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getting there with my williams lucky ace

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August 14, 2005 11:19:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

i've been slowing sorting problems and learning E/M pinball theory
working on my williams lucky ace. here is the point i'm at. anytime the
ball index relay is engaged, it also energizes and keeps energized the
1000 point relay in the backbox. ive so far traced it to the bonus
unit( stepper). here's what i know. a wire from the ball index relay
stack eventually makes it way to the bonus unit. it goes to a contact
switch on the end of the step up lever. that contact switch is normally
closed, and only opens when the step up soleniod goes to full stroke.

the zero position of the bouns unit is 1000 points, and the 1000 point
lite is correctly lit. as you advance the bonus unit by hitting a
target, the step up soleniod moves the spider to the 2000 lite, 3000
lite ect., like it should. with the bonus unit at rest, the contact
switch in question keeps the 1000 point relay on, so the 1000 point
reel doesnt work, the reel solenoid is fully retracted, buzzing, and
getting hot ( not good) . as the bonus wheen advances, the step up
linkage opens and closes the normally closed switch, and the 1000 point
reel advances as the step up linkage works the contacts, relaxing the
1000 point reel solenoid, and then pulling it in again . . this is
also wrong. i think you are suppossed to collect the bonus points when
the ball drains. it seems to be ass backwards, but it cant be too
wrong, or the bonus lites on the play field would be wacky. ps- the
bonus unit is clean , no sticking. ratches up and down nicely. also,
the spider doesnt affect my problem, same thing happends with the
spider removed. its in the stack at the end of the step up linkage.
i''ve hit a wall here and am at the point of disabling the bonus unit,
so the playfield can ring up points. the way it is now,with the 1000
point relay being energized all the time. a 50 point hit is a 1050
hit. also, the bouns points are the whole pooint of thhiis game,
flipper skill gets those points. please help me, i;'m dying here. thanks

More about : williams lucky ace

August 14, 2005 11:37:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

hi, scratch the above, its doing it with the bonus stepper out of the
picture. i have to dig further. i'm going to look at the stacks on the
score motor. thanks for putting up with me, i hope someday i can help
someone out. ( i can with autos) thanks
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 12:01:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I think you may have overcomplicated this one a bit.

First thing you need to do is check EVERY switch on the game that
advances your bonus or 1000 point reel. Make sure NO 1000 point switch
on the playfield is closed. That game has a lot of rollover switches,
and I would bet it is one of them that is activating the 1000 point
relay. Of course it happens when the ball index is activated, because
this opens the playfield switches.
Related resources
August 15, 2005 2:34:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

hi,
my machine is 100% percent working now, and after having just read
these replies, Ray J. hit it on th head. one of the nylon spacers from
a score motor stack was missing. i made one from a wooden dowel and put
a spot of super glue to hold it. i futzed around with this thing for
probably 25 hrs, but learned so much about pinball operation and
reading schmematics, it was worth it. i come from the auto industry ,
and i think too many years of reading auto schematics made it a bit
tough to figure out the pinball one. it would be nice to see the
entire switch stack of a relay in one place, rather than one switch
here, the next one in the stack a foot away on the schematic. that can
make it tough. i also got jammed up by wire colors. age ( the machine
and mine :)  ) makes certain colors all kind of look the same. anyway,
thanks for all the help, it great to part of this pinball communtity.
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 3:06:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

"hook" wrote:
> anytime the ball index relay is engaged, it also energizes and keeps
energized the
> 1000 point relay in the backbox.

What exactly are you doing to "engage" the Ball Index relay? Hitting a 10
point switch, 100 point switch, or 1000 point/bonus advance switch? Or
something else?

The Ball Index relay does not activate or control the 1000pt relay.

It's actually the opposite- the Ball Index relay is instead activated
(momentarily) by any of the point relays- 10pt, 100pt, 1000pt. The Ball
Index relay latches itself closed (on) anytime it is momentarily activated
by one of the point relays.

So something is activating your 1000 point relay when it's not supposed to
be.

The Ball Index relay is used to detect if any points are scored during the
current ball in play. If any are scored, the Ball Index relay is turned on.
This enables the bonus mechanism to award you the accumulated bonus as soon
as the ball in play is drained (goes into outhole). If no points are scored
during the ball (ball hits no targets, rollovers, etc), then the Ball Index
relay is never activated, and when the ball in play drains, you'll get no
bonus, and game will re-serve the same ball (does not advance Ball Count
unit to next ball).

My guess is that you may have a bonus switch stuck closed somewhere on the
playfield (awards bonus advance & 1000 points). That, or an EOS switch on
the bonus unit stuck closed (one that enables the 1000 pt relay).

Here's what happens & what controls what:
- The playfield switches (bonus adv) activate the bonus unit step up
(advance).
- The bonus unit EOS switch activates the 1000 pt relay.
- The 1000 pt relay activates the Index Relay (which latches closed until
next ball is served).
- The 1000 pt relay also activates the 1000 pt score reel.
- The 1000 pt relay also activates the 1000 pt chime coil in main cabinet.

If I were you, I'd disable the offending switch on the bonus unit, and then
just confirm that everything else on the playfield works okay (including any
/all 1000pt and bonus adv. switches). If so, then you may have a wiring
problem or badly misadjusted switch or misplaced switch activation "peg" on
the bonus unit- something possibly messed up by a previous owner, etc.

Remote chance that you could also have a stuck switch in the Outhole Relay
(trying to make bonus unit count-down/award like end of ball-in-play), or
possibly a missing nylon spacer on one of the switch pairs on one of the
stacks on the score motor unit in main cabinet- always worth checking these
anytime you bring a "new EM" home as if one falls off, it's hard to detect
and can make for some *really* screwy head-scratching problems.

Also, make a quick check of the cable connectors in backbox to make sure you
don't have one plugged into the wrong spot. Not possible to do on most
games, but some of the later model Williams EM games did have a few plugs
that were the same # of pins and can be swapped around unknowingly (Little
Chief is one). Easy quick check.

Ray J.
--
Action Pinball & Amusement, LLC
Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Web: www.actionpinball.com

We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!



"hook" <mhooker@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1124072359.444041.316970@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> i've been slowing sorting problems and learning E/M pinball theory
> working on my williams lucky ace. here is the point i'm at. anytime the
> ball index relay is engaged, it also energizes and keeps energized the
> 1000 point relay in the backbox. ive so far traced it to the bonus
> unit( stepper). here's what i know. a wire from the ball index relay
> stack eventually makes it way to the bonus unit. it goes to a contact
> switch on the end of the step up lever. that contact switch is normally
> closed, and only opens when the step up soleniod goes to full stroke.
>
> the zero position of the bouns unit is 1000 points, and the 1000 point
> lite is correctly lit. as you advance the bonus unit by hitting a
> target, the step up soleniod moves the spider to the 2000 lite, 3000
> lite ect., like it should. with the bonus unit at rest, the contact
> switch in question keeps the 1000 point relay on, so the 1000 point
> reel doesnt work, the reel solenoid is fully retracted, buzzing, and
> getting hot ( not good) . as the bonus wheen advances, the step up
> linkage opens and closes the normally closed switch, and the 1000 point
> reel advances as the step up linkage works the contacts, relaxing the
> 1000 point reel solenoid, and then pulling it in again . . this is
> also wrong. i think you are suppossed to collect the bonus points when
> the ball drains. it seems to be ass backwards, but it cant be too
> wrong, or the bonus lites on the play field would be wacky. ps- the
> bonus unit is clean , no sticking. ratches up and down nicely. also,
> the spider doesnt affect my problem, same thing happends with the
> spider removed. its in the stack at the end of the step up linkage.
> i''ve hit a wall here and am at the point of disabling the bonus unit,
> so the playfield can ring up points. the way it is now,with the 1000
> point relay being energized all the time. a 50 point hit is a 1050
> hit. also, the bouns points are the whole pooint of thhiis game,
> flipper skill gets those points. please help me, i;'m dying here. thanks
>
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 4:04:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

"hook" wrote:
> my machine is 100% percent working now, and after having just read
> these replies, Ray J. hit it on th head. one of the nylon spacers from
> a score motor stack was missing. i made one from a wooden dowel and put
> a spot of super glue to hold it.

I have 3 of those on my 1966 Wms "A-Go-Go" (literally the same- wood dowel
with super glue!)

Still in place after putting them there 23 years ago.

Glad you got it working!

Ray J.
--
Action Pinball & Amusement, LLC
Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Web: www.actionpinball.com

We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!
August 15, 2005 5:26:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

ray, i see you help a lot of guys out. i know that takes a lot of time,
i do the same think in an auto tech forum. i've just played about 15
games on it, its a fun game . i posted a question about the playfield,
if you see it, let me know what you think. i've also got to repair a
weak flipper. the coil isnt original, i wonder if its incorrect. how
doesnt one actually test a week flipper? voltage drop? ohms? the high
flipper on the same side is also a bit lame. on the left side, its two
lower flippers. one left side is missing the coil. would not having two
flippers on one side make the remaining stronger? maybe the right side
ones are ok? also, a weak pop bumper. not binding or anything like
that. the other two are great

thanks- ps- ever need a auto question answered, drop me a line
August 15, 2005 6:08:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

thanks bro!!
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 6:55:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

"hook" wrote:
> ray, i see you help a lot of guys out. i know that takes a lot of time,
> i do the same think in an auto tech forum. i've just played about 15
> games on it, its a fun game . i posted a question about the playfield,
> if you see it, let me know what you think. i've also got to repair a
> weak flipper. the coil isnt original, i wonder if its incorrect. how
> doesnt one actually test a week flipper? voltage drop? ohms? the high
> flipper on the same side is also a bit lame. on the left side, its two
> lower flippers. one left side is missing the coil.

Most common cause of weak flippers is worn out mechanical parts and
switches. You may have to replace some of the mechanical parts (plunger,
link, crank, spring, etc.) if you can find good used parts from another
similar game- not available new anymore.

The EOS switches on the flipper mechs and the flipper button switches on the
inside cabinet walls are common "bottlenecks" for current flow- if these are
worn/pitted, then they need to be replaced with good condition new switches
to allow sufficient current through to let the coil work as good as it can.

You may very well have the wrong coil installed, which can affect strength-
compare numbers to other coils to see- all should be the same part # in this
game.

> would not having two flippers on one side make the remaining stronger?

No- they're wired in parallel so one does not draw on the other.

> also, a weak pop bumper. not binding or anything like that.

Most common cause is dirty contact points under the playfield. I clean
these frequently on my games (or have to) to keep performance up.

Good luck!

Ray J.
--
Action Pinball & Amusement, LLC
Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Web: www.actionpinball.com

We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!
!