ultimate gaming machine

[Lucca]

hi i'm considering buying a complete new system, and i'd like your opinion on what to buy. I use my computer mostly for gaming and sometimes for encoding divX (and rarely for work ). i thought of buying amd athlon XP 3000 barton on asus a7n8x deluxe, with a sATA disk, and then radeon graph card. That was some time ago though, and now i heard good things about xeon cpu, and then others say that i might as well get a pIV for the same price... so, what do you think would make the ultimate gaming machine yet affordable (let's say, about 1000 euro, screen not included). (for UK; about 800 pounds, for US; 1100USD)... also, can flatscreens give the same quality with fast moving images and fps? i mean the total flat screens, not those screens who's case are just as big, yet with a flat surface. All help would be appreciated!

 

[TheRod]

so, what do you think would make the ultimate gaming machine

Have you read recent CPU reviews? Athlon 64 3000+ is actually one of the best gaming platform for the price. And it's affordable too!

A64 3000+ (205$US on pricewatch.com)
<A HREF="http://www.pricewatch.com/1/3/5867-1.htm" target="_new">http://www.pricewatch.com/1/3/5867-1.htm</A>
A64 Motherboard (as low as 78$US)
<A HREF="http://castle.pricewatch.com/search/searchmc.idq?cr=athlon+754&qc="ATHLON"*+AND+"754"*+AND+@ctd+2&i=2&ct=Computer&c=Motherboards&mi=N&m=N]pricewatch" target="_new">http://castle.pricewatch.com/search/searchmc.idq?cr=athlon+754&qc="ATHLON"*+AND+"754"*+AND+@ctd+2&i=2&ct=Computer&c=Motherboards&mi=N&m=N]pricewatch</A>

I'm pretty sure this platform can fit in your budget. And for the LCD monitor... I would not get one yet for gaming. There is still some problems with ACTION/SHOOTER games. If you mainly play RTS or NON high FPS or movement games you will be satisfied, but ACTION/SHOOTER needs fast redraw and screen refresh and affordable LCD monitor don't offer this yet!

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Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?

 

[phial]

A64's make a very nice gaming rig, and are cheap considering what they are supposed to be competing against


if you live in Canada, sadly things are not like that here (currently an a64 3000+ is around the same price as a P4C 3ghz. ouch)


even if you wanna go cheaper, you cant go wrong with a 2500+ and a good Nforce2 motherboard. its like sometimes even less than half the price of its Intel counterpart (Intel is faster, but the price/performance value just isnt there imo), and altho the 2 platforms arent equal in all areas, gaming is the 2500+'s strong point.

)... also, can flatscreens give the same quality with fast moving images and fps?

No. even the best flatscreens that i have seen (1200$ ones) still "ghost" like crazy. Move the mouse quickly over the screen and it stands out like a sore thumb. personally, i cant stand it, drives me insane.. id take a 400$ 21" CRT even if somoene gave me a LCD for free (id sell it heh)
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[Lucca]

so you both would take the A64 3000+ thingy... would you go for the radeon series, or rather take the GF FX series (or GF4)?
if others think other cpu's are better, please post the more you say, the more i learn

i'm not suffering from insanity... i'm enjoying every minute from it.

 

[pauldh]

Since knowbody else has, I'm going to offer another opinion. There is no denying a XP2500+ NF2/ (Abit Nf7-S is a nice one) is the value champ. I think an Athlon XP3000+ is a waste to be honest as the XP2500+ will OC to that easy. If you really want to overclock, the mobile Xp2500+ is a great $100 US chip. I have one stable at 2.6GHz in a Soltek NF2.

That said, despite what AMD fans rave about with XP's, the P4 "C" chips are clearly superior to them. a P4 2.6C is going to be on par for gaming and ahead in other areas compared to an XP3000+ They are also priced about the same. Read <A HREF="http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030623/p4_3200-07.html" target="_new"> THIS REVIEW </A> and many others on the net and you'll see the Athlon XP's are not equal to P4 - C's.

I am not a Fanboy either way. I build way more AMD systems than Intel because of Price/Value. But when people have been requesting high end systems, I see where an i865pe / P4 800 bus system fits into their budget. An IS7 with a P4 2.6C or 2.8C is still a nice system. Once you get to P4 3.0 GHz and above, I agree that A64's are looking like fantastic Gamers. But I have not caught the A64 buzz yet and will wait for more/better mobos. I've just had such good results with the Abit IS7's. I have nothing against A64, just haven't tried one yet personally.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[phial]

i guess id have to say my opinion about the P4C might not be as valid as i thought, sinse I have not been paying attention to prices as of late. just checked out a <A HREF="http://www.ncix.com" target="_new">store</A> and the p4 2.8c is only 100$ dollars more than the 2500+.. now, considering how much either would overclock.. id say its worth the extra 100 bux for sure. in fact, if i had of known the price drops recently , i would have saved up for an extra week and gotten the P4 but i already ordered an athlon mobo heh


so yea, if you wanna spend the extra 150 bux its worth it i guess. especially sinse you sounds like your kinda new to the scene, and probably wont be doing much overclocking at least at first because the P4 is of course faster at stock speeds , the 2500+'s only real value is for overclocking

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[phial]

. would you go for the radeon series, or rather take the GF FX series (or GF4)?

this is a touchy subject, as most of the experts in teh area are 15 year olds nowadays. sometimes youll get 10 poeple ganging up on someone, which would obviously make that person look wrong even if they were perfectly correct in wha tthey were saying

let me put it like this. ATi has technology that the nVidia doesnt even touch. im talking about direx9, the platform that most games will be created on. sure, the GFFX is hella quick in most games now but in 6 months there will be a whole new generation of games coming out as developers catch on and from what ive seen and read the last 1.5 years, ATis diretx9 performance is basically a generation ahead of nVidia. definately someting to keep in mind.

theres all kinds of other reasons why i prefer radeons over the gffx series but i wont get into that as the trolls will probably emerge to club me to death

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[speeduk]

Cant beat a 3200 athlon 64.

<A HREF="http://www.ec.eclipse.co.uk/230mhzht.JPG" target="_new">http://www.ec.eclipse.co.uk/230mhzht.JPG</A>

<A HREF="http://www.ec.eclipse.co.uk/san2300mhz.JPG" target="_new">http://www.ec.eclipse.co.uk/san2300mhz.JPG</A>

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7633942" target="_new">http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7633942</A>

If only i had a better gfx card.

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7584476" target="_new"> My rig </A>

 

[TheRod]

if you live in Canada, sadly things are not like that here (currently an a64 3000+ is around the same price as a P4C 3ghz. ouch)

Humm...

Here is the price from local stores near Montreal :
A64 3000+ (348$CA)
P4C 3.0GHz (355$CA)
A64 3200+ (429$CA)
P4C 3.2GHz (439$CA)
A64 3400+ (650$CA)

I think the price is fair! Take in consideration that these processor are 64 bit ready and their performance are equivalent to P4C/E performance.

--
Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?

 

[phial]

but 3 hours south of me, people are getting the a64 3000+ for like half the price i do, and yes thats taking into consideration the currency conversion from USD to CAD

but, all this isnt relevant if this dood doesnt even live in canada

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[phial]

you didnt include of the P4c bargraphs in the Sandra benchmark dude

i dont see what those pics prove, other than the fact that you own one lol



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[pauldh]

Actually it proves an overclocked $100 Mobile XP2500 scores far better than his overclocked Athlon 64 3200+ :lol:
Here ya go, and the P4's are included in these graphs. <A HREF="http://www.ravedesigns.com/images/sisoftsandra.JPG " target="_new"> SiSoft Sandra </A>

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[speeduk]

Ok so why did i spend my hard earned cash on this nice and fast cpu?

Are you just happy that you get higher sandra scores or do you honestly think that ur 2.6ghz barton is faster than my 2.28ghz A64 in proper applications and games?

In 3dmark I've seen 2.8ghz bartons and a 9800pro (stock speed) struggle to get 20k. My 2.5ghz barton @ 209fsb could only get 18.5k with my 9700pro oced to over 9800pro speeds


<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7584476" target="_new"> My rig </A>

 

[speeduk]

you didnt include of the P4c bargraphs in the Sandra benchmark dude

i dont see what those pics prove, other than the fact that you own one lol

I was only trying to prove that they can overclock if the original poster is interested. Why do you guys jump on someone so easily?

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7584476" target="_new"> My rig </A>

 

[speeduk]

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7584476" target="_new"> My rig </A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by speeduk on 03/07/04 10:15 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[TheRod]

So we will buy this CPU over the NET!

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Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?

 

[pauldh]

Cant beat a 3200 athlon 64.

Well, i just read your comment quoted above, and then looked at your picture links that you posted as your proof that nothing beats an A64, and found it quite amuzing that an overclocked XP2500+ actually did beat your score. And since it had been brought up, I included the top reference scores which you had left out of your pics.

Ok so why did i spend my hard earned cash on this nice and fast cpu?

I'm not sure actually. Maybe because so many people rave about the A64 here that you thought it was worth a whole heapin load of your hard earned cash. I personally think it is too early to be buying the A64 now. But then again, I upgrade more often than most people. Once the new boards come out, if more 64 bit applications come out and the A64 really shines over anything Intel puts out, I'll consider an A64 based system. Especially one with PCIe. But Relax, you have a very fast CPU. Hopefully it will last as long as people claim it will. I personally won't spend over $200 on a cpu anymore. Just not worth it in my opinion. You get bragging rights for a few months maybe, but that's about it.

Are you just happy that you get higher sandra scores or do you honestly think that ur 2.6ghz barton is faster than my 2.28ghz A64 in proper applications and games?

Sure I was happy that my $100 chip spanked a chip costing 3 times as much. And weren't you also OC'in your chip as you stated? Plus I was amused that you chose to post SiSoft Sandra pictures where your chip looked to be the top performer to support your statement. I'd post 3dmark2001 scores, but I'm afraid you got me as the Ti4200 I am using is far behind your R9700 Pro.

No I doubt that my mobile XP2500+ can keep up with your chip in everything. The A64's are very fast chips. But for 3 times the price they better be. Shoot your CPU cost as much as my CPU, heatsink, motherboard, and video card combined. You had an NF2/ XP2500+ and you upgraded now to an A64 system? You must be raking in the bucks or really love 3dmarks to take that plunge right now. IMO you had a nice system and should have waited to upgrade.

21K 3dmarks is a great score no doubt. You can be proud of it. And relax, you have a nice system. Enjoy it. Just watch comments like "nothing beats an A64" when you post scores that can be beat at 1/3 the price. Also in some areas P4-C's are ahead of A64's also. I have nothing against the A64 whatsoever, I just think better mobos are coming. Right now for that kind of money, I would buy a P4 2.8C or 3.0C and pocket the extra cash, as I feel the current A64 motherboards aren't up to the same standard as a Springdale, Canterwood, or even NF2.



ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 03/07/04 10:28 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[pauldh]

What mobo did you order?


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[pauldh]

If you do go with an NF2/Athlon XP, the Abit NF7-S Rev. 2.0 is also a great board. Has LAN, SATA, Soundstorm, and is a OC'in champ.

P4 route, the ABIT IS7 has SATA also and is a great board.

A64, sorry can't help you except to say I'd personally wait at least until Socket 939 is released and tested.



ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[speeduk]

TBH I think ive never seen so much bs in my life. Ok you know what? Maybe I wasnt struggling to play X2 on my barton rig - even @ 2424mhz or at least not getting nice framerates in big battles.

Maybe spellforce didnt play like crap when more than 20 units followed me. Maybe I didnt have to run my cpu with the case side off and a big expensive cooler to keep it cool with a house fan blowing over it.

You can throw sandra benches at me all day - did you not get why I posted them in the first place? SANDSA IS NOT A REAL PERFORMACE INDICATOR UNLESS YOU COMPARE THE SAME CPU!

Before on my 2.4ghz barton I could play GP4 just about smooth with max details, 4xAA and 4xAF @ 28FPS. Now I can play it super smooth with 6xAA and 8xAF @ 51FPS!!!!! Almost double the framerates with higher gfx detail.

Spellforce now never drops below 30FPS even with huge army following me where as on the barton it would struggle with more than 20 or 30 units on - and I mean like 15fps in some scenes or worse.

X2 is now a hell of a lot smoother. Got an extra 20fps which is really essential in this game. FPS used to drop to like 15 in some scenes but now its a hell of a lot smoother and doesnt lag half as much.

I think people need to learn more about what they are "dissing" before they make comments that make them look a fool.

When I posted those sandra shots I had no idea that someone would flame me for not beating their 2.6ghz Axp. So I got a little excited that i got a 300mhz oc on my new chip - which is a little hard to do if you don't know what ur doing and saw this thread and thought how amazed i am with my cpu and how it performs in games. So having no game benches to post i posted sandra. Maybe ill just shut up next time and advice people to buy mobile 2500's....

What are you gonna flame me for next?

Original poster just buy a mobile 2500 - hope it overclocks to 2.6ghz and avoid athlon 64's becaue 0mg they are so slow at sandra.

ROFL

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7584476" target="_new"> My rig </A>

 

[speeduk]

You can be proud of it. And relax, you have a nice system. Enjoy it. Just watch comments like "nothing beats an A64"

IM ON ABOUT REAL GAMING PERFORMACE FFS!

If all you care about is sandra then fine buy a 2500 and go w0w 0mg i 0wn a A64.

Wake up dude even @ 2.8ghz a barton is no match for a stock A64 (maybe can make the 3000 worry a bit).

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7584476" target="_new"> My rig </A>

 

[hogfather]

Well if you're talking 'REAL SPEED PERFORMANCE FFS!!' then gp4 is a terrible example - its not a benchmarking game, it can run like a dog on the exact same system that you get 40fps, for no reason.

Also, if sandra isnt a good benchmarking tool, why did YOU post it in the first place?! :|

XP2000, 256ddr 2100ram, GF4 MX440, XP Pro

 

[pauldh]

Also, if sandra isnt a good benchmarking tool, why did YOU post it in the first place?! :|.

My point exactly. He posted the score right after claiming nothing beats an A64. I was just taking advantage of his mistake to have some fun and prove his statement wrong at the same time. Just look how defensive he's getting. It's hilarious. Want to show OC'MHz, that shows up in 3dmark2001se. Want to say hey my A64 overclocks, look... post wcpuid results. Want to brag about your A64... post a benchmark score. That's what he did. Not my fault he picked a bad one.

And as for his last post where he is trying to save face, all I can say is he must have had a screwed up barton system, or maybe found a MAGIC A64. ROFL, if you play any games better not buy anything but an A64! They better put it right on the game box under minimum system requirements. Shoot, AMD better stop producing the XP line. Intel, bye bye... obsolete! AHHHH, we better get this word out quick instead of allowing anyone else to build a system that can't possibly play games. LOL

Anyway, justify your purchase any way you want. Defend your synthetic benchie scores YOU posted by saying you only care about real game fps. Buy FRAPS and benchie away. Do what you want. I won't argure with you, Your big talk isn't hurting my FPS. Games are running smooth here. SO why should I care.



ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 03/08/04 07:59 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Lucca]

loads of replies, and fast
i'm not new to gaming or to pc, but i do am new to all this benchmarking stuff and judging pc's... my current pc was like... ok, need pc... surf to dell... buy pIII... done. but now i'd like a good system for gaming specifically. It sure looks like there is no simple answer wether amd or intel is better for it. No one spoke of that xeon cpu, is that because no one uses it, or because it's less good for gaming?

i'm not suffering from insanity... i'm enjoying every minute from it.

 

[P4Man]

xeon is utterly useless for gaming. Its slower than a P4 because of the slower fsb, yet it is much more expensive. It only makes sense in dual or quad cpu workstations and servers. P4's do not support SMP, you need a xeon for a dual cpu machine. If you're not going dual, ignore xeon (and opteron).

as for the Athlon XP versus P4C versus A64 disussion; everyone is right

If you want really cheap, consider a 2500+ barton, overclock it if you like. If you want a bit more speed, a 2.8C P4 would be a good choice for the money, if you want ultimate gaming speed for just a little more money, get a A64, and be ready to run Far Cry in 64 bit mode when windows ships later this year.

IMHO, the A64 3000+ is currently the best money you can spend on a gaming rig. Its 64 bit capabilities are the icing on the cake, but even in 32 bit software, its an awesome gaming chip for a very fair price. Don't take my word for it though, check out the reviews yourselve.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =