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Licence

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Anonymous
September 14, 2005 1:35:01 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

I own a copy of Windows XP Home SP1 it is installed on my desktop and I want
to install it on my sons computer. Do I have to buy another copy or can I
just buy another Licence.
I dont think I should have to spend another $150.00 for another copy.

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks

More about : licence

Anonymous
September 14, 2005 3:52:40 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

You need to purchase a new Windows XP license for each
installation on a different computer. You cannot use the
same license (Product Key) if you install on different PCs.
Product Activation will not enable on a second installation
on a different PC if you use the same license.

Please read your End-User License Agreement by going
to Start > Run and type: WINVER , and hit enter. Then
click on "End-User License Agreement".

From the Windows XP EULA:

1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
display and run one copy of the Software on a single
computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other
device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not
be used by more than two (2) processors at any one
time on any single Workstation Computer.

If you already have a retail copy of Windows XP, you can obtain
additional licenses for another computer or laptop by visiting the
following Microsoft Web site:
http://shop.microsoft.com/special/wal/walinfo.asp

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Mixxdj" wrote:

| I own a copy of Windows XP Home SP1 it is installed on my desktop and I want
| to install it on my sons computer. Do I have to buy another copy or can I
| just buy another Licence.
| I dont think I should have to spend another $150.00 for another copy.
|
| Any help would be appreciated
|
| Thanks
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 3:52:41 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Thank You for your quick response that’s what I wanted to know.

"Carey Frisch [MVP]" wrote:

> You need to purchase a new Windows XP license for each
> installation on a different computer. You cannot use the
> same license (Product Key) if you install on different PCs.
> Product Activation will not enable on a second installation
> on a different PC if you use the same license.
>
> Please read your End-User License Agreement by going
> to Start > Run and type: WINVER , and hit enter. Then
> click on "End-User License Agreement".
>
> From the Windows XP EULA:
>
> 1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
> display and run one copy of the Software on a single
> computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other
> device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not
> be used by more than two (2) processors at any one
> time on any single Workstation Computer.
>
> If you already have a retail copy of Windows XP, you can obtain
> additional licenses for another computer or laptop by visiting the
> following Microsoft Web site:
> http://shop.microsoft.com/special/wal/walinfo.asp
>
> --
> Carey Frisch
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows XP - Shell/User
> Microsoft Newsgroups
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Mixxdj" wrote:
>
> | I own a copy of Windows XP Home SP1 it is installed on my desktop and I want
> | to install it on my sons computer. Do I have to buy another copy or can I
> | just buy another Licence.
> | I dont think I should have to spend another $150.00 for another copy.
> |
> | Any help would be appreciated
> |
> | Thanks
>
Related resources
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 4:47:52 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Mixxdj wrote:
> I own a copy of Windows XP Home SP1 it is installed on my desktop and
> I want to install it on my sons computer. Do I have to buy another
> copy or can I just buy another Licence.
> I dont think I should have to spend another $150.00 for another copy.

Then don't. If your copy of XP is Retail or generic OEM and it's been
more than 120 days, then it should activate over the internet with no
problem.

If it has been less than 120 days, then you'll have to phone MS to
activate the instal on your son's computer, and come up with a
convincing story.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 4:47:53 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Ok maybe I didn’t phrase it properly. I just want to know if I can install
windows on two computers. Can I buy a license for the second computer or do I
have to buy a new copy of windows.

"kurttrail" wrote:

> Mixxdj wrote:
> > I own a copy of Windows XP Home SP1 it is installed on my desktop and
> > I want to install it on my sons computer. Do I have to buy another
> > copy or can I just buy another Licence.
> > I dont think I should have to spend another $150.00 for another copy.
>
> Then don't. If your copy of XP is Retail or generic OEM and it's been
> more than 120 days, then it should activate over the internet with no
> problem.
>
> If it has been less than 120 days, then you'll have to phone MS to
> activate the instal on your son's computer, and come up with a
> convincing story.
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com/mscommunity
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
>
>
>
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 4:47:53 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in news:
#uW4NwUuFHA.1028@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl:

And break the EULA in the process. Windows is licensed to be used on a
single computer at a time.


> Mixxdj wrote:
>> I own a copy of Windows XP Home SP1 it is installed on my desktop and
>> I want to install it on my sons computer. Do I have to buy another
>> copy or can I just buy another Licence.
>> I dont think I should have to spend another $150.00 for another copy.
>
> Then don't. If your copy of XP is Retail or generic OEM and it's been
> more than 120 days, then it should activate over the internet with no
> problem.
>
> If it has been less than 120 days, then you'll have to phone MS to
> activate the instal on your son's computer, and come up with a
> convincing story.
>
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 4:58:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

If you have a "Retail Version" Windows XP CD, you can use the same CD
to install on a different computer, providing you purchase a second license.
http://shop.microsoft.com/special/wal/walinfo.asp

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Mixxdj" wrote:

| Ok maybe I didn’t phrase it properly. I just want to know if I can install
| windows on two computers. Can I buy a license for the second computer or do I
| have to buy a new copy of windows.
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 5:33:08 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Mixxdj wrote:
> Ok maybe I didn't phrase it properly. I just want to know if I can
> install windows on two computers. Can I buy a license for the second
> computer or do I have to buy a new copy of windows.

If you want to subsidize MS, then buying a second license directly from
them is more expensive than buying another copy from a 3rd party vendor,
and MS will get more money from you.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 9:04:43 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Mixxdj" <Mixxdj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:8FC80684-B167-4ACD-A6DD-B91715DB5422@microsoft.com...
> I own a copy of Windows XP Home SP1 it is installed on my desktop and I
want
> to install it on my sons computer. Do I have to buy another copy or can I
> just buy another Licence.
> I dont think I should have to spend another $150.00 for another copy.

How about $1 for the extra copy on CD and $149 for the license? The CD costs
very little to make, The code on it costs a lot.
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 9:04:44 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

CWatters wrote:

<<snipped>>

> How about $1 for the extra copy on CD and $149 for the license? The CD costs
> very little to make, The code on it costs a lot.

No, the code does not cost a lot considering that it took
just a team of programmers to write a product that has sold
several hundred millions of copies. The cost is in the license
and it is typically an arbitrary number.
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 9:04:45 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

First I live in Canada and the best price I can find is $125.00, I can't
understand why Microsoft Charges so much if they lowered the price to 75 or
85 dollars most people would buy windows. There would be allot less illegal
copies of XP around and they would end up making more money in the long run.
Here I went out and bought XP and now I want to install it on a second
computer in my house and it's going to cost me another $150. And Microsoft
wonders why there are so many Pirate copies of windows.

Thanks to all that replied

"Ghostrider" wrote:

>
> CWatters wrote:
>
> <<snipped>>
>
> > How about $1 for the extra copy on CD and $149 for the license? The CD costs
> > very little to make, The code on it costs a lot.
>
> No, the code does not cost a lot considering that it took
> just a team of programmers to write a product that has sold
> several hundred millions of copies. The cost is in the license
> and it is typically an arbitrary number.
>
September 14, 2005 11:06:50 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:eMaK$yUuFHA.3596@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> You need to purchase a new Windows XP license for each
> installation on a different computer. You cannot use the
> same license (Product Key) if you install on different PCs.
> Product Activation will not enable on a second installation
> on a different PC if you use the same license.
>
> Please read your End-User License Agreement by going
> to Start > Run and type: WINVER , and hit enter. Then
> click on "End-User License Agreement".
>
> From the Windows XP EULA:
>
> 1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
> display and run one copy of the Software on a single
> computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other
> device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not
> be used by more than two (2) processors at any one
> time on any single Workstation Computer.
>
> If you already have a retail copy of Windows XP, you can obtain
> additional licenses for another computer or laptop by visiting the
> following Microsoft Web site:
> http://shop.microsoft.com/special/wal/walinfo.asp
>
> --
> Carey Frisch
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows XP - Shell/User
> Microsoft Newsgroups
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Mixxdj" wrote:
>
> | I own a copy of Windows XP Home SP1 it is installed on my desktop and I
> want
> | to install it on my sons computer. Do I have to buy another copy or can
> I
> | just buy another Licence.
> | I dont think I should have to spend another $150.00 for another copy.
> |
> | Any help would be appreciated
> |
> | Thanks

You can get OEM copies for less than that. Wallmarts has them for $119.98.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=1...

Alias
September 14, 2005 11:12:19 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Prices on Carey's link:

Windows XP additional license pricing
Version Additional License Price
Windows XP Professional-full version $269.00
Windows XP Professional-version upgrade $184.00
Windows XP Home Edition-full version $184.00
Windows XP Home Edition-version upgrade $84.00


Walmart is cheaper.



Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition OEM Version
$119.98





Microsoft Windows XP Professional Edition OEM Version
$198.98





Alias

"Mixxdj" <Mixxdj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote

> Thank You for your quick response thatâ?Ts what I wanted to know.
>
> "Carey Frisch [MVP]" wrote:
>
>> You need to purchase a new Windows XP license for each
>> installation on a different computer. You cannot use the
>> same license (Product Key) if you install on different PCs.
>> Product Activation will not enable on a second installation
>> on a different PC if you use the same license.
>>
>> Please read your End-User License Agreement by going
>> to Start > Run and type: WINVER , and hit enter. Then
>> click on "End-User License Agreement".
>>
>> From the Windows XP EULA:
>>
>> 1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access,
>> display and run one copy of the Software on a single
>> computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other
>> device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not
>> be used by more than two (2) processors at any one
>> time on any single Workstation Computer.
>>
>> If you already have a retail copy of Windows XP, you can obtain
>> additional licenses for another computer or laptop by visiting the
>> following Microsoft Web site:
>> http://shop.microsoft.com/special/wal/walinfo.asp
>>
>> --
>> Carey Frisch
>> Microsoft MVP
>> Windows XP - Shell/User
>> Microsoft Newsgroups
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "Mixxdj" wrote:
>>
>> | I own a copy of Windows XP Home SP1 it is installed on my desktop and I
>> want
>> | to install it on my sons computer. Do I have to buy another copy or can
>> I
>> | just buy another Licence.
>> | I dont think I should have to spend another $150.00 for another copy.
>> |
>> | Any help would be appreciated
>> |
>> | Thanks
>>


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M1TE&.#EA% `4`(#_`,# P ```"'Y! $`````+ `````4`!0```(1A(^IR^T/
-HYRTVHNSWKS[KQ4`.P``
`
end
September 14, 2005 11:15:36 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Asher_N" <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96D18591CC290compguy666hotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in news:
> #uW4NwUuFHA.1028@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl:
>
> And break the EULA in the process. Windows is licensed to be used on a
> single computer at a time.

Course, one hasn't agreed to the EULA until it's too late to get your money
back, so should such a scam be honored and respected?

Alias
>
>
>> Mixxdj wrote:
>>> I own a copy of Windows XP Home SP1 it is installed on my desktop and
>>> I want to install it on my sons computer. Do I have to buy another
>>> copy or can I just buy another Licence.
>>> I dont think I should have to spend another $150.00 for another copy.
>>
>> Then don't. If your copy of XP is Retail or generic OEM and it's been
>> more than 120 days, then it should activate over the internet with no
>> problem.
>>
>> If it has been less than 120 days, then you'll have to phone MS to
>> activate the instal on your son's computer, and come up with a
>> convincing story.
>>
>
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 11:15:37 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote in
news:#JTRt$UuFHA.2568@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl:

>
> "Asher_N" <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D18591CC290compguy666hotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
>> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
>> news: #uW4NwUuFHA.1028@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl:
>>
>> And break the EULA in the process. Windows is licensed to be used on
>> a single computer at a time.
>
> Course, one hasn't agreed to the EULA until it's too late to get your
> money back, so should such a scam be honored and respected?
>
> Alias
>>

Because it's a contract that you have agreed to.

>>
>>> Mixxdj wrote:
>>>> I own a copy of Windows XP Home SP1 it is installed on my desktop
>>>> and I want to install it on my sons computer. Do I have to buy
>>>> another copy or can I just buy another Licence.
>>>> I dont think I should have to spend another $150.00 for another
>>>> copy.
>>>
>>> Then don't. If your copy of XP is Retail or generic OEM and it's
>>> been more than 120 days, then it should activate over the internet
>>> with no problem.
>>>
>>> If it has been less than 120 days, then you'll have to phone MS to
>>> activate the instal on your son's computer, and come up with a
>>> convincing story.
>>>
>>
>
>
>
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 11:15:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Asher_N wrote:

> Because it's a contract that you have agreed to.

No, it is a post-sale shrink-wrap license.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 11:15:39 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
news:o 3qZO7VuFHA.3068@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:

> Asher_N wrote:
>
>> Because it's a contract that you have agreed to.
>
> No, it is a post-sale shrink-wrap license.
>

And by acepting it and installing the software, you are bound by it.
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 11:25:56 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Mixxdj wrote:
> I own a copy of Windows XP Home SP1 it is installed on my desktop and I want
> to install it on my sons computer. Do I have to buy another copy or can I
> just buy another Licence.


You'll need to purchase a separate WinXP license for each computer
on which you install it.

Just as it has *always* been with *all* Microsoft operating
systems, it's necessary (to be in compliance with both the EULA and U.S.
copyright law http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/117.html), if not
technically) to purchase one WinXP license for each computer on which it
is installed. (Consult an attorney versed in copyright law to determine
final applicability in your locale.) The only way in which WinXP
licensing differs from that of earlier versions of Windows is that
Microsoft has finally added a copy protection and anti-theft mechanism,
Product Activation, to prevent (or at least make more difficult)
multiple installations using a single license.

One can buy additional licenses, assuming one already has a retail
license. Naturally, Microsoft cannot sell additional OEM licenses. Be
aware, however, that you'll probably pay more this way than you would if
you were to buy a second copy of WinXP from a discount retailer;
Microsoft will only offer you a 15% discount off their MSRP.

Additional Licenses for Windows XP Home Edition
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/howtobuy/addlic...

Additional Licenses for Windows XP Professional
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/howtobuy/addlic....


> I dont think I should have to spend another $150.00 for another copy.
>

Sounds like you already knew the answer before you posted.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH
September 15, 2005 12:17:23 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Walmart's cheaper :-)

Alias

"Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote

> If you have a "Retail Version" Windows XP CD, you can use the same CD
> to install on a different computer, providing you purchase a second
> license.
> http://shop.microsoft.com/special/wal/walinfo.asp
>
> --
> Carey Frisch
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows XP - Shell/User
> Microsoft Newsgroups
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Mixxdj" wrote:
>
> | Ok maybe I didnâ?Tt phrase it properly. I just want to know if I can
> install
> | windows on two computers. Can I buy a license for the second computer or
> do I
> | have to buy a new copy of windows.
>
September 15, 2005 2:09:39 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Mixxdj wrote:
> I own a copy of Windows XP Home SP1 it is installed on my desktop and I want
> to install it on my sons computer. Do I have to buy another copy or can I
> just buy another Licence.
> I dont think I should have to spend another $150.00 for another copy.

FYI: XP Home OEM (SP2) can be had at TigerDirect.com for $90.

Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition OEM Version with SP2
$89.99
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 4:41:32 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Asher_N wrote:
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
> news:o 3qZO7VuFHA.3068@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:
>
>> Asher_N wrote:
>>
>>> Because it's a contract that you have agreed to.
>>
>> No, it is a post-sale shrink-wrap license.
>>
>
> And by acepting it and installing the software, you are bound by it.

You may agree to be bound in servitude to MS, but I haven't, and I never
will. If MS doesn't like it, then they can sue me! And they don't have
the balls.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 4:45:54 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Bruce Chambers wrote:
> Mixxdj wrote:
>> I own a copy of Windows XP Home SP1 it is installed on my desktop
>> and I want to install it on my sons computer. Do I have to buy
>> another copy or can I just buy another Licence.
>
>
> You'll need to purchase a separate WinXP license for each computer
> on which you install it.
>
> Just as it has *always* been with *all* Microsoft operating
> systems, it's necessary (to be in compliance with both the EULA and
> U.S. copyright law http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/117.html),
> if not technically) to purchase one WinXP license for each computer
> on which it is installed. (Consult an attorney versed in copyright
> law to determine final applicability in your locale.) <snip>

IOW, don't believe Bruce, seek a real legal opinion. One that doesn't
confuse a Limitation on the rights of the COPYRIGHT OWNER as a
Limitation on the OWNER OF A COPY.

And if you follow the link Bruce gave, you'd see the Copyright law is a
LIMITATION ON THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS OF COPYRIGHT OWNERS!

Bruce is too narrow-minded to see reality.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 1:03:13 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Mixxdj" <Mixxdj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:09D80756-8687-4B11-9AA4-B542871E0947@microsoft.com...
> First I live in Canada and the best price I can find is $125.00, I can't
> understand why Microsoft Charges so much if they lowered the price to 75
or
> 85 dollars most people would buy windows.

Most people DO buy Windows.

> There would be allot less illegal
> copies of XP around and they would end up making more money in the long
run.
> Here I went out and bought XP and now I want to install it on a second
> computer in my house and it's going to cost me another $150. And Microsoft
> wonders why there are so many Pirate copies of windows.

Not so many since Activation was introduced.
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 1:14:13 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:o 3qZO7VuFHA.3068@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Asher_N wrote:
>
> > Because it's a contract that you have agreed to.
>
> No, it is a post-sale shrink-wrap license.
>

I recall reading a judgement in a Scotish law case that said the sale isn't
completed until the licence was agreed. In other words if you don't like the
license when you get to read it you can take the product back and get a
refund.

The judge also pointed out that the act of installing S/W on a computer
infringes normal copyright laws (because a copy is being made) - so in
theory some form of license has to be supplied with EVERY piece of
software. I can't immediatly see why the same thinking shouldn't be applied
to music CDs - even a dumb CD Walkman buffers fragments of the music in
memory for anti-shock reasons.
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 1:14:14 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"CWatters" <colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be> wrote in
news:FXaWe.194479$kv.10643506@phobos.telenet-ops.be:

>
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
> message news:o 3qZO7VuFHA.3068@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>> Asher_N wrote:
>>
>> > Because it's a contract that you have agreed to.
>>
>> No, it is a post-sale shrink-wrap license.
>>
>
> I recall reading a judgement in a Scotish law case that said the sale
> isn't completed until the licence was agreed. In other words if you
> don't like the license when you get to read it you can take the
> product back and get a refund.
>
> The judge also pointed out that the act of installing S/W on a
> computer infringes normal copyright laws (because a copy is being
> made) - so in theory some form of license has to be supplied with
> EVERY piece of software. I can't immediatly see why the same thinking
> shouldn't be applied to music CDs - even a dumb CD Walkman buffers
> fragments of the music in memory for anti-shock reasons.
>
>
>

Because the Walkman does not make a permanent, or even a complete copy.
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 2:00:40 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"old" devildog wrote:
> Going to do something I don't normally do, add an attachment. But I
> am doing so to show something.
>
> I scanned this right off of the back of the box. "post-sale
> shrink-wrap license" I think not. This is in plain sight on the back
> of the XP box. You are even told to check out the EULA before using.
> Unless yours came with a plain brown wrapper, it was easy to read.
>
> I am so tired of looking at the endless posts about who is right in
> this matter. Microsoft puts the warning in plain sight on the box. If
> you didn't see it, then get glasses, if you didn't read it then learn
> to read or have someone read it to you. If you decided to ignore it,
> then the words "dumb as a rock" comes to mind.
>
> Read the news, MS is cracking down on the unlicensed software out
> there. Look at what the recording industry is doing to the
> downloading of music. MS is right behind them. When you try an get an
> update from MS Updates and you fail the "test" do you think your ISP
> can't be noted, traced by court order, and a knock on your door by a
> processor server can't happen. Ask the people who kept swapping tunes
> on the internet. The court doesn't care who you are, all they care
> about is that you are now in court, going up against the biggest
> company in the world. The very company who wrote the software running
> on the judges desk right there in the court room. Bet you MS is soon
> for this path, and I bet it will come before the roll out of Vista.
> Are you willing to take the chance. By the way I have never failed
> the "test" to update or download any software from MS. The box tells
> it all. I purchased a full retail copy (not an OEM) of XP.
>

Sorry, but I don't open attachments from idiots I don't know.

I have certain rights as a human being. Privacy in my home, "fair use"
of the copyrighted material I buy. And MS thinks it can shrink-wrap
license away my rights, then they can sue me. But I won't be holding my
breath, since MS doesn't have the balls to do it.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 2:00:41 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Sorry, but I don't open attachments from idiots I don't know"
Well I don't know you either, but a simple jpg is right there. If you don't
want to look at the picture attached then you should look at the back of
your box that contained XP. If you don't have the box, then you received the
OS preinstalled with your PC (OEM). The agreement is right there on the
outside of the "recovery" CD(s) as well as the 'owners manual that came with
your PC. It was only to late for a refund if you installed the software. It
says "If you do not accept the terms of the License Agreement, you should
promptly return the product for a refund."

No refund after install is for the protection of the software company ( you
know what pirated software is don't you). Once you install it you now own
the "right" to use it. You don't own nor ever will, the software. You just
purchased the "right" to use it. Check your agreement, Microsoft retains
ownership of the software, you have only purchased the license to use it.
They may at any time remove your license, make you remove the software from
your computer, and remove from you any copies of the software.

I do expect Microsoft to take a stronger stance in dealing with "illegally"
obtained software. After all they have a staff of attorneys who make more in
a month than you will ever make in a lifetime. Microsoft can afford to stock
the very best in their legal department. Can you afford to fight them? I
sold software from many different companies over the years, but at every
time before selling the software to any client, I explained the agreement to
them in full before even closing the sale. Some of the software sold had to
have a renewal of the license every year, the cost of this was also
explained in full, as well as the results of not renewing the license, which
was the removal of the software and recovering of all the media used in the
install and operation of the software.

I think the reason you don't want to look, is because you don't want to know
you are wrong. Don't tell me you didn't know in advance before you installed
XP, tell it to a jury and a judge. Maybe they will belive you over the
attorney who is making 5+ million a year, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Because I am tired of this insane argument against Microsoft's EULA, I hope
that you find out the real truth soon. I think you need to contact an
attorney, and sit down and show him the EULA and your argument against it,
then hear it from someone who understands the law. I would say you are wrong
in your understanding of the license agrement, but you wouldn't listen
anyway. You are like my oldest son, he was never wrong. Even after he served
6 months in the county jail for underage DUI, the person who sold him the
beer was in the wrong, he was never wrong for drinking it or driving a car
after 3 six-packs. Excuses are like a**holes, everyones got one.

"old" devildog
Sgt. U.S.M.C.
--Semper Fi--
_________________________-

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:ucjUc3fuFHA.3932@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
| "old" devildog wrote:
| > Going to do something I don't normally do, add an attachment. But I
| > am doing so to show something.
| >
| > I scanned this right off of the back of the box. "post-sale
| > shrink-wrap license" I think not. This is in plain sight on the back
| > of the XP box. You are even told to check out the EULA before using.
| > Unless yours came with a plain brown wrapper, it was easy to read.
| >
| > I am so tired of looking at the endless posts about who is right in
| > this matter. Microsoft puts the warning in plain sight on the box. If
| > you didn't see it, then get glasses, if you didn't read it then learn
| > to read or have someone read it to you. If you decided to ignore it,
| > then the words "dumb as a rock" comes to mind.
| >
| > Read the news, MS is cracking down on the unlicensed software out
| > there. Look at what the recording industry is doing to the
| > downloading of music. MS is right behind them. When you try an get an
| > update from MS Updates and you fail the "test" do you think your ISP
| > can't be noted, traced by court order, and a knock on your door by a
| > processor server can't happen. Ask the people who kept swapping tunes
| > on the internet. The court doesn't care who you are, all they care
| > about is that you are now in court, going up against the biggest
| > company in the world. The very company who wrote the software running
| > on the judges desk right there in the court room. Bet you MS is soon
| > for this path, and I bet it will come before the roll out of Vista.
| > Are you willing to take the chance. By the way I have never failed
| > the "test" to update or download any software from MS. The box tells
| > it all. I purchased a full retail copy (not an OEM) of XP.
| >
|
| Sorry, but I don't open attachments from idiots I don't know.
|
| I have certain rights as a human being. Privacy in my home, "fair use"
| of the copyrighted material I buy. And MS thinks it can shrink-wrap
| license away my rights, then they can sue me. But I won't be holding my
| breath, since MS doesn't have the balls to do it.
|
| --
| Peace!
| Kurt
| Self-anointed Moderator
| microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
| http://microscum.com/mscommunity
| "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
| "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
|
|
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 2:07:08 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

CWatters wrote:
> "Mixxdj" <Mixxdj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:09D80756-8687-4B11-9AA4-B542871E0947@microsoft.com...
>> First I live in Canada and the best price I can find is $125.00, I
>> can't understand why Microsoft Charges so much if they lowered the
>> price to 75 or 85 dollars most people would buy windows.
>
> Most people DO buy Windows.
>
>> There would be allot less illegal
>> copies of XP around and they would end up making more money in the
>> long run. Here I went out and bought XP and now I want to install it
>> on a second computer in my house and it's going to cost me another
>> $150. And Microsoft wonders why there are so many Pirate copies of
>> windows.
>
> Not so many since Activation was introduced.

LOL! Activation stopped nothing.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 3:46:28 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"old" devildog wrote:
> "Sorry, but I don't open attachments from idiots I don't know"
> Well I don't know you either, but a simple jpg is right there. If you
> don't want to look at the picture attached then you should look at
> the back of your box that contained XP. If you don't have the box,
> then you received the OS preinstalled with your PC (OEM). The
> agreement is right there on the outside of the "recovery" CD(s) as
> well as the 'owners manual that came with your PC. It was only to
> late for a refund if you installed the software. It says "If you do
> not accept the terms of the License Agreement, you should promptly
> return the product for a refund."
>
> No refund after install is for the protection of the software company
> ( you know what pirated software is don't you). Once you install it
> you now own the "right" to use it. You don't own nor ever will, the
> software. You just purchased the "right" to use it. Check your
> agreement, Microsoft retains ownership of the software, you have only
> purchased the license to use it. They may at any time remove your
> license, make you remove the software from your computer, and remove
> from you any copies of the software.
>
> I do expect Microsoft to take a stronger stance in dealing with
> "illegally" obtained software. After all they have a staff of
> attorneys who make more in a month than you will ever make in a
> lifetime. Microsoft can afford to stock the very best in their legal
> department. Can you afford to fight them? I sold software from many
> different companies over the years, but at every time before selling
> the software to any client, I explained the agreement to them in full
> before even closing the sale. Some of the software sold had to have a
> renewal of the license every year, the cost of this was also
> explained in full, as well as the results of not renewing the
> license, which was the removal of the software and recovering of all
> the media used in the install and operation of the software.
>
> I think the reason you don't want to look, is because you don't want
> to know you are wrong. Don't tell me you didn't know in advance
> before you installed XP, tell it to a jury and a judge. Maybe they
> will belive you over the attorney who is making 5+ million a year,
> but I wouldn't bet on it.
>
> Because I am tired of this insane argument against Microsoft's EULA,
> I hope that you find out the real truth soon. I think you need to
> contact an attorney, and sit down and show him the EULA and your
> argument against it, then hear it from someone who understands the
> law. I would say you are wrong in your understanding of the license
> agrement, but you wouldn't listen anyway. You are like my oldest son,
> he was never wrong. Even after he served 6 months in the county jail
> for underage DUI, the person who sold him the beer was in the wrong,
> he was never wrong for drinking it or driving a car after 3
> six-packs. Excuses are like a**holes, everyones got one.
>
> "old" devildog
> Sgt. U.S.M.C.
> --Semper Fi--

If the entire EULA is written on the box, which I very much doubt, then
it is printed so small that it is unreadable.

If MS thinks it is being materially harmed by my private non-commercial
use of MY copy of software, then they can sue me. But they won't,
because they are too afraid that they would lose.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 3:46:29 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
news:uv#MkyguFHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:

> "old" devildog wrote:
>> "Sorry, but I don't open attachments from idiots I don't know"
>> Well I don't know you either, but a simple jpg is right there. If you
>> don't want to look at the picture attached then you should look at
>> the back of your box that contained XP. If you don't have the box,
>> then you received the OS preinstalled with your PC (OEM). The
>> agreement is right there on the outside of the "recovery" CD(s) as
>> well as the 'owners manual that came with your PC. It was only to
>> late for a refund if you installed the software. It says "If you do
>> not accept the terms of the License Agreement, you should promptly
>> return the product for a refund."
>>
>> No refund after install is for the protection of the software company
>> ( you know what pirated software is don't you). Once you install it
>> you now own the "right" to use it. You don't own nor ever will, the
>> software. You just purchased the "right" to use it. Check your
>> agreement, Microsoft retains ownership of the software, you have only
>> purchased the license to use it. They may at any time remove your
>> license, make you remove the software from your computer, and remove
>> from you any copies of the software.
>>
>> I do expect Microsoft to take a stronger stance in dealing with
>> "illegally" obtained software. After all they have a staff of
>> attorneys who make more in a month than you will ever make in a
>> lifetime. Microsoft can afford to stock the very best in their legal
>> department. Can you afford to fight them? I sold software from many
>> different companies over the years, but at every time before selling
>> the software to any client, I explained the agreement to them in full
>> before even closing the sale. Some of the software sold had to have a
>> renewal of the license every year, the cost of this was also
>> explained in full, as well as the results of not renewing the
>> license, which was the removal of the software and recovering of all
>> the media used in the install and operation of the software.
>>
>> I think the reason you don't want to look, is because you don't want
>> to know you are wrong. Don't tell me you didn't know in advance
>> before you installed XP, tell it to a jury and a judge. Maybe they
>> will belive you over the attorney who is making 5+ million a year,
>> but I wouldn't bet on it.
>>
>> Because I am tired of this insane argument against Microsoft's EULA,
>> I hope that you find out the real truth soon. I think you need to
>> contact an attorney, and sit down and show him the EULA and your
>> argument against it, then hear it from someone who understands the
>> law. I would say you are wrong in your understanding of the license
>> agrement, but you wouldn't listen anyway. You are like my oldest son,
>> he was never wrong. Even after he served 6 months in the county jail
>> for underage DUI, the person who sold him the beer was in the wrong,
>> he was never wrong for drinking it or driving a car after 3
>> six-packs. Excuses are like a**holes, everyones got one.
>>
>> "old" devildog
>> Sgt. U.S.M.C.
>> --Semper Fi--
>
> If the entire EULA is written on the box, which I very much doubt, then
> it is printed so small that it is unreadable.
>
It's been a while since I had a boxed copy of Windows, but I do ave a new
copy of VS 2003. The retail box says that I must accept the agreement
before use. The smaller box that contains the CDs says the same thing.
Each CD says to not lend or make illegal copies of the software. Inside
the retail box is a 8 page document containing the EULA.

> If MS thinks it is being materially harmed by my private non-commercial
> use of MY copy of software, then they can sue me. But they won't,
> because they are too afraid that they would lose.
>
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 5:45:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Asher_N wrote:

> It's been a while since I had a boxed copy of Windows, but I do ave a
> new copy of VS 2003. The retail box says that I must accept the
> agreement before use. The smaller box that contains the CDs says the
> same thing. Each CD says to not lend or make illegal copies of the
> software. Inside the retail box is a 8 page document containing the
> EULA.

So it is really a post-sale shrink-wrap license, since you don't get to
see the ALL of the terms until after the sale.

Then it comes down to interpretation.

SCO believes that IBM has violated the UNIX license. SCO's belief
doesn't mean dog-do unless they prove it in a court of law.

If MS thinks I've violated the Windows EULA, then they can sue me, but
they don't got the balls to do it, because they are afraid they'd lose.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 5:45:39 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in news:
#GMoJ1huFHA.2072@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:

> Asher_N wrote:
>
>> It's been a while since I had a boxed copy of Windows, but I do ave a
>> new copy of VS 2003. The retail box says that I must accept the
>> agreement before use. The smaller box that contains the CDs says the
>> same thing. Each CD says to not lend or make illegal copies of the
>> software. Inside the retail box is a 8 page document containing the
>> EULA.
>
> So it is really a post-sale shrink-wrap license, since you don't get to
> see the ALL of the terms until after the sale.
>

But you see them before you unseal the actual CDs. You can return the
software then. If the store refuses to take it back, contact MS.


> Then it comes down to interpretation.
>
> SCO believes that IBM has violated the UNIX license. SCO's belief
> doesn't mean dog-do unless they prove it in a court of law.
>
> If MS thinks I've violated the Windows EULA, then they can sue me, but
> they don't got the balls to do it, because they are afraid they'd lose.
>
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 7:25:44 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Asher_N wrote:
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in news:
> #GMoJ1huFHA.2072@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:
>
>> Asher_N wrote:
>>
>>> It's been a while since I had a boxed copy of Windows, but I do ave
>>> a new copy of VS 2003. The retail box says that I must accept the
>>> agreement before use. The smaller box that contains the CDs says the
>>> same thing. Each CD says to not lend or make illegal copies of the
>>> software. Inside the retail box is a 8 page document containing the
>>> EULA.
>>
>> So it is really a post-sale shrink-wrap license, since you don't get
>> to see the ALL of the terms until after the sale.
>>
>
> But you see them before you unseal the actual CDs.

No you don't.

> You can return the
> software then.

LOL!

> If the store refuses to take it back, contact MS.

F*#K MS. I'll use my copy of software according to what I feel is
legal, and if MS doesn't like it, then they can sue me.

That's how the law works. Of course MS would prove by a preponderance
of the evidence that they have a right to invade my privacy in my home,
that there EULA supercedes my right to "fair use" of my copy of
software, and that they been materially damaged by alleged breech of
terms.

MS won't do that, because there is a very good chance that they'd lose.

>> Then it comes down to interpretation.
>>
>> SCO believes that IBM has violated the UNIX license. SCO's belief
>> doesn't mean dog-do unless they prove it in a court of law.
>>
>> If MS thinks I've violated the Windows EULA, then they can sue me,
>> but they don't got the balls to do it, because they are afraid
>> they'd lose.

LOL! Do you think IBM should just give in to SCO's belief that IBM has
violated the Unix License?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 7:25:45 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in news:#
5Y4FtiuFHA.1472@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl:

> Asher_N wrote:
>> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in news:
>> #GMoJ1huFHA.2072@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:
>>
>>> Asher_N wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's been a while since I had a boxed copy of Windows, but I do ave
>>>> a new copy of VS 2003. The retail box says that I must accept the
>>>> agreement before use. The smaller box that contains the CDs says the
>>>> same thing. Each CD says to not lend or make illegal copies of the
>>>> software. Inside the retail box is a 8 page document containing the
>>>> EULA.
>>>
>>> So it is really a post-sale shrink-wrap license, since you don't get
>>> to see the ALL of the terms until after the sale.
>>>
>>
>> But you see them before you unseal the actual CDs.
>
> No you don't.

Yes you do. The EULA comes printed in the box. The CD sleeves are sealed
independently.


>
>> You can return the
>> software then.
>
> LOL!
>
>> If the store refuses to take it back, contact MS.
>
> F*#K MS. I'll use my copy of software according to what I feel is
> legal, and if MS doesn't like it, then they can sue me.
>

It's not about what you feel. It's about what the law says.

> That's how the law works. Of course MS would prove by a preponderance
> of the evidence that they have a right to invade my privacy in my home,
> that there EULA supercedes my right to "fair use" of my copy of
> software, and that they been materially damaged by alleged breech of
> terms.
>

The EULA is a contract that more narrowly redifens your rights granted
under copyright law. By agreeing to it, you agree to be bound by them.


> MS won't do that, because there is a very good chance that they'd lose.
>
>>> Then it comes down to interpretation.
>>>
>>> SCO believes that IBM has violated the UNIX license. SCO's belief
>>> doesn't mean dog-do unless they prove it in a court of law.
>>>
>>> If MS thinks I've violated the Windows EULA, then they can sue me,
>>> but they don't got the balls to do it, because they are afraid
>>> they'd lose.
>
> LOL! Do you think IBM should just give in to SCO's belief that IBM has
> violated the Unix License?
>
September 15, 2005 9:23:19 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

""old" devildog" <teyoungATmchsiDOTcom> wrote in message
news:%23VtDnWguFHA.3628@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> "Sorry, but I don't open attachments from idiots I don't know"
> Well I don't know you either, but a simple jpg is right there. If you
> don't
> want to look at the picture attached then you should look at the back of
> your box that contained XP. If you don't have the box, then you received
> the
> OS preinstalled with your PC (OEM).

Um, gerneric OEMs don't come with a box, nor is the EULA readable until you
open the packet and put the CD in your machine.

The agreement is right there on the
> outside of the "recovery" CD(s) as well as the 'owners manual that came
> with
> your PC. It was only to late for a refund if you installed the software.

No, it's too late after you open the package and before you can read the
EULA. Hence, a scam.

> It
> says "If you do not accept the terms of the License Agreement, you should
> promptly return the product for a refund."

Which can't be done. Catch 22 anyone?

Snip redundant drivel.

Alias
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 9:23:20 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

The EULA is presented on the internet to read before opening what ever
package it came in. It states that on the oem recovery disk, and the
"Owners" Manual I received with the purchase of my computer.

It gives this as the place to read the EULA....
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/eula.

It states that you need to "read the EULA before accepting the terms of the
license".

If you don't have a home computer all ready set up, I am sure your local
public library has one to go check it out first.

Your all beating a dead horse. The opportunity to view the EULA before using
is presented in a format that allows anyone to have access to read it. The
court will have a problem with the argument you never saw it first.

It is not to late to return the computer with all software, after reading
the EULA online, as long as you never set it up or removed anything more
than the manual from the box. In most states you can return any computer or
software as long as the computer was never set up or the software was never
open or installed. That is why MS has the warnings on the outside of all
packages, and requires that your owners manual has the same warning.
Ignorance is never an excuse. You should always read all books and follow
all instructions before attempting to set up and computer or software.
Besides this argument has been going on for so many years, only a fool would
say they never heard of the EULA and what it states about the rights to
"use" the software as long as you follow the license you purchased. See all
you purchased was a license to use the software, you never purchased the
software itself. The license comes with a media disk of some kind to
install the software. You do not own the software, you don't even own the
media it came on nor any copies you made of it. Plain and simple law. I know
I had a company lawyer for years to advise me about all aspects of my
business. He reviewed all software agreements before I purchased any
software for resale to any client. Over 20 years of selling hardware and
software gives me an edge on what is legal and what is not.

I will say it again you are beating a dead horse. You are wrong about "your
rights" under copyright laws. Software is understood by the courts as
different than books. MS didn't set this precedent in the courts, but Radio
Shack did with TRS-DOS over 25 years ago. A federal court in Texas decided
that software was not owned by the customer but that the license to use the
software, as permitted by the owner of the software, was what the customer
purchased. MS like all software companies today use this to enforce the
license. The Supreme Court of the United States refused to hear the case on
appeal, stating that the court in Texas had followed the laws present at
that time to reach a fair decision. End of battle. The license agreement
included with all software is "an agreement to allow you to use the
software, not own it".

You are never going to change the laws that govern this nor will you ever
change you mind. You , in your mind are right, to the software companies and
the "law of the land" you are wrong. Don't believe me take MS or any
software company to court. As long as the outside of the software or the
manual to install the hardware or software contains the license agreement or
a location you can view it, they are following the law.

Just because you never personally read the exact law in your state or
country against driving while under the influence, doesn't mean you can do
so. Tell that to a judge and see where you end up. Ignorance of the law is
no excuse. And your post here show you know and have been told the extent of
the license you purchased from MS. Strong evidence in court to use against
you if MS decides to use it against you.
Remember never put anything on the internet you don't want to see again in
the years to come. Some one always has an archive of it somewhere.

"old" devildog
U.S.M.C.
-- Simper Fi --

"Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote in message
news:eE$fnlguFHA.2960@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
|
| ""old" devildog" <teyoungATmchsiDOTcom> wrote in message
| news:%23VtDnWguFHA.3628@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
| > "Sorry, but I don't open attachments from idiots I don't know"
| > Well I don't know you either, but a simple jpg is right there. If you
| > don't
| > want to look at the picture attached then you should look at the back of
| > your box that contained XP. If you don't have the box, then you received
| > the
| > OS preinstalled with your PC (OEM).
|
| Um, gerneric OEMs don't come with a box, nor is the EULA readable until
you
| open the packet and put the CD in your machine.
|
| The agreement is right there on the
| > outside of the "recovery" CD(s) as well as the 'owners manual that came
| > with
| > your PC. It was only to late for a refund if you installed the software.
|
| No, it's too late after you open the package and before you can read the
| EULA. Hence, a scam.
|
| > It
| > says "If you do not accept the terms of the License Agreement, you
should
| > promptly return the product for a refund."
|
| Which can't be done. Catch 22 anyone?
|
| Snip redundant drivel.
|
| Alias
|
|
September 15, 2005 11:02:21 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

99% of Windows users do NOT know what EULA stands for and most of those
don't read it before installing Windows.

Hence, a scam, as MS and the other software giants are not ignorant of this
fact.

Alias

""old" devildog" <teyoungATmchsiDOTcom> wrote

Snip MS Toady drivel.

> "old" devildog
> U.S.M.C.
> -- Simper Fi --
>
> "Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote in message
> news:eE$fnlguFHA.2960@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> |
> | ""old" devildog" <teyoungATmchsiDOTcom> wrote in message
> | news:%23VtDnWguFHA.3628@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> | > "Sorry, but I don't open attachments from idiots I don't know"
> | > Well I don't know you either, but a simple jpg is right there. If you
> | > don't
> | > want to look at the picture attached then you should look at the back
> of
> | > your box that contained XP. If you don't have the box, then you
> received
> | > the
> | > OS preinstalled with your PC (OEM).
> |
> | Um, gerneric OEMs don't come with a box, nor is the EULA readable until
> you
> | open the packet and put the CD in your machine.
> |
> | The agreement is right there on the
> | > outside of the "recovery" CD(s) as well as the 'owners manual that
> came
> | > with
> | > your PC. It was only to late for a refund if you installed the
> software.
> |
> | No, it's too late after you open the package and before you can read the
> | EULA. Hence, a scam.
> |
> | > It
> | > says "If you do not accept the terms of the License Agreement, you
> should
> | > promptly return the product for a refund."
> |
> | Which can't be done. Catch 22 anyone?
> |
> | Snip redundant drivel.
> |
> | Alias
> |
> |
>
>
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 11:19:15 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Doesn't matter what MS thinks. There is no contract between the user and MS. There is one between MS and the seller and between the seller and the user.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://webdiary.smh.com.au/archives/_comment/001075.htm...
=================================================
""old" devildog" <teyoungATmchsiDOTcom> wrote in message news:%23IrgAtbuFHA.3740@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Going to do something I don't normally do, add an attachment. But I am doing
> so to show something.
>
> I scanned this right off of the back of the box. "post-sale shrink-wrap
> license" I think not. This is in plain sight on the back of the XP box. You
> are even told to check out the EULA before using. Unless yours came with a
> plain brown wrapper, it was easy to read.
>
> I am so tired of looking at the endless posts about who is right in this
> matter. Microsoft puts the warning in plain sight on the box. If you didn't
> see it, then get glasses, if you didn't read it then learn to read or have
> someone read it to you. If you decided to ignore it, then the words "dumb as
> a rock" comes to mind.
>
> Read the news, MS is cracking down on the unlicensed software out there.
> Look at what the recording industry is doing to the downloading of music. MS
> is right behind them. When you try an get an update from MS Updates and you
> fail the "test" do you think your ISP can't be noted, traced by court order,
> and a knock on your door by a processor server can't happen. Ask the people
> who kept swapping tunes on the internet. The court doesn't care who you are,
> all they care about is that you are now in court, going up against the
> biggest company in the world. The very company who wrote the software
> running on the judges desk right there in the court room. Bet you MS is soon
> for this path, and I bet it will come before the roll out of Vista. Are you
> willing to take the chance. By the way I have never failed the "test" to
> update or download any software from MS. The box tells it all. I purchased a
> full retail copy (not an OEM) of XP.
>
>
>
> "old" devildog
> --Simper Fi --
>
> "When I hit 50 I though, it's not that bad, now that I am pushing 60, all I
> can think of is where the hell are the brakes !"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
> news:o 3qZO7VuFHA.3068@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> | Asher_N wrote:
> |
> | > Because it's a contract that you have agreed to.
> |
> | No, it is a post-sale shrink-wrap license.
> |
> | --
> | Peace!
> | Kurt
> | Self-anointed Moderator
> | microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> | http://microscum.com/mscommunity
> | "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> | "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
> |
> |
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 11:19:16 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"David Candy" <.> wrote in news:ux0JOaduFHA.3236@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:

> Doesn't matter what MS thinks. There is no contract between the user
> and MS. There is one between MS and the seller and between the seller
> and the user.
>

The agreement is between you and the copyright holder (MS). Technically,
the seller only sells you the media. The rest of the cost is a licence fee.
The EULA spells out what you can do with the licence. You own the media but
not the contents.
September 15, 2005 11:19:17 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Asher_N" <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96D25E1749E98compguy666hotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
> "David Candy" <.> wrote in news:ux0JOaduFHA.3236@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:
>
>> Doesn't matter what MS thinks. There is no contract between the user
>> and MS. There is one between MS and the seller and between the seller
>> and the user.
>>
>
> The agreement is between you and the copyright holder (MS). Technically,
> the seller only sells you the media. The rest of the cost is a licence
> fee.
> The EULA spells out what you can do with the licence. You own the media
> but
> not the contents.

Bullcrap. I don't see any musical groups or singers suing anyone for breach
of copyright. I see the music *companies* suing.

As the EULA is not available until it's too late to get your money back, the
EULA is a scam and deserves no respect.

Go to any computer store's web site and XP is listed as "software", not a
licence so the scam even begins before you buy the CD.

Alias
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 11:19:17 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Asher_N wrote:
> "David Candy" <.> wrote in news:ux0JOaduFHA.3236@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:
>
>> Doesn't matter what MS thinks. There is no contract between the user
>> and MS. There is one between MS and the seller and between the seller
>> and the user.
>>
>
> The agreement is between you and the copyright holder (MS).
> Technically, the seller only sells you the media. The rest of the
> cost is a licence fee. The EULA spells out what you can do with the
> licence. You own the media but not the contents.

LOL! You have every right to believe the earth is flat. That does not
mean that the earth really is flat.

I purchased the copy of software from the previous owner, the retailer.
Transfer of ownership occurred at the time of sale.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 11:19:18 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote in
news:o NOBjwfuFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:

>
> "Asher_N" <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D25E1749E98compguy666hotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
>> "David Candy" <.> wrote in
>> news:ux0JOaduFHA.3236@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:
>>
>>> Doesn't matter what MS thinks. There is no contract between the user
>>> and MS. There is one between MS and the seller and between the
>>> seller and the user.
>>>
>>
>> The agreement is between you and the copyright holder (MS).
>> Technically, the seller only sells you the media. The rest of the
>> cost is a licence fee.
>> The EULA spells out what you can do with the licence. You own the
>> media but
>> not the contents.
>
> Bullcrap. I don't see any musical groups or singers suing anyone for
> breach of copyright. I see the music *companies* suing.
>
> As the EULA is not available until it's too late to get your money
> back, the EULA is a scam and deserves no respect.
>
> Go to any computer store's web site and XP is listed as "software",
> not a licence so the scam even begins before you buy the CD.
>
> Alias
>
>

And software is an entity protected under copyright law. Only the holder
of the copyright owns the work. While you pay for the rights to use, you
never actually own it.

You have a choice of not accepting the EULA and returning the product.
The box also spells out that Windows is intended to install on a single
computer.
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 11:19:18 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
news:eOQSn5fuFHA.3660@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:

> Asher_N wrote:
>> "David Candy" <.> wrote in news:ux0JOaduFHA.3236@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:
>>
>>> Doesn't matter what MS thinks. There is no contract between the user
>>> and MS. There is one between MS and the seller and between the seller
>>> and the user.
>>>
>>
>> The agreement is between you and the copyright holder (MS).
>> Technically, the seller only sells you the media. The rest of the
>> cost is a licence fee. The EULA spells out what you can do with the
>> licence. You own the media but not the contents.
>
> LOL! You have every right to believe the earth is flat. That does not
> mean that the earth really is flat.
>
> I purchased the copy of software from the previous owner, the retailer.
> Transfer of ownership occurred at the time of sale.
>

That's were you are fundamentely wrong. You never purchase copyrighted
material. You pay for the rights to use it.
September 15, 2005 11:19:19 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Asher_N" <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96D26722A5B9Ecompguy666hotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
> "Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote in
> news:o NOBjwfuFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:
>
>>
>> "Asher_N" <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns96D25E1749E98compguy666hotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
>>> "David Candy" <.> wrote in
>>> news:ux0JOaduFHA.3236@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:
>>>
>>>> Doesn't matter what MS thinks. There is no contract between the user
>>>> and MS. There is one between MS and the seller and between the
>>>> seller and the user.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The agreement is between you and the copyright holder (MS).
>>> Technically, the seller only sells you the media. The rest of the
>>> cost is a licence fee.
>>> The EULA spells out what you can do with the licence. You own the
>>> media but
>>> not the contents.
>>
>> Bullcrap. I don't see any musical groups or singers suing anyone for
>> breach of copyright. I see the music *companies* suing.
>>
>> As the EULA is not available until it's too late to get your money
>> back, the EULA is a scam and deserves no respect.
>>
>> Go to any computer store's web site and XP is listed as "software",
>> not a licence so the scam even begins before you buy the CD.
>>
>> Alias
>>
>>
>
> And software is an entity protected under copyright law.

But you said I didn't buy any software but permission to use software. Which
is it?

> Only the holder
> of the copyright owns the work. While you pay for the rights to use, you
> never actually own it.

Like I said, a scam. Here, I am going to sell you "something" you won't own.

> You have a choice of not accepting the EULA and returning the product.

No, you don't. If you open the package and begin installation, *that's* when
you get to read the EULA and you cannot return opened software for a refund.
Do you understand the scam yet?

> The box also spells out that Windows is intended to install on a single
> computer.

I never questioned that so why do you bring it up? I do think it's ripping
off families that have two or more computers to require that but we all know
that MS is in the business of ripping off their customers and showing no
respect for their customers by making them prove, twice, that the
software/licence or whatever you want to call it, was not a pirated copy.
Accusing your paying customers of piracy until they prove differently
through a proven, flawed test is not very good PR.

Alias
September 15, 2005 11:19:19 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Asher_N" <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96D268078ECA9compguy666hotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
> news:eOQSn5fuFHA.3660@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:
>
>> Asher_N wrote:
>>> "David Candy" <.> wrote in news:ux0JOaduFHA.3236@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:
>>>
>>>> Doesn't matter what MS thinks. There is no contract between the user
>>>> and MS. There is one between MS and the seller and between the seller
>>>> and the user.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The agreement is between you and the copyright holder (MS).
>>> Technically, the seller only sells you the media. The rest of the
>>> cost is a licence fee. The EULA spells out what you can do with the
>>> licence. You own the media but not the contents.
>>
>> LOL! You have every right to believe the earth is flat. That does not
>> mean that the earth really is flat.
>>
>> I purchased the copy of software from the previous owner, the retailer.
>> Transfer of ownership occurred at the time of sale.
>>
>
> That's were you are fundamentely wrong. You never purchase copyrighted
> material. You pay for the rights to use it.

Then why do ALL the computer stores in the world say they sell XP software?
And NONE of them say they sell a licence to use XP software?

To perpetuate the scam, per chance?

Alias
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 11:19:19 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Asher_N wrote:
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
> news:eOQSn5fuFHA.3660@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:
>
>> Asher_N wrote:
>>> "David Candy" <.> wrote in
>>> news:ux0JOaduFHA.3236@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:
>>>
>>>> Doesn't matter what MS thinks. There is no contract between the
>>>> user and MS. There is one between MS and the seller and between
>>>> the seller and the user.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The agreement is between you and the copyright holder (MS).
>>> Technically, the seller only sells you the media. The rest of the
>>> cost is a licence fee. The EULA spells out what you can do with the
>>> licence. You own the media but not the contents.
>>
>> LOL! You have every right to believe the earth is flat. That does
>> not mean that the earth really is flat.
>>
>> I purchased the copy of software from the previous owner, the
>> retailer. Transfer of ownership occurred at the time of sale.
>>
>
> That's were you are fundamentely wrong. You never purchase copyrighted
> material. You pay for the rights to use it.

I own my copy of copyrighted material, and I have the right to use it as
a condition of its sale.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 11:19:20 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote in
news:u8fqvCguFHA.128@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:

>
> "Asher_N" <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D26722A5B9Ecompguy666hotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
>> "Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote in
>> news:o NOBjwfuFHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:
>>
>>>
>>> "Asher_N" <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns96D25E1749E98compguy666hotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
>>>> "David Candy" <.> wrote in
>>>> news:ux0JOaduFHA.3236@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:
>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't matter what MS thinks. There is no contract between the
>>>>> user and MS. There is one between MS and the seller and between
>>>>> the seller and the user.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The agreement is between you and the copyright holder (MS).
>>>> Technically, the seller only sells you the media. The rest of the
>>>> cost is a licence fee.
>>>> The EULA spells out what you can do with the licence. You own the
>>>> media but
>>>> not the contents.
>>>
>>> Bullcrap. I don't see any musical groups or singers suing anyone for
>>> breach of copyright. I see the music *companies* suing.
>>>
>>> As the EULA is not available until it's too late to get your money
>>> back, the EULA is a scam and deserves no respect.
>>>
>>> Go to any computer store's web site and XP is listed as "software",
>>> not a licence so the scam even begins before you buy the CD.
>>>
>>> Alias
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And software is an entity protected under copyright law.
>
> But you said I didn't buy any software but permission to use software.
> Which is it?
>

You can never buy copyrighted material. You either pay for the certain
rights to it, or you buy the copyright itself.


>> Only the holder
>> of the copyright owns the work. While you pay for the rights to use,
>> you never actually own it.
>
> Like I said, a scam. Here, I am going to sell you "something" you
> won't own.
>

That's what happens to any copyrighted material. How much rights do you
have to the contents of a book?


>> You have a choice of not accepting the EULA and returning the
>> product.
>
> No, you don't. If you open the package and begin installation,
> *that's* when you get to read the EULA and you cannot return opened
> software for a refund. Do you understand the scam yet?
>

That is the store's policy. If you took it to court and could prove that
you never installed the product, you'd be entitled to a refund.

>> The box also spells out that Windows is intended to install on a
>> single computer.
>
> I never questioned that so why do you bring it up? I do think it's
> ripping off families that have two or more computers to require that
> but we all know that MS is in the business of ripping off their
> customers and showing no respect for their customers by making them
> prove, twice, that the software/licence or whatever you want to call
> it, was not a pirated copy. Accusing your paying customers of piracy
> until they prove differently through a proven, flawed test is not very
> good PR.
>

What you think is irrelevant. The license says that you can install that
copyrighted work on a single machine. You have the right to either abide
by that, or not use the product.

> Alias
>
>
>
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 11:19:20 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote in
news:o pRiqDguFHA.992@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl:

>
> "Asher_N" <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D268078ECA9compguy666hotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
>> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
>> news:eOQSn5fuFHA.3660@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:
>>
>>> Asher_N wrote:
>>>> "David Candy" <.> wrote in
>>>> news:ux0JOaduFHA.3236@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:
>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't matter what MS thinks. There is no contract between the
>>>>> user and MS. There is one between MS and the seller and between
>>>>> the seller and the user.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The agreement is between you and the copyright holder (MS).
>>>> Technically, the seller only sells you the media. The rest of the
>>>> cost is a licence fee. The EULA spells out what you can do with the
>>>> licence. You own the media but not the contents.
>>>
>>> LOL! You have every right to believe the earth is flat. That does
>>> not mean that the earth really is flat.
>>>
>>> I purchased the copy of software from the previous owner, the
>>> retailer. Transfer of ownership occurred at the time of sale.
>>>
>>
>> That's were you are fundamentely wrong. You never purchase
>> copyrighted material. You pay for the rights to use it.
>
> Then why do ALL the computer stores in the world say they sell XP
> software? And NONE of them say they sell a licence to use XP software?
>
> To perpetuate the scam, per chance?
>
> Alias
>
>
>

For the same reason that bookstore say they sell books. Possession of a
physical media does not transfer ownership of the content.
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 11:19:20 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
news:ee3oVQguFHA.1572@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:

> Asher_N wrote:
>> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in
>> news:eOQSn5fuFHA.3660@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:
>>
>>> Asher_N wrote:
>>>> "David Candy" <.> wrote in
>>>> news:ux0JOaduFHA.3236@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl:
>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't matter what MS thinks. There is no contract between the
>>>>> user and MS. There is one between MS and the seller and between
>>>>> the seller and the user.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The agreement is between you and the copyright holder (MS).
>>>> Technically, the seller only sells you the media. The rest of the
>>>> cost is a licence fee. The EULA spells out what you can do with the
>>>> licence. You own the media but not the contents.
>>>
>>> LOL! You have every right to believe the earth is flat. That does
>>> not mean that the earth really is flat.
>>>
>>> I purchased the copy of software from the previous owner, the
>>> retailer. Transfer of ownership occurred at the time of sale.
>>>
>>
>> That's were you are fundamentely wrong. You never purchase copyrighted
>> material. You pay for the rights to use it.
>
> I own my copy of copyrighted material, and I have the right to use it
as
> a condition of its sale.
>

You own limited rights of use. You can't buy a book and the re-sell it
claiming that you were the author.
September 15, 2005 11:19:21 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Asher_N" <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> What you think is irrelevant.

New motto for Microsoft and the other giant software companies?

Alias
!