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tz gone mad :-(

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August 12, 2005 10:26:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Hi everyone

I knew it would happen one day, I sometimes think I'm the only one who
had his twilight zone running flawlessly (didn't even have to change a
lamp) for the last 6 years. This morning, it tells me "check fuse f 114
and f 115". I did, they're both fine. Then I took out F 115, it starts
up and then goes crazy, the clock is running constantly, it fires the
autoplunger, then cranks up the volume to max , goes through the menu
by itself, then fires all flippers three times extremely fast, then
goes into attract mode for half a second and on and on. Doorbuttons
don't work, start doesn't, flippers, don't.
Reinserting F 115 and taking out F 114 doesn't change anything, both
out, the same weird behaviour. All the usual sources can't help me,
seems like something is shortened? very hard to diagnose anything
without access to the switch menu.

i appreciate any sort of help!
kind regards, pascal

More about : mad

Anonymous
August 12, 2005 11:43:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

sounds to me like "you've entered the Twilight Zone" doo doo doo doo
doo doo doo doo...good luck...
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 2:14:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Pascal,

I don't know. But, it sounds to me like you took out the fuses with the
power on and tricked the game to going into cycle test.

--
PinTed


pascal wrote:
> Hi everyone
>
> I knew it would happen one day, I sometimes think I'm the only one who
> had his twilight zone running flawlessly (didn't even have to change a
> lamp) for the last 6 years. This morning, it tells me "check fuse f 114
> and f 115". I did, they're both fine. Then I took out F 115, it starts
> up and then goes crazy, the clock is running constantly, it fires the
> autoplunger, then cranks up the volume to max , goes through the menu
> by itself, then fires all flippers three times extremely fast, then
> goes into attract mode for half a second and on and on. Doorbuttons
> don't work, start doesn't, flippers, don't.
> Reinserting F 115 and taking out F 114 doesn't change anything, both
> out, the same weird behaviour. All the usual sources can't help me,
> seems like something is shortened? very hard to diagnose anything
> without access to the switch menu.
>
> i appreciate any sort of help!
> kind regards, pascal
Related resources
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 2:54:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

definately sounds like a CPU issue.
test all your voltages on the driver boad to make sure they are right at the
test points. then take out the CPU and look for shorts, maybe reseat all
the socketed chips and inspet each connector and look for open/cracked
solder joints.
check those and post back
Dan

"pascal" <pascalwyss@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123853164.690305.179410@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi everyone
>
> I knew it would happen one day, I sometimes think I'm the only one who
> had his twilight zone running flawlessly (didn't even have to change a
> lamp) for the last 6 years. This morning, it tells me "check fuse f 114
> and f 115". I did, they're both fine. Then I took out F 115, it starts
> up and then goes crazy, the clock is running constantly, it fires the
> autoplunger, then cranks up the volume to max , goes through the menu
> by itself, then fires all flippers three times extremely fast, then
> goes into attract mode for half a second and on and on. Doorbuttons
> don't work, start doesn't, flippers, don't.
> Reinserting F 115 and taking out F 114 doesn't change anything, both
> out, the same weird behaviour. All the usual sources can't help me,
> seems like something is shortened? very hard to diagnose anything
> without access to the switch menu.
>
> i appreciate any sort of help!
> kind regards, pascal
>
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 3:28:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Clay's guide has lots of info on this topic.. Check
http://www.marvin3m.com/wpc/index1.htm#f114f115

GRY

"PinTed" <Pinted@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1123866871.999595.161510@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Pascal,
>
> I don't know. But, it sounds to me like you took out the fuses with the
> power on and tricked the game to going into cycle test.
>
> --
> PinTed
>
>
> pascal wrote:
>> Hi everyone
>>
>> I knew it would happen one day, I sometimes think I'm the only one who
>> had his twilight zone running flawlessly (didn't even have to change a
>> lamp) for the last 6 years. This morning, it tells me "check fuse f 114
>> and f 115". I did, they're both fine. Then I took out F 115, it starts
>> up and then goes crazy, the clock is running constantly, it fires the
>> autoplunger, then cranks up the volume to max , goes through the menu
>> by itself, then fires all flippers three times extremely fast, then
>> goes into attract mode for half a second and on and on. Doorbuttons
>> don't work, start doesn't, flippers, don't.
>> Reinserting F 115 and taking out F 114 doesn't change anything, both
>> out, the same weird behaviour. All the usual sources can't help me,
>> seems like something is shortened? very hard to diagnose anything
>> without access to the switch menu.
>>
>> i appreciate any sort of help!
>> kind regards, pascal
>
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 6:01:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I hope you aren't taking out fuses with the power on.

If the fuses check fine with an ohm meter when removed from the game, then
check the bridge rectifier associated with them, it's probably bad. LTG :) 

"pascal" <pascalwyss@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123853164.690305.179410@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi everyone
>
> I knew it would happen one day, I sometimes think I'm the only one who
> had his twilight zone running flawlessly (didn't even have to change a
> lamp) for the last 6 years. This morning, it tells me "check fuse f 114
> and f 115". I did, they're both fine. Then I took out F 115, it starts
> up and then goes crazy, the clock is running constantly, it fires the
> autoplunger, then cranks up the volume to max , goes through the menu
> by itself, then fires all flippers three times extremely fast, then
> goes into attract mode for half a second and on and on. Doorbuttons
> don't work, start doesn't, flippers, don't.
> Reinserting F 115 and taking out F 114 doesn't change anything, both
> out, the same weird behaviour. All the usual sources can't help me,
> seems like something is shortened? very hard to diagnose anything
> without access to the switch menu.
>
> i appreciate any sort of help!
> kind regards, pascal
>
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 7:28:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

You might need to replace one or both bridge rectifiers. My Funhouse pin
said to check these fuses...I think. It's been a few years. But the fuses
were fine. The board in the pin had some poorly installed bridge recs,
terrible solder job, all over traces. I contacted the owner, we swapped
boards through USPS priority mail, and in less than a week things were
cleared up. The game was supposed to be working but it was an Ebay
purchase, so anything's possible. Anyway, since your game was working, test
the bridge recs and replace if necessary. Could be that simple.

Josh
http://www.pingeek.com

"pascal" <pascalwyss@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123853164.690305.179410@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi everyone
>
> I knew it would happen one day, I sometimes think I'm the only one who
> had his twilight zone running flawlessly (didn't even have to change a
> lamp) for the last 6 years. This morning, it tells me "check fuse f 114
> and f 115". I did, they're both fine. Then I took out F 115, it starts
> up and then goes crazy, the clock is running constantly, it fires the
> autoplunger, then cranks up the volume to max , goes through the menu
> by itself, then fires all flippers three times extremely fast, then
> goes into attract mode for half a second and on and on. Doorbuttons
> don't work, start doesn't, flippers, don't.
> Reinserting F 115 and taking out F 114 doesn't change anything, both
> out, the same weird behaviour. All the usual sources can't help me,
> seems like something is shortened? very hard to diagnose anything
> without access to the switch menu.
>
> i appreciate any sort of help!
> kind regards, pascal
>
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 8:45:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

"pascal" <pascalwyss@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123853164.690305.179410@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> i appreciate any sort of help!

A fellow pinhead had similar problems just recently: a TZ got crazy, asked
to check fuses F114 ja F115, went into tests and shot balls to the
playfield. The problem seemed intermittent at first, and it could be
reproduced by knocking gently the CPU board and its wires. The +12V test led
on the driver board seemed to blink as well, hinting there's a short
somewhere. Finally, removing the CPU board revealed a backbox ground wire
hanging loose behind it. Every now and then it would make contact with the
back of the CPU card, resulting a short and strange behaviour of the game.

The ground wire is supposed to go between the backbox wall and the metal
plate that the boards are attached to. The mounting of the plate has gotten
loose in this case, and the ground wire had gotten out. Fixing this fixed
the problem alltogether.

Check it out, hope this helps. (I'm basically translating this from his
forum post elsewhere)

--Jarkko
(please remove .nospamplease and .invalid if you reply by email)
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 4:21:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

"Pin Geek" <josh.kaplan1@comcast.net> wrote in
news:ydidnS2mINrpZWHfRVn-rg@comcast.com:

> You might need to replace one or both bridge rectifiers. My Funhouse
> pin said to check these fuses...I think. It's been a few years. But
> the fuses were fine. The board in the pin had some poorly installed
> bridge recs, terrible solder job, all over traces. I contacted the
> owner, we swapped boards through USPS priority mail, and in less than
> a week things were cleared up. The game was supposed to be working
> but it was an Ebay purchase, so anything's possible. Anyway, since
> your game was working, test the bridge recs and replace if necessary.
> Could be that simple.
>
> Josh
> http://www.pingeek.com
>
> "pascal" <pascalwyss@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1123853164.690305.179410@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Hi everyone
>>
>> I knew it would happen one day, I sometimes think I'm the only one
>> who had his twilight zone running flawlessly (didn't even have to
>> change a lamp) for the last 6 years. This morning, it tells me "check
>> fuse f 114 and f 115". I did, they're both fine. Then I took out F
>> 115, it starts up and then goes crazy, the clock is running
>> constantly, it fires the autoplunger, then cranks up the volume to
>> max , goes through the menu by itself, then fires all flippers three
>> times extremely fast, then goes into attract mode for half a second
>> and on and on. Doorbuttons don't work, start doesn't, flippers,
>> don't. Reinserting F 115 and taking out F 114 doesn't change
>> anything, both out, the same weird behaviour. All the usual sources
>> can't help me, seems like something is shortened? very hard to
>> diagnose anything without access to the switch menu.
>>
>> i appreciate any sort of help!
>> kind regards, pascal
>>
>
>
>

Check for battery acid damage on the CPU. I bought an IJ from an op
that would go into diagnostics by itself, volume changes, and all kinds
of odd things going on. I ended up replacing U16 - U20 plus a bunch of
resistors on that one and then it was good as new.

Bill Fugle
August 13, 2005 1:13:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

hi everyone

thanks for all the hints. I found out that i'm missing +12v, LED 1 is
not lit, looks like a bad U20, doesn't it? how can I make sure that's
the reason? I didn't have game resets, and if it goes crazy, all
flippers fire at once, no problem there. besides, no fuse is blown, so
I guess the bridge rectifiers are alright. But now: how can i tell
whether U20 is bad? Can this happen betwenn a turn off/on-cycle?
That is very bad news for me, since I'm not good enough at soldering
chips on the cpu board :-( But at least I'm approaching the solution in
small steps.

kind regards, Pascal
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 1:28:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

If LED1 is not lit, it means 12v is not there, so problem is on the
power driver board, not the CPU. The way to go now is find where you
are losing 12v.I assume LED6 for your 18v supply is lit? This means
power supply is ok to this point and you have either a open board
connection or an open part between there and the 12v supply. From LED6
if lit 18v goes to D1, then D2, then Q2 LM7812 left lead, then dropped
to 12v on Q2 right lead, to F115. A DC meter should quickly reveal
where voltage is lost. Just turn the game on, measure these points to
find which part is open. My guess would be either Q2 LM7812 is bad, or
an open board between these small parts.
pascal wrote:
> hi everyone
>
> thanks for all the hints. I found out that i'm missing +12v, LED 1 is
> not lit, looks like a bad U20, doesn't it? how can I make sure that's
> the reason? I didn't have game resets, and if it goes crazy, all
> flippers fire at once, no problem there. besides, no fuse is blown, so
> I guess the bridge rectifiers are alright. But now: how can i tell
> whether U20 is bad? Can this happen betwenn a turn off/on-cycle?
> That is very bad news for me, since I'm not good enough at soldering
> chips on the cpu board :-( But at least I'm approaching the solution in
> small steps.
>
> kind regards, Pascal
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 4:12:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Sounds like bridge rectifier 5 on the solenoid driver board is bad. LTG :) 

"pascal" <pascalwyss@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123949583.194751.173150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> hi everyone
>
> thanks for all the hints. I found out that i'm missing +12v, LED 1 is
> not lit, looks like a bad U20, doesn't it? how can I make sure that's
> the reason? I didn't have game resets, and if it goes crazy, all
> flippers fire at once, no problem there. besides, no fuse is blown, so
> I guess the bridge rectifiers are alright. But now: how can i tell
> whether U20 is bad? Can this happen betwenn a turn off/on-cycle?
> That is very bad news for me, since I'm not good enough at soldering
> chips on the cpu board :-( But at least I'm approaching the solution in
> small steps.
>
> kind regards, Pascal
>
August 14, 2005 1:09:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Hi everyone, RonKZ650 wrote this:

>I assume LED6 for your 18v supply is lit?

Just looked at the driver board, and no, it isn't! so I don't have 18v
and don't have 12v. all the other LEDs are lit. what to do now?

kind regards, pascal



RonKZ650 wrote:
> If LED1 is not lit, it means 12v is not there, so problem is on the
> power driver board, not the CPU. The way to go now is find where you
> are losing 12v.I assume LED6 for your 18v supply is lit? This means
> power supply is ok to this point and you have either a open board
> connection or an open part between there and the 12v supply. From LED6
> if lit 18v goes to D1, then D2, then Q2 LM7812 left lead, then dropped
> to 12v on Q2 right lead, to F115. A DC meter should quickly reveal
> where voltage is lost. Just turn the game on, measure these points to
> find which part is open. My guess would be either Q2 LM7812 is bad, or
> an open board between these small parts.
> pascal wrote:
> > hi everyone
> >
> > thanks for all the hints. I found out that i'm missing +12v, LED 1 is
> > not lit, looks like a bad U20, doesn't it? how can I make sure that's
> > the reason? I didn't have game resets, and if it goes crazy, all
> > flippers fire at once, no problem there. besides, no fuse is blown, so
> > I guess the bridge rectifiers are alright. But now: how can i tell
> > whether U20 is bad? Can this happen betwenn a turn off/on-cycle?
> > That is very bad news for me, since I'm not good enough at soldering
> > chips on the cpu board :-( But at least I'm approaching the solution in
> > small steps.
> >
> > kind regards, Pascal
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 6:04:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Check the 18V and 12V bridge rectifiers and replace if bad. LTG :) 

"pascal" <pascalwyss@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124035792.748475.9580@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi everyone, RonKZ650 wrote this:
>
> >I assume LED6 for your 18v supply is lit?
>
> Just looked at the driver board, and no, it isn't! so I don't have 18v
> and don't have 12v. all the other LEDs are lit. what to do now?
>
> kind regards, pascal
August 15, 2005 6:18:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Bridge rectifiers, capacitors. You need to look, study and apply this
document:
http://www.marvin3m.com/wpc/index1.htm#fuses
and this:
http://www.marvin3m.com/wpc/index2.htm#reset2

Adi
www.txpinball.com



"pascal" <pascalwyss@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124035792.748475.9580@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi everyone, RonKZ650 wrote this:
>
> >I assume LED6 for your 18v supply is lit?
>
> Just looked at the driver board, and no, it isn't! so I don't have 18v
> and don't have 12v. all the other LEDs are lit. what to do now?
>
> kind regards, pascal
>
>
>
> RonKZ650 wrote:
> > If LED1 is not lit, it means 12v is not there, so problem is on the
> > power driver board, not the CPU. The way to go now is find where you
> > are losing 12v.I assume LED6 for your 18v supply is lit? This means
> > power supply is ok to this point and you have either a open board
> > connection or an open part between there and the 12v supply. From LED6
> > if lit 18v goes to D1, then D2, then Q2 LM7812 left lead, then dropped
> > to 12v on Q2 right lead, to F115. A DC meter should quickly reveal
> > where voltage is lost. Just turn the game on, measure these points to
> > find which part is open. My guess would be either Q2 LM7812 is bad, or
> > an open board between these small parts.
> > pascal wrote:
> > > hi everyone
> > >
> > > thanks for all the hints. I found out that i'm missing +12v, LED 1 is
> > > not lit, looks like a bad U20, doesn't it? how can I make sure that's
> > > the reason? I didn't have game resets, and if it goes crazy, all
> > > flippers fire at once, no problem there. besides, no fuse is blown, so
> > > I guess the bridge rectifiers are alright. But now: how can i tell
> > > whether U20 is bad? Can this happen betwenn a turn off/on-cycle?
> > > That is very bad news for me, since I'm not good enough at soldering
> > > chips on the cpu board :-( But at least I'm approaching the solution
in
> > > small steps.
> > >
> > > kind regards, Pascal
>
>
August 16, 2005 9:47:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I do it all the time. Basic troubleshooting... it doesn't hurt
anything.

--Ron
!