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Whats best way to back up a system?

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  • Backup
  • Hard Drives
  • Microsoft
  • Windows XP
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Anonymous
September 14, 2005 12:35:03 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a new
hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive and
be back up and running in a couple hours.

Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?




--
2dogs in Oregon USA

More about : whats back system

September 14, 2005 12:42:27 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

/2dogs/ said:

> I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a new
> hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive and
> be back up and running in a couple hours.
>
> Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?

No.

But an imaging utility will, provided that you keep current back ups. The
one I use here restores 3+ gigs in less than 4 minutes - every file, every
setting.

There are several good tools for this purpose. Check out...
http://terabyteunlimited.com (Image for Windows)
http://ghost.com
http://www.acronis.com/

--
For most XP answers and tweaks...
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_abc.htm
http://dougknox.com http://aumha.org
http://support.microsoft.com
September 14, 2005 12:49:47 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

2dogs wrote:

> I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a new
> hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive and
> be back up and running in a couple hours.
>
> Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?

As dev said, use a disk imaging program. Store the images on external
media such as a USB/firewire external hard drive DVD or on another
networked PC. Restores can be done of the complete partition or
individual files and folders.

Programs that do this are Norton Ghost, Acronis True Image, and Terabyte
Unlimited's Image for Windows and BootitNG.


--
Rock
MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
Related resources
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 12:57:01 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

When recreating the system on a new drive using an image utility is it
necessary to format, partition and install the operating system on the new
drive before restoring from the backup drive?


--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"dev" wrote:

>
> No.
>
> But an imaging utility will, provided that you keep current back ups. The
> one I use here restores 3+ gigs in less than 4 minutes - every file, every
> setting.
>
> There are several good tools for this purpose. Check out...
> http://terabyteunlimited.com (Image for Windows)
> http://ghost.com
> http://www.acronis.com/
>
> --
> For most XP answers and tweaks...
> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_abc.htm
> http://dougknox.com http://aumha.org
> http://support.microsoft.com
>
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 1:20:13 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"2dogs" <2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:89FA10B8-8306-4BE1-8ED4-E732AC02CAC0@microsoft.com...
> When recreating the system on a new drive using an image utility is it
> necessary to format, partition and install the operating system on the new
> drive before restoring from the backup drive?

No.
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 1:21:42 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

However, the new drive better be in the same system or it won't work.

"Alpha" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:11if9807j2ot391@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "2dogs" <2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:89FA10B8-8306-4BE1-8ED4-E732AC02CAC0@microsoft.com...
>> When recreating the system on a new drive using an image utility is it
>> necessary to format, partition and install the operating system on the
>> new
>> drive before restoring from the backup drive?
>
> No.
>
>
>
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 1:29:02 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Will the process you described also work if the image drive is not a
removable drive but is instead a second system hard drive used only for the
image?
--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"peterk" wrote:

> I use Acronis True Image.
> I connected my removable HD.
> Opened True Image and Imaged my C drive to the removable HD......True Image
> did the rest
> True Image lets you put a Start Up recovery manager in the boot
> process.This shows up on your screen before XP loads and tells you if you
> wish to start the Manager to push F?.When you do this True Image Starts and
> you can restore a saved image without being in XP.
> By Imaging my C drive to a removable HD I can and have removed my C drive
> and booted with the removable HD.It is an exact copy af the drive at that
> point in time.By saving Images of various Partitions onto another drive you
> can restore that partition to the point in time that you imaged it.Images
> will need to be updated when you have changes.
> I was worth what I paid for it.
> peterk
>
> --
> Never trust a computer you can't throw out the window. - Steve Wozniak
> "2dogs" <2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:89FA10B8-8306-4BE1-8ED4-E732AC02CAC0@microsoft.com...
> > When recreating the system on a new drive using an image utility is it
> > necessary to format, partition and install the operating system on the new
> > drive before restoring from the backup drive?
> >
> >
> > --
> > 2dogs in Oregon USA
> >
> >
> > "dev" wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> No.
> >>
> >> But an imaging utility will, provided that you keep current back ups.
> >> The
> >> one I use here restores 3+ gigs in less than 4 minutes - every file,
> >> every
> >> setting.
> >>
> >> There are several good tools for this purpose. Check out...
> >> http://terabyteunlimited.com (Image for Windows)
> >> http://ghost.com
> >> http://www.acronis.com/
> >>
> >> --
> >> For most XP answers and tweaks...
> >> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_abc.htm
> >> http://dougknox.com http://aumha.org
> >> http://support.microsoft.com
> >>
>
>
>
September 14, 2005 1:48:08 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

2dogs wrote:
> I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a new
> hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive and
> be back up and running in a couple hours.
>
> Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?

Yup.

That's what I use. I do once a week fulls, daily differentials and I
keep 4 weeks' worth of backups.

I've had to restore from a backup after my system device failed. Worked
fine. I've also pulled individual files and folders out of backup files
when I've brainfarted and deleted the wrong tree.
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 2:15:02 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

please tell me more. so far averyone else has disagreed.

Were you able to install a new drive and completely restore the backup to it
without formatting, partitioning, or installing the operating system first?
--
2dogs in Oregon USA


"Z" wrote:

> 2dogs wrote:
> > I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> > everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> > hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> > its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> > etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a new
> > hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive and
> > be back up and running in a couple hours.
> >
> > Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?
>
> Yup.
>
> That's what I use. I do once a week fulls, daily differentials and I
> keep 4 weeks' worth of backups.
>
> I've had to restore from a backup after my system device failed. Worked
> fine. I've also pulled individual files and folders out of backup files
> when I've brainfarted and deleted the wrong tree.
>
>
September 14, 2005 2:23:15 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

2dogs wrote:

> please tell me more. so far averyone else has disagreed.
>
> Were you able to install a new drive and completely restore the backup to it
> without formatting, partitioning, or installing the operating system first?

Yes that can be done.

--
Rock
MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
September 14, 2005 3:01:14 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

2dogs wrote:
> please tell me more. so far averyone else has disagreed.
>
> Were you able to install a new drive and completely restore the backup to it
> without formatting, partitioning, or installing the operating system first?

Ahh, sorry, I missed that. To restore from a Windows backup you must
first format and install the O/S on the new drive (a bare installation
is all you need) then you can restore the backup over the top of that.
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 5:56:02 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

if you have a second hdd in the machine, you can ghost a bootable image to
that drive, all that needs to be done in the event of failure is to change
the jumper on the drive to become the master and boot 2 minute job, do this
on a regular basis myself

--
there are no problems just challenges


"Z" wrote:

> 2dogs wrote:
> > please tell me more. so far averyone else has disagreed.
> >
> > Were you able to install a new drive and completely restore the backup to it
> > without formatting, partitioning, or installing the operating system first?
>
> Ahh, sorry, I missed that. To restore from a Windows backup you must
> first format and install the O/S on the new drive (a bare installation
> is all you need) then you can restore the backup over the top of that.
>
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 5:58:04 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

sorry this can also be done with removable drives, again just change to
master insert drive in the pc and boot again 2 minute job, no need to install
windows format or anything else ghost takes care of the full process
been a lifesaver for me on a number of occasions


--
there are no problems just challenges


"Z" wrote:

> 2dogs wrote:
> > please tell me more. so far averyone else has disagreed.
> >
> > Were you able to install a new drive and completely restore the backup to it
> > without formatting, partitioning, or installing the operating system first?
>
> Ahh, sorry, I missed that. To restore from a Windows backup you must
> first format and install the O/S on the new drive (a bare installation
> is all you need) then you can restore the backup over the top of that.
>
September 14, 2005 9:32:18 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

steve.a wrote:
> if you have a second hdd in the machine, you can ghost a bootable image to
> that drive, all that needs to be done in the event of failure is to change
> the jumper on the drive to become the master and boot 2 minute job, do this
> on a regular basis myself
>

That method allows you to save exactly one image. Useful if the hard
drive failed, not useful if you need to go back to 5 days ago. And not
useful if you need just a single file from 2 days ago.
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 9:32:39 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Windows backup will NOT work to meet all your demands.

The most obvious solution is a RAID 0 configuration which I doubt you have
RAID on your PC. So, will not continue on that.

CLONING
This copies the partition, filesystem, and all the files to another hard
drive. There's no formatting or installing to do afterwards. It will act
just like your current hard drive if made active for booting. The SID
should be identical though. Remove the clone after the cloning operation.
Do not leave connected to your PC.

IMAGING
This makes a copy of your partition, your filesystem, and all your files
with the exception of the paging file and hibernation settings file. This
is compressed into one or more files. It cannot be used for the original
XP. Rather, the file or files must be restored using another hard drive as
the target. After completion of restoration, the target hard drive will be
a duplicate of the original hard drive.

Many imaging type softwares also can perform cloning as an alternative.
This is usually a selection called copying a drive.

The target hard drive (where the copy is made to) should be the same size or
larger for cloning.

The target hard drive or partition for imaging may be smaller than the
original. This is due to lack of copying the paging and hibernation
settings files, compression, and only copies data not empty space. C:
cannot be saved to C:, must be an alternate partition, hard drive, or DVD/CD
writer. The two files mentioned are recreated by XP upon booting XP.

"2dogs" <2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7AD7E0B3-DCFB-4D3F-8C66-28900F2E8C50@microsoft.com...
> I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a
new
> hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive
and
> be back up and running in a couple hours.
>
> Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?
>
>
>
>
> --
> 2dogs in Oregon USA
September 14, 2005 10:21:27 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Alpha" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:11if9ap3qf55gb0@corp.supernews.com...
> However, the new drive better be in the same system or it won't work.
>
Could you expand on that statement please.
I have a PC with XP networked with a P.C. with 98Se and I use True Image to
copy the XP to the 98SE.
Are you saying it won't work unless the 98SE is changed to XP?
Blair
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 10:21:28 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Blair" <darrach@coille.com> wrote in message
news:%235F%23rwOuFHA.664@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>
> "Alpha" <none@none.net> wrote in message
> news:11if9ap3qf55gb0@corp.supernews.com...
>> However, the new drive better be in the same system or it won't work.
>>
> Could you expand on that statement please.
> I have a PC with XP networked with a P.C. with 98Se and I use True Image
> to
> copy the XP to the 98SE.
> Are you saying it won't work unless the 98SE is changed to XP?
> Blair
>
>

The images are complete backups, including system files and drivers. No,
you cannot copy XP to another computer...even XP if it is not identical in
every single way.
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 10:30:36 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"2dogs" <2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B180D06F-416A-4139-B1EE-5F470C358127@microsoft.com...
> please tell me more. so far averyone else has disagreed.
>
> Were you able to install a new drive and completely restore the backup to
> it
> without formatting, partitioning, or installing the operating system
> first?
> --
> 2dogs in Oregon USA
>
>
> "Z" wrote:
>
>> 2dogs wrote:
>> > I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
>> > everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If
>> > my
>> > hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and
>> > all
>> > its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users,
>> > and
>> > etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a
>> > new
>> > hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup
>> > drive and
>> > be back up and running in a couple hours.
>> >
>> > Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?
>>
>> Yup.
>>
>> That's what I use. I do once a week fulls, daily differentials and I
>> keep 4 weeks' worth of backups.
>>
>> I've had to restore from a backup after my system device failed. Worked
>> fine. I've also pulled individual files and folders out of backup files
>> when I've brainfarted and deleted the wrong tree.
>>
Before you restore/install anything the media/drive needs to be prepared
that is formatted. Partitioning can take place after you have restored
provided you have suitable software for the task (partition manger et al).
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 2:06:55 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Z" wrote:
>> if you have a second hdd in the machine, you can ghost
>> a bootable image to that drive, all that needs to be done
>> in the event of failure is to change the jumper on the drive
>> to become the master and boot 2 minute job, do this
>> on a regular basis myself
>>
>
> That method allows you to save exactly one image. Useful
> if the hard drive failed, not useful if you need to go back to
> 5 days ago. And not useful if you need just a single file from
> 2 days ago.


1) Ghost and Casper XP (and a few other utilities) can make
a bootable image (i.e. a "clone") of a single partition and
put it among other partitions on another HD. If your OS-to-
be-archived is small enough and the destination HD is
large enough, you can put several clones on a single
backup HD. If you put enough entries in each clone's
boot.ini file (one entry for each partition on the backup HD),
any partition on the backup HD can act as the loader (i.e.
act as the "system" partition in Microsoft's terminology) to
load any of the other partitions.

All that is necessary to boot any one of the partitions is
to make one of the primary partitions "active", and that
partition will be the "system" partition, i.e. it will run the
loader and present the boot menu. To make the backup
HD take control for booting, you can remove or disconnect
the main HD, or you can simply readjust the HD boot order
in the BIOS to put the backup HD at the head of the boot order.

To backup 5 OSes on a single HD, you can have a maximum
of 3 partitions be Primary partitions - any one of which can
marked as the "active" partition that will do the loading - and
the 4th partition can be an Extended partition which can hold
several more clones, each clone selectable for loading by
the boot.ini file residing in one of the Primary partitions.

2) A simpler system would involve copying the main HD to one of
several backup HDs, each backup HD sitting in a removable
tray. For that operation, you can use not only Ghost or
Casper XP, but also True Image (which can only clone an
entire HD, not just a designated partition). The single partition
on the backup HD would always be the "active" partition, and
no knowledge of boot.ini syntax would be necessary.

To use a backup HD, just slide in the appropriate tray, remove
or disconnect the main HD, or readjust the BIOS's HD boot order
to put the backup HD at the head of the boot order, and restart
the computer.

3) To just copy a file from the backup HD, just connect it or slide
in its removable tray and boot up. The backup partition will
be visible to the running OS as just another Local Disk, and
you can drag 'n drop files between the partitions.

4) CAUTION: When starting up a clone for the 1st time, don't
let it see its "parent" OS, or it will forever be dependent on
the continued presence of its "parent". Once it has booted
and run for the 1st time independently, it can be allowed to
to see its "parent" OS with no problems.

Making the "parent" invisible can be done in several ways:
a) Simply disconnect or remove the source HD,
b) Cut the power to the source HD (works best if the 2 HDs
are on different IDE channels),
c) Use Partition Magic to "hide" the source partition
(done from a bootable floppy or an OS on a 3rd partition).

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 2:25:36 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <7AD7E0B3-DCFB-4D3F-8C66-28900F2E8C50@microsoft.com>,
2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com says...
> I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a new
> hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive and
> be back up and running in a couple hours.
>
> Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?

You want to make a GHOST Image of your entire drive to a file on a
external drive so that you have a PERFECT Image of the system at the
time of the image - you can then restore the image as needed, even
resizing drive partitions, and it will work perfectly.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
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Anonymous
September 14, 2005 2:26:46 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <89FA10B8-8306-4BE1-8ED4-E732AC02CAC0@microsoft.com>,
2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com says...
> When recreating the system on a new drive using an image utility is it
> necessary to format, partition and install the operating system on the new
> drive before restoring from the backup drive?

Not using Ghost (or most of the others) - the Image, including all disk
info (to make it bootable) is included in the Image Saved and in the
Image Restored - this would be a DISK IMAGE, not a partition image.

--

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remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 2:28:22 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"steve.a" wrote:
> sorry this can also be done with removable drives, again just change to
> master insert drive in the pc and boot again 2 minute job, no need to install
> windows format or anything else ghost takes care of the full process
> been a lifesaver for me on a number of occasions


What is done with the main drive? If it remains in the computer
and it and the removable HD were put on the same cable (i.e.
same IDE channel), the BIOS's default HD boot order would
select the main HD (the Master) for booting. If the main HD were
always jumpered as Slave to allow the removable HD to take over
as Master whenever it appeared, the main HD wouldn't boot when
the removable HD were present for the cloning. For the simple
slide-in-and-take-over to work, the main drive would have to be
on the 2nd IDE channel (as Master or Slave), and the removable
HD would have to be on the 1st IDE channel. That is because the
default HD boot order gives the 1st channel (ch. 0) precedence
over the 2nd channel (ch. 1).

If the 2 HDs are to be on the same channel at the same time,
the BIOS's HD boot order must be changed to put the appropriate
HD at the head of the boot order.

Of course, none of this has to be dealt with if the both the main HD
and the backup HD are in removable trays and insertable into 2
separate racks. Then, simply removing the main HD would pass
booting control to the backup HD.

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 2:29:57 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <cYNVe.12109$tc7.6357@fe03.lga>, Z@no.spam says...
> 2dogs wrote:
> > I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> > everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> > hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> > its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> > etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a new
> > hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive and
> > be back up and running in a couple hours.
> >
> > Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?
>
> Yup.
>
> That's what I use. I do once a week fulls, daily differentials and I
> keep 4 weeks' worth of backups.
>
> I've had to restore from a backup after my system device failed. Worked
> fine. I've also pulled individual files and folders out of backup files
> when I've brainfarted and deleted the wrong tree.

While NT Backup will work, it's no where near as simple as using Ghost
or other third party IMAGE programs.

In order to run NT Backup you have to be running the OS and have a
working copy of Windows running - now, if you don't have Windows in a
working order, you have to reinstall it, get your backups, restore them
properly over-top of the OS and then it will work.

With an Image, you boot from Diskette or CD, run the Image program,
select the Source File, select the Destination Drive, done.

--

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Anonymous
September 14, 2005 2:30:37 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <#gYXpxOuFHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>, rock@mail.nospam.net
says...
> 2dogs wrote:
>
> > please tell me more. so far averyone else has disagreed.
> >
> > Were you able to install a new drive and completely restore the backup to it
> > without formatting, partitioning, or installing the operating system first?
>
> Yes that can be done.

On a single machine, without installing the OS, you can not run Windows
BACKUP to restore the backup.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
September 14, 2005 2:30:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Leythos wrote:
> On a single machine, without installing the OS, you can not run Windows
> BACKUP to restore the backup.

A terrible oversight that I hope the Vista console corrects.
September 14, 2005 4:53:50 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Alpha" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:11ifdpur3gjp94a@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Blair" <darrach@coille.com> wrote in message
> news:%235F%23rwOuFHA.664@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >
> > "Alpha" <none@none.net> wrote in message
> > news:11if9ap3qf55gb0@corp.supernews.com...
> >> However, the new drive better be in the same system or it won't work.
> >>
> > Could you expand on that statement please.
> > I have a PC with XP networked with a P.C. with 98Se and I use True Image
> > to
> > copy the XP to the 98SE.
> > Are you saying it won't work unless the 98SE is changed to XP?
> > Blair
> >
> >
>
> The images are complete backups, including system files and drivers. No,
> you cannot copy XP to another computer...even XP if it is not identical in
> every single way.
>
I am devastated! I have assumed that when I copied my image from XP PC to my
98 PC that it was a self contained file and when I wished to restore it
would restore it complete without any reference to the 98 operating system
on the PC.
You are telling me that I have been wasting my time and it wouldn't have
worked!
What I believed was that I was copying the whole disk and not copying XP
Blair
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 6:05:00 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Ghost

"2dogs" <2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7AD7E0B3-DCFB-4D3F-8C66-28900F2E8C50@microsoft.com...
>I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a
> new
> hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup drive
> and
> be back up and running in a couple hours.
>
> Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?
>
>
>
>
> --
> 2dogs in Oregon USA
September 14, 2005 8:10:15 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Leythos wrote:

> In article <#gYXpxOuFHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>, rock@mail.nospam.net
> says...
>
>>2dogs wrote:
>>
>>
>>>please tell me more. so far averyone else has disagreed.
>>>
>>>Were you able to install a new drive and completely restore the backup to it
>>>without formatting, partitioning, or installing the operating system first?
>>
>>Yes that can be done.
>
>
> On a single machine, without installing the OS, you can not run Windows
> BACKUP to restore the backup.
>

I didn't think we were talking about windows backup.

--
Rock
MS MVP Windows - Shell/User
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 8:13:33 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Tuesday 13 September 2005 08:35 pm, 2dogs had this to say in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:

> I want a means of backing up my whole system, applications, data, and
> everything including the operating system to a separate hard drive. If my
> hard disk dies I don't want to have to reload the operating system and all
> its updates, reload all my software and their updates, recreate users, and
> etc, etc, etc. This literally takes days. I want to be able to put in a
> new hard drive and completely recreate my entire system from my backup
> drive and be back up and running in a couple hours.
>
> Will the backup utility supplied with XP do this?
>
Of course not. What INCLUDED software that comes bundled with XP can be
relied upon to do much of anything? One usually has to find a third-party
app to get full functionality for a particular job.

Personally, I'd suggest you look at Acronis True Image software. It'll allow
you to disk image your XP hard drive to a file or files on your other drive
and makes for quick and easy recovery should you need to of everything on
your main hard drive.


--
Now this is Eye-Candy! Most beautiful desktop in the world.
Checkout ELive - a live Linux CD - run R17
http://www.elivecd.org/gb/About/index.html
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 10:01:45 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In news:D 102B212-DEBC-47DA-8E4A-6051E9222404@microsoft.com,
2dogs <2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com> typed:

> Will the process you described also work if the image drive is
> not a
> removable drive but is instead a second system hard drive used
> only
> for the image?


Yes, imaging works identically whether or not the drive is
removable.

However, if you're planning on backing up to a non-removable hard
drive, I urge you to rethink that strategy. I don't recommend
backup to a second non-removable hard drive because it leaves you
susceptible to simultaneous loss of the original and backup to
many of the most common dangers: severe power glitches, nearby
lightning strikes, virus attacks, even theft of the computer.


In my view, secure backup needs to be on removable media, and not
kept in the computer. For really secure backup (needed, for
example, if the life of your business depends on your data) you
should have multiple generations of backup, and at least one of
those generations should be stored off-site.


--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup




>> I use Acronis True Image.
>> I connected my removable HD.
>> Opened True Image and Imaged my C drive to the removable
>> HD......True Image did the rest
>> True Image lets you put a Start Up recovery manager in the
>> boot
>> process.This shows up on your screen before XP loads and tells
>> you
>> if you wish to start the Manager to push F?.When you do this
>> True
>> Image Starts and you can restore a saved image without being
>> in XP.
>> By Imaging my C drive to a removable HD I can and have removed
>> my C
>> drive and booted with the removable HD.It is an exact copy af
>> the
>> drive at that point in time.By saving Images of various
>> Partitions
>> onto another drive you can restore that partition to the point
>> in
>> time that you imaged it.Images will need to be updated when
>> you have
>> changes.
>> I was worth what I paid for it.
>> peterk
>>
>> --
>> Never trust a computer you can't throw out the window. - Steve
>> Wozniak "2dogs" <2dogs@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>> message
>> news:89FA10B8-8306-4BE1-8ED4-E732AC02CAC0@microsoft.com...
>>> When recreating the system on a new drive using an image
>>> utility is
>>> it necessary to format, partition and install the operating
>>> system
>>> on the new drive before restoring from the backup drive?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 2dogs in Oregon USA
>>>
>>>
>>> "dev" wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>> But an imaging utility will, provided that you keep current
>>>> back
>>>> ups. The
>>>> one I use here restores 3+ gigs in less than 4 minutes -
>>>> every
>>>> file, every
>>>> setting.
>>>>
>>>> There are several good tools for this purpose. Check out...
>>>> http://terabyteunlimited.com (Image for Windows)
>>>> http://ghost.com
>>>> http://www.acronis.com/
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> For most XP answers and tweaks...
>>>> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_abc.htm
>>>> http://dougknox.com http://aumha.org
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com
September 14, 2005 11:52:56 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

> "steve.a" wrote:
>> sorry this can also be done with removable drives, again just change to
>> master insert drive in the pc and boot again 2 minute job, no need to
>> install windows format or anything else ghost takes care of the full
>> process been a lifesaver for me on a number of occasions



"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
news:Zs2dndq1E_MBwLXeRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> What is done with the main drive? If it remains in the computer
> and it and the removable HD were put on the same cable (i.e.
> same IDE channel), the BIOS's default HD boot order would
> select the main HD (the Master) for booting. If the main HD were
> always jumpered as Slave to allow the removable HD to take over
> as Master whenever it appeared, the main HD wouldn't boot when
> the removable HD were present for the cloning. For the simple
> slide-in-and-take-over to work, the main drive would have to be
> on the 2nd IDE channel (as Master or Slave), and the removable
> HD would have to be on the 1st IDE channel. That is because the
> default HD boot order gives the 1st channel (ch. 0) precedence
> over the 2nd channel (ch. 1).
>
> If the 2 HDs are to be on the same channel at the same time,
> the BIOS's HD boot order must be changed to put the appropriate
> HD at the head of the boot order.
>
> Of course, none of this has to be dealt with if the both the main HD
> and the backup HD are in removable trays and insertable into 2
> separate racks. Then, simply removing the main HD would pass
> booting control to the backup HD.
>
> *TimDaniels*


No doubt the OP is long-gone, thoroughly confused over the complexity of
this thread as it has evolved since his or her original query. I hope that's
not the case, but I fear it is.

Anyway, I hope he or she will forgive me for not specifically responding to
his/her query while I respond to Tim's comments. And I hope (most likely, a
forlorn one) that the OP will gain some measure of understanding from all
that has gone on re the discussion of this issue.

Tim, I think you know from my previous postings that I am a strong proponent
of users equipping their desktop computers with *two* removable hard drives
in their mobile racks. For many reasons (which I won't go into here) it is,
in my view, a most desirable hardware configuration for many, if not most
desktop PC users. The flexibility & peace of mind one gains from this
arrangement is enormous. But we'll leave any further discussion of the
advantages of removable drives for another day, OK?

However, we frequently find that for one reason or another (usually the lack
of two available 5 1/4" bays), the user can install only one removable HD.
Their other HD will be an internal one. In that situation our usual
configuration method (of course, I'm speaking of PATA drives here) is to
connect the removable drive as Primary Master and the internal one as
Secondary Master. The removable drive becomes the user's day-to-day working
drive while the internal one acts as recipient of the clone for backup
purposes. Under these circumstances the system will ordinarily boot to the
removable HD. Should the removable drive be disconnected (a simple turn of
the keylock to the OFF position), the system will boot to the internal HD.

In cloning the contents of one drive to another we usually work with Ghost's
2003 bootable floppy disk (or bootable CD), or if using the Acronis True
Image program, the ATI bootable CD. The process is simple, straightforward,
and effective.

Having said all this, let me reiterate my opinion that the most desirable
hardware configuration for many, if not most PC users to equip their desktop
computer with *two* removable drives. Should that be not feasible, we
recommend that a USB/Firewire external hard drive be employed for backup
purposes, rather than an internal HD. Obviously a more secure backup system
will result from having an external device rather than an internal one as
the recipient of the clone. But, for one reason or another, should the user
be unable or unwilling to use a removable or external drive for backing up
their system, then a internal drive will have to suffice. We do *not*
recommend using a different (separate) partition on a single drive for
backup purposes.

So, to summarize, using a removable HD and an internal HD, viable clones of
one's system can be created using a disk imaging program such as the ones
discussed.
Anna
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 11:55:47 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Blair" <darrach@coille.com> wrote:


>I am devastated! I have assumed that when I copied my image from XP PC to my
>98 PC that it was a self contained file and when I wished to restore it
>would restore it complete without any reference to the 98 operating system
>on the PC.
>You are telling me that I have been wasting my time and it wouldn't have
>worked!
>What I believed was that I was copying the whole disk and not copying XP
>Blair
>

You have misunderstood.

Where the backup image is stored is basically irrelevant, provided the
drive is accessible and has enough capacity.

What the original comment meant was that when you restore an image you
must restore it to the same PC that it was created from, otherwise
there will be problems.

You cannot make a backup image of Computer A: and then restore that
image to the hard drive of Computer B:, thereby obtaining two
functioning computers (A and B) with the same operating system,
installed apps, etc.

Hope this clarifies the situation.

Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 7:16:11 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <vfohi1520kae9m83gu912gb63nmqnm7n3p@4ax.com>,
ron.martell@gmail.com says...
> What the original comment meant was that when you restore an image you
> must restore it to the same PC that it was created from, otherwise
> there will be problems.
>
> You cannot make a backup image of Computer A: and then restore that
> image to the hard drive of Computer B:, thereby obtaining two
> functioning computers (A and B) with the same operating system,
> installed apps, etc.
>
> Hope this clarifies the situation.

Actually, if you consider a "repair/reinstall" you can restore the image
and regain full use of your system. I just did three of these over the
weekend and found it worked perfectly.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
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Anonymous
September 15, 2005 6:46:58 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Leythos <void@nowhere.lan> wrote:


>
>Actually, if you consider a "repair/reinstall" you can restore the image
>and regain full use of your system. I just did three of these over the
>weekend and found it worked perfectly.


The need to do a Repair Install and also to provide a different
product key, are what I was alluding to when I said "otherwise
there will be problems".

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm
September 15, 2005 9:31:34 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Ron Martell" <ron.martell@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vfohi1520kae9m83gu912gb63nmqnm7n3p@4ax.com...
> "Blair" <darrach@coille.com> wrote:
>
>
> >I am devastated! I have assumed that when I copied my image from XP PC to
my
> >98 PC that it was a self contained file and when I wished to restore it
> >would restore it complete without any reference to the 98 operating
system
> >on the PC.
> >You are telling me that I have been wasting my time and it wouldn't have
> >worked!
> >What I believed was that I was copying the whole disk and not copying XP
> >Blair
> >
>
> You have misunderstood.
>
> Where the backup image is stored is basically irrelevant, provided the
> drive is accessible and has enough capacity.
>
> What the original comment meant was that when you restore an image you
> must restore it to the same PC that it was created from, otherwise
> there will be problems.
>
> You cannot make a backup image of Computer A: and then restore that
> image to the hard drive of Computer B:, thereby obtaining two
> functioning computers (A and B) with the same operating system,
> installed apps, etc.
>
> Hope this clarifies the situation.
>
> Good luck
>
> Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
> --
> Microsoft MVP
> On-Line Help Computer Service
> http://onlinehelp.bc.ca
>
> In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
> http://aumha.org/alex.htm

Thanks for clarifying what was intended in the original comment. I am
relieved
Regards
Blair
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 1:50:08 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <brqji1l31fldbbinbt85t127i0t0hnh6vd@4ax.com>,
ron.martell@gmail.com says...
> Leythos <void@nowhere.lan> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Actually, if you consider a "repair/reinstall" you can restore the image
> >and regain full use of your system. I just did three of these over the
> >weekend and found it worked perfectly.
>
>
> The need to do a Repair Install and also to provide a different
> product key, are what I was alluding to when I said "otherwise
> there will be problems".

You can use the same product key/COA as long as it's a repair - you are
even permitted to restore an OEM install to a new board as long as it
was to replace a defective board.

--

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!