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When are they going to drop the prices on cpus? *DELETED*

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May 30, 2004 9:09:11 AM

Post deleted by Zeekfu
May 30, 2004 3:06:45 PM

Wow... this is a really long post! It sounds like you've got your thoughts pretty well in line. Your jump to Intel is gonna cost your some bucks. As for the prices comeing down, they seem to be doing that slowly over time thanks to competition between AMD and Intel... but who knows how far they will go. I sort of see the Northwoods becoming more valuable as the Prescott's are what Intel is switching over to while most prefer Northwoods. (I'm typing on a PressHot now and it's at 65 degrees under UD load!)

The Athlon XP2500's are great little chips for $80 and most will do XP3200 speed on an nForce2-Ultra 400 board. So don't give up on Athlons if $$$ is important. I just ordered one of the XP2400 mobile chips for $77 at Newegg just to see how it overclocks, and the big benefit is it's unlocked! A64's are in the same price league as the Intel chips and certainly worth it, but I'm gonna wait a while for my first A64 build.

Scout
700 Mflops in SETI!
May 30, 2004 3:42:17 PM

Buy the Abit IS7 mobo. Great mobo around $95. You don't need XP buy 2000Pro.
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May 30, 2004 3:42:58 PM

Are you going to OC your Cpu?
May 30, 2004 9:15:11 PM

Post deleted by Zeekfu
May 30, 2004 9:36:25 PM

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Zeekfu on 06/07/04 09:10 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 30, 2004 9:54:28 PM

Look, dude, quit fighting the urge! Get a 2.8C and O'C it to 3.2ghz. Leave all the AMD fanboys eating your dust! :smile:


"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!
May 30, 2004 10:00:15 PM

lol
May 30, 2004 10:13:49 PM

now it sounds like to me that you dont do anything in particular in a heavy amount, so choosiing a platform is tough. if you leaned towards gaming id say all the way go for the athlon 2800+ or 3000+. if you were going for video editing, id say p4 2.8c. but since you dont really gravitate in one direction, id say if your wanting to keep budget down id go for the ahtlon xp line, like the 2500+, and pair it witha nice video card, since there is no reason to spend money ona p4 or ahtlon 64 platform if you wont really be taking advantage of them on a daily basis.
a b à CPUs
May 31, 2004 12:51:40 AM

Duron 700 is clocked at 700MHz.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
May 31, 2004 2:51:25 AM

Buy 2000Pro. Better than XP. XP has extra eye candy that you do not need. My next upgrade will be longhorn. Thats a big if. Micro$ makes it a whole lot better than 2000Pro.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by HardwareBoss on 05/31/04 07:25 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 31, 2004 3:15:41 AM

id agree for the most part except xp is implimenting the NX bit for security which may not be huge, but its nice to have. plus if for some reason you want 64bit, youd have to choose xp.
May 31, 2004 3:54:23 AM

You had me confused with 200 pro vs 2000 pro. I was thinking pentium pro 200

I did not know what you ment.

I agree 2000 pro is the best OS for getting the job done speed etc. XP pro or not pro has a lot of bloat.

However if buying today you will get more life out of xp via updates (yes this is important). and since NX don't apply unless a64 and xp sp2 you might get a couple more years out of an xp OS.

I love win 2000 but xp pro is better if you have a fast system and dont plan on upgrading the OS anytime soon.

I am not sure if win 2000 will have updates too much longer. I'm sure somone here knows the life cycle

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
May 31, 2004 4:47:25 AM

Post deleted by Zeekfu
May 31, 2004 4:54:50 AM

Post deleted by Zeekfu
May 31, 2004 5:12:35 AM

Ps Anyone know when they are gonna drop some prices? Man I have been tracking these upgrades for months now the 2.8-3.2 intel chips have barely budged maybe falling $7-10 since February or so. The Asus p4c800-e delux has barely budged. Amd did drop prices a bit which makes them much more attractive--likewise with the asus A7N8X-e delux.

And what is up with the memory? At least the Corsair modules I was tracking went up like a b***. They seem to be leveling out now and going back down just a touch in the last couple of weeks but are still much higher than when I first started tracking them. The twin x 1024-3200 c2 with 2-3-3 timmings were $208 when I first started tracking them some months ago. These pairs of modules went up to $280 before settling back down a bit to around $259 of late. I have heard Chinese new year influences memory prices because people take serveral weeks off from work. Are these price spikes related to the production lag related to that in any way or is that only generic memory that that effects. Corsair is US made, right? Although I suppose it could effect the whole market. Chinese new year was quite some time ago though. Well at least the 9800 pros have dropped and so have the hdds but... All in all with the memory being so high this is ofset somewhat.
a b à CPUs
May 31, 2004 5:12:42 AM

Compgeeks has an SiS 748 chipset board (supports up to 400 bus) for Athlon XP's, for $35.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
May 31, 2004 5:17:52 AM

I have seen some of your posts on other threads crash and I see you are very knowledgible. Is that $35 mobo any good whatsoever?

Wow they have some cheap mobos. Assuming my 1400 and 256 stick of ddr ram is not fried I wouldn't mind getting that comp working.

They have an msi k7t turbo based on the via kt133a chipset for $19.95--I have heard of msi at least don't know much about iwill--is that chipset much better?
Lol, I need to get out more. I should buy the $20 motherboard and spend some money taking a girl out on a date instead of a comp. :p 
a b à CPUs
May 31, 2004 5:35:32 AM

It's an Iwill board, which is a budget brand but farther up from the bottom end than say, PC-Chips, Alton, Matsonic, Pine, XFX, etc. It uses the SiS 748 chipset, which is a couple notches up from comparable VIA chipsets. It has a reasonably good audio codec (Realtec ALC650), and onboard LAN. It also follows the STANDARD backpanel design of most ATX cases, so if your case doesn't have a removable backplate it will probably fit anyway.

<A HREF="http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=K7S3-N&cat=..." target="_new">Here you go</A>

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
May 31, 2004 5:45:29 AM

you only need xp pro if youll be using things like remote desktop or netowrking pcs at all, since pro handles them better out of the box. performance wise between the two is negligible.

id also say you should really consider an ahtlon 64 system if your considering a p4 one. You could get a motherbaord and processor for about 280-300 if you get the Chaintech VNF3-250 for about 100 , even around 80 at some shops. not only is it a value board, but it does alot of things higher end boards cant, such as use all three dimm slots with ram at full speed and agressive timings.

if you were doing video editing or 3d rendering id say your choice is only p4, but if you mostly use it for other things and game some, youd get a longer life out of an ahtlon 64.

that being said, if you decide you dont want to spend on an ahtlon 64 or p4 system, then the ahtlon xp is a good choice. you can get some really cheap baords, a really nice one that ive had a good experince with is the asus A7N8X-X which you can get for about 60 and it has the great nvidia audio onbaord.
May 31, 2004 6:08:19 AM

thanks crash, you da man. I was looking for a review on the mobo but couldn't seem to locate one. For some reason the sis numbers on the keyword list on Tom's run out before they get to 748 too. Thanks for summing it up. I think I may grab that board for my unused 1400 athlon and my 256 stick of 266 ddr memory. With the onboard sound and lan I will (hopefully) pretty much be set except for perhaps another cd rom drive. I'll still probably build another system but I hate waste. I may have use for an extra comp soon anyway.
thanks again buddy

ps--does compgeeks have a good reputation? (still new to the buying over the net thing)
a b à CPUs
May 31, 2004 6:14:54 AM

It's an updated version of the 745.

SiS built the 735 to be better than the VIA KT266. They built the 745 to be better than the VIA KT266A. They later added support for 400MHz bus and AGP8x for the 748.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
May 31, 2004 6:46:34 AM

Ok crash I just clicked on it. $42.70 with the $7 for ground shipping ( I guess it will arive in a week or two, lol :p ) Thanks for breaking it down for me. You should get a job as the Tom's Hardware translator for the "common folk" he he. Well enough for one night...more questions later, he he.
May 31, 2004 10:09:37 PM

Ok this is system so far:
HIS excaliber ice-q platinum 9800 pro- $239 new egg
nec 8x blk dvd+rw/-rw drive ND-2500A oem- $74.99 new egg
seagate barracuda 7200.7 200gb $134.50 zipzoomfly
corsair twinx 1024-3200c2 1gb pl $259 zipzoomfly
arctic silver 5 paste- $11.75

probably:
raidmax midtower atx case with ps-atx847wtp $45 + $15 shipping-new egg (I can take the ps out and use it in this old system-transfering this 430wt true power antec into that one.
-------wow that is $779.23 without the mobo and chip, lol---that is going to be another $150 for low end xp and cheap mobo to up to about $450 for 3.2 ghz p4 and asus p4c800-e delux--Do I need a switch to use the gigabit ethernet?
so xp pro or home??
still not sure of cpu and mobo--still leaning asus p4c800-e delux and p4 although amd athlon xp is way cheaper and someone else suggested amd 64--From my limited experience and looking at the experiences of a few of my friends the power supply and motherboard seem to me to be the components that tend to burn up/flake out/go bad quicker although I must confess I haven't been too impressed with my cd roms either.
Ps. why do people put dual optical drives in their system? I used to think it was so one could run one and copy with the other like recording a tape but I understand now that is generally not the correct way to copy a disc anyway. If one is going to save the disk to hard drive before making a copy why the "need" for a second drive?

wow this gamming "mega system" is gonna cost a bundle--Is is gonna be so fast the online games aren't gonna be any fun anymore? Everyone else is gonna be standing still like I must seem to them now on day of defeat aren't they, lol? :p 
May 31, 2004 11:34:47 PM

well xp pro does making setting up netowrking alot easier then it would be with home and it gives you esier access to security features like admin accounts and locking the system or folders from the network. for a lan machine i would say your better off with xp pro since netowrking will be easier and you dont have to worry about how many you put on there.

i like your other components fine so your on the right track no matter if you get an athlon 64 or p4. what info would you like on the athlon 64 parts to help you decide between the two? Id be happy to provide whatever you need. If you are thinking purely gaming wise, then ahtlon 64 is the best performing wise to a p4 or ahtlon xp. so it comes down to what you want, cheap or performance. of course the more you spend now, the longer it will last you. i would recommend the ahtlon 64 2800+ or 3000+ combined with a chaintech vnf3 250 , since the combo is pretty cheap. now if you want higher end features, id suggest the msi k8n neo platnium, itll cost you about 150 versus the 90-100 for the chaintech.

the differnces between the two are big, if you use the features. the msi board has an onbaord firewall, gigabit ethernet , which could help you out performance wise during your lans, firewire, and alot of space for adding more hds, up to 8 at once.

the only thing id say about your other parts is if you get a board with sata support, i storngly suggest you get a sata hd, its easier on installation for one thing. you can geta sata hd for the same price as ata part so it wont make a differnce there.

in the end though, getting a p4/athlon 64/athlon xp will all give you a big step up and youll be happy with performance of any of them.
May 31, 2004 11:47:21 PM

XP Pro if I was buying XP.
June 1, 2004 12:37:18 AM

Post deleted by Zeekfu
June 1, 2004 12:51:30 AM

thanks boss
June 1, 2004 1:26:27 AM

well one thing oyur missing out on is other sites, you need to broaden your review sites, more then just one.

here are sites taht review the msi and chaintech mobos:

msi k8n neo platnium:
<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=2036" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=2036&lt;/A>
<A HREF="http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?id=290" target="_new">http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?id=290&lt;/A>
<A HREF="http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=826&s=1" target="_new">http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=826&s=1&lt;/A>
<A HREF="http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3J..." target="_new">http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3J...;/A>

Chaintech:

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.html?i=22143" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.html?i=22143&lt;/A>
<A HREF="http://www.tweakzone.nl/extreviews/2413" target="_new">http://www.tweakzone.nl/extreviews/2413&lt;/A>


ok in regards to memory timings. dont worry so much about the numbers if your going for an ahtlon 64 setup. there is a difference between p4 and ahtlon 64 when it comes to memory timings. ahtlons dont need lower timings as much. just get good branded and relatively good timings and youll be fine. the corsair chips you chose are fine, there really is no reason to pay alot extra for better timings unless your going to overclock becuase those extra timings might net you 1-5fps in games, almost nothing, its just not worth it in my opinion. Also, if oyu wont be overclocking, just get the stock heatsink fan that comes in the retail box, no use buying anyhting extra. the ahtlon 64 3000+ boxed is right at the same price as the p4 3.0ghz so you arent sacrificing anything in that regard.

also about the hd, you can get a Western Digital 200gb SATA drive for at or less then 130 so there are plenty of options to get sata and it would be just as good as the seagate you quoted.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by trooper11 on 05/31/04 09:30 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 1, 2004 1:42:57 AM

One thing you wrote kind of bothers me a little. You wrote "athlon 64 3200 does generally come out ahead of the 2.8 p4." The truth is, that for gaming, an A64 2800+ would be on par with the P4 3.2. The A64s are much better for gaming. It is true that the P4 is faster in progs that are optimized for it ( some encoding progs, and anything set up for hyper threading), but in terms of processing power, the A64 is stronger.
June 1, 2004 2:47:00 AM

Post deleted by Zeekfu
June 1, 2004 2:59:50 PM

Hey, you guys pulled a fast one on me, lol. You got me going with all this high talk about the athlon 64 and that snazzy msi k8n neo platinum mobo and that "jewel" isn't even out yet. I keep reading how great it is but it isn't even in production. I could wait a bit that is not a problem. But if it is an "untested" (by everyday use) platform it sounds just a bit dubious to me. I like mature platforms that already have their little quirks and glitches well documented, he he. I have just about done a 180 in three days and was leaning towards athlon 64 2800-3200 instead of p4 2.8-3.2 but this throws another wrinkle in the equation. the nforce3 250 gb chipset seems the way to go. So where the heck is it? About to lose an almost convinced customer here msi and amd. :p 

I have been neurotically obsessing over this stuff and tracking prices for months now, time to poop or scoot on it, he he.
June 1, 2004 5:45:26 PM

ok you can preorder it now here:

<A HREF="http://www.compuhq.com/msiddsaraso7.html" target="_new">http://www.compuhq.com/msiddsaraso7.html&lt;/A>

i could have sworn you could buy it now from a couple places. if you want more reviews on the ahtlon 2800+ and 3000+, look here:

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2038" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2038&lt;/A>
<A HREF="http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=a642800&..." target="_new">http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=a642800&...;/A>
<A HREF="http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/athlon64.h..." target="_new">http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/athlon64.h...;/A>

now you dont have to use the vforce 3 250gb chipset, you could just use a 1 generation chipset. in that case id suggest you go for the Asus K8V Deluxe, it is one of the better baords out right now. It may not have the features of the 250GB chipset, but its still a solid performer. you can look here for reviews:

<A HREF="http://www.amdmb.com/article-display.php?ArticleID=265" target="_new">http://www.amdmb.com/article-display.php?ArticleID=265&...;/A>
<A HREF="http://www.motherboards.org/articlesd/motherboard-revie..." target="_new">http://www.motherboards.org/articlesd/motherboard-revie...;/A>


if it were me, id preorder the msi board and just wait for it, its not going to be more then a couple weeks till youll get it at most and it has amny things id prefer to get. but if you cant wait, the asus board is a good alternative.
June 1, 2004 8:13:19 PM

So now, after having sassed off a bit in earlier post(s), I've got a question. Should I try my hand at overclocking? I read the 2.8 p4 was a good canidate for ocing to 3.2 range. What about the athlon 64? Is it worth it? If so how do the higher clocked memory modules fit into the equation? I believe without ocing I want 3200 or 3500 tops right? What would I use for ocing? What if I were unsure about it? I think the 3200 is max currently supported by mobo makers warranty but 3500 is still ok? Beyond that does one have to be ocing to use it or is is just overkill if not ocing? Can 3700 (etc.) memory be used w/o ocing? I notice that as the clock speeds go up the memory timmings seem to as well on comperable dimms. I guess it is simply not effecient to use oc'd memory w/o ocing it. (I took a look at those ddr 2 modules corsair is now advertising and man are those timmings high-I guess the whole process being sped up a single clock cycle becomes much smaller? Is that the correct way of understanding it?) Is there any such thing as a relatively safe, tried and try oc that will net tangible results or is it more like climbing a mountain? For me I would say if it is going to cut down on component life at all it is probably not worth it since I tend to run the comps I build for all they are worth. I would probably not even have been all focused on upgrading if the 1400 system hadn't fried. Although on the flip side from my limited experience and seeing the experiences of some close friends the chips seem to outlast the mobos anyway. Would ocing shorten the life of the mobo as well?

If I get a wild hair and decide to try my hand at it, what fans/heatsinks are being currently recommended as effecient, reliable, tried and true and relatively quiet for athlon 64/athlon xp/p4 based systems? Also, I do occasionly move my comp so I don't want something that is gonna be so heavy it cracks my mobo either.
Ps. One doesn't need registered memory for the athlon 64, correct? From what I have seen the same c2 modules I picked out for the p4/amd xp platforms would work, correct? It looks that way from the corsair site. I was looking at the description of what mobo the modules were tested on the zipzoomfly site and they seem to be amd xp and p4 platforms for those c2 modules.
Ps. I have heard it is good to have a gig of memory with xp. My last system only had 256 and this one only has 128 (but that is probably why I lag out so much on line gamming on this comp) Is 1gb overkill? Why do some people get even more than that? I am confused about the memory timmings a bit. From what I have seen most timming seem to go down when four modules are used but Tom's memory timmings article with the (now apparenlty unavailable) corsair 3500 used 4 dimms on the p4 setup saying that was the best way to get good timmings. In a previous article another author stated that generally the less modules the faster. I understand that for the higher end, ddr systems I want to use two rather than one for the ddr to bost performance. A further confusion I have run across is that the newly published article on the new amd socket label the 754 sockets as single channel ddr. Would one big dim work as well as two paired dimms for the athlon 64? I think not but I do find it a bit perplexing. I guess dual ddr is the same as the p4 quad thing, correct?
June 1, 2004 9:35:12 PM

well in all that you basiclaly said what is the ahtlon 64 in terms of overclocking. well the ahtlon 64 can overclcok fairly well. dont expect to get 600-800mhz or more like oyu would with a p4, but you have to remember 100mhz for the p4 isnt the same as 100mhz for an ahtlon 64. My point is p4's would give you less of a performance boost in most things compared to an additional 100mhz for an ahtlon 64.

If you should or not is up to you, yes its risky to overclock anything, and you would defintiely need better cooling then the stock cooling. depending on how much you want to spend on the cooler will be how much of an overclock you can do. Do you want to air cool, water cool... etc.

As far as ram goes, for the ahtlon 64 platform, id aim to get OCZ PC-3700 EB dimms in a 1gb twin pack. People are seieng good numbers using those dimms to overclock with. You can see an article about these dimms here:

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=2057" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=2057&lt;/A>

ok getitng into single channle versus dual channel could take alot of time, lets just say basically, that the current ahtlon 64 systems run on single channel and therefore you get no boost from using multiple dimms like you would with dual channel. So yes, getting fewere\ dimms would be fine, but the thing you find is getting like a 1gb dimm with good timings is not easy or cheap, while you can get 2 512 dimms with good timings from many sources, so just get a twin pack , like the ocz pc3700 i mentioned.

if you dont decide to oc, dont get anyhting over pc-3200, it would just be a waist.

really, if i was you, i wouldnt oc right now, just buy parts as if you werent, then later on you can add the parts to do some ocing, like the cooling and ram.
June 2, 2004 3:34:51 AM

ok trooper, lol you have just about sold me on the athlon 64 with your replies and links to other review sites. When is that danged mobo comming out, lol?
I don't know much about that brand but I seem to be seeing alot about it of late.
June 2, 2004 3:40:43 AM

You guys are talking me into the athlon 64, lol. I looked over some other sites and it does seem to be comming out a little better on other site(s) than it appeared on Tom's Hardware's "end of the year cpu roundup". I keep seeing alot about that msi k8n neo platinum board. I put my email on the auto notification list. Maybe some of these prices will drop down while I am waiting for it. That is if I don't get impatient and go p4 2.8 in the interim. Thanks again for the advice. I have learned alot from posting on this site. This is a good community here.
June 2, 2004 3:49:46 AM

ok sure thing, youll be very happy with the msi board if you can wait for it, which shouldnt be too long. and if you do overclock, youll have a great mobo to try it on.
June 2, 2004 8:14:35 AM

Ok so now I am looking at the athlon 64 mobos-leaning towards the athlon 3200 (which is actually a jump in $ because I was leaning towards the 2.8 with the p4 platform) I see the chaintech znf3-250 pro zenith which is a higher end chaintech than the one you mentioned earlier. I does have the gigabit lan but not the hardware firewall. What makes the msi k8n neo platinum such a desirable and talked about board? Is it mostly the bells and whistles? I am mindful of the fact that many mobos have features which I probably don't know how to properly utilize at this time. I don't know alot about chaintech or msi as my two previous builds have been abit. They have performed reliably and held up great-besides the power source fry which I assume is the fault of the generic ps not the mobo. Furthermore, have been reading alot about asus and was planning to use an asus mobo on my next build. That being said, I am interested in reliability, durability, simplicity and ease of use, good customer support (easily updatible drivers and so forth) and the like. Admittedly, the higher end boards are probably the best all around but if I can get the same board minus bells and whistles I don't need or probably won't use that is fine too.
-I probably won't be setting up another raid. My old comp that fried does have a striped raid array. The drives are of the older 5400 rpm type though. As a novice I didn't really have anything to compare raid to but I had suspetions in the past that it caused some performance glitches from time to time. At any rate unless I hear some super great reason to I doubt I will use raid on this build. So raid could be elimated from the board I suppose.
It is a matter of economics too. I really don't need to buy a second hard drive.
-As far as serial ata goes. I hear that is nice but the hard drive I think I am going to buy doesn't have sata. I have used wd on previous builds but I think I am going to go with the seagate barracuda 7200.7 drive this time around. Although the 200 gb apparently does not come in sata (at least I have't run across it yet) it is my impression it outperforms the previous generation hd that utilized sata. Granted those tiny cables look like they would greatly reduce the cluter in a case. However if the 200 gb hd gives quieter, cooler and faster performance than the 160 sata I think I will go with the newer one. I checked the customer ratings on new egg and that drive gets top notch feedback. The feedback on new egg for the seagate barracuda 7200.7 200gb appeared to me to be better all around than others I looked at including the wd raptors (both 36 and 74) and the 160gb ata version of the seagate.
Now if I am mistaken on the performance issue please correct me. The 200gb is beyond overkill as far as space goes so if the 160 gb sata version (or a lower model) is better I would gladly go with that. I do think I want to give seagate a shot though. I have previously only used wd as I had heard they were the best.
-The hardware firewall does sound cool. Is that the primary additional feature that the msi k8n neo platinum has to offer?
-This is going to sound like a dumb question I know, but (what the hey I'll ask it anyway) which boards support the amd cool and quiet?
-Basically, is it worth waiting on that board or is there a version or other manufacturers board that is basically the same performance, reliabilty, durability etc. without all the bells and whistles? There are so many mobos out there. I find the model numbers within a certain brand confusing and frustrating. I suppose that is the point so people go out and buy a cheaper board in a case of mistaken identity? That chaintech znf3-250 pro board looked like it had some cool features on it. Some kind of passive cooling device on the mobo and some kind of a card reader comes with it too I think (although the pic doesn't show it.) As I stated in a previous post it seems to me from my limited experience and the observed experiences of my friends that next to the power source the motherboard seems to be one of the parts that tends to go. If cpus outlast the motherboard why are all these features of future expandibility on the mobo so important? Again this is only my limited experience so my assupmtion may be totally incorrect.

The thought of spending $180-$280 on a cpu is "gnawing" on my brain a bit. I shudder to think that somewhere I bet some techy has the cpu I want tossed over in a corner gathering dust when the newer one came out, lol.
June 2, 2004 3:42:20 PM

well first of all that higher end chaintech baord will cost you more then the msi board, so unless your wanting to spend more, id stick with the msi board.

if you want a break down of features, i suggest you read the spec pages for each one:

<A HREF="http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8N..." target="_new">http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8N...;/A>

<A HREF="http://www.chaintech.com.tw/tw/eng/product_spec.asp?MPS..." target="_new">http://www.chaintech.com.tw/tw/eng/product_spec.asp?MPS...;/A>


check those out and see for yourself. one of the differences between the two is that the chaintech model does not use the Nforce 3 250GB chipset, it uses the non GB versions. Ok so what does that mean... well it means you dont get integrated gigabit ethernet, built in firewall, ability to mix sata and ata drives in one raid array. The gigabit ethere using onaboard by the chaintech model doesnt perform as wlel as the nivida part in the GB version. the other parts you decide for yourself if you want them or not.

as far as the chaintech board goes, do you really need a media card reader? if youll use it then maybe you want it, but if not then its just as useless as getting the msi board and not using the mixed raid option. here is a review of the chaintech board:

<A HREF="http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/chipsets/display/nforc..." target="_new">http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/chipsets/display/nforc...;/A>


to me, the chaintech board adds alot of glitz and addons, but it wouldnt be worth the extra price. the cooling on it is pretty much for show and unless you were overclcoking quite a bit it would be useless, even when your overclocking, its not known if that helps much.

as far as hard drives go, i dont knwo where you heard that the seagate drive outperformed a 10k rpm raptor drive, but that would not be correct. If you had the option, go for the raptors, but anyway, if you wanta relaibe drive, then id suggest the hitachi line, specifically the Hitachi 160Gb sata hd. One of the good things besides its overall performance is the fact taht you get a 3 year warranty with it, not something you get at that level for other drives. Although raptors come with a 5 year warranty. If you just must have your segate ata drive go ahead, im just saying its a good time to go to sata.

your question about reliability is not just about any one component, but all of them together. from the ram to the power supply, all have to be considered. youll get a bad motherbaord every once ian while, some are better then others but now adays most are fine.
June 2, 2004 4:36:10 PM

Ok cool. Thanks for more helpful info. So that gigabite lan on the chaintech board is not set up as efficiently? I remember seeing the Tom's comments on the msi board they said something about how good that solution was now that you mention it.
One thing though, I didn't say the seagate outperformed the raptor as far as speed. I have seen the reviews and know better. What I stated was that it got excellent customer reviews on new egg. The ratings for the raptors seemed to me to have a lot of return issues as well as people commenting about heat and noise. These were of course mixed in with rave reviews about the speed. The reviews in that seagate seemed overall better. I guess the confussion may have arrisen when I switched back to talking about the perfomance difference (speedwise) between the 200 gb ata 100 model and the 160 gb sata. It is my understanding that the newer generation 200 gb model is faster even though it isn't serial ata. Am I correct on this?
Yea, hitachi is a good brand. My sister and I bought my mom a hitachi tv several years ago based on consumer reviews. It has been a great tv. I have a hitachi vcr too. I haven't really looked much into the hitachi hd though. I see the seagate runs cool and quiet and also gets good reviews. From first glance and reviews they also seem to really hold up. I thought I would give em a shot.
So the question after all this long windedness is..is my impression correct that the newer 200 gb ata 100 version of the 7200.7 seagate barracuda outperform the sata 160, 120 and lower versions? If so what would be the advantage of sata (except that the smaller cables would look cooler and get in the way of airflow a whole lot less).


*Ok I just glanced over that chaintech review. That is a helpful link. I am going to flip back over and read some more. I see alot about that msi board. My assumption is that msi is good, reliable company then? I just want to make sure I am not buying into a bunch of ocing hype in focusing on that board. I want it to hold up well and so forth. So chaintech and msi are comperable brands but the chaintechs run a bit higher in your opinion then? I like that neat little cooling feature on the chaintech but the better lan solution on the msi is probably worth waiting for. That msi lan solution is a more efficient use of resources and thus less of a drag on the system overall, correct?
What is the hardware firewall, exactly? Does that eliminate the need for a software firewall or is it just added security?
Yea you are right about the card reader, he he. I would't know what to do with it. Although I suppose if it came with a mobo for free I would check into it a bit more.
June 2, 2004 7:43:32 PM

well regarding your hd question your right about that half way. the 36gb raptor drive indeed are particularly hot and noisy compared to regular 7200rpm sata drives. but the 74gb version is not just a size upgrade but better built drive, using fluid barrings to reduce noise and heat. if oyu want the cream of the crop sata drive with 7200rpm then the hitachi is the way to go. the 250gb version holds the top spot , certainly over any competition. but ok, here are more benchmarks to back that up:

<A HREF="http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200310/20031007HD..." target="_new">http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200310/20031007HD...;/A>

the model number covers all sizes from 160-250 so the numbers will be the same for any of those numbers.


the lan onbaord the msi baord is better becuase its part of the northbridge, not a seperate chip on the board. so not only does it perform better, but it also requires less cpu load to do so. as far as the firewall is concerned, its is a full fledged firewall so it wont be needed to use any software version on top of it. plus, whne you get xp service pack 2, youll get access to another security feature called NX thatt only athlon 64 supports right now. It is suppose to help against viri attacks known as buffer overflow. its not a big point, but for me anyway, its something i like to have.

reliability wise, of course thats hard to say on a new board, but msi has a good track record and i dont see you having any problems, unless you get the odd bad board that you can get from any maker.
June 4, 2004 5:59:29 AM

Well, I had ruled out the raptor but I did some more reading and thought about it some more. I don't think it is a loud as I was thinking it was going to be. I have gotten used to a quiet system though since my old generic power source blew (x2) and I bought this antec 430 true power ps.
By the time I had decieded I might like it after all I was a bit ticked though because the rebate ended. I was checking back over it and it appears that new egg extended the rebate till June 5th. I think I am going to pick up one. There is a $20 rebate on one $50 on two rebate. I guess they are trying to entice people into making a raid array. Raid 0 doesn't do much for gamming anyway, does it?

I think I may grab one during the extended rebate period though. That will be plenty of space for me and it isn't all that much more than the drive i was looking at. Is it worth an extra $50 to go sata and 10,000 rpm you think?
June 4, 2004 7:40:37 AM

if its only 50 bucks, then yeah id say its worth it fro the 10k rpm raptor.
June 5, 2004 12:40:57 AM

Zeek, are you writtin' a book or what. Give it a rest, why don't ya?
good grief its like War and Peace in here.
June 5, 2004 12:42:25 AM

Ok, ok sorry. /sniff
June 5, 2004 5:59:15 AM

The MSI is a new board built around the nForce3 250 chip with all of it's features.
Supports cool&quiet and uses their D.O.T. which is based on Temp. to dynamicly OC. Has 4 SATA ports that use the nforce3 250 chip.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Chaintech board has gigabit Lan but not from the nforce3 250 chipset. I think it's a realtek. It doesn't support cool&quiet and it is based on the older PCB design from their nForce3 150 boards I belive. The SATA controller is from a different chip as well. And no onboard firewire.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by piccoro on 06/05/04 02:06 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 5, 2004 7:53:58 AM

it is not based on the nforce 150, its the nforce 3 250, just not the GB version, Your right it doesnt have the onbaord lan, firewall, or firewire. But it does have firewire, and lan. Again remember its a value board, what do you expect? But the upside is its an excellent overclocker for the money and you get decent features that make it a worthy entry level board. I mean I think 85 bucks for that board is a pretty good deal.
June 5, 2004 9:39:03 AM

Now I am confused I think we merged conversations about two or possibly even 3 different model number boards. Why do they make these danged number so simular???
(chaintech znf3-150 zenieth $158-just to further confuse things-this is the earlier 3-150 chipset) But I think what he was saying actually was the design (layout)of the newer chaintech 3-250 board(s) itself was based on the layout of the 3-150 boards and thus (I think it is something like there is no physical room to route something through the chip exactly so or something because of that....I seem to recall something vaguely from one of the other review sites) Basically, by not redesigning where everything "parks" on the board they saved a lil bit o dough but also made it so somethin on the 2nd generation chipset couldn't work as effeciently. (or I could have just made the whole thing up--I am tired)
chaintech vnf3-250 $92 no gibabite lan
chaintech znf3-250 $165 has gigabite lan but it is not the (3-250)gb version integrated through the northbridge..also not the hardware firewall. Everyone is hyping that new msi board but I think that chaintech board with the space age coolin' thingy and the bag o goodies is da 'catz pajamas", lol. I know it is $15 more and doesn't overclock as well, and I know it doesn't have a silly ole hardware firewall, and I know it don't have that uber duber nnnnnnnvidia giga lan integrated into their precious super dupper northbridge chip like they good gb chip kids do, and I know it doesn't support cool and quiet so it must be all loud an rowdy, and I don't even know what a card reader does (I assume it reads cards-but hey I can do that without a computer..jack o diamonds, ace o spades, etc. etc.) But I sho du likes dat shiny heat reducin' thinger magiger. I saw a thermal photograph on one of the review sites too--it made alot of red angry stuff get all blue and happy and relaxed. :p 
Me hulk, me smash--it's late I gotta crash.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Zeekfu on 06/05/04 05:57 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 5, 2004 4:55:24 PM

The MSI Platinum board is now available all over. Go buy one and STFU! :tongue:


"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!
!