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Kinney sets the new standard of hypocrisy

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April 8, 2004 8:18:40 PM

Few days ago, I thought Dark_Archonis was the worst hypocrite ever existed in THGC. But Kinney has proved me wrong. I thought he's AMD + nVidia version of Dark_Archonis. Now he proved that he's a two faced person. In recent past, he created a 200 post long useless thread, "I see no reason to go Intel", though there was few strong reasons to go Intel. Now he ruined a thread (where somebody asked for help) with very obvious pro-Intel comments! He tells every neutral non-hypocrite people "AMD fanboy, because they didn't think today's the worst Intel processor (P4 2.4 "Prescott" 533 FSB, No HT) next to Celerons as a good purchase.

Both times he said about himself "I'm neutral, I see the light and showing others'...". Very much Dark_Archonis like, who was also known as the Intel priest. But Kinney has surpassed him by long shot; because he has did the same thing with under both AMD and Intel banner.

Here I'm making a quick comparison of previous Kinney and current Kinney:

<b><font color=green>Kinney (before)</font color=green></b>

1) AMD64 is a must have

2) No reason to buy Intel

3) Current VIA chipsets are fine

4) A64 pricing is OK

5) P4Man is the greatest and most honorable poster in THGC


<b><font color=blue>Kinney (now)</font color=blue></b>

1) AMD64 is useless piece of trash. We still don't know about 100% compatibility of AMD64 and Intel's EMT64

2) A64 3000+ is going to be obsolete very soon.

3) VIA chipsets are the worst in the world.

4) A64s are overpriced, AMD is ripping us off

5) Crippled version of "already proven inferior" Prescott is a very good purchase, because it overclocks well.

6) Only AMD fanobys will buy A64s and will not buy P4 2.4A (Prescott)

7) HT/SSE3 are must have techs. HT makes all non-HT processors in the market obsolete, class "B" product

8) Socket 754 was doomed before it was born, so we should avoid it at all costs.

9) To show example of cheap reliable socket 478 mobo, he shows a $39 refurbished junk, which is nothing but a hit-or-miss purchase with no warranty.

10) P4Man is the worst AMD fanboy in the world. In his words, P4Man is "stubborn hate monger", he doesn't like him, talking to P4Man is like talking to tree. Let's quote his exact words-

<i>"Oh wow. Its P4man.
Everybody clap.
Worlds biggest AMD fanboy.

Yay.
I'm not even going to bother responding to your "points" as they arent even much different than things I've already responded to in this thread.
Plus talking to you is like talking to a tree.

You of ALL people will NEVER change your POV, you stubborn old hate monger.
Why dont you just die already.

I dont know why you bother to respond to me, you dont like me and I dont like you.
Leave it at that.</i>


Anyway, I have some questions for you:

1) Previously, why you worshiped AMD64? And now stating that it's completely useless, possibly incompatible or inferior compared to Intel's solution....

2) How did VIA K8 chipsets become horrible in your eye from an "OK status" within a very short period of time?

3) Why you're forgetting the fact that there is a chipset named "nForce3 250Gb" exists and mobos based on this chipsets are going to be available within few weeks?

4) How did P4Man become a twat from a holy person within 1-2 month?



Many people (including me) mentioned these facts recently. But I think I should repeat them again, because these are true facts, not wild speculations and one eyed opinion of an out-of-reality fanboy.

#1) AMD64 is neither useless, nor a must have feature. It's a bonus. Only time can show the correct usefulness of this technology.

#2) AMD64 and Intel's EMT64 is 100% compatible, though they may not be identical. For example, AXP's 3DNow! Professional is 100% compatible with P3 SSE, though it's not identical and has some extras for backward compatibility with 3D Now! And there should be no doubt about 100% compatibility, since many websites already stated that.

#3) A64 3000+ is NOT GOING TO BE OBSOLETE VERY SOON. Both AMD and Intel will have hard time improving CPU performance in near future, because both are having problems improving clock speed and it's not going to change in near future. Dual core is going to be the way to improve performance, both for AMD and Intel. It's not a thing of near future.

Moreover, "Obsolete" has more than one definition. "Obsolete" from benchmark chart POV and "Obsolete" from real world use POV is totally different. 3 years old T-bird 1.2 GHz is nowhere near top place in today's benchmark charts, but it's still a usable processor. Few months ago, it could run all games smoothly. Now it can run almost all games smoothly, but not all (FarCry for example, and Call of Duty will surely deliver better gameplay experience with a faster processor).

#4) Socket 754 may be obsolete before the time it hit market, but it's still more upgradeable than current competing solutions. Socket 478's limited to P4 3.4 GHz, but Socket 754 will be upgradeable up to 3700+ (at least). Socket 939 and LGA775 is surely going to be more upgradeable, but they're not available now. If somebody needs to build a system now and cares about better upgradeability, then socket 754 is the automatic choice.

#5) nForce3 250Gb based mobos are going to hit market very soon. They will blow away all other mobos in terms of feature. Then socket 754 can't be considered a not future proof platform in terms of feature (PCI-Ex is not going to make AGP and PCI cards vanish within a year, and socket 478 doesn't have PCI-Ex, too)

#6) VIA K8 chipsets aren't the worst thing in the world. This is not 1999 and the situation is very different. VIA K8 chipsets are very usable, though some people may not feel comfortable with them because of their past bad experience. They may not be the overclockers' chipset because it lacks PCI/AGP bus lock, may not be as feature rich as nForce3 250Gb or may be picky about memory latency. But by no means, they're unusable.

#6) AMD pricing is very fair compared to Intel. A64s are much more expensive to make compared P4s because of larger die size, more expensive SOI wafer, usage of smaller wafer. And it's a new tech, unlike P4 and AXP, so they have to make up the R&D cost. AMD is a business organization just like Intel, so we can't expect that they will not care about their R&D cost. Yet their CPUs are priced little lower than similar P4s. Think about P4 Willamette price. How inexpensive they were compared to AMD? Their reason for much higher price was larger die (thus lower yield) and R&D cost. How can any person say "AMD pricing is unfair compared to P4s" if they're not out of their mind?

7) Even Intel knows and admits that how inferior P4 "A" scotty is. This is why they rated it like Northwood "A". It should perform similar to Northwood "A" sometimes and Northwood "B" sometimes. You shouldn't forget that AXP 2400+/2500+ outperforms P4 2.4B by slight margin in almost all apps (except apps like Q3A and Lightwave), but they cost half and AXP 2500+ is also a very good overclocker, nForce2 is by no means inferior platform compared to i875/i865 platforms. P4 2.4A "scotty" is the worst Intel processor at this moment, if you put Celerons aside.

8) If overclockability is a big deciding factor for purchase, then Northwood Celerons are excellent choice, because 2.0 GHz northwood Celeron can easily reach 3 GHz.

9) There is still good Intel buys at this moment, which is Northwood "C" 2.8 to 3.2 GHz. NOT P4 2.4A "SCOTTY"

10) HT is important for P4s, not because of the overhyped "multitasking performance advantage". It makes inefficient P4s more efficient, and P4 was designed perform best with HT. We can see the benefit in almost all 3D rendering apps and many encoding apps. HT is not required for multitasking, nor make real world multitasking better. In lightweight to midweight multitasking, there’s no performance difference between P4 HT and A64. HT performance advantage becomes evident, when you do some thing like "SETI@home + 3DSMax rendering + NAV scanning + Gaming" together. But nobody ever does this kind of multitasking. And it evident performance advantage doesn't mean adequate practical performance, since it's not a real dual CPU. For example, you get 30 fps in FarCry, when running it undisturbed. If you do 3DSMax rendering at the same time, then you may get 15 fps in Far Cry in HT P4 system and 12 fps in A64 system. HT may have clear advantage here, but who cares? In both cases, gaming performance is not good enough. Extremely overhyped "Multitasking advantage" is just marketing.

11) Efficient CPUs (like A64/AXP and P3/P-M) don't need HT for achieving max. possible performance. Though AMD would add this feature just for sake of marketing, but it's impossible to implement it A64 CPUs without major redesigning. A64 will have HT like tech when A64s will be real dual core CPU.

12) HT is the thing which gives P4s edge over A64 in many rendering/encoding apps. HT gone, and P4s lose their stronghold and all specialty compared to A64, also becomes a not that superior contender of AXPs in rendering/encoding apps. This is why P4 2.4A is not a good purchase at all.


About P4Man: I always liked most of his posts, but didn't think or publicly express that he's the greatest THGC poster. I never liked somebody very much and after few days hated him passionately. In fact, this thing is very rare. Your insults towards P4Man remind me "Omid-ish insults". I didn't follow your useless fanboy threads "I see no reason to go Intel now" and "wait! I see a reason to go Intel now"

Kinney, I don't know what happened to you. Maybe AMD CEO double crossed you with your payment and Intel CEO recently has bought you a new sports car. I think you have great future in politics or law business.

I always dislike any kind of fanboys. But it's hard not to hate two sided fanboys. We don't have a ignore button in this forum. I don't think it's a good idea to have such button and use it. Except "the champion idiot of all time" SoDNighthawk, you're the first person who made me think ignore button is not completely unnecessary and usable in some cases. Recently, I didn't have much time for posting here and was posting less than before. But your two sided hypocrisy is so sickening, that it forced me to write this very long post.

Next thing in your tasklist: Doing a all-out nVidia bashing in graphics car fourm , where you're going to recommend R9600SE instead of GeForce4 Ti4200.

<i>P.S.: If you don't know who is "Dark_Archonis", then you should PM Eden or dhlucke, and you will get the info</i>


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April 8, 2004 8:31:22 PM

Wow! Kinney found a way to get a complete thread for himself! I would like to be as good as him! :smile:

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April 8, 2004 9:15:04 PM

spitefire, your insane. how long did it take to complile this post? dont you have anything better to do than try to discredit some one who takes this forum 1/10th as serious as you do.

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April 8, 2004 9:34:44 PM

I was a bit surprised to see Spitfire take the time to start a hate thread too. I'm a bit disappointed in that, but what can I do.

I think yes he(Spitty) does take this forum very seriously, and because of that he usually offers people very good advice. That is good for us all really as a certain amount of level-headed seriousness is very much needed here. I think his A64 opinions just mentioned are very informative and very level-headed, unlike others who argue that A64 is the only solution worth owning and waiting for NF3-250 is a total waste. So, people bashing I didn't like, but who doesn't have a bad day where they get fed up with someone and vent a little. Most of his info is very good advice though and shows a level of fairness many people lack.

Anyway, Bring on more real hardware info and serious talk Spitty; you are very good at it. I haven't been here real long, but this topic seems a bit childish from what I've grown to expect from you.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
April 8, 2004 9:37:21 PM

Kinney is Kinney.

Anyone who takes him with any amount of seriousness should get out more often.

Spitfire, how many idiots does the internet hold? If you start getting upset because some dumbarse at the other end of the world writes something stupid, you're going to waste a lot of strength and time on nothing.




A long long time ago, but I can still remember, how that music used to make me smile... <A HREF="http://www.nexus.hu/zonix/DIGGER.MID" target="_new"><b><font color=blue>Digger rulz</font color=blue></b></A>
April 8, 2004 9:56:46 PM

Initially, I tried some short rational discussion in that other thread with kinney before starting this thread. I didn't think I will post something this long in the end.

BTW jihiggs, it took 1.5 hours to make this post. Today I used my Linux time to make this post. It's a loooong post, but slvr_phoenix many times wrote even longer posts!

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April 8, 2004 10:01:56 PM

I would like to see a wait to gives thumbs UP/DOWN to people that post here. So, newbie would know which "veteran" they can trust. And this would probably kick some FanBoy or not good poster out of these board.

I used to participate to a blog that had 3 options of voting, the choice were :
Bof, he he and Wow!

This was funny, because when we got ranked based on these weird choices, we could vote thread or single post.

--
Would you buy a potato powered chipset?
April 8, 2004 10:06:35 PM

1.5 hours, wow, LOL My posts get very lengthy also, but I don't think I've had any take near that kind of time. :) 


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
April 8, 2004 10:28:33 PM

There's few reasons for taking long time. I wanted to cover the complete content with a single post and make the post as full-proff, to reduce "quote & counter-point" as much as possible. English isn't my native language, I need bit more time express things via English. This is another reason for taking more time.

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April 8, 2004 11:17:39 PM

Question is this for your ego your self esteem. Do you feel it necessary to bring down any that feel your views or are incorrect or are you fearful of the movement dare I say the migration of users?

I personally find this flame bait waste of space post useless and pointless. You don’t like the kid keep it to yourself and the other forum.

I’m surprised no one else said this but we all love to pick on the weak guy don’t we? In times of old this would be considered dishonorable. Times of new share the view yet as well.

Xeon

<font color=orange>Scratch Here To Reveal Prize</font color=orange>
April 8, 2004 11:37:02 PM

I don't really care for threads of this nature. I do find it rather hypcritical of you to say what you just said, seeing you were originaly banned for some kind of racist remark.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
April 8, 2004 11:40:53 PM

Well the length of time is understandable for sure, and you do well in English. I'm still just not sure why this kind of topic was worth all that time to you. I've often written books arguing with Kinney. And he is the only person that ever got me angry at him (once). But I would not at all think to start a thread like this because Of anything he has said to me or others. Again, I like many of your other informative topics, just not impressed with this one.

Although i sure understand the "quote and counterpoint thing." That gets real old if someone disreguards your whole point and just counter's one small quote, sometimes out of context even. I often type books and still feel I leave out many of the things i want to say. :frown:


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
April 9, 2004 12:14:54 AM

Well Spitfire, I find myself agreeing with you once again. If Kinney wants to start some stupid flame thread, fine. Nobody should be allowed to hijack a valid help thread, and turn it into fame.
April 9, 2004 12:28:12 AM

Pardon?

Xeon

<font color=orange>Scratch Here To Reveal Prize</font color=orange>
April 9, 2004 1:00:03 AM

OK, why did they ban you?

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
April 9, 2004 1:15:24 AM

man I feel quite the noob. All this forum history and banning gossip goes right over my head.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
April 9, 2004 1:20:28 AM

and yet you are an old hand and I am merly an addict. It's not the quantity but quality.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
April 9, 2004 1:23:44 AM

LOL, nice cheapshot. Guess I have been wasting some time on the cpu/Graphics forums. :redface:


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
April 9, 2004 1:48:46 AM

Ban me?

Xeon

<font color=orange>Scratch Here To Reveal Prize</font color=orange>
April 9, 2004 1:58:58 AM

Ok spud, or am I talking to the roommate again?

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
April 9, 2004 3:35:50 AM

Spud??? what the bloody hell are you talking about.

Xeon

<font color=orange>Scratch Here To Reveal Prize</font color=orange>
April 9, 2004 3:46:14 AM

Never mind spud.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
April 9, 2004 4:24:35 AM

I am quite contempt with you right now you are claiming I am another person without evidence or concious. Claiming yet I am a racist is equalling insulting, how dare you.

Xeon

<font color=orange>Scratch Here To Reveal Prize</font color=orange>
April 9, 2004 4:33:17 AM

LOL

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
April 9, 2004 4:39:08 AM

*Watches as Tomshardware's Community gets razed to the ground* Anyone have any popcorn?

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Remember what your fighting for, Remember why you even started fighting, and Remember who you are
April 9, 2004 5:17:25 AM

OMG this is awesome!

I am an ICON to you!

I have TWO pages so far dedicated to ME and only ME! RAWK ON!

/me does the Harlem Shake

____________________________
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<font color=purple>I just neutered the cat.
Now he's a liberal.</font color=purple></b>
April 9, 2004 5:43:09 AM

*hands Frozen popcorn*


RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
never tried to go crazy when it comes to o/cing.
THGC's resident Asian and Graphics Forum's resident nVboy :D 
April 9, 2004 6:53:43 AM

*muches down the popcorn while he smokes and relaxes at his computer* All this talk about gaming computers and over clocking makes me really want to OC. Damn it I need to get some better RAM at least I think thats my problem. Some might say that its because I have an AMD and they are unstable overclockers :)  (just messing around don't bash me *hides in a corner*)

-------------------------------------------------
Remember what your fighting for, Remember why you even started fighting, and Remember who you are
April 9, 2004 6:55:48 AM

Isn't it great the anarchy the destruction :)  ah the FLAMES I love this place.

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Remember what your fighting for, Remember why you even started fighting, and Remember who you are
April 9, 2004 11:58:12 AM

You took an hour and a half to tell us that kinney changed from AMD to Intel? That's awesome.

<font color=blue>War</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Eagle</font color=orange>
"I am not a role model." - Charles Barkley
{FTM}
April 9, 2004 2:28:06 PM

Post deleted by Spitfire_x86
April 9, 2004 3:44:00 PM

man


look, Kinney may jump around with his opinions from time to time.. rather enthusiastically i might add



but he certainly does offer a point of view that differs from the standard here, which i find to be good



really i dont mind his posts at all, some of them i enjoy quite a bit especially in the graphics forum, as he at least puts thought into it.... unlike the people you compare him to


thats kinda lame that you would take the time to put someone down so much ... if this was for SoDNighthawk, i woulda been like "ahh ok whatever" but i think this is kinda retarded

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April 9, 2004 3:47:48 PM

omg? who gives a crap? has Xeon ever posted anything in the LEAST offensive to anyone? so what if it even IS Spud, how is it up to you do take it into your hands to decide if peple know? his username was banned, and now your the one to decide if its a lifetime, personal ban?


get off your freaking horse, just bceause your Fredi's little messenger doesnt make you a forum mod or anything

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April 9, 2004 4:19:07 PM

>look, Kinney may jump around with his opinions from time to time.. rather enthusiastically i might add
>but he certainly does offer a point of view that differs from the standard here, which i find to be good

I agree 100% I have injoyed the argueing that me and Kinney have had and I find him to be a very intelegent person. He may focuse being a Nitpicker but hes points have basics if only small.



-------------------------------------------------
Remember what your fighting for, Remember why you even started fighting, and Remember who you are
April 9, 2004 5:08:29 PM

*Sits down and smokes out of his pipe as the bullets pass by his head and as all the buildings burn around him* Ah the love of the battle field. Anyway I was wonder if anyone would take the time to stop the battle really quick and answer a quick answer for me. I have really crappy ram so I cant get over a 133fsb (I have ram thats suppost to support 166 but for some reason ever time I go to 166fsb I become unstable) so instead of rasing my FSB I just bumped my Multi up. I am running a XP 2400+ @ 2266mhz 133fsb.

The question is - Is it worth it to OC my computer like this. I am mainly a gamer and don't really do much other then game and surf with my computer. So should I just wait to OC once I get my PC 3200 ram? Does the boost in proformance mainly come from the boost in FSB or the boost in MHZ?

-------------------------------------------------
Remember what your fighting for, Remember why you even started fighting, and Remember who you are
April 9, 2004 5:16:29 PM

to FF and phial. I agree with these statements too. Kinney has frustrated me a few times for sure, but I like the guy and do enjoy discussions with him. He says what's on his mind, that is for sure. He needs to see real logical reasons or proof links to change his mind or accept another view. Until then, he argues what he feels is right. He doesn't hold back on his punches, nothings wrong with that though.

Seems pretty obvious no one really found this topic to be of any value. Maybe NF3-250 will hit the shelves and we can have better things to talk about. (Not that you aren't worth talking about Kinney) Just adding some more pages to your fame.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
April 9, 2004 5:22:49 PM

What motherboard is it. Possibly isn't the ram but the NB getting hot with the increase fsb. Just a thought. Can you get your hands on(borrow) another stick of ram to try? Also, relax your memory timings if you had them set manually at the 133 bus. Try SPD or even optimal. Have you tried giving the Ram a bit more juice (bump voltage up to 2.6v or even 2.7v. Just a few starter suggestions.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
April 9, 2004 6:20:48 PM

Man, your complaing that he created threads of just plain crap, and look at this one. No, not a waste of time. Well done

As I sit up in my bed looking at all the stars, I begin to wonder... WHERE THE HECK IS MY ROOF!?
April 9, 2004 6:35:02 PM

I love you, pumpkin. *smooch*

:eek:  :redface:

<font color=blue>War</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Eagle</font color=orange>
"I am not a role model." - Charles Barkley
{FTM}
April 9, 2004 8:04:10 PM

Your right there is nothing better to do as of right now so this isn't that bad of a thing really :)  Normaly Flame wars are bad but this time its just entertainment :) 

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Remember what your fighting for, Remember why you even started fighting, and Remember who you are
!