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Computer Is Running Very Slow Resources At 99%

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September 17, 2005 2:55:01 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Hi I am having a problem on my xp pro machine my computer is very laggy and
when I go into task mamagment with crtl-alt-delete it should cpu resource
usage 99% it's not suppose to be this can anyone help me thanks.
September 17, 2005 3:01:02 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

I have another problem how do I get this in the first place. What can I do to
protect my self.

"Matthew Senecal" wrote:

> Hi it seems that you might have a virus and/or spyware on your computer. I
> would like for you to going in windows and right click on my computer on the
> desktop and go to properties and go to the system restore tab and check the
> box to turn off the system restore and click apply and ok. Then get a
> anti-virus program and do a full scan on your computer if you don't have a
> anti-virs program you can download avg's for free at http://www.grisoft.com
> and anti-spyware program at http://www.lavasoftusa.com to download Ad-Aware
> SE. After that go and download hijackthis for free on the internet and then
> run a scan and save the log and paste the log at this site
>
> http://www.hijackthis.de and it will tell you want to check and to remove
> and then restart the computer and see how it goes there is a virus and/or
> spyware on you computer that is corrupting your system by locking up when
> going through folders and opening them even though you might fix the virus
> and/or spyware with system restore on it's still saved in there that's why I
> had you turn it off. and that should fix it.
>
> --
> Reply back and let me know how it goes. Don''t forget to select yes if this
> was helpful on my post. I always like helping out people with there problems.
> Thanks
>
> Matthew Senecal
>
>
> "Stef" wrote:
>
> > Hi I am having a problem on my xp pro machine my computer is very laggy and
> > when I go into task mamagment with crtl-alt-delete it should cpu resource
> > usage 99% it's not suppose to be this can anyone help me thanks.
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 3:04:03 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Hi jsut always run scans and updates and also keep that program for
anti-virus installed it does a automatic scan and removal every night at 2am
or you cange change the time but it's great and will work out for you thanks.
--
Reply back and let me know how it goes. Don''t forget to select yes if this
was helpful on my post. I always like helping out people with there problems.
Thanks

Matthew Senecal


"Stef" wrote:

> I have another problem how do I get this in the first place. What can I do to
> protect my self.
>
> "Matthew Senecal" wrote:
>
> > Hi it seems that you might have a virus and/or spyware on your computer. I
> > would like for you to going in windows and right click on my computer on the
> > desktop and go to properties and go to the system restore tab and check the
> > box to turn off the system restore and click apply and ok. Then get a
> > anti-virus program and do a full scan on your computer if you don't have a
> > anti-virs program you can download avg's for free at http://www.grisoft.com
> > and anti-spyware program at http://www.lavasoftusa.com to download Ad-Aware
> > SE. After that go and download hijackthis for free on the internet and then
> > run a scan and save the log and paste the log at this site
> >
> > http://www.hijackthis.de and it will tell you want to check and to remove
> > and then restart the computer and see how it goes there is a virus and/or
> > spyware on you computer that is corrupting your system by locking up when
> > going through folders and opening them even though you might fix the virus
> > and/or spyware with system restore on it's still saved in there that's why I
> > had you turn it off. and that should fix it.
> >
> > --
> > Reply back and let me know how it goes. Don''t forget to select yes if this
> > was helpful on my post. I always like helping out people with there problems.
> > Thanks
> >
> > Matthew Senecal
> >
> >
> > "Stef" wrote:
> >
> > > Hi I am having a problem on my xp pro machine my computer is very laggy and
> > > when I go into task mamagment with crtl-alt-delete it should cpu resource
> > > usage 99% it's not suppose to be this can anyone help me thanks.
Related resources
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 10:05:36 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Stef,

Follow these steps.

click to download Ad-aware
http://www.download.com/3000-2144-10045910.html?part=69...

1) install Ad-aware



click to run a virus scan
http://security.symantec.com/ssc/home.asp?j=1&langid=us...

2) select 'Scan for Viruses' (accept the ActiveX app that will need to
install)



Run both scans daily or weekly (no longer)



There are many free apps that do both of these functions. If you don't like
these two, choose two others. Also, use multiple spyware removal apps to
catch all spyware (others similar to Ad-aware, not the on-line virus scan. I
suggest investing in an anti-virus tool such as Norton's Anti-Virus)

Drew

"Stef" <Stef@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5127A07E-CAAA-4F66-9547-6470EE8ECC3E@microsoft.com...
> Hi I am having a problem on my xp pro machine my computer is very laggy
> and
> when I go into task mamagment with crtl-alt-delete it should cpu resource
> usage 99% it's not suppose to be this can anyone help me thanks.
September 17, 2005 11:34:37 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Stef wrote:
> Hi I am having a problem on my xp pro machine my computer is very laggy and
> when I go into task mamagment with crtl-alt-delete it should cpu resource
> usage 99% it's not suppose to be this can anyone help me thanks.

In Task Manager, click on the Processes tab then on the CPU column heading.

Which processes are consuming the most CPU?
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 3:54:22 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <CC672FE8-D815-4CAB-BAAA-1CF3EE3520B1@microsoft.com>,
Stef@discussions.microsoft.com says...
>
> I have another problem how do I get this in the first place. What can I do to
> protect my self.

First, you need to understand what happened, and it's very good that you
ask how it happened - we need to know what happened, and knowing what
malware you actually got would tell us a lot about how it happened.

In most cases there are just a few paths:

1) Direct connect to your computer from the Inetnet or another infected
machine in your network.

2) You browsed to a malicious site and something ran or you click on
something to run it - you may not have know about it at the time.

3) You were using another program and clicked on a malicious link or on
an attachment in an email which ran something....

If you have cable/dsl you need at least a NAT Router installed between
your internet connection device and your computer

If #2 - then you need a different browser, use FireFox for any site that
you can, some banking sites need IE, but most everything works with
FireFox.

If #3 - then you need to use a different product, update that product,
or you need AV software that scans email and removes things before you
get them. Many cheap AV software doesn't scan email as it comes in to
your PC, get one that does. You also need one that stays resident, gets
frequent updates (nightly), and to learn about using non-Microsoft email
and browser clients.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
September 17, 2005 5:57:34 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote
>
Many cheap AV software doesn't scan email as it comes in to
> your PC, get one that does.

Bad advice for anyone that uses Outlook Express. Email scanning offers NO
additional protection and can and will corrupt Outlook Express. It would
seem to me that you would know that, Leythos.

Alias
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 3:44:04 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <eFQb#73uFHA.596@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
maskedandanonymous.org says...
>
> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote
> >
> Many cheap AV software doesn't scan email as it comes in to
> > your PC, get one that does.
>
> Bad advice for anyone that uses Outlook Express. Email scanning offers NO
> additional protection and can and will corrupt Outlook Express. It would
> seem to me that you would know that, Leythos.

It seems to work for all of the people we know using OE with NAV and
Symantec and AVG products - not one corruption on any of them.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
September 18, 2005 6:14:52 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d967454fd941c9b98a0ac@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> In article <eFQb#73uFHA.596@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> maskedandanonymous.org says...
>>
>> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote
>> >
>> Many cheap AV software doesn't scan email as it comes in to
>> > your PC, get one that does.
>>
>> Bad advice for anyone that uses Outlook Express. Email scanning offers NO
>> additional protection and can and will corrupt Outlook Express. It would
>> seem to me that you would know that, Leythos.
>
> It seems to work for all of the people we know using OE with NAV and
> Symantec and AVG products - not one corruption on any of them.

State that on an OE newsgroup and see what happens.

Alias
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:14:53 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <eY8d9X#uFHA.1516@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
maskedandanonymous.org says...
>
> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d967454fd941c9b98a0ac@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> > In article <eFQb#73uFHA.596@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> > maskedandanonymous.org says...
> >>
> >> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote
> >> >
> >> Many cheap AV software doesn't scan email as it comes in to
> >> > your PC, get one that does.
> >>
> >> Bad advice for anyone that uses Outlook Express. Email scanning offers NO
> >> additional protection and can and will corrupt Outlook Express. It would
> >> seem to me that you would know that, Leythos.
> >
> > It seems to work for all of the people we know using OE with NAV and
> > Symantec and AVG products - not one corruption on any of them.
>
> State that on an OE newsgroup and see what happens.

I can state it anywhere I want, as I have actual experience that none of
the users we know have any issues with it, none at all. While most of
our clients, their friends, and family we know, do not experience any
issues, it could be due to the fact that their systems are not already
compromised.

I have more than 80 residents between two sororities that are using OE
with Norton AV and AVG (and one with Panda) that are not having any
issues with it, not last year and not this year.

If you know people that are having problems, maybe they have other
stability issues with their system.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:14:54 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d967c56612698c298a0ae@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> In article <eY8d9X#uFHA.1516@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> maskedandanonymous.org says...
>>
>> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1d967454fd941c9b98a0ac@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
>> > In article <eFQb#73uFHA.596@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
>> > maskedandanonymous.org says...
>> >>
>> >> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote
>> >> >
>> >> Many cheap AV software doesn't scan email as it comes in to
>> >> > your PC, get one that does.
>> >>
>> >> Bad advice for anyone that uses Outlook Express. Email scanning offers
>> >> NO
>> >> additional protection and can and will corrupt Outlook Express. It
>> >> would
>> >> seem to me that you would know that, Leythos.
>> >
>> > It seems to work for all of the people we know using OE with NAV and
>> > Symantec and AVG products - not one corruption on any of them.
>>
>> State that on an OE newsgroup and see what happens.
>
> I can state it anywhere I want, as I have actual experience that none of
> the users we know have any issues with it, none at all. While most of
> our clients, their friends, and family we know, do not experience any
> issues, it could be due to the fact that their systems are not already
> compromised.
>
> I have more than 80 residents between two sororities that are using OE
> with Norton AV and AVG (and one with Panda) that are not having any
> issues with it, not last year and not this year.
>
> If you know people that are having problems, maybe they have other
> stability issues with their system.
>
> --
>
> spam999free@rrohio.com
> remove 999 in order to email me

Per Norton....

Norton AntiVirus email scanning is not compatible with Internet service
providers using Secured Socket Layer protocol
Situation:
You have an Internet service provider (ISP) that uses the Secured Socket
Layer (SSL) protocol to download email to its incoming POP3 server. When you
configure Norton AntiVirus email scanning to scan email attachments, the
program does not appear to scan email attachments. You may also see the
error message "An encrypted email connection has been detected. Please see
help for more information on how to transmit encrypted email."

Solution:
Norton AntiVirus email scanning does not work with an ISP that is using the
SSL protocol. Also, Norton AntiVirus email scanning will only scan email
that arrives on default ports 110 or 25.

If your ISP uses the SSL protocol, then you must disable email scanning in
order to send and receive email. Read the document Turning on or turning off
email scanning in Norton AntiVirus for information on how to disable email
scanning.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:14:54 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

I can backup Leythos on this. I have been using OE to get my e-mail since I
was using '98SE, I have always used SystemSuite (3.0 to now Pro 6). I have
always used the e-mail scan. I have never had a corrupted file on OE, and
have stopped 100's of virus from being downloaded from my ISP mail accounts
as well as hotmail when they were "scanned by McAjunk for your protection".
Maybe the crouption comes from McA*** or No**on's software. But not all
antivirus software is like those two pieces (thank G**).

"old" devildog
-- Semper Fi --
Ham and eggs. A day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.
The original point and click interface was a Smith and Wesson.
-------------------------------


"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d967c56612698c298a0ae@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
| In article <eY8d9X#uFHA.1516@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
| maskedandanonymous.org says...
| >
| > "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
| > news:MPG.1d967454fd941c9b98a0ac@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
| > > In article <eFQb#73uFHA.596@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
| > > maskedandanonymous.org says...
| > >>
| > >> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote
| > >> >
| > >> Many cheap AV software doesn't scan email as it comes in to
| > >> > your PC, get one that does.
| > >>
| > >> Bad advice for anyone that uses Outlook Express. Email scanning
offers NO
| > >> additional protection and can and will corrupt Outlook Express. It
would
| > >> seem to me that you would know that, Leythos.
| > >
| > > It seems to work for all of the people we know using OE with NAV and
| > > Symantec and AVG products - not one corruption on any of them.
| >
| > State that on an OE newsgroup and see what happens.
|
| I can state it anywhere I want, as I have actual experience that none of
| the users we know have any issues with it, none at all. While most of
| our clients, their friends, and family we know, do not experience any
| issues, it could be due to the fact that their systems are not already
| compromised.
|
| I have more than 80 residents between two sororities that are using OE
| with Norton AV and AVG (and one with Panda) that are not having any
| issues with it, not last year and not this year.
|
| If you know people that are having problems, maybe they have other
| stability issues with their system.
|
| --
|
| spam999free@rrohio.com
| remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:14:55 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <OBv4Fd#uFHA.2212@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl>, fake@nowhere.org
says...
>
> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d967c56612698c298a0ae@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> > In article <eY8d9X#uFHA.1516@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> > maskedandanonymous.org says...
> >>
> >> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
> >> news:MPG.1d967454fd941c9b98a0ac@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> >> > In article <eFQb#73uFHA.596@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> >> > maskedandanonymous.org says...
> >> >>
> >> >> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote
> >> >> >
> >> >> Many cheap AV software doesn't scan email as it comes in to
> >> >> > your PC, get one that does.
> >> >>
> >> >> Bad advice for anyone that uses Outlook Express. Email scanning offers
> >> >> NO
> >> >> additional protection and can and will corrupt Outlook Express. It
> >> >> would
> >> >> seem to me that you would know that, Leythos.
> >> >
> >> > It seems to work for all of the people we know using OE with NAV and
> >> > Symantec and AVG products - not one corruption on any of them.
> >>
> >> State that on an OE newsgroup and see what happens.
> >
> > I can state it anywhere I want, as I have actual experience that none of
> > the users we know have any issues with it, none at all. While most of
> > our clients, their friends, and family we know, do not experience any
> > issues, it could be due to the fact that their systems are not already
> > compromised.
> >
> > I have more than 80 residents between two sororities that are using OE
> > with Norton AV and AVG (and one with Panda) that are not having any
> > issues with it, not last year and not this year.
> >
> > If you know people that are having problems, maybe they have other
> > stability issues with their system.
> >
> > --
> >
> > spam999free@rrohio.com
> > remove 999 in order to email me
>
> Per Norton....
>
> Norton AntiVirus email scanning is not compatible with Internet service
> providers using Secured Socket Layer protocol
> Situation:
> You have an Internet service provider (ISP) that uses the Secured Socket
> Layer (SSL) protocol to download email to its incoming POP3 server. When you
> configure Norton AntiVirus email scanning to scan email attachments, the
> program does not appear to scan email attachments. You may also see the
> error message "An encrypted email connection has been detected. Please see
> help for more information on how to transmit encrypted email."
>
> Solution:
> Norton AntiVirus email scanning does not work with an ISP that is using the
> SSL protocol. Also, Norton AntiVirus email scanning will only scan email
> that arrives on default ports 110 or 25.
>
> If your ISP uses the SSL protocol, then you must disable email scanning in
> order to send and receive email. Read the document Turning on or turning off
> email scanning in Norton AntiVirus for information on how to disable email
> scanning.

Thanks for the info - I have never run into anyone using a SSL
connection to pull POP email.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
September 18, 2005 6:14:56 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Leythos wrote:
> Thanks for the info - I have never run into anyone using a SSL
> connection to pull POP email.

Get a real ISP, then!

Mine's been using SSL for 2 yrs+.
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:14:57 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <RI2Xe.43220$1g2.17599@fe05.lga>, Z@no.spam says...
> Leythos wrote:
> > Thanks for the info - I have never run into anyone using a SSL
> > connection to pull POP email.
>
> Get a real ISP, then!
>
> Mine's been using SSL for 2 yrs+.

I don't need a mail server from an ISP, I have my own email server. I've
not seen many of the big ones providing SSL instructions on their
support sites.

Maybe you would want to post who your provider is so that we could look
at how they have it setup?

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
September 18, 2005 4:26:18 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d967c56612698c298a0ae@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> In article <eY8d9X#uFHA.1516@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> maskedandanonymous.org says...
>>
>> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1d967454fd941c9b98a0ac@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
>> > In article <eFQb#73uFHA.596@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
>> > maskedandanonymous.org says...
>> >>
>> >> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote
>> >> >
>> >> Many cheap AV software doesn't scan email as it comes in to
>> >> > your PC, get one that does.
>> >>
>> >> Bad advice for anyone that uses Outlook Express. Email scanning offers
>> >> NO
>> >> additional protection and can and will corrupt Outlook Express. It
>> >> would
>> >> seem to me that you would know that, Leythos.
>> >
>> > It seems to work for all of the people we know using OE with NAV and
>> > Symantec and AVG products - not one corruption on any of them.
>>
>> State that on an OE newsgroup and see what happens.
>
> I can state it anywhere I want, as I have actual experience that none of
> the users we know have any issues with it, none at all. While most of
> our clients, their friends, and family we know, do not experience any
> issues, it could be due to the fact that their systems are not already
> compromised.

You don't have the balls to state this on
microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
>
> I have more than 80 residents between two sororities that are using OE
> with Norton AV and AVG (and one with Panda) that are not having any
> issues with it, not last year and not this year.
>
> If you know people that are having problems, maybe they have other
> stability issues with their system.

From: http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3

Antivirus software invades the Outlook Express program to try and intercept
(incoming and, in some cases, outgoing) messages that might contain virus.
The problem with this approach is that the antivirus software can trigger
the destruction of an entire message folder or the entire message store,
when it attempts to remove a message containing a potential virus.

Because of the fragility of the OE message store structure and its
propensity for destruction, this applies to just about any antivirus program
that touches the OE message store. So its best to follow these instructions
regardless of what antivirus program you use.

To prevent the possibility of such destruction occuring, turn off email
scanning in your antivirus software. You will still be protected against
infection. If you attempt to open a message attachment containing a
potential virus, then your antivirus software will recognize that your are
attempting to infect your system, and will block you from doing so.

The best practice on the user's part is to save an attachment to disk and
then scan it with the antivirus software prior to opening it. Messages
opened themselves (if you have the latest security updates from Windows
Update) will not infect your system -- only attachments. You do not need
additional email scanning on top of your system being continuosly scanned by
antivirus software, so turn off email scanning to prevent destruction of
your message store.

From a newsgroup post by Frank Saunders, MS-MVP:
From
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/df0a595864...

Disabling email protection does not leave you vulnerable to viruses and
malicious software in email. It is a separate layer of protection in
addition to Auto-Protect. Auto-Protect scans any incoming files, including
email, as they are saved to your hard drive. As long as you keep your virus
definitions up to date with LiveUpdate, and keep Auto-Protect enabled and
set to scan files as they are created or downloaded, your system is fully
protected.

See also the section on "Is it safe to disable email scanning" here:
http://service1.symantec.com/support/sharedtech.nsf/doc...

Cody
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 4:28:07 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <OfsHotDvFHA.3720@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
maskedandanonymous.org says...
> The best practice on the user's part is to save an attachment to disk and
> then scan it with the antivirus software prior to opening it. Messages
> opened themselves (if you have the latest security updates from Windows
> Update) will not infect your system -- only attachments. You do not need
> additional email scanning on top of your system being continuosly scanned by
> antivirus software, so turn off email scanning to prevent destruction of
> your message store.

You misunderstand how it works - the email is scanned in the POP session
between the computer and the ISP, it's not scanned in the Outlook
message file on the workstation. No-one scans the message file that
outlook uses, same with the exchange store files, you scan the SESSION
(port traffic) between your application pulling on POP and the ISP
server - the virus scanner sits between the two and has nothing to do
with the Outlook Message File on your computer.

You should really understand before you start ranting.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
September 18, 2005 6:46:55 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d9727652813473f98a0b8@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> In article <OfsHotDvFHA.3720@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> maskedandanonymous.org says...
>> The best practice on the user's part is to save an attachment to disk and
>> then scan it with the antivirus software prior to opening it. Messages
>> opened themselves (if you have the latest security updates from Windows
>> Update) will not infect your system -- only attachments. You do not need
>> additional email scanning on top of your system being continuosly scanned
>> by
>> antivirus software, so turn off email scanning to prevent destruction of
>> your message store.
>
> You misunderstand how it works - the email is scanned in the POP session
> between the computer and the ISP, it's not scanned in the Outlook
> message file on the workstation. No-one scans the message file that
> outlook uses, same with the exchange store files, you scan the SESSION
> (port traffic) between your application pulling on POP and the ISP
> server - the virus scanner sits between the two and has nothing to do
> with the Outlook Message File on your computer.
>
> You should really understand before you start ranting.

I am not an expert. You don't have the balls to state this on
microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress, do you? That's
where the experts are and that's where it is on topic and where the experts
can explain why scanning for viruses in OE is not a good idea. Can you do
it? I crossposted this message there for your convenience.

Alias
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:46:56 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

In article <#RvQN8EvFHA.3256@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
maskedandanonymous.org says...
>
> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d9727652813473f98a0b8@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> > In article <OfsHotDvFHA.3720@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> > maskedandanonymous.org says...
> >> The best practice on the user's part is to save an attachment to disk and
> >> then scan it with the antivirus software prior to opening it. Messages
> >> opened themselves (if you have the latest security updates from Windows
> >> Update) will not infect your system -- only attachments. You do not need
> >> additional email scanning on top of your system being continuosly scanned
> >> by
> >> antivirus software, so turn off email scanning to prevent destruction of
> >> your message store.
> >
> > You misunderstand how it works - the email is scanned in the POP session
> > between the computer and the ISP, it's not scanned in the Outlook
> > message file on the workstation. No-one scans the message file that
> > outlook uses, same with the exchange store files, you scan the SESSION
> > (port traffic) between your application pulling on POP and the ISP
> > server - the virus scanner sits between the two and has nothing to do
> > with the Outlook Message File on your computer.
> >
> > You should really understand before you start ranting.
>
> I am not an expert. You don't have the balls to state this on
> microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress, do you? That's
> where the experts are and that's where it is on topic and where the experts
> can explain why scanning for viruses in OE is not a good idea. Can you do
> it? I crossposted this message there for your convenience.

I've never been in that group, don't care if you cross-post it, and
don't expect any issues with my direct statement from anyone that has a
clue.

Now, just to make sure, we're talking about AV scanners that scan the
POP and SMTP sessions inbound and outbound for malware/malicious content
- just because you don't know the difference between scanning a session
and scanning a file it's not going to change my statement.

AV scanners that scan the mail sessions are not going to corrupt the
Outlook Express file on your drive.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:46:56 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

In article <#RvQN8EvFHA.3256@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
maskedandanonymous.org says...
> I am not an expert. You don't have the balls to state this on
> microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress, do you?

Why are you so confrontational? If you don't have a clue, maybe you
should research a little before you jump on those that do have a clue.

You do understand that scanning a session, port traffic, for content has
nothing to do with the file used by Outlook Express? Do you or don't you
understand that?

If the application acts as a proxy to filter content according to the
standards for POP/SMTP, the only thing that can trash the outlook FILE
is outlook itself.

If you have real-time AV scanning, and you allow it to scan the actual
FILE that outlook stores it's information in then you can have issues,
but nothing I stated indicated that you should scan the FILE that
outlook uses.

In case you don't understand other things - you also make exceptions for
the Exchange Store and other items for exchange, for SQL database files,
for some AV files where they download/expand Zip files, etc....

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:46:57 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d9730af4f26f47b98a0ba@news-server.columbus.rr.com
> In article <#RvQN8EvFHA.3256@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> maskedandanonymous.org says...
>>
>> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1d9727652813473f98a0b8@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
>>> In article <OfsHotDvFHA.3720@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
>>> maskedandanonymous.org says...
>>>> The best practice on the user's part is to save an attachment to
>>>> disk and then scan it with the antivirus software prior to opening
>>>> it. Messages opened themselves (if you have the latest security
>>>> updates from Windows Update) will not infect your system -- only
>>>> attachments. You do not need additional email scanning on top of
>>>> your system being continuosly scanned by
>>>> antivirus software, so turn off email scanning to prevent
>>>> destruction of your message store.
>>>
>>> You misunderstand how it works - the email is scanned in the POP
>>> session between the computer and the ISP, it's not scanned in the
>>> Outlook message file on the workstation. No-one scans the message
>>> file that outlook uses, same with the exchange store files, you
>>> scan the SESSION (port traffic) between your application pulling on
>>> POP and the ISP server - the virus scanner sits between the two and
>>> has nothing to do with the Outlook Message File on your computer.
>>>
>>> You should really understand before you start ranting.
>>
>> I am not an expert. You don't have the balls to state this on
>> microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress, do you?
>> That's where the experts are and that's where it is on topic and
>> where the experts can explain why scanning for viruses in OE is not
>> a good idea. Can you do it? I crossposted this message there for
>> your convenience.
>
> I've never been in that group, don't care if you cross-post it, and
> don't expect any issues with my direct statement from anyone that has
> a clue.
>
> Now, just to make sure, we're talking about AV scanners that scan the
> POP and SMTP sessions inbound and outbound for malware/malicious
> content - just because you don't know the difference between scanning
> a session and scanning a file it's not going to change my statement.
>
> AV scanners that scan the mail sessions are not going to corrupt the
> Outlook Express file on your drive.

Theoretically you are correct. However, both Norton and McAfee (especially
McAfee) have been known to wipe entire folders in OE. Don't know how they
manage that, but they do.

Any anti-virus, in order to scan the email, places a proxy between the mail
program and leaving the computer. So does an anti-spam program. The
incoming mail goes to that proxy and gets scanned before it is delivered to
the mail program In either case this delay is often interpreted by the mail
program as a lost connection and it stops the receive function with an error
message.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE
Please respond in Newsgroup only. Do not send email
http://www.fjsmjs.com
Protect your PC
http://www.microsoft.com./athome/security/protect/defau...
http://defendingyourmachine.blogspot.com/
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 8:40:46 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

Then explain why Norton will quarantine the whole inbox in OE, Netscape
mail, Eudora, and it does this on Mac's also and Mac's are not effected by
most windows viruses. Norton is the only AV that I have seen that does this.
Norton reps could not fix this on any of our 8000 systems Mac included. We
tracked it down to certain viruses like the blaster worm and its variants.
The only work around, not fix, is to manually delete the virus from the
server first and configure Norton to not scan dbx files in its weekly scans
or auto protect. That leaves emails completely unprotected.

--


The best live web video on the internet http://www.seedsv.com/webdemo.htm
NEW Embedded system W/Linux. We now sell DVR cards.
See it all at http://www.seedsv.com/products.htm
Sharpvision simply the best http://www.seedsv.com



"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d9730af4f26f47b98a0ba@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> In article <#RvQN8EvFHA.3256@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> maskedandanonymous.org says...
>>
>> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1d9727652813473f98a0b8@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
>> > In article <OfsHotDvFHA.3720@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
>> > maskedandanonymous.org says...
>> >> The best practice on the user's part is to save an attachment to disk
>> >> and
>> >> then scan it with the antivirus software prior to opening it. Messages
>> >> opened themselves (if you have the latest security updates from
>> >> Windows
>> >> Update) will not infect your system -- only attachments. You do not
>> >> need
>> >> additional email scanning on top of your system being continuosly
>> >> scanned
>> >> by
>> >> antivirus software, so turn off email scanning to prevent destruction
>> >> of
>> >> your message store.
>> >
>> > You misunderstand how it works - the email is scanned in the POP
>> > session
>> > between the computer and the ISP, it's not scanned in the Outlook
>> > message file on the workstation. No-one scans the message file that
>> > outlook uses, same with the exchange store files, you scan the SESSION
>> > (port traffic) between your application pulling on POP and the ISP
>> > server - the virus scanner sits between the two and has nothing to do
>> > with the Outlook Message File on your computer.
>> >
>> > You should really understand before you start ranting.
>>
>> I am not an expert. You don't have the balls to state this on
>> microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress, do you? That's
>> where the experts are and that's where it is on topic and where the
>> experts
>> can explain why scanning for viruses in OE is not a good idea. Can you do
>> it? I crossposted this message there for your convenience.
>
> I've never been in that group, don't care if you cross-post it, and
> don't expect any issues with my direct statement from anyone that has a
> clue.
>
> Now, just to make sure, we're talking about AV scanners that scan the
> POP and SMTP sessions inbound and outbound for malware/malicious content
> - just because you don't know the difference between scanning a session
> and scanning a file it's not going to change my statement.
>
> AV scanners that scan the mail sessions are not going to corrupt the
> Outlook Express file on your drive.
>
> --
>
> spam999free@rrohio.com
> remove 999 in order to email me
September 18, 2005 8:40:47 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

pcbutts1 wrote:
> Then explain why Norton will quarantine the whole inbox in OE, Netscape
> mail, Eudora, and it does this on Mac's also and Mac's are not effected by
> most windows viruses. Norton is the only AV that I have seen that does this.

Perhaps the user had the real-time component disabled, or the e-mail
component disabled or improperly configured or maybe the malware was
unknown when it was first d/l-ed from the POP server into the Inbox but
found later, after definitions had been updated.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 2:03:32 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

In article <iMgXe.64$ri6.57@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, pcbutts1
@seedsv.com says...
> Then explain why Norton will quarantine the whole inbox in OE, Netscape
> mail, Eudora, and it does this on Mac's also and Mac's are not effected by
> most windows viruses. Norton is the only AV that I have seen that does this.
> Norton reps could not fix this on any of our 8000 systems Mac included. We
> tracked it down to certain viruses like the blaster worm and its variants.
> The only work around, not fix, is to manually delete the virus from the
> server first and configure Norton to not scan dbx files in its weekly scans
> or auto protect. That leaves emails completely unprotected.

You didn't use the software properly if you had that problem. I have
been using Norton and Symantec since they were out on the market, have
more than 1000+ nodes using it, and the only time we have any issues is
when the exclusions are not properly setup, when some idiot installs a
service that uses files and doesn't properly check the AV settings or
specifics vs his software.

As for outlook, why would you scan the outlook file? Why would not just
scan the SMTP and POP sessions (or IMAP) for bad things so that they are
removed without impact to the files.

The only time I've seen Norton screw up a INBOX is when it was scanning
the files themselves instead of the sessions (smtp/pop) - if you don't
set it up properly then you can't really complain.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 2:03:33 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d97ae45a38ea8f98a0c2@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> In article <iMgXe.64$ri6.57@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, pcbutts1
> @seedsv.com says...
>> Then explain why Norton will quarantine the whole inbox in OE, Netscape
>> mail, Eudora, and it does this on Mac's also and Mac's are not effected
>> by
>> most windows viruses. Norton is the only AV that I have seen that does
>> this.
>> Norton reps could not fix this on any of our 8000 systems Mac included.
>> We
>> tracked it down to certain viruses like the blaster worm and its
>> variants.
>> The only work around, not fix, is to manually delete the virus from the
>> server first and configure Norton to not scan dbx files in its weekly
>> scans
>> or auto protect. That leaves emails completely unprotected.
>
> You didn't use the software properly if you had that problem. I have
> been using Norton and Symantec since they were out on the market, have
> more than 1000+ nodes using it, and the only time we have any issues is
> when the exclusions are not properly setup, when some idiot installs a
> service that uses files and doesn't properly check the AV settings or
> specifics vs his software.
>
> As for outlook, why would you scan the outlook file? Why would not just
> scan the SMTP and POP sessions (or IMAP) for bad things so that they are
> removed without impact to the files.
>
> The only time I've seen Norton screw up a INBOX is when it was scanning
> the files themselves instead of the sessions (smtp/pop) - if you don't
> set it up properly then you can't really complain.
>
> --

Add me to the confused list. I am using Norton AV 2002 and have *.dbx in my
exclusions and also have both incoming and outgoing emails check for
scanning. I this a reaonably correct configuration?

I can find nowhere in the NAV Options setup to scan the SMTP and POP
sessions. What am I missing.

Thank you for any thoughts you might have for this mixed up user.

>
> spam999free@rrohio.com
> remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 2:03:34 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

"Jack Gillis" <XXXXXXXX@widomaker.com> wrote in message
news:o DMIlEKvFHA.3740@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl
> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d97ae45a38ea8f98a0c2@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
>> In article <iMgXe.64$ri6.57@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, pcbutts1
>> @seedsv.com says...
>>> Then explain why Norton will quarantine the whole inbox in OE,
>>> Netscape mail, Eudora, and it does this on Mac's also and Mac's are
>>> not effected by
>>> most windows viruses. Norton is the only AV that I have seen that
>>> does this.
>>> Norton reps could not fix this on any of our 8000 systems Mac
>>> included. We
>>> tracked it down to certain viruses like the blaster worm and its
>>> variants.
>>> The only work around, not fix, is to manually delete the virus from
>>> the server first and configure Norton to not scan dbx files in its
>>> weekly scans
>>> or auto protect. That leaves emails completely unprotected.
>>
>> You didn't use the software properly if you had that problem. I have
>> been using Norton and Symantec since they were out on the market,
>> have more than 1000+ nodes using it, and the only time we have any
>> issues is when the exclusions are not properly setup, when some
>> idiot installs a service that uses files and doesn't properly check
>> the AV settings or specifics vs his software.
>>
>> As for outlook, why would you scan the outlook file? Why would not
>> just scan the SMTP and POP sessions (or IMAP) for bad things so that
>> they are removed without impact to the files.
>>
>> The only time I've seen Norton screw up a INBOX is when it was
>> scanning the files themselves instead of the sessions (smtp/pop) -
>> if you don't set it up properly then you can't really complain.
>>
>> --
>
> Add me to the confused list. I am using Norton AV 2002 and have
> *.dbx in my exclusions and also have both incoming and outgoing
> emails check for scanning. I this a reaonably correct configuration?
>
> I can find nowhere in the NAV Options setup to scan the SMTP and POP
> sessions. What am I missing.
>
> Thank you for any thoughts you might have for this mixed up user.
>
>>
>> spam999free@rrohio.com
>> remove 999 in order to email me

Turn off email scanning in your anti-virus. It provides no added
protection.

The Other E-Mail Threat: File Corruption in Outlook Express
Published: November 18, 2004
By Tom Koch
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/community/columns/f...

Email scanning slows down Sending and Receiving, sometimes enough that OE
times out. Since some of the received messages have large (often virus)
attachments, which exasperates the problem.
Some Comcast users have found it necessary to totally uninstall Norton and
switch to the free AVG with mail scanning off. Norton invented email
scanning and here's what they say:

"Disabling Email Scanning does not leave you unprotected against viruses
that
are distributed as email attachments. Norton AntiVirus Auto-Protect scans
incoming files as they are saved to your hard drive, including email and
email attachments. Email Scanning is just another layer on top of this. To
make sure that Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep
Auto-Protect enabled and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have
the most recent virus definitions."
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/d4578f66d8...

"...your computer is protected if Auto-Protect is enabled. Auto-Protect
scans any incoming files, including email attachments, when the files are
saved to your hard drive."
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/2001...

"NAV provides multiple layers of protection. Email scanning is just one of
those layers. Even if you are not running Email Scanning, your computer is
protected against viruses that are distributed as email attachments by NAV
Auto-Protect. Auto-Protect will scan any incoming files, including email
attachments, as they are saved to your hard drive. To make sure that
Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep Auto-Protect enabled
and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have the most recent virus
definitions."
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sunset-c2002kb.nsf...

See also
http://help.expedient.com/mailnews/norton_antivirus.sht...

So Symantec used to say this often and clearly. The newer stuff doesn't
have the statement included as it was considered an embarrassment. If you
know anyone who programs for Norton try to get them to talk about it.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE
Please respond in Newsgroup only. Do not send email
http://www.fjsmjs.com
Protect your PC
http://www.microsoft.com./athome/security/protect/defau...
http://defendingyourmachine.blogspot.com/
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 2:13:40 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

In article <#RvQN8EvFHA.3256@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
maskedandanonymous.org says...
> I am not an expert. You don't have the balls to state this on
> microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress, do you? That's
> where the experts are and that's where it is on topic and where the experts
> can explain why scanning for viruses in OE is not a good idea. Can you do
> it? I crossposted this message there for your convenience.

Well, I've been installing servers all day, more than 8 hours away from
the group - and other than butts (who no one believes anymore) there has
been only one reply indicating a possible problem (due to proxy and
time-out, not corruption, and that's got to do with Network speed and
system speed), and a mention that it does happen.

So, Alias, while I don't doubt that it happens, if one follows normal
methods for installing quality AV software and databases are excluded
and real-time session scanning is enabled, you are very unlikely to have
any issues.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 2:56:53 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

In article <ODMIlEKvFHA.3740@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>,
XXXXXXXX@widomaker.com says...
> Add me to the confused list. I am using Norton AV 2002 and have *.dbx in my
> exclusions and also have both incoming and outgoing emails check for
> scanning. I this a reaonably correct configuration?
>
> I can find nowhere in the NAV Options setup to scan the SMTP and POP
> sessions. What am I missing.
>
> Thank you for any thoughts you might have for this mixed up user.

I don't have 2002 anymore, but if you look at options, it should have
email settings. If you see the little pop-up in the lower right when you
SEND email, it's scanning outbound and that should also mean it's
scanning inbound via session, not file on your drive.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 2:56:54 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d97bac2d3532d2098a0c5@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> In article <ODMIlEKvFHA.3740@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>,
> XXXXXXXX@widomaker.com says...
>> Add me to the confused list. I am using Norton AV 2002 and have *.dbx in
>> my
>> exclusions and also have both incoming and outgoing emails check for
>> scanning. I this a reaonably correct configuration?
>>
>> I can find nowhere in the NAV Options setup to scan the SMTP and POP
>> sessions. What am I missing.
>>
>> Thank you for any thoughts you might have for this mixed up user.
>
> I don't have 2002 anymore, but if you look at options, it should have
> email settings. If you see the little pop-up in the lower right when you
> SEND email, it's scanning outbound and that should also mean it's
> scanning inbound via session, not file on your drive.
>
> --

Thank you.

Ah! Then the exclusions just apply to the file scans?

>
> spam999free@rrohio.com
> remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 3:23:26 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

In article <#tMN0ZKvFHA.3236@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl>,
XXXXXXXX@widomaker.com says...
> Ah! Then the exclusions just apply to the file scans?

Yes, you don't want to scan files that are database type files in
general. If you go to Symantec's support site you can query for how to
configure your product for use with Outlook Express.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 4:07:27 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

Your answers show just how limited your experience is and your knowledge
level (wipe a system to remove spyware) is. SAV Corp version 10 is what is
currently being used. Symantec detects the virus inbound, it does not know
how to handle it so it grabs the whole inbox and quarantines it. It still
does not remove the virus from the server. Norton sent a Rep out because
they did not believe us. This happens on Macs, in OE, Netscape, and Eudora.
The only work around is to exclude dbx files from the scans or disable
Norton, restore the inbox from quarantine, download all the messages from
the server, manually delete the virus, re-enable Norton. We chose the
disable Norton method because we need our email protected. Symantec could
not fix this issue. This does not happen with Outlook. We opted to upgrade
our email servers and use Sendmail http://www.sendmail.com/. Leythos because
you have never seen a problem does not mean it does not exist.

--


The best live web video on the internet http://www.seedsv.com/webdemo.htm
NEW Embedded system W/Linux. We now sell DVR cards.
See it all at http://www.seedsv.com/products.htm
Sharpvision simply the best http://www.seedsv.com



"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d97b09e71d7f76998a0c3@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> In article <#RvQN8EvFHA.3256@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> maskedandanonymous.org says...
>> I am not an expert. You don't have the balls to state this on
>> microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress, do you? That's
>> where the experts are and that's where it is on topic and where the
>> experts
>> can explain why scanning for viruses in OE is not a good idea. Can you do
>> it? I crossposted this message there for your convenience.
>
> Well, I've been installing servers all day, more than 8 hours away from
> the group - and other than butts (who no one believes anymore) there has
> been only one reply indicating a possible problem (due to proxy and
> time-out, not corruption, and that's got to do with Network speed and
> system speed), and a mention that it does happen.
>
> So, Alias, while I don't doubt that it happens, if one follows normal
> methods for installing quality AV software and databases are excluded
> and real-time session scanning is enabled, you are very unlikely to have
> any issues.
>
> --
>
> spam999free@rrohio.com
> remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 4:24:36 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

In article <3jnXe.752$Ba2.599@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>, pcbutts1
@seedsv.com says...
> Your answers show just how limited your experience is and your knowledge
> level (wipe a system to remove spyware) is. SAV Corp version 10 is what is
> currently being used. Symantec detects the virus inbound, it does not know
> how to handle it so it grabs the whole inbox and quarantines it.

Sorry, I've got more than 1000 nodes with Symantec Corporate Edition
with Groupware for Exchange and never seen a single problem on any of
them. In addition to that, we have about 200 users with just POP/SMTP
connections and none of them experience what you describe either - and
they have viruses removed in the POP session.

> It still
> does not remove the virus from the server.

How the heck would a scanner running on YOUR workstation remove a virus
from the mail server not protected by the AV product - answer, it can't.

If you are not running an exchange (or other email server) aware AV
product on the server you're a fool.

> Norton sent a Rep out because
> they did not believe us. This happens on Macs, in OE, Netscape, and Eudora.
> The only work around is to exclude dbx files from the scans or disable
> Norton, restore the inbox from quarantine, download all the messages from
> the server, manually delete the virus, re-enable Norton. We chose the
> disable Norton method because we need our email protected. Symantec could
> not fix this issue. This does not happen with Outlook. We opted to upgrade
> our email servers and use Sendmail http://www.sendmail.com/.

> Leythos because you have never seen a problem does not mean it does not exist.

I agree, first time I've agreed with you, but, because you've
experienced a problem, it doesn't mean that everyone running your
configuration will experience it - as we don't.

So, no you have a clear understanding - some people are impacted, some
are not, in MY experience MOST ARE NOT impacted by using Symantec or
Norton SMTP/POP (or Exchange) session scanning.


--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
September 19, 2005 4:57:10 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d97b09e71d7f76998a0c3@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> In article <#RvQN8EvFHA.3256@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> maskedandanonymous.org says...
>> I am not an expert. You don't have the balls to state this on
>> microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress, do you? That's
>> where the experts are and that's where it is on topic and where the
>> experts
>> can explain why scanning for viruses in OE is not a good idea. Can you do
>> it? I crossposted this message there for your convenience.
>
> Well, I've been installing servers all day, more than 8 hours away from
> the group - and other than butts (who no one believes anymore) there has
> been only one reply indicating a possible problem (due to proxy and
> time-out, not corruption, and that's got to do with Network speed and
> system speed), and a mention that it does happen.
>
> So, Alias, while I don't doubt that it happens, if one follows normal
> methods for installing quality AV software and databases are excluded
> and real-time session scanning is enabled, you are very unlikely to have
> any issues.

I've never gotten a virus or any other nasty from email, using OE so why
should I add yet another thing to do? I have my filters set up so that most
of the spam goes right into either the deleted items or the Inbox folder.

Alias
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 4:57:11 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

In article <e60fMRKvFHA.3256@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
maskedandanonymous.org says...
>
> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d97b09e71d7f76998a0c3@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> > In article <#RvQN8EvFHA.3256@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> > maskedandanonymous.org says...
> >> I am not an expert. You don't have the balls to state this on
> >> microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress, do you? That's
> >> where the experts are and that's where it is on topic and where the
> >> experts
> >> can explain why scanning for viruses in OE is not a good idea. Can you do
> >> it? I crossposted this message there for your convenience.
> >
> > Well, I've been installing servers all day, more than 8 hours away from
> > the group - and other than butts (who no one believes anymore) there has
> > been only one reply indicating a possible problem (due to proxy and
> > time-out, not corruption, and that's got to do with Network speed and
> > system speed), and a mention that it does happen.
> >
> > So, Alias, while I don't doubt that it happens, if one follows normal
> > methods for installing quality AV software and databases are excluded
> > and real-time session scanning is enabled, you are very unlikely to have
> > any issues.
>
> I've never gotten a virus or any other nasty from email, using OE so why
> should I add yet another thing to do? I have my filters set up so that most
> of the spam goes right into either the deleted items or the Inbox folder.

Which has nothing to do with protecting your system against a virus -
just because you put them (most of the time) in your deleted items
folder does not mean that you don't expose your system to exploits.

If you want to secure your email, you need to filter it of malicious
content.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 4:57:12 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d97c0bf9c94751398a0c6@news-server.columbus.rr.com
> In article <e60fMRKvFHA.3256@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> maskedandanonymous.org says...
>>
>> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1d97b09e71d7f76998a0c3@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
>>> In article <#RvQN8EvFHA.3256@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
>>> maskedandanonymous.org says...
>>>> I am not an expert. You don't have the balls to state this on
>>>> microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress, do you?
>>>> That's where the experts are and that's where it is on topic and
>>>> where the experts
>>>> can explain why scanning for viruses in OE is not a good idea. Can
>>>> you do it? I crossposted this message there for your convenience.
>>>
>>> Well, I've been installing servers all day, more than 8 hours away
>>> from the group - and other than butts (who no one believes anymore)
>>> there has been only one reply indicating a possible problem (due to
>>> proxy and time-out, not corruption, and that's got to do with
>>> Network speed and system speed), and a mention that it does happen.
>>>
>>> So, Alias, while I don't doubt that it happens, if one follows
>>> normal methods for installing quality AV software and databases are
>>> excluded and real-time session scanning is enabled, you are very
>>> unlikely to have any issues.
>>
>> I've never gotten a virus or any other nasty from email, using OE so
>> why should I add yet another thing to do? I have my filters set up
>> so that most of the spam goes right into either the deleted items or
>> the Inbox folder.
>
> Which has nothing to do with protecting your system against a virus -
> just because you put them (most of the time) in your deleted items
> folder does not mean that you don't expose your system to exploits.
>
> If you want to secure your email, you need to filter it of malicious
> content.

Scanning email does absolutely nothing to protect your system. Nothing at
all. If you have the AV running in the background it will prevent you from
opening or saving any virus attachment (if it's any good).

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE
Please respond in Newsgroup only. Do not send email
http://www.fjsmjs.com
Protect your PC
http://www.microsoft.com./athome/security/protect/defau...
http://defendingyourmachine.blogspot.com/
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 4:57:13 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

In article <#OVlVoKvFHA.1032@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>,
franksaunders@mvps.org says...
> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d97c0bf9c94751398a0c6@news-server.columbus.rr.com
> > In article <e60fMRKvFHA.3256@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> > maskedandanonymous.org says...
> >>
> >> "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
> >> news:MPG.1d97b09e71d7f76998a0c3@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> >>> In article <#RvQN8EvFHA.3256@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, aka@[notme]
> >>> maskedandanonymous.org says...
> >>>> I am not an expert. You don't have the balls to state this on
> >>>> microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress, do you?
> >>>> That's where the experts are and that's where it is on topic and
> >>>> where the experts
> >>>> can explain why scanning for viruses in OE is not a good idea. Can
> >>>> you do it? I crossposted this message there for your convenience.
> >>>
> >>> Well, I've been installing servers all day, more than 8 hours away
> >>> from the group - and other than butts (who no one believes anymore)
> >>> there has been only one reply indicating a possible problem (due to
> >>> proxy and time-out, not corruption, and that's got to do with
> >>> Network speed and system speed), and a mention that it does happen.
> >>>
> >>> So, Alias, while I don't doubt that it happens, if one follows
> >>> normal methods for installing quality AV software and databases are
> >>> excluded and real-time session scanning is enabled, you are very
> >>> unlikely to have any issues.
> >>
> >> I've never gotten a virus or any other nasty from email, using OE so
> >> why should I add yet another thing to do? I have my filters set up
> >> so that most of the spam goes right into either the deleted items or
> >> the Inbox folder.
> >
> > Which has nothing to do with protecting your system against a virus -
> > just because you put them (most of the time) in your deleted items
> > folder does not mean that you don't expose your system to exploits.
> >
> > If you want to secure your email, you need to filter it of malicious
> > content.
>
> Scanning email does absolutely nothing to protect your system. Nothing at
> all. If you have the AV running in the background it will prevent you from
> opening or saving any virus attachment (if it's any good).

Tell that to people that run Exchange or other email servers. I run
about 40 Exchange servers, we use mostly Symantec Mail Security to scan
the inbound and outbound sessions, never lost an email, never corrupted
the message store, never let anything malicious into the system because
of the scanning of the session and being able to remove content before
it's put in the store.

Same with my POP accounts that I use for Usenet, never, not in all the
years I've been using it, found a single problem with session scanning,
nor have anyone I know and anyone that I know knows. Again, I'm not
saying that it can't corrupt the file, but if you don't scan the Outlook
files you are very unlikely to have any issues.

I never want it to reach my drives before it gets detected.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 4:57:14 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

In article <ul4fKCLvFHA.1988@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>,
Nospam@mymail.invalid says...
> We get complaints about lost mail and error messages in the OE newsgroups
> all the time and the solution is to disable e-mail scanning.
>
> This is from Symantec, but applies to all A/V programs:
>
> From:
> http://snipurl.com/bmf6
>
> Is my computer still protected against viruses if I disable Email Scanning?
>
> Disabling Email Scanning does not leave you unprotected against viruses that
> are distributed as email attachments. Norton AntiVirus Auto-Protect scans
> incoming files as they are saved to your hard drive, including email and
> email attachments. Email Scanning is just another layer on top of this. To
> make sure that Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep
> Auto-Protect enabled and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have
> the most recent virus definitions.
>
> Visit this group more often.

While I appreciate the information, and I have not denied that it can
happen, in the environment we manage and the ones that we support that
are unmanaged, we have never seen issues with Outlook Express and email
session scanning. I will continue to leave it enabled at all times,
until we find a number of cases in our environments that indicate a
problem with session scanning in email.


--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 4:57:15 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d97d0a45216920f98a0cc@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> While I appreciate the information, and I have not denied that it can
> happen, in the environment we manage and the ones that we support that
> are unmanaged, we have never seen issues with Outlook Express and email
> session scanning. I will continue to leave it enabled at all times,
> until we find a number of cases in our environments that indicate a
> problem with session scanning in email.
>

That's fine in your environment with professional IT personnel who can do
backups routinely. For the average user, email scanning can and does on
rare occasions find a virus and blocks the entire DBX file (the database
where mail messages are stored) from being opened, i.e., it is quarantined
and not openable thereafter. In some cases, antivirus scanning has written
all zeroes to the dbx file making messages unrecoverable unless one resorts
to 3rd party (often expensive) utilities than can extract information at the
disk level (if not overwritten).

Your advice is fine for your environment, but please do not expect all users
to have either the degree of technical proficiency that you may have, nor
expect them to be as knowledgeable as you may be about setting up an
antivirus program. Most users take default settings out of the box and
those settings are not always the best for the user.

We have hundreds of users who have lost important email messages due to
email scanning. Do a google search for "lost mail" + "Outlook Express" and
you will find ample evidence of that fact. Or just continue your diatribe
if you feel you must, since you appear to be incapable of admitting that
such things can happen in the "real world."
--
Jim Pickering, MVP, Outlook Express
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=F9F51EF1-4AE3...
Please deliver feedback to the newsgroup, so that others can be helped.
Thanks.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 4:57:15 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

I have personally experienced connection difficulties and account corruption
with Trend Micro and Norton (especially outgoing)e-mail message scan. There
have been problems reported and fixed here involving other suppliers of A/V
message scan products.

--
Tim K.
aka Kuay Tim
MS-MVP - (IE/OE)
Lynnwood, WA
*
"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d97d0a45216920f98a0cc@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
In article <ul4fKCLvFHA.1988@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>,
Nospam@mymail.invalid says...
> We get complaints about lost mail and error messages in the OE newsgroups
> all the time and the solution is to disable e-mail scanning.
>
> This is from Symantec, but applies to all A/V programs:
>
> From:
> http://snipurl.com/bmf6
>
> Is my computer still protected against viruses if I disable Email
> Scanning?
>
> Disabling Email Scanning does not leave you unprotected against viruses
> that
> are distributed as email attachments. Norton AntiVirus Auto-Protect scans
> incoming files as they are saved to your hard drive, including email and
> email attachments. Email Scanning is just another layer on top of this. To
> make sure that Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep
> Auto-Protect enabled and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have
> the most recent virus definitions.
>
> Visit this group more often.

While I appreciate the information, and I have not denied that it can
happen, in the environment we manage and the ones that we support that
are unmanaged, we have never seen issues with Outlook Express and email
session scanning. I will continue to leave it enabled at all times,
until we find a number of cases in our environments that indicate a
problem with session scanning in email.


--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 5:11:00 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

Wrong Frank.
And the junk I just read from you is just that, junk. You need to find out
the way this software really works before condemning it.
I have always used the e-mail scan in SystemSuite. It has never caused a
problem. It does not scan by proxy server. It scans by directing the e-mail
to a temp file on the computer, does a virus scan on the body as well as any
attachments, it then OE or Outlook uploads the e-mail from this temp file.
Yes it redirects it but not to a web site to get lost.

The only problems with OE folders I have ever had, has been caused by OE
and the constant urge to compact. When will MS learn that over compaction
leads to corruption. MS is the biggest creator problem with their own
software

I do not know how Norton's or McAfee's does it. I haven't used Norton's ever
( always heard too many bad things about it), and it has been '96 since I
used McAfee. Maybe you need to go to tech support at V-Com. They will
explain the scanning of incoming e-mail as the Micro-Trend engine they use
does.

I spoke to 10 software and hardware techs about OE and Outlook. They repair
hardware and software everyday, it is what they do. They agree with me that
OE and Outlook's biggest enemy is themselves, the compaction by default
problem, and the inherent problems with the proprietary and faulty, file
system used by both for the folders.

Learn Frank, I still do even at my age I am 60 (with over 30+ year of
software and hardware repair). That is why I contacted customer support at
V-Com to find out how the e-mail scanning worked. I am right, your
description of how it is done by the Trend-Micro engine is very wrong.

Before you tell me or Leythos how the "e-mail" is scanned and how it damages
the folders, check out how it is really done by each the anti-virus
companies. Learn something and form your own opinion based on real
knowledge, obtained from the source, rather that the same information MS has
been giving out for more years than anyone wants to remember. I think the
stand you are taking, comes from MS as a way to explain the faults inherent
in the OE and Outlook software. It is much easier to blame something else
for your problems than to fix the mess you made yourself.

"old" devildog
--Semper Fi --
---------------------


"Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE" <franksaunders@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:o Rl3gmKvFHA.2880@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
| "Jack Gillis" <XXXXXXXX@widomaker.com> wrote in message
| news:o DMIlEKvFHA.3740@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl
| > "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
| > news:MPG.1d97ae45a38ea8f98a0c2@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
| >> In article <iMgXe.64$ri6.57@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, pcbutts1
| >> @seedsv.com says...
| >>> Then explain why Norton will quarantine the whole inbox in OE,
| >>> Netscape mail, Eudora, and it does this on Mac's also and Mac's are
| >>> not effected by
| >>> most windows viruses. Norton is the only AV that I have seen that
| >>> does this.
| >>> Norton reps could not fix this on any of our 8000 systems Mac
| >>> included. We
| >>> tracked it down to certain viruses like the blaster worm and its
| >>> variants.
| >>> The only work around, not fix, is to manually delete the virus from
| >>> the server first and configure Norton to not scan dbx files in its
| >>> weekly scans
| >>> or auto protect. That leaves emails completely unprotected.
| >>
| >> You didn't use the software properly if you had that problem. I have
| >> been using Norton and Symantec since they were out on the market,
| >> have more than 1000+ nodes using it, and the only time we have any
| >> issues is when the exclusions are not properly setup, when some
| >> idiot installs a service that uses files and doesn't properly check
| >> the AV settings or specifics vs his software.
| >>
| >> As for outlook, why would you scan the outlook file? Why would not
| >> just scan the SMTP and POP sessions (or IMAP) for bad things so that
| >> they are removed without impact to the files.
| >>
| >> The only time I've seen Norton screw up a INBOX is when it was
| >> scanning the files themselves instead of the sessions (smtp/pop) -
| >> if you don't set it up properly then you can't really complain.
| >>
| >> --
| >
| > Add me to the confused list. I am using Norton AV 2002 and have
| > *.dbx in my exclusions and also have both incoming and outgoing
| > emails check for scanning. I this a reaonably correct configuration?
| >
| > I can find nowhere in the NAV Options setup to scan the SMTP and POP
| > sessions. What am I missing.
| >
| > Thank you for any thoughts you might have for this mixed up user.
| >
| >>
| >> spam999free@rrohio.com
| >> remove 999 in order to email me
|
| Turn off email scanning in your anti-virus. It provides no added
| protection.
|
| The Other E-Mail Threat: File Corruption in Outlook Express
| Published: November 18, 2004
| By Tom Koch
| http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/community/columns/f...
|
| Email scanning slows down Sending and Receiving, sometimes enough that OE
| times out. Since some of the received messages have large (often virus)
| attachments, which exasperates the problem.
| Some Comcast users have found it necessary to totally uninstall Norton and
| switch to the free AVG with mail scanning off. Norton invented email
| scanning and here's what they say:
|
| "Disabling Email Scanning does not leave you unprotected against viruses
| that
| are distributed as email attachments. Norton AntiVirus Auto-Protect scans
| incoming files as they are saved to your hard drive, including email and
| email attachments. Email Scanning is just another layer on top of this. To
| make sure that Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep
| Auto-Protect enabled and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have
| the most recent virus definitions."
|
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/d4578f66d8...
|
| "...your computer is protected if Auto-Protect is enabled. Auto-Protect
| scans any incoming files, including email attachments, when the files are
| saved to your hard drive."
| http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/2001...
|
| "NAV provides multiple layers of protection. Email scanning is just one of
| those layers. Even if you are not running Email Scanning, your computer is
| protected against viruses that are distributed as email attachments by NAV
| Auto-Protect. Auto-Protect will scan any incoming files, including email
| attachments, as they are saved to your hard drive. To make sure that
| Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep Auto-Protect
enabled
| and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have the most recent virus
| definitions."
|
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sunset-c2002kb.nsf...
|
| See also
| http://help.expedient.com/mailnews/norton_antivirus.sht...
|
| So Symantec used to say this often and clearly. The newer stuff doesn't
| have the statement included as it was considered an embarrassment. If you
| know anyone who programs for Norton try to get them to talk about it.
|
| --
| Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE
| Please respond in Newsgroup only. Do not send email
| http://www.fjsmjs.com
| Protect your PC
| http://www.microsoft.com./athome/security/protect/defau...
| http://defendingyourmachine.blogspot.com/
|
|
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 5:37:27 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

> How the heck would a scanner running on YOUR workstation remove a virus
> from the mail server not protected by the AV product - answer, it can't.

When Norton detects the virus it attempt to quarantine it but grabs the
inbox instead. When the inbox is restored and the infected email is manually
deleted from the inbox, during the next check mail session the same virus,
that Norton supposedly quarantined, is still on the server and re-downloaded
thus starting the whole quarantined inbox process over again. We have to
disable Norton or access the server and delete it from there. These are POP3
not exchange servers.

--


The best live web video on the internet http://www.seedsv.com/webdemo.htm
NEW Embedded system W/Linux. We now sell DVR cards.
See it all at http://www.seedsv.com/products.htm
Sharpvision simply the best http://www.seedsv.com



"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d97cf597759c9cb98a0cb@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> In article <3jnXe.752$Ba2.599@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>, pcbutts1
> @seedsv.com says...
>> Your answers show just how limited your experience is and your knowledge
>> level (wipe a system to remove spyware) is. SAV Corp version 10 is what
>> is
>> currently being used. Symantec detects the virus inbound, it does not
>> know
>> how to handle it so it grabs the whole inbox and quarantines it.
>
> Sorry, I've got more than 1000 nodes with Symantec Corporate Edition
> with Groupware for Exchange and never seen a single problem on any of
> them. In addition to that, we have about 200 users with just POP/SMTP
> connections and none of them experience what you describe either - and
> they have viruses removed in the POP session.
>
>> It still
>> does not remove the virus from the server.
>
> How the heck would a scanner running on YOUR workstation remove a virus
> from the mail server not protected by the AV product - answer, it can't.
>
> If you are not running an exchange (or other email server) aware AV
> product on the server you're a fool.
>
>> Norton sent a Rep out because
>> they did not believe us. This happens on Macs, in OE, Netscape, and
>> Eudora.
>> The only work around is to exclude dbx files from the scans or disable
>> Norton, restore the inbox from quarantine, download all the messages from
>> the server, manually delete the virus, re-enable Norton. We chose the
>> disable Norton method because we need our email protected. Symantec could
>> not fix this issue. This does not happen with Outlook. We opted to
>> upgrade
>> our email servers and use Sendmail http://www.sendmail.com/.
>
>> Leythos because you have never seen a problem does not mean it does not
>> exist.
>
> I agree, first time I've agreed with you, but, because you've
> experienced a problem, it doesn't mean that everyone running your
> configuration will experience it - as we don't.
>
> So, no you have a clear understanding - some people are impacted, some
> are not, in MY experience MOST ARE NOT impacted by using Symantec or
> Norton SMTP/POP (or Exchange) session scanning.
>
>
> --
>
> spam999free@rrohio.com
> remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 6:35:05 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Leythos wrote:
>
> If you don't download your email, how would you know if it had an
> attachment in the first place. Unless you do some form of check that
> doesn't pull the actual email you can't tell if it's a malicious
> attachment or not - that is for people without a firewall with an SMTP

Review mail on the server. Delete messages from people you dont know
that also include attachments. Several email programs have this option,
including Pegausus. And, there are other free utils that do the same. In
other words, you can download headers and size, but not the actual
message/attachment first.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 11:33:49 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

""old" devildog" <teyoungATmchsiDOTcom> wrote in message
news:o lOOoDOvFHA.2540@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Wrong Frank.
> And the junk I just read from you is just that, junk. You need to find out
> the way this software really works before condemning it.
> I have always used the e-mail scan in SystemSuite. It has never caused a
> problem. It does not scan by proxy server. It scans by directing the
> e-mail
> to a temp file on the computer, does a virus scan on the body as well as
> any
> attachments, it then OE or Outlook uploads the e-mail from this temp file.
> Yes it redirects it but not to a web site to get lost.

That IS a proxy. Email scanning Proxy servers generally run on your own
machine - "Localhost" or 127.0.0.1

A "Proxy" does not have to be a "Website"

Please provide a link to this information you are quoting.

> The only problems with OE folders I have ever had, has been caused by OE
> and the constant urge to compact. When will MS learn that over compaction
> leads to corruption. MS is the biggest creator problem with their own
> software

And that is optional - you can do it manually, but in fact my own experience
indicates that OE compaction works fine until interfered with by some
external program. You cannot "Over compact" email folders, they are not
"Compressed" but simply cleaned up to remove obsolete entries. I would agree
that manual is best but the problems (if any) with compaction seem quite
clearly to be realted to having too many other things going on at the same
time, particularly with "Aggressive" software like Antivirus and especially
if it tries to access the message stores themselves.


> I do not know how Norton's or McAfee's does it. I haven't used Norton's
> ever
> ( always heard too many bad things about it), and it has been '96 since I
> used McAfee. Maybe you need to go to tech support at V-Com. They will
> explain the scanning of incoming e-mail as the Micro-Trend engine they use
> does.


The versions I am familiar with use a Proxy on the local machine....


> I spoke to 10 software and hardware techs about OE and Outlook. They
> repair
> hardware and software everyday, it is what they do. They agree with me
> that
> OE and Outlook's biggest enemy is themselves, the compaction by default
> problem, and the inherent problems with the proprietary and faulty, file
> system used by both for the folders.


Nobody is likely to disagree that the OE system can be broken, however I
suspect that people are "Agreeing" because it's easier than arguing :) 

There is nothing "Wrong" with the system per-se, but it is vulnerable to
interference from outside.


> Learn Frank, I still do even at my age I am 60 (with over 30+ year of
> software and hardware repair). That is why I contacted customer support at
> V-Com to find out how the e-mail scanning worked. I am right, your
> description of how it is done by the Trend-Micro engine is very wrong.

There are several factors involved. Email "Scanning" as it is often called
is probably a misnomer... email "Filtering" might be better, this is the
situation where OE passes the request for mail via a "Proxy", or as you
described it a "Temporary File" and then (As you also described it) OE reads
the temporary file. The problem seems to come into it when the AV software
detects a virus and tries to either yank it out of the stream immediately or
puts up some kind of warning. OE does not seem to like that behaviour.

A secondary problem is when something tries to open or examine the .dbx
files while OE itself is trying to use them. It is generally pointless
looking for viral code in these files anyway since whatever is in there is
not going to be executed, but the act of doing so can lock OE out and cause
the corruption.


> Before you tell me or Leythos how the "e-mail" is scanned and how it
> damages
> the folders, check out how it is really done by each the anti-virus
> companies. Learn something and form your own opinion based on real
> knowledge, obtained from the source, rather that the same information MS
> has
> been giving out for more years than anyone wants to remember. I think the
> stand you are taking, comes from MS as a way to explain the faults
> inherent
> in the OE and Outlook software. It is much easier to blame something else
> for your problems than to fix the mess you made yourself.


Sometimes one's own advice is useful too.

You have to remember that MVPs have to answer the same questions over and
over again, and writing a white paper every time is not feasible. Sometimes
too much data causes confusion so one tries to keep explanations
"Simplified". People arrive here looking for a solution to their specific
problem mostly, not a training course.

Frank's opinion is doubtless like mine, based upong real life experiences
and not what we are "Told to say" by anyone, including Microsoft. Nobody
minds being corrected, no single person can hope to know everything about
everything, but your reference to email getting lost at some "Website"
clearly indicates that you should follow your own advice and learn how
things work.

Charlie
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 2:40:50 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

Charlie

I do speak from real life. I have used OE personally since '98 for my email.
At one time it retrieved from Yahoo Mail and Hotmail only. I never used the
e-mail account setups available from my ISP. When Yahoo Mail locked out OE I
dropped my accounts with them. I still use 2 Hotmail accounts as "spam"
accounts. They are synced ( headers only) when I download my ISP accounts.
Too bad rules can't be applied to the hotmail accounts. I have never had a
corrupted e-mail or folder caused from running anti-virus e-mail scanning in
the last 7 years (is this real world enough). The only corrupted folders
that have happened so far are the Hotmail bulk folders. As the junk in them
is not important, when it happens I just delete them and when OE opens again
they return empty and working until the compaction corruption happens again.
This happens at least 1 time a month. The Micro-Trend e-mail scan does not
scan the hotmail accounts. It only scans the POP3 accounts. It does not scan
the HTTP (hotmail) accounts. I have never even tried to set it to do so and
I am not sure it can be set to do so. The only time the OE folders
themselves are scanned by the anti-virus scan is when I do a deep scan on
the computer, both HD's are scanned, but OE is not running, in fact I am
sleeping when this happens, so the scan is the only thing running. If e-mail
scanning corrupts then why doesn't the real time scans preformed each and
every time an app is started corrupt the files in the app? The reason is
the scan takes place before the app is launched and any files are opened.
Some way with e-mail scanning. As long as you do not use the preview window
(should not even be able to use on e-mail, in newsgroups it is ok to use the
preview window), the email is scanned before you open it, therefore logic
dictates, the file is not damaged

Yes the "proxy" as you call it is on my computer (it is still just a temp
folder, used to hold files to be scanned), but the incoming e-mail from all
POP3 accounts are shunted to a temp folder, a scan is run and then it is
sent to OE. It does not attempt to recover, repair or strip the infected
attachment of any e-mail it flag's, it just deletes it. I receive a pop up
telling me the e-mail was deleted and the name of the virus it contained. I
set it up that way, because if it has virus signatures in the attachment or
in the body I want it gone, not floating around on my HD, as with a wife and
2 sons (13 & 11) on line and reading e-mail I take no chances. The boys are
never allowed to be on line without supervision. I love my wife dearly, but
internet security is something she doesn't understand. Her Masters is not in
Computer Science (she is a physiologist). She will open any e-mail from any
sender if the subject line is interesting. That is why virus scanning on the
POP3 accounts is so important.
I can see the posts from people who have had problems with e-mail scanning,
but the problems mainly come from using Norton's or McAfee's. I think it
properly set up as Leythos and I have both done, with the correct software,
e-mail scanning is safe to use and causes less problems that OE and Outlook
cause to themselves. And by the way archiving any e-mail for more than a few
days in any folder in OE is dangerous. Even the folders you create. That is
why I back up OE every 24 hours. The backup file, located on my D drive, is
safe from any problems in OE and XP. The OE freebie back up program works
well, and so far has never corrupted any e-mail or folder. I have recovered
e-mail over a year old without a problem.

"Nobody is likely to disagree that the OE system can be broken, however I
suspect that people are "Agreeing" because it's easier than arguing :) "
Funny thing, when I was the boss who signed their paychecks, they still
argued with me every day. Between all 10 of them, the short timer has been
there 12 years, and the 1st guy I hired has now been there for 24 years. But
they now own the business, and they have real world experience totaled
between all of them in excess of 100 years. I trusted them all for years,
they are well trained on both hardware and software and we all learned
together. In how many companies does the owner help install $750,000
systems for a week and make service calls to the clients office when all the
tech are booked up. I did and would still be doing it if my health hadn't
crashed.

I may be out of the business, but the 10 of them made a lot of money for me,
and recalls to repair the same problem was always free. We would have never
made the money we did if we spent too much time going back time after time.
Also the business would never have kept the doors open if we hadn't been
good at what we did. Installing hardware and software for use in the
aircraft industry, is not simple work, getting hardware from different
configurations to work together is bad enough, but adding all of the
different configurations of software and securing the systems is very hard
today. But not as hard as it was 25+ years ago, when nearly all computers
were so proprietary in the hardware and software they used, that getting it
all to "work together" was a nightmare, and security was not as big an issue
then. I remember shelling out 3 grand for an external Sony CDR burner, and
the CDR's cost 50 buck apiece. Shelling out nearly 4 grand apiece for 5
laptops using Win '95 and purchasing extra HD's for each, so we could
install and use NT and Win 3.x also.

"old' devildog
-- Semper Fi --

Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.
He who dies with the most toys is none the less, dead.
Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.
------------------------------


"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
news:o HE8jZRvFHA.3740@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
|
| ""old" devildog" <teyoungATmchsiDOTcom> wrote in message
| news:o lOOoDOvFHA.2540@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
| > Wrong Frank.
| > And the junk I just read from you is just that, junk. You need to find
out
| > the way this software really works before condemning it.
| > I have always used the e-mail scan in SystemSuite. It has never caused a
| > problem. It does not scan by proxy server. It scans by directing the
| > e-mail
| > to a temp file on the computer, does a virus scan on the body as well as
| > any
| > attachments, it then OE or Outlook uploads the e-mail from this temp
file.
| > Yes it redirects it but not to a web site to get lost.
|
| That IS a proxy. Email scanning Proxy servers generally run on your own
| machine - "Localhost" or 127.0.0.1
|
| A "Proxy" does not have to be a "Website"
|
| Please provide a link to this information you are quoting.
|
| > The only problems with OE folders I have ever had, has been caused by
OE
| > and the constant urge to compact. When will MS learn that over
compaction
| > leads to corruption. MS is the biggest creator problem with their own
| > software
|
| And that is optional - you can do it manually, but in fact my own
experience
| indicates that OE compaction works fine until interfered with by some
| external program. You cannot "Over compact" email folders, they are not
| "Compressed" but simply cleaned up to remove obsolete entries. I would
agree
| that manual is best but the problems (if any) with compaction seem quite
| clearly to be realted to having too many other things going on at the same
| time, particularly with "Aggressive" software like Antivirus and
especially
| if it tries to access the message stores themselves.
|
|
| > I do not know how Norton's or McAfee's does it. I haven't used Norton's
| > ever
| > ( always heard too many bad things about it), and it has been '96 since
I
| > used McAfee. Maybe you need to go to tech support at V-Com. They will
| > explain the scanning of incoming e-mail as the Micro-Trend engine they
use
| > does.
|
|
| The versions I am familiar with use a Proxy on the local machine....
|
|
| > I spoke to 10 software and hardware techs about OE and Outlook. They
| > repair
| > hardware and software everyday, it is what they do. They agree with me
| > that
| > OE and Outlook's biggest enemy is themselves, the compaction by default
| > problem, and the inherent problems with the proprietary and faulty, file
| > system used by both for the folders.
|
|
| Nobody is likely to disagree that the OE system can be broken, however I
| suspect that people are "Agreeing" because it's easier than arguing :) 
|
| There is nothing "Wrong" with the system per-se, but it is vulnerable to
| interference from outside.
|
|
| > Learn Frank, I still do even at my age I am 60 (with over 30+ year of
| > software and hardware repair). That is why I contacted customer support
at
| > V-Com to find out how the e-mail scanning worked. I am right, your
| > description of how it is done by the Trend-Micro engine is very wrong.
|
| There are several factors involved. Email "Scanning" as it is often called
| is probably a misnomer... email "Filtering" might be better, this is the
| situation where OE passes the request for mail via a "Proxy", or as you
| described it a "Temporary File" and then (As you also described it) OE
reads
| the temporary file. The problem seems to come into it when the AV software
| detects a virus and tries to either yank it out of the stream immediately
or
| puts up some kind of warning. OE does not seem to like that behaviour.
|
| A secondary problem is when something tries to open or examine the .dbx
| files while OE itself is trying to use them. It is generally pointless
| looking for viral code in these files anyway since whatever is in there is
| not going to be executed, but the act of doing so can lock OE out and
cause
| the corruption.
|
|
| > Before you tell me or Leythos how the "e-mail" is scanned and how it
| > damages
| > the folders, check out how it is really done by each the anti-virus
| > companies. Learn something and form your own opinion based on real
| > knowledge, obtained from the source, rather that the same information MS
| > has
| > been giving out for more years than anyone wants to remember. I think
the
| > stand you are taking, comes from MS as a way to explain the faults
| > inherent
| > in the OE and Outlook software. It is much easier to blame something
else
| > for your problems than to fix the mess you made yourself.
|
|
| Sometimes one's own advice is useful too.
|
| You have to remember that MVPs have to answer the same questions over and
| over again, and writing a white paper every time is not feasible.
Sometimes
| too much data causes confusion so one tries to keep explanations
| "Simplified". People arrive here looking for a solution to their specific
| problem mostly, not a training course.
|
| Frank's opinion is doubtless like mine, based upong real life experiences
| and not what we are "Told to say" by anyone, including Microsoft. Nobody
| minds being corrected, no single person can hope to know everything about
| everything, but your reference to email getting lost at some "Website"
| clearly indicates that you should follow your own advice and learn how
| things work.
|
| Charlie
|
|
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 11:59:28 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <432e699b$1$270$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com>, |@|.| says...
> Leythos wrote:
> >
> > If you don't download your email, how would you know if it had an
> > attachment in the first place. Unless you do some form of check that
> > doesn't pull the actual email you can't tell if it's a malicious
> > attachment or not - that is for people without a firewall with an SMTP
>
> Review mail on the server. Delete messages from people you dont know
> that also include attachments. Several email programs have this option,
> including Pegausus. And, there are other free utils that do the same. In
> other words, you can download headers and size, but not the actual
> message/attachment first.

Most people won't do that - they won't use the web interface to check
the messages and then delete them and then use OE to download the ones
they want.

They also won't just download the headers and then delete them email's
on the server as the delete checkmark is not set by default.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 1:37:05 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress (More info?)

"old" devildog wrote:
> I do speak from real life. I have used OE personally since '98 for my
> email.
> At one time it retrieved from Yahoo Mail and Hotmail only. I never used
> the
> e-mail account setups available from my ISP. When Yahoo Mail locked out OE
> I
> dropped my accounts with them.

You didn't have to: http://yahoopops.sourceforge.net/index.php

I still use 2 Hotmail accounts as "spam"

> ...I have never had a
> corrupted e-mail or folder caused from running anti-virus e-mail scanning
> in
> the last 7 years (is this real world enough).
<snip>

With all due respect, ODD, Frank and my other senior MVP colleagues here
have a wider range of experience in this matter than do you, and we've all
witnessed how AV scanning of incoming/outgoing mail has led to corruption in
the message store and loss of messages for thousands of users over the
years. cf.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/community/columns/f...

No, not all AV apps are as bad as, e.g., Norton or McAfee and I've had no
problem using AVG7's incoming scanning with OE6 in WinXP SP2. But
empiracally, the best advice we can give to users is to disable the
scanning, especially as it provides no additional protection.

Even Symantec says it's not necessary:

<paste>
Disabling Email Scanning does not leave you unprotected against viruses that
are distributed as email attachments. Norton AntiVirus Auto-Protect scans
incoming files as they are saved to your hard drive, including email and
email attachments. Email Scanning is just another layer on top of this. To
make sure that Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep
Auto-Protect enabled and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have
the most recent virus definitions.
</paste>
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/2002...
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 5:59:08 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Leythos wrote:
>
> > > If you don't download your email, how would you know if it had an
> > > attachment in the first place. Unless you do some form of check that
> > > doesn't pull the actual email you can't tell if it's a malicious
> > > attachment or not - that is for people without a firewall with an SMTP
> >
> > Review mail on the server. Delete messages from people you dont know
> > that also include attachments. Several email programs have this option,
> > including Pegausus. And, there are other free utils that do the same. In
> > other words, you can download headers and size, but not the actual
> > message/attachment first.
>
> Most people won't do that - they won't use the web interface to check
> the messages and then delete them and then use OE to download the ones
> they want.
>
> They also won't just download the headers and then delete them email's
> on the server as the delete checkmark is not set by default.

Yeah I know, just providing the way TO do it.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 2:38:49 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

In article <432fb288$1$196$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com>, |@|.| says...
> Leythos wrote:
> >
> > > > If you don't download your email, how would you know if it had an
> > > > attachment in the first place. Unless you do some form of check that
> > > > doesn't pull the actual email you can't tell if it's a malicious
> > > > attachment or not - that is for people without a firewall with an SMTP
> > >
> > > Review mail on the server. Delete messages from people you dont know
> > > that also include attachments. Several email programs have this option,
> > > including Pegausus. And, there are other free utils that do the same. In
> > > other words, you can download headers and size, but not the actual
> > > message/attachment first.
> >
> > Most people won't do that - they won't use the web interface to check
> > the messages and then delete them and then use OE to download the ones
> > they want.
> >
> > They also won't just download the headers and then delete them email's
> > on the server as the delete checkmark is not set by default.
>
> Yeah I know, just providing the way TO do it.

I figured we were talking about the clueless masses of home users, you
know the type - the ones that click where the email says "click here" to
download your security update from Micro$oft, the one with an IP in
china some place :) 

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
!