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New PVA versus used S-PVA?

Last response: in Computer Peripherals
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May 29, 2011 7:08:55 PM

Hello,

I am a freelance photographer looking for a flat panel monitor for doing my own photo and video editing. So far I have found two very options from Eizo for about the same price:

1) Used Eizo HD2441W - this is a 24 inch unit from 2007 in excellent condition with 16-bit S-PVA, video bandwidth of 202.5MHz, brighness 450 cd/m2 and HDMI signal input

2) New Eizo EV2333WH - this is a new 23 inch with PVA, video bandwidth of 148.5MHz, brightness 300 cd/m2 and no HDMI signal input.

So I would like your advice on how much difference in quality would I get from the S-PVA versus the PVA TFT-technology for viewing and editing images?

Also would appreciate any comments about the likely lifespan of either of these monitors before the colors start to go awol?

If you were me would you opt for the older (higher quality) HD2441W or the new EV2333WH?

Thanks very much for your input and advice,

Peter :pt1cable: 

More about : pva versus pva

a c 78 C Monitor
May 29, 2011 7:58:47 PM

The main difference between S-PVA and regular PVA is the response time compensation. The older S-PVA monitor you mention has somewhat better response times, but the newer monitor has 3000:1 static contrast ratio. However, the EV2333WH uses the same cPVA panel internally as the Samsung F2380, reviewed here:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/samsung_f2380.htm
Among other differences, cPVA uses 6 bits per color channel and uses temporal dithering to simulate 8 bits per color channel.

However, for photo/video editing, IPS (including its variants H-IPS, P-IPS, and to some extent e-IPS) is usually considered superior to VA panels. The LaCie 724 is probably out of your price range, but you might think about something along the lines of a Dell U2410 or HP LP2475W
May 29, 2011 9:26:15 PM

MauveCloud said:
The main difference between S-PVA and regular PVA is the response time compensation. The older S-PVA monitor you mention has somewhat better response times, but the newer monitor has 3000:1 static contrast ratio. However, the EV2333WH uses the same cPVA panel internally as the Samsung F2380, reviewed here:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/samsung_f2380.htm
Among other differences, cPVA uses 6 bits per color channel and uses temporal dithering to simulate 8 bits per color channel.

However, for photo/video editing, IPS (including its variants H-IPS, P-IPS, and to some extent e-IPS) is usually considered superior to VA panels. The LaCie 724 is probably out of your price range, but you might think about something along the lines of a Dell U2410 or HP LP2475W


Thank you VERY MUCH for this relevant & expert reply to my question that is very helpful and much appreciated. If I read you right the difference between the two options I mention seems not to be very overwhelming. So now I will look hard for an IPS solution - though am not sure why this is better than VA for photo editing so realise I have more homework to do on that too. I am more concerned about actual image quality of the monitor rather than bells and whistles, which brings me back to my question about lifespan. Would an older used high quality model like the Lacie perform better than a new standard model like the Dell or HP or do these monitors keep their condition for many years before they begin to deteriorate.

BTW the reason that I am upgrading is that I am currently using a big Dell Trinitron that I have carted with me all over the world and continue to use -- though even I am now convinced the colors are not what they used to be and this old friend needs to be retired. :sweat: 
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May 29, 2011 9:38:39 PM

hmmm... according to this listing the LaCie 724 is also S-PVA :ouch: 
a c 78 C Monitor
May 29, 2011 9:57:00 PM

Here's a link to an article that summarizes the differences between different panel types:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/panel_technologies...

After a little internet research, it seems that the main limitation to an LCD's lifespan is the backlight, so the backlighting used will make a bigger difference to that than PVA vs. IPS.
a c 78 C Monitor
May 29, 2011 10:02:58 PM

lowep said:
hmmm... according to this listing the LaCie 724 is also S-PVA :ouch: 


I must have misremembered that detail. However, it does have the advantage of an RGB LED backlight. To get both RGB LED backlight and H-IPS, you'd need something like the HP LP2480zx.
May 29, 2011 10:14:35 PM

thanks, the link gives a very clear technical explanation of the differences you pointed out - as this fireside version also does. Seems like knowing in which direction to start looking is half the battle
May 30, 2011 11:04:10 AM

After a night chasing rainbows I have found a new HP LP 2475w (H-IPS) at 50% price discount that seems to be a worthwhile risk. Have you ever come across one of these?

Plenty of Dells like the 2407 WFPbs on offer for about the same price but am concerned about persistant reports of left/right color shift in this model not to mention that it seems they mix in both s-PVA and IPS in the same model so buying one of these may be too much of a gamble.

Mind you have also come across some forum reports of minor color left/right shift in the HP LP 2475w though these have been countered by other users who say they have no color shift in their unit.

So maybe flat panels are like camera lenses - mostly the same but each with its own risk of flaws depending on the luck of which one lands on your doorstep?
a c 196 C Monitor
May 30, 2011 1:19:10 PM

Here is a review of the HP LP2475W...

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_lp2475w.htm

It is a very good monitor so as long as you do not get the pinkish tones or green to magenta color tone shifts.. If it is being sold as new, then HP should still honor the warranty on it.

Based on various user comments of this monitor, the color issue could be due to a few issues...

1. Only the those monitors manufactured in China in August '08 exhibits this issue.
2. It is a firmware issue so an upgrade would be necessary. Owners cannot upgrade monitor firmware, it must be sent back to HP to be done.
3. The issues is present on some production batches, but it will clear itself up over time.

It seems owners who has talked about #3 agree that over time the problem will correct itself, but some have stated it may take over 400 hours of usage to do so.

a c 196 C Monitor
May 30, 2011 1:41:37 PM

It is difficult to comment on the lifespan of a monitor since it can vary from owner to owner.

My 1st LCD monitor was a 19" Planar PX191 back in 2003. It was a high end S-PVA panel monitor, but was not considered a monitor for professional graphic artists. It's been used on a daily basis until November 2007 when it was replaced by my NEC LCD2690WUXi monitor. It still works today, but it is no longer in my possession. I gave it away back in 2009.

I basically replaced the PX191 because I wanted a larger monitor and it was starting to develop a bit of color bleeding at two of the corners of the monitor. Basically it has worked without issues for almost 4 year before developing the color bleeding issue I mentioned. Since I was able to buy it on sale for around $650, that works out to about an average cost of $162.50 per year of perfect or near perfect operation.

My NEC LCD2690WUXi is almost 3.5 year old at the moment and it is still working just as well a when I 1st purchased it back in November 2007. However, the NEC is on a different par than the Planar; basically twice the price.
May 30, 2011 4:18:33 PM

Thanks Jaguarskx,

After my last post I also came across the threads about color shift in the same HP. However so far do not find these types of threads about upper echelon Eizo, Nec and LaCie monitors, so maybe despite the marketing hype twice the price may mean half the risk, and, old really is old and not as good as new... or: no such thing as a free lunch?

So forget about old displays - color bleeding and back light fading always seem to happen sooner or later so probably better later with a newer display than sooner with an old one. Maybe this is why manufacturers don't give lifelong warranties but perfer 4-5 years?

Forget too about new high end systems (Eizo Coloredge, NEC, LaCie) that are out of budget range. :sweat: 

Are mid-range (S) IPS systems - Dell, HP, etc) more prone by virtue of their technology to color shift than their similarly priced (S)-PVE cousins (Eizo Flexscan)??

Is the off-angle off-color characteristic of (s)-pve compared to (s)-ips so noticable when working on a photo on a large (24") screen so noticable that you really do have to move your head as if you are a turkey all the time to avoid being bamboozled by misleading angles into thinking colors look different than they do?? (If so why do so many Graphics professionals write such saturine reviews of their Eizo flexscans - are they all blind?)

Looks like the answer is a new high end system from a few years ago waiting to be liberated from a dusty shelf... or maybe a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.
May 31, 2011 12:38:59 PM

Well an almost dusty new high end system from a few years ago waiting to be liberated from an almost dusty shelf...

I have hit the buy button on a NEC P221W after reading some very positive reviews by experienced graphic designers and photographers, even though it is a S-PVE and not IPS system. Most of the reviews state that the screen can be comfortably viewed by the user without running into problems caused by angle of view that as far as my peanut brain can grasp is one of the biggest drawbacks of PVE compared to IPS systems. Fortunately I don't have to worry about how the screen colors look to clients standing at a more extreme angle to the screen beside the monitor. :sarcastic: 

Why not IPS? After ruling out high end solutions due to price considerations, all the affordable mid-range IPS options I could find seemed bogged down in endless forum discussions about problems like color shift, bleeding, rapid ageing and other faults and flaws. The P221W is by no means immune to these issues however the positive feedback from working professionals was generally far stronger than the negative and it seems to be actually designed to work as an entry level professional graphics display rather than a home entertainment system with a few pro features thrown in to the mix like bow ties in a country pub. Anyway time will tell if I am very wrong about this and if I am at least I have the possibility after buying a new system to return it for replacement that would not be an option if I had bought a higher end used system.

Looking at the specs of the P221W there seems to be 2 main drawbacks with this system:

1) Resolution is just 1680x1050 compared to the standard serving of 1920x1080??? Am not sure how this will effect close up work on photos, though other photographers who have reviewed this system do not seem to regard it as a problem.

2) European version of the NEC P221W does not come paclaged with the Spyder 3 colorimeter and Spectra View Profiler that is standard part of the package in the USA but in Europe costs an extra 419 pounds - more than the cost of the display :ouch: 

I already have an old Panatone Colorvision Spyder and Spyder2 software but am not sure how useful this will be for calibrating the P221W and if not what alternative solutions are available, which I will now look into and post as the subject of a separate thread.

:hello: 
!