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Is there a way to prevent files from being dragged-and-dro..

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Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 11, 2005 3:55:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
from copying a file from a CD? thanks! Julia
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 11, 2005 6:00:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Julia Briggs wrote:
> Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
> from copying a file from a CD? thanks! Julia

Just like everything else - if the user can see the contents of the file -
they can copy it. Same is true for the Internet.. And it would be even
worse with a CD/DVD where the user has physical access to the media with the
data and unlimited time.

You are not the first to request this, for answers that other have gotten in
the past:

http://www.experts-exchange.com/Miscellaneous/Q_2065723...

http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadi...

http://www.webservertalk.com/archive93-2004-1-105070.ht...

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 11, 2005 12:15:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Julia Briggs wrote:
>
> Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
> from copying a file from a CD? thanks! Julia

While you haven't provided a whole lot in the way of details, exactly
what type of CDs are you trying to protect? Music CDs? Data CDs?

If they're files that *you* have burned to CD, you might consider
some type of files encryption.

Google "cd copy protection" and/or "cd encryption" for more answers.

Notan
Related resources
September 11, 2005 5:58:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Julia Briggs wrote:

> Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
> from copying a file from a CD? thanks! Julia

When asking such a question you should post what OS you are talking about...

Im
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 11, 2005 5:58:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Julia Briggs wrote:
> Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
> from copying a file from a CD?

Imhotep wrote:
> When asking such a question you should post what OS you are talking
> about...

Looking at the groups Julia posted to:

- alt.computer.security
- comp.publish.cdrom.software
- microsoft.public.windowsxp.general

I'd assume Windows XP - but you are correct - she should have stated that in
her post.

You've now tweaked my interest however.. Is there a way in one OS or another
to do this when you do not necessarily know the target OS of the person
receiving the media from which you do not want them to be able to copy the
files from yet still be able to use the files as intended?

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
September 11, 2005 6:34:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Shenan Stanley wrote:

> Julia Briggs wrote:
>> Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
>> from copying a file from a CD?ile
>
> Imhotep wrote:
>> When asking such a question you should post what OS you are talking
>> about...
>
> Looking at the groups Julia posted to:
>
> - alt.computer.security
> - comp.publish.cdrom.software
> - microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
>
> I'd assume Windows XP - but you are correct - she should have stated that
> in her post.
>
> You've now tweaked my interest however.. Is there a way in one OS or
> another to do this when you do not necessarily know the target OS of the
> person receiving the media from which you do not want them to be able to
> copy the files from yet still be able to use the files as intended?
>

So, you want the user to be able to read the file but not copy it? If so, I
am not sure that is possible with the standard OS tools (file permissions,
etc) because to read something implies the ability to copy something. You
might have to insert some kind of middle layer (between the logical file
and the user) to accomplish this.

Let me know what you find out. That was an interesting question...

Im
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 12, 2005 12:50:29 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software (More info?)

Imhotep wrote:

> Shenan Stanley wrote:
>
>> (snip)
>>
>>You've now tweaked my interest however.. Is there a way in one OS or
>>another to do this when you do not necessarily know the target OS of the
>>person receiving the media from which you do not want them to be able to
>>copy the files from yet still be able to use the files as intended?
>
>
> So, you want the user to be able to read the file but not copy it? If so, I
> am not sure that is possible with the standard OS tools (file permissions,
> etc) because to read something implies the ability to copy something. You
> might have to insert some kind of middle layer (between the logical file
> and the user) to accomplish this.
>
> Let me know what you find out. That was an interesting question...
>
> Im
Hi,

If you can read a file, you can copy it as well, no way to stop that...

There is one exception to this:

Microsoft's "Windows Rights Management Services" (RMS) is an
option for documents and e-mails produced by Microsoft Office
2003 Professional (a pretty "heavy" solution though):

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies...




--
torgeir, Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of
the 1328 page Scripting Guide:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/default.m...
September 12, 2005 12:50:30 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software (More info?)

Torgeir Bakken (MVP) wrote:

> Imhotep wrote:
>
>> Shenan Stanley wrote:
>>
>>> (snip)
>>>
>>>You've now tweaked my interest however.. Is there a way in one OS or
>>>another to do this when you do not necessarily know the target OS of the
>>>person receiving the media from which you do not want them to be able to
>>>copy the files from yet still be able to use the files as intended?
>>
>>
>> So, you want the user to be able to read the file but not copy it? If so,
>> I am not sure that is possible with the standard OS tools (file
>> permissions, etc) because to read something implies the ability to copy
>> something. You might have to insert some kind of middle layer (between
>> the logical file and the user) to accomplish this.
>>
>> Let me know what you find out. That was an interesting question...
>>
>> Im
> Hi,
>
> If you can read a file, you can copy it as well, no way to stop that...
>
> There is one exception to this:
>
> Microsoft's "Windows Rights Management Services" (RMS) is an
> option for documents and e-mails produced by Microsoft Office
> 2003 Professional (a pretty "heavy" solution though):
>
>
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies...
>

This type of technology is nothing more than the "middleware" I spoke of.
Even worse it appears to be proprietary...

Im
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 12, 2005 12:50:31 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Imhotep wrote:
>
> Torgeir Bakken (MVP) wrote:
>
> > Imhotep wrote:
> >
> >> Shenan Stanley wrote:
> >>
> >>> (snip)
> >>>
> >>>You've now tweaked my interest however.. Is there a way in one OS or
> >>>another to do this when you do not necessarily know the target OS of the
> >>>person receiving the media from which you do not want them to be able to
> >>>copy the files from yet still be able to use the files as intended?
> >>
> >>
> >> So, you want the user to be able to read the file but not copy it? If so,
> >> I am not sure that is possible with the standard OS tools (file
> >> permissions, etc) because to read something implies the ability to copy
> >> something. You might have to insert some kind of middle layer (between
> >> the logical file and the user) to accomplish this.
> >>
> >> Let me know what you find out. That was an interesting question...
> >>
> >> Im
> > Hi,
> >
> > If you can read a file, you can copy it as well, no way to stop that...
> >
> > There is one exception to this:
> >
> > Microsoft's "Windows Rights Management Services" (RMS) is an
> > option for documents and e-mails produced by Microsoft Office
> > 2003 Professional (a pretty "heavy" solution though):
> >
> >
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies...
> >
>
> This type of technology is nothing more than the "middleware" I spoke of.
> Even worse it appears to be proprietary...

Have a look at http://cd-lock.com/.

Notan
September 12, 2005 3:53:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On 10 Sep 2005 23:55:50 -0700, "Julia Briggs" <julia4_me@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
>from copying a file from a CD? thanks! Julia

What about using PGP or similar and writing encrypted files to a CD
then e mail the key. Won't matter then if files are dragged and
dropped off the CD they are useless without a key. Actually I am not
sure its possible to do this I have never tried it, don't see why not
though on the surface.

Jonah
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 12, 2005 10:35:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.comp.periphs.cdr (More info?)

"Julia Briggs" <julia4_me@yahoo.com> writes:

>I think it's going to be impossible to implement any sort broad
>reaching protection with every OS -- because it's too late. That is,

Sure. Burn the CD. even a few hundred degrees should do.
A CD is MEANT usually to be read. If a program can read it, it can copy it.
This is like asking "I am publishing a book. Is there any way I can prevent
the readers from copying out phrases from the book?"


>too many operating systems have existed for too many years, at
>different version levels, with mass userbases, that such a feature
>wouldn't deter someone from popping a CD into a older machine? .....
>but what if some modification to the CD could cause it to error on
>"most" operating systems to deter casual duplication of files?


As I said, make it unreadable to all.


>Not quite the same, but see:
>http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_protect_c...

>Apparently someone figured out a minor edit to the CD that causes it to
>copy a blank version of itself using popular copiers like NERO and
>EasyCD.

>No real 100% way to protect a CD against all attacks in this world, but
>maybe some other method like this can deter 99% of people from
>drag-and-dropping a file away from the CD folder. I know some people
>drag and drop away from CD folders into media players -- but I imagine
>there is a way.

>For the life of me I can't find the thread, but I clearly read in a old
>2000 posting that, I believe it was Sony, had disc-copy protection on
>some music CD's that prevented the user from drag-and-dropping files
>away from the CD!

>......Any existing commercial CD protection tools or ideas come to mind
>by anyone to achieve this feat? Julia
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 12, 2005 11:17:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Seems to me like including a virtual machine along with the files might do
it :-)


"Julia Briggs" <julia4_me@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1126421750.358165.299080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
> from copying a file from a CD? thanks! Julia
>
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 13, 2005 5:44:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.comp.periphs.cdr (More info?)

On 12 Sep 2005 11:21:37 -0700, Julia Briggs <julia4_me@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think it's going to be impossible to implement any sort broad
> reaching protection with every OS -- because it's too late. That is,
> too many operating systems have existed for too many years, at
> different version levels, with mass userbases, that such a feature
> wouldn't deter someone from popping a CD into a older machine? .....
> but what if some modification to the CD could cause it to error on
> "most" operating systems to deter casual duplication of files?

All music CDs require software support for "drag and drop" of music
files because there really is no file system or files on a music CD.
Things have evolved so that the software is more closely integrated
and you don't notice the complexity.

IMO even if newer and more complex protection methods are used, if an
expert learns to crack the protection, there are few technical obstacles
to making it easy for a "drag and drop" implementation to be produced
that even casual Windows fans can use.

Yes there are legal obstacles to distributing such software; namely the
anti circumvention provisions of the DMCA, but none of that seems to have
kept software for copying DVDs out of the hands of the public.

Isaac
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 16, 2005 10:43:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

I am hoping if Winged or another super-brain out there can respond to
the possibility he suggests below. Thank you so much. Kindest regards,
Julia

#
Winged/
Manually editing TOC for the file concerned to indicate a billion byte
file (references address space not physically on CD) stops many casual
copiers, though if someone is used to such methods the CD can still be
copied by the astute. This can cause other issues depending on how you
use the file.

You can call the direct address from the disk without going through the
TOC but if you call the file via the TOC an error will occur. This
also requires the data to be written to the specific address location.

To make it more difficult to duplicate the disk you can create an
inappropriate sector length that will cause copiers like Roxio and Nero
to fail, but you can induce incompatibility with non-multi-session
capable drives.

These methods require direct editing of the master media.

Winged
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 17, 2005 10:06:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Here's an idea .. try "Google", "CD protection" ... 1st hit
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 18, 2005 3:11:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Julia Briggs wrote:
> I am hoping if Winged or another super-brain out there can respond to
> the possibility he suggests below. Thank you so much. Kindest regards,
> Julia
>
> #
> Winged/
> Manually editing TOC for the file concerned to indicate a billion byte
> file (references address space not physically on CD) stops many casual
> copiers, though if someone is used to such methods the CD can still be
> copied by the astute. This can cause other issues depending on how you
> use the file.
>
> You can call the direct address from the disk without going through the
> TOC but if you call the file via the TOC an error will occur. This
> also requires the data to be written to the specific address location.
>
> To make it more difficult to duplicate the disk you can create an
> inappropriate sector length that will cause copiers like Roxio and Nero
> to fail, but you can induce incompatibility with non-multi-session
> capable drives.
>
> These methods require direct editing of the master media.
>
> Winged
>
Well the billion byte file for example can not be dragged and
dropped..error will occur. But as stated the usefulness of the file is
limited as the address space must be directly accessed.

The second method does not prevent drag and drop but makes media
duplication much more difficult especially if programmatic calls are
made in the software.

Another method to prevent drag and drop of the file is to remove it from
the TOC. This file can be direct accessed by direct addressing the
location directly however it does not prevent disk duplication, and
standard file access methods that go though the TOC will fail.

I know of no method that would prohibit a legal TOC file from being
dragged and dropped in any of the various CD formats.

Winged

Winged
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
September 19, 2005 11:43:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.computer.security,comp.publish.cdrom.software,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

If file(s) on a CD or DVD configured to auto-load is converted to a
billion byte+, would it run? Assuming Windows platforms here.
!