.....My soul hurts let us all be free to do what we want to :) 

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February 3, 2004 9:52:33 AM

It kinda funny Northwood 1.8A Came out the Amd 1600 was what beat it. But I agree with the other post. Amd seems to win at the start and later intel wins. It what called Leapfroging. And if it was not for this. Intel would be charging a arm and a leg for a 1 ghz chip. Or amd would be. Even if that chip was out for 3 years cost would be $1,000 for a computer.

This fighting with Intel and Amd (not us) keep the prices down. And the speed of the chip going faster every few Months to a year.

We got to love Intel and Amd fighting for power.
February 3, 2004 11:19:55 AM

Quote:
Wow.. nice ASCII chart there :) 

...thanks... I didn't know I was that patient myself! :smile:

Well, while that pattern was more or less followed in the past, it still is not enough to really predict what will happen, as you point out. I agree. But it helps to try and paint a general picture.
February 3, 2004 12:26:29 PM

You guys are great. M$ has not even released a mainstream operating system that runs 64bit natively yet and almost no one has any 64bit applications that a typical PC user would run yet and you are wanting Intel to release a 64bit CPU? :tongue:

You make me laugh. :lol:  Why on earth would Intel jeopardize losing so much face after all that they have invested into the Itanic just to provide a CPU that is only desired by a niche market? No no no no. If Intel were to do such a thing then they would lose much faith from the very people that they are trying to sell Itanium to. That would do far more damage in the long run than if Intel were to just allow AMD to forge ahead and gain market share with AMD64 so that Intel could then later say "You customers demanded it, so here is our AMD64-compatible product. We did not want to do it but you gave us no choice. Itanium customers, do not blame us. We did not do it." and then steal that market share back. And then Intel laughs while no one is watching and happily produces x86-64 products without angering their customers.

Compared to angering customers and giving the impression of bad faith on the part of Itanium's future what is a little loss in market share now while they wait for the demand in x86-64 to rise and with it the creation of enough software content actually make the hardware worth buying? :lol: 

No, Intel is playing games of politics. :smile: Oh but it is entertaining to watch you dance along with their puppet show. Yes AMD, do Intel's dirty work for them. Pave the way into the market for them. Give them their pretense so that they do not have to risk losing big iron customers.

If I did not know any better I would think that AMD has become nothing more than a shadow corporation for Intel. Has anyone checked to see if AMD is anything more than painted cardboard cavorting in front of Intel's candle to make you look at the shadows on the wall instead of at what Intel is <i>really</i> doing?


"Sad is the elephant upon the ice who went to put on his wooly coat only to realize that he left it in his other trunk." - DeEvolution
February 3, 2004 1:19:20 PM

Would all you whiners like a little cheese with that whine?

If you have an issue, here is your e-tissue >>>>>>>_______

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February 3, 2004 3:47:11 PM

Thw worse is itanium will increase it leas by a factor of 33% to 50% per year compare to anyone.There just infinite power there.It still a new architecture that run on very slow ram system and low clock speed.Those limitation come from it target market.

I dont like french test
February 3, 2004 5:39:45 PM

My question is, are all of those <b>Press</b>cott o/cing articles invalid?
Because those are review CPUs sent from intel and probably hand picked?

To give a realistic consumer standpoint wouldnt they have to be from the channel?

It just runs too hot. Even at stock speeds according to HardOCPs review.

Quote:
Well, if you are going to wait for another shrink and cache increase of Prescott this time, you may need a lot of patience...


You raise an interesting point about shrinking prescott, good luck on that one anytime soon.

----
Support the NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil.
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February 3, 2004 6:21:13 PM

I went back to a thread from September and found some interesting quotes ...

"Intel would drop the Prescott on their asses, and trust me that chips going to thrash the poor showing of the A64." (spud)

"See you guys in 2 months for the Prescott, we all know whats going to be happening there. Poor AMD you got bitch slapped." (spud)

"The A64 gave a decent showing, but I have a feeling that the Prescott will more than definitely cream the A64 in 32-bit considering the excellent showing inspite of the age of the Pentium 4 architecture." (UFO_Warviper)

"Heck prescott is coming out in december IMO it wouldnt matter if the EE never hit the shelves..." (labbbby)

Here's the thread:
<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam..." target="_new">THG's Athlon64 Review</A>

I'm sure Prescott will improve with age, but it's funny to see how some predictions were pretty far off from reality.

<i>Money talks. Mine always likes to say "goodbye." :smile: </i>
February 3, 2004 7:08:00 PM

Yo DE we all realize that there is no operating system for the new 64's but we also all expect to see M$ show up with one.
I posted ages back on the fact that the Chinese and the Japanese have both the brains and the desire to play with new toys they are as it were the galactic seat of nerdy izim and love anything that computes a number faster then an abacus.

If M$ will not provide an operating system for the new toys on the market like the 64 bit technology then they will write their own software.

It might not be legal in the rest of the world to purchase that software if it comes to that but imagine third world countries running around in 64 bit technology and the rest of us having the hardware and no place to shove it!!

Russia will be landing men on the moon and China will be landing men on the red planet.

That kind of hardware technology is no small feat and unless North American companies realize this they are going to be totally frost bitten.

Intel is going to buy the Farm on this, it is not looking good for them at all how can M$ expect to hold on to all the small niches as you put it most people buy the biggest and the best like cars and Plasma T.V's (HardwareBoss ;)  Microsoft is either going to provide an OS for the 64 bit technology or someone else will and we can all understand that millions of Chinese and Japanese scientists are born bread and have the divine ability to produce a viable OS in months if they wanted to.

Heads UP Bill Gates and Heads up Intel. Gamers RULE and corporations drool to have our market. The FIRST rule of management is never to admit anything because if you do the little guy gets a point that hurts, but you can bet your bottom dollar that the gamers market we can synthetically call the MILITARY market makes Intel, AMD and Microsoft jump through hoops like well trained Corgi's.

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February 3, 2004 8:08:52 PM

No know could have predict a huge increase in pipeligne

Just to show bad
February 3, 2004 8:41:49 PM

lol....

juin
...no offense man...but seeing you make it to ANCIENT POSTER with all those posts in francoenglish that most of us never understood..lol.......man...lol...that cracks me up....
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 3, 2004 8:46:46 PM

>My question is, are all of those Presscott o/cing articles
>invalid?

Why would they ?

>To give a realistic consumer standpoint wouldnt they have
>to be from the channel?

There have been overclocking reports from retail products as well. Using appropriate cooling, I have little doubt Prescott can be overclocked to or above 4 GHz stable enough to run some benchmarks. 4 GHz is just 17% more than 3.4 after all.

>It just runs too hot. Even at stock speeds according to
>HardOCPs review.

Watercooled, or with huge noisy HSF's in open cases, that may not be too problematic (though it would be interesting to see if those overclocked chips are not in fact throtteling !), but that is a far cry from having a production ready speedgrade. Some people managed to overclock the Athlon FX to 3 GHz using liquid nitrogen or whatever, that really doesnt mean AMD can release a 3 GHz chip on 130nm this year, or ever.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
February 3, 2004 9:39:40 PM

Quote:
>My question is, are all of those Presscott o/cing articles
>invalid?

Why would they ?

I was insinuating that they were hand picked by intel for review.
The chip isnt good regardless, but it would help if they could shine the best possible light on it they could by sending out better bins.

Quote:
There have been overclocking reports from retail products as well. Using appropriate cooling, I have little doubt Prescott can be overclocked to or above 4 GHz stable enough to run some benchmarks. 4 GHz is just 17% more than 3.4 after all.

Agreed, thats actually terrible scaling considering the architechure is up in the 3+Ghz range and performs worse than AMD cpus at circa 2Ghz.

Taking everything into consideration (its archetechure, pricing, the last revisions scaling (northwood), and the fact that everyone ranted and raved about this thing for months)...I would EXPECT every stock prescott to clock to 4Ghz on air.
If not 4.2Ghz or so. I mean it would have to remain competitive with the 64FX chips and the faster A64s.

I dont know about you, but I think that most reviewers tried very hard to shine a good light on this thing.
I mean, we had to listen to a bunch of BS about how we were supposed to "wait for prescott to whoop up hard on little AMD", now their chip sux..
And everyones out making excuses.

Even intel did, instead of the P5 its still a P4.. thats admittance right there that its subpar to what they originally intended.

Its starting to appear that Intels chosen path of marchitechure and high clocks is not going to work.
It has bad IPC and is not going to scale incredibly high as they need easily.
Versus AMD has more IPC and went other routes for performance, one of which hasnt even been tapped into yet! Thats of course the 64 bit extensions.
Even if prescott is revealed to have 64bit (which if it did we would probably already know), it would STILL be the loser because the A64 line trumps it in 32bit anyway.

Intel might still have a SLIGHT lead in media creation but most people upgrade for games.. almost always have.
AMD is damn near intel in most, and if I was a REAL professional.. that actually needed something good I'd spend more than a simple P4 or Athlon.
For the average consumer the P4 and Athlon are close enough in this category with the A64 launch.
Someone who makes $200,000 doing 3d animation or video editing for movies probably doesnt lower themselves to a single processor P4 or Athlon for their livelihood. I wouldnt.
At least using MP.

Thats how I see the overall scene.. intel has no place besides in Dells and with people who dont know better.

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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 3, 2004 9:48:19 PM

I think you are exagerrating. Prescott performs no worse than Northwood, or not significantly. It is still competitive with Athlon 64, even if not top notch. Assume for a second intel can sort out the heat issues, reduce it to NW levels, and scale it >4 GHz this year, then its still very much a capable cpu. Not as good as hoped perhaps, not likely better than what AMD has or will have, but you make it sound like they just released a VIA C3 class chip consuming 120W. In benchmarks it certainly doesnt fare worse than eg Barton 3200+ did against P4C. Win some, lose some.. lose overall, but still roughly in the same league with a smaller (cheaper) core. Prescott is only 56% of the K8 in die size, don't forget that. 90nm might change that off course, but there arent any 90nm K8 yet.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 3, 2004 9:54:30 PM

easy

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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 3, 2004 9:54:41 PM

if you

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 3, 2004 9:54:50 PM

post many

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 3, 2004 9:55:04 PM

short nonsensical posts

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
February 3, 2004 10:07:24 PM

Quote:
Agreed, thats actually terrible scaling considering the architechure is up in the 3+Ghz range and performs worse than AMD cpus at circa 2Ghz.

This is not too bad for a just-now-launched core. Further steppings might improve scalability a lot. Plus, enhance performance, hopefully...
Quote:
Its starting to appear that Intels chosen path of marchitechure and high clocks is not going to work.
It has bad IPC and is not going to scale incredibly high as they need easily.

This might as easily have been taken from a post of a guy some 3 years ago, when Willamette was first introduced. Just to show you the irony... You could be right, but even if Intel's design choices have been the wrong ones to this date, they are very far from putting Intel to true shame. Prescott is not that slower than northwood at all, and it has more future than Northwood.
Quote:
intel has no place besides in Dells and with people who dont know better.

Right now, Intel has no places in the high-end. But Intel offers good deals on 2.6Cs or 2.8Cs right now; it wouldn't be stupid to buy those as mid-range processors. Anything higher, though, and AMD makes Intel look small. Buying a prescott now is probably not a good choice at all, but so was buying a willamette in the 1.7Ghz P4 days.
February 3, 2004 10:10:00 PM

That's a great opinion, I stand by it in perfect agreement. :smile:
February 3, 2004 10:37:02 PM

If I am exagerrating it is only par for the course considering the HYPE we had to listen to from these intel fanboys for months.

I might be *slightly* overweighing the A64 to the prescott... but not much more than reality.

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February 3, 2004 10:47:59 PM

Quote:
This might as easily have been taken from a post of a guy some 3 years ago, when Willamette was first introduced.


Hey, I WAS that guy!!
Though the issue is still debatable. I 'think' I see signs of intel running out of air on this type of method of performance improvement. I suppose its up to how well Intel improves their branch predictor in the future to make their path more viable(?). Thats my opinion (that AMDs path will be more fruitful), and not as well informed as your's or BB's. But I do consider myself a decent analyzer/commentator :smile: .

I'm not positive if my anti-willamette days were on THGC, but a quick click on my name revealed to me I have been here since September of 2001... I was probably posting more frequently on Anandtech at that time.

Yep, I'm an old battle hardend forum warrior :cool:

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