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Upgrade Path

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March 30, 2004 10:03:19 AM

Im looking at Upgrading my P4 System,

I have a Intel D850EMVL2 Mothboard and i was wondering if there is any advantage of putting in a P4EE cpu? what would i see increase in performance

Cheers

Jc

More about : upgrade path

March 30, 2004 10:14:52 AM

What's your current CPU, RAM, etc?
March 30, 2004 10:20:13 AM

CPU 2.4
512Mb Rambus
GeForce FX 5700 Ultra
Creative Live 5.1
Related resources
March 30, 2004 10:23:49 AM

Your mobo doesn't support the fsb of the P4EE. It wont work at normal speed on your board.
March 30, 2004 10:25:21 AM

Yes i know that it can't run at the 800 FSB but it will work at 533.
March 30, 2004 10:31:58 AM

So, you buy a 3.2, for a grand, but run it at 2.1? Nope, buy a new board as well. At 2.1 gigs, that chip would be slower than what you have now.You will need new ram as well.

Without the dual channel memory, you will also take a hit.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by endyen on 03/30/04 06:38 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 30, 2004 10:37:59 AM

ermm no,

If you decrease the FSB from 800
(3.2Ghz 800 FSB = 4X multiplyer)
(3.2Ghz 533 FSB = 6x multiplyer)
All it will do it Increase the multiplayer to get the same CPU frequency! you will notice alot of NEW aBIT and "third party" intel Chipset Boards have a factory set "QUATER-FSB"

Limiting the FSB down to 200 even 133 on certin Shuttle PC's

It will Run at 3.2 just using 533 FSB and a higher Multiplyer. The fact that my Board can only take a 3.0 ghz is the only problem.

I should probably go to a 3.06Ghz, i just wanted to know if the EE would improve my RAMBUS but i guess not
March 30, 2004 10:43:22 AM

I thought the EE had a fixed multiplier. If you are getting an engineer sample, diferent story.
The 800 fsb and dual channel mem make up almost 20% of the perf of that chip.
March 30, 2004 10:46:44 AM

the 3.2EE will work at ~2.1Ghz, which will likely perform slightly worse than your current CPU.

so, you can pay $900 for an 'upgrade' which will give you no noticeable performance difference....

or you could spend:
P4C 2.8Ghz - $182
2x 512Mb OCZ PC4000 - $129x2 = $258
Abit IS7 - $97

total = $537
stick that in your system, and it'll completely cream your system with a 2.1Ghz P4EE, for over $400 less.

Plus you'd be able to overclock it easily to beyond 3Ghz. likely beyond 3.2Ghz.

Or perhaps upgrade to an A64 system instead? That's a good option if your budget would stretch to a P4EE - you must have wads of cash lying around....

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
March 30, 2004 10:47:13 AM

Yeah cos the 2mb LVL 3 Cache improves the ram alot!

But sadly not in my case as i have rambus :( 
The reason i am not buying a new board it BECAUSE i wanna keep my rambus as it ROCKS
March 30, 2004 10:50:48 AM

1) Will never touch AMD EVER!
2) I will never touch ABIT (90% Of their board are Factory set to UNDER the standard FSB for intel Chips
3) WHY would i want DUAL CHANNEL DDR?
put a 3.06Ghz 533 P4 in my system Slap another 512 rambus and it would cream a 3.2 with 1gb Dual Channel

RAM = £300 - £400 Dependant on which manufac
March 30, 2004 10:52:35 AM

Rambus doesn't rock. It's horribly expensive and doesn't confer any advantage over dual channel DDR400, not these days...

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
March 30, 2004 10:54:11 AM

Explain to me How rambus works! - and go to www.intel.com and view the architecture of the 850 Chipset

AND THEN say that again
March 30, 2004 10:58:26 AM

Quote:
put a 3.06Ghz 533 P4 in my system Slap another 512 rambus and it would cream a 3.2 with 1gb Dual Channel

nope. not a chance in hell. Plus if you bought the Stuff I listed above, you'd be good for 230Mhz FSB, which would leave your RAMbus system miles behind.

Quote:
WHY would i want DUAL CHANNEL DDR?

because then the supplied bandwidth matches the P4C's bus, as it's QDR, therefore better performance.

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
March 30, 2004 11:02:10 AM

Dual Channel runs through the MCH Chip then the CPU, Running in pairs. using the same styl and rambus
Appart from rambus has a Direct CPU bridge running 80 Channel if you use it to the full extent.

This give a MUCH higher Performace as there is no middle man

this is why it is more expensive and Faster.

I build DUAL Channel Machine Hyper X ram from Kingston using 3.4Ghz P4 Prescott not the EE and My work PC which is a 3.06P4 with 1.5Gb of 1066 Rambus Is still faster.
March 30, 2004 11:03:30 AM

i think you should stick to your software dude!
March 30, 2004 11:04:35 AM

850 WAS designed to use Rambus. so I don't see what my reading Intel's specs will do, as it will obviously be better with it.

That's why I suggested getting an i865 board instead, as it's designed for DC DDR.

you haven't been paying attention for a few years, it would seem.

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
March 30, 2004 11:06:04 AM

i would rather an 876PBZ,
March 30, 2004 11:07:44 AM

*875PBZ - the reading of the intel spec would give u an idea as to why rambus is faster than Dual Channel.

Rambus is still widly used in th Xeon systems and Now that intel has won their law suit and have full rights to rambus. Things will be changing alot!
March 30, 2004 11:11:13 AM

I wonder if he read your sig. Does he know how much your system would blow a P4b 3.06 with rdram out of the water?
March 30, 2004 11:15:05 AM

lol, nevermind.
i guess poeple are to used to using middle range hardware.

its all ok, i expect you to understand the reasons why its faster, it just is.
i know this, intel know this.
March 30, 2004 11:17:25 AM

I suspect not. I also suspect He'd point out that my AMD rig is going to turn into a fusion reactor, judging by his earlier comments.

Apparently he's a 'Computer Technician'. And he thinks Abit make bad motherboards.

Sounds like he knows better than the rest of us...

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
March 30, 2004 11:20:08 AM

Yes, i work for a small company that build High End PC's
www.axiumcomputercentre.com,

And all the information i get is from intel site as i am a channel Member, (this means i am invited to all the intel Confrences) IPI number 9675
March 30, 2004 11:41:54 AM

Quote:
Dual Channel runs through the MCH Chip then the CPU,

That's so amazingly different to <A HREF="http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/850/index.htm?iid=..." target="_new">Intel's 850 RDRAM chipset</A> which you so love....

oh, and i875 is a DDR chipset, NOT RDRAM.... but then you said 876 in the previous post.. you seem a little confused here buddy.

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
March 30, 2004 12:02:40 PM

You're either trolling or clueless. Rambus is better than SDRAM, but the ancient 850 is no match for current dual channel DDR setups. And wanting to plug a $1000 cpu in a 533 MHz board really makes me wonder what you sell your customers...

If you love rambus so much (even more than intel, which has abandonded it for good reason), you can always get a SiS R659 based motherboard; at least it supports 800 MHz FSB P4's and up to PC1200 RDRAM if you can find any. With PC1066 it might perform only a little worse than a typical 875 setup with DDR400 costing roughly 3x less instead of MUCH worse with a 850 with 533 FSB and PC800.

Sounds like a good deal for you, in combination with a P4EE you'll have a super expensive setup that gets trashed by A64/FX systems and probably even 875/P4C systems costing only a fraction; but hey, its super expensive and rare, so therefore it must be good, right ? Have you considered buying a $4.000 Itanium 2 with 6 MB cache ? those things run windows and x86 software as well, and are expensive as hell. I bet they are even better !

Enjoy !

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
March 30, 2004 12:18:31 PM

1) The 876 was a typo.. look at the post down.. *875,

Also i never said that an 875 was a rambus machine. i just i would rather have that compaired to a 865

I said i would rather stick to a RAMBUS machine than a DDR.

What we sell our customers has nothingto do with what i am talking about here.. if you want to know what we sell look at the webpage. (www.axiumcomputercentre.com)

I know that Intel abandonded rambus for public sector machines. But XEON machines still use rambus, with the nice and fast 1600mhz RD ram.. 32Bit rather than 16bit.

I wont go into why intel stopped using rambus for public, as it was down to a legal matter with another other company. If you were at the last Conferance then you would know that intel now have the rights to rambus and other companies making Dual Channel Might have to pay Royalties to Intel for using the same sort of technology as rambus (but you wouldn't of knowen that unless u are an intel member)

Also i would rather have a Quad XEON system, 128Bit chips 1.6ghz rambus, and there are also better ones out there.. 16 Chip systems.. if you got the money.. about £40 grand
March 30, 2004 12:26:16 PM

P.S my i ask where u got the "i875"?
March 30, 2004 12:40:01 PM

Also CHIP, the link u gave was for 400 FSB 850,

On the 850e (400/533 FSB - if u have 400 FSB CPU u can use the 800-40 RD and 800-45 but on the 533 CPU's u can only use 800-40)
it is still the same. The Archetecture i saw was different, but as it shows it on the intel site, i guess i must be mistaken, or wrongly informed
March 30, 2004 12:49:57 PM

Jc1024 is pathetic!

Wow! You are right P4Man, we really don't need this kind of "high-tech" guy here! Come on, he clain, he builds high-end system... Have you check is WEB SITE? <A HREF="http://www.axiumcomputercentre.com/" target="_new">Would you ever buy from them?</A> It don't look professionnal at all. And on the top of that, it don't render well under anything that is not MSIE.

Well, I prefer to talk to people like you P4Man that to talk to someone like this guy.. Wait, maybe it's Kavanit with a new username? :smile:

--
Would you buy a potato powered chipset?
March 30, 2004 12:56:44 PM

oooh, a miltant fanboy! Man I love your logic. I'm a member of Intel conference so I know better? Yeeeeaah, that works :rolleyes:

Presumably you're after a desktop (or public sector, as you call it) system improvement. Surely if your beloved intel have abandonned it <b>on the desktop platform</b> then that sends a message to the intel lovers?

If you're determined on sticking with 533 p4b's and rambus 9and damn the price and performance hits!) then go ahead. But when you get bad scores in benchmarks compared to a p4c with ddr400 dual channel,, dont come crying back here, eh?

XP2000, 256ddr 2100ram, GF4 MX440, XP Pro
March 30, 2004 1:00:09 PM

>I said i would rather stick to a RAMBUS machine than a DDR.

Be my guest, get a SiS R659 to match your P4EE, pay $1000 for a 32 bit chip that is like 5% faster than a run of the mill P4C, pay $400 for a gig of PC1066 ram and get a system that likely underperforms a 875 setup, not even to mention it would get trashed silly by a cheaper Athlon FX box.

>What we sell our customers has nothingto do with what i am
>talking about here.. i

No, you sell your poor customers crappy dual channel DDR systems instead of those phantom 1600 MHz RDRAM systems, and you promise upgradeablity to 3.8 GHz P4s which will never happen on socket 478.

> But XEON machines still use rambus,with the nice and fast 1600mhz RD ram.. 32Bit rather than 16bit.

You're dreaming.. delusional..

>I wont go into why intel stopped using rambus for public

Please don't. Spare us your clueless nonsense.

>Also i would rather have a Quad XEON system, 128Bit chips

Like I said, delusional. Seek help. Start by helping your customers, and look for another job.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
March 30, 2004 1:11:07 PM

differences between 875 and 865 are very minimal... support for ECC RAM and PAT, with the latter actually available on many 865 boards, albeit under a different name (as the mobo manufacturers found workarounds).

If it was absolutely money-no-issue, then 875 would of course be a good choice, but when you're overclocking the crap out of everything then the performance difference is probably 1% or less, so it's hard to justify the price premium of 875 over 865, which is why I (and most others round here) routinely recommend 865 to people.

I have heard rumors that Rambus may well be re-appearing soon. I have nothing against the stuff (bar the price), but it's just not feasable to use ATM.

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
March 30, 2004 1:33:31 PM

>it don't look professionnal at all. And on the top of that,
>it don't render well under anything that is not MSIE.

It works just fine under opera, and it doesnt even look all that bad IMHO even though using flash in frames for displaying nothing but static text is silly. And their http://www.olcs.net/ website (same company) doesnt work at all (maybe with IE, not crazy enough to test it).

Here is my guess: Jc1024 is a 12 year old kid, his dad runs a shop and once told him something about intel being better.

For his 10th birthday and because he finally made his grade on school after 3 years of failure, he got a -then- state of the art 850 RDRAM P4 setup he is emotially attached to, as his father kept telling him how unearthly expensive those 256 Mb's of ram where. The only reason he got the system however, was because no one was buying it in the first place.

Daddy doesnt sell AMD systems, because his customers mainly are clueless friends and relatives he can rip off selling overpriced Celerons instead. Also, achieving those 10 systems sold per year grants his dad this magical "channel partner" status which is fairly impressive, we all have to admit. He even got a number from intel, how's that for achievement ? If he offered AMD based systems, he'd likely no longer achieve the 10 intel systems per year criterium, so he avoids them.

Too bad he doesnt understand that PR crap intel sends its partners is meant to help brainwash customers, you are not supposed to read and believe it yourselve, but oh well..

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
March 30, 2004 3:07:50 PM

:eek:  Glad I've never said anything to annoy you guys... :wink:

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
March 30, 2004 11:40:57 PM

I want to know what kind of a "high tech, high end " builder doesn't know what chip goes with what chipset. The poor sob has probably lost his job, for his posting here though. He has my pity.
March 31, 2004 1:07:29 AM

Wow, just read this topic for the first time. ROFLMBO :lol: 

I think he must be on evening security or the janitorial staff and not building cutting edge computers. I would so love to do my usual and write a book to him (edit:wrote the book to you all instead), but you less wordy guys have already seemed to put him in his place... to all except himself maybe. Shoot, guess he missed the reviews when the 865pe/875p mobos and P4 800 bus chips first came out. Where a 2.8C on i875/ or an enhanced i865pe was faster than a 3.06B on i850 with rambus. Oh well, thanks for the laughs guys. I wish i could figure out that trick where lowing the FSB increases the locked multiplier. That could breath life into this KT266a I'm on right now. Ooh baby, just let him buy the $900 2.1GHz EE and we can all compare some benchies with him.

Ahhhhh!!!, if a P4 3.2 800 bus chip needs a 4 multiplier, I've been running my 2.6C with way too high a multiplier. Stinking Abit IS7. It won't let me set the multiplier to 3.25 !!! I don't think I'll buy Abit again either. Luckily trash is collected tomorrow so i can put these NF7's and IS7's down at the curb tonight.

LOL, Man, I'm tired, GN.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 03/30/04 09:17 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 31, 2004 2:45:17 AM

Probably a great meeting , everyone sits down.. "Well, i don't think the public noticed us stealing AMD's architecture for a change..., I sure am glad we have intel zealots out there brainwashed about RAMBUS"
That's the way i like it.. let's ignore AMD and Linux while we are at it.

*[-peep-].. why did i bumb this? we love drama...*

Let's turn this into AMD vs. Intel fight now? I think we've proved that Rambus is retarded.. at least for now. Or wait.. seems like Intel might have decided forever.

Since you are a computer technician and your are Intel, then at the next meeting ask them what RIMM stands for.

<A HREF="http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=277124623" target="_new">http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=277124623...;/A>
46,510 , movin on up. 48k new goal. Maybe not.. :/ 
March 31, 2004 6:05:20 AM

STFU ALL OF YOU!!!

My stomach hurts from laughing so much.



"" Society is to blame ""
a b à CPUs
March 31, 2004 6:08:09 AM

ermm no,

Your math is all wrong. You're basing you CPU bus multiplier on your RAM bus, which is all wrong.

The CPU bus is 133MHz clock for 533MHz data rate, 200MHz clock for 800MHz data rate. But the MULTIPLIER is based on the CLOCK SPEED, 133MHz or 200MHz.

The 3.2EE runs at 200MHz x16. Forget the data rates, the multiplier runs off actual clock rate.

Unless you can change your clock multiplier from 16x to 24x, your processor will never run 3.2GHz on a "533" bus max board. I'm not sure if the EE multiplier is locked or not, but I'm nearly certain the Dell BIOS doesn't allow you to change it even if it is unlocked.

Look around for post, there are people less knowledgeable than you putting 2.6C's on their i850E chipset Dells and they only get 1733MHz out of them. In the case of the 2.6C, the multiplier is locked at 13x.

Before you go off on a tangent, I KNOW you COULD adjust the RAM multiplier in order to drop the speed and make your RAM work. But we're not talking RAM here.

Go ahead and check, I don't think you'll find a 24x manual multiplier adjustment in your Dell BIOS.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
March 31, 2004 7:27:50 AM

Too late crash, I think we've scared him off...

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
!