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AMD XP Mobile 2500+ oc'd vs. P4 2.8C.

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June 9, 2004 2:48:19 AM

I am finally, at last, upgrading my P3 1Ghz. :) 

Max Budget: ~600 USD

I've been doing my fair share of research on what to buy, and I'm fairly convinced, considering what we expect to happen in the next year or so, that a P4 2.8C is my best "bang for buck" option right now.

The reason it seems to win out over the A64 is that it has better all-around performance (I don't just use my computer for 1st person shooters), and it is actually cheaper. It also has dual-channel memory, whereas I understand that the A64 does not.

But then I hear about this AMD XP Mobile 2500+ which overclocks quite nicely. Now, I'm not an experienced overclocker but I don't think I'd have any trouble doing it. I've done some overclocking before and have a lot of resources available.

The XP Mobile works out a little cheaper than the P4 2.8C system too. Even though when all is said and done, even overclocked it will not always be as fast as the 2.8C, I do save some money. This could be important since I intend another upgrade in about a year.

With all that in mind, and considering that no matter what I buy I'll need a new Motherboard and new RAM, what do you more experienced and helpful hardware enthusiasts recommend for me?

Some things to keep in mind:

I don't know what kind of RAM to get. RAM has changed so much since I last looked at it, and the variety and price spreads are enormous now.

I plan on using the Zalman ALCU cooling unit. The affordable water coolers aren't any better (in fact they are worse) than the Zalman, and the better water cooling kits seem very expensive.

Thanks so much. This is my last stop on my upgrading journey.

More about : amd mobile 2500

June 9, 2004 4:48:54 AM

A64 has integrated memory controller, it outperforms the P4 in Games, however P4 dominates multimedia, well not really anymore with the release of socket939.

Here is the question, what do you plan to do with this sytem?

<A HREF="http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/myrig.php?do=view..." target="_new">My PC</A>
June 9, 2004 7:12:21 AM

Thanks for your help.

I plan to play games, watch movies etc. and also make music videos/edit home video.

Part of the reason I'm not crazy about A64 is that it costs more than the Pentium, and I know I'm going to have to upgrade in a year or so anyhow.

I definitely am not interested in socket 939. The prices are too steep relative the lifespan of the platform.

Adam
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June 9, 2004 7:13:46 AM

Considering your low budget, you'll probably want to go with that mobile XP2500+ and a nice Socket 462 board such as the Abit NF7-S. Add 512MB of PC3200 and a 9800 Pro 128MB, you're still under budget.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
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June 9, 2004 7:17:13 AM

Oh, BTW, you could save even more by starting out single channel. Dual channel provides only miniscule performance gains, and starting out with a single 512MB module will make it a bit easier to upgrade later with a second 512MB module.

Heck, if you do that, you'll have enough left for a new hard drive!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
June 9, 2004 8:14:07 AM

Crashman,

Thanks for your help. What sort of ram do I need if I want to maximize my overclocking of the Mobile 2500?

I have a 9700 Non-Pro already that does nicely, so I don't need to upgrade the video card. I'll probably spend that cash on a new hd.
a b à CPUs
June 9, 2004 9:25:26 AM

PC3200 will do, first because XP3200+ speed comes at 2200MHz (200x11), and second because your multiplier is unlocked (so you could even do 200x12=2400MHz, possibly). PC3500 would be a little better, PC3700 better still. I suggest you consider your budget and pick the best memory you're willing to pay for.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
June 9, 2004 8:17:09 PM

Don't get your hopes up about having the multiplier unlocked. AMD has been locking the XP's since end of last year. Most likely your Barton is going to be locked. But, to get to 3200+ speed, just change FSB from 166 to 200, and you are in luck. Also, with a good board, and some DDR 3500 memory, and heatsink: maybe 220*11=2420 Mhz. GOod luck.
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June 9, 2004 8:39:07 PM

Nope. Mobile XP's are unlocked to this day. They are unlocked for a reason, that reason being that various boards can slow them down by various amounts to increase battery life. The mobile XP2500+ isn't even rated at 11x166.6, it's rated at 14x133.3 as I recall.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
June 9, 2004 10:43:16 PM

Right you are! The XP Mobile is rated as a 266mhz processor.

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!
June 9, 2004 10:45:20 PM

Sorry. I was thinking a regular 2500+ instead of a 2500+ Mobile. Oops.
June 9, 2004 10:49:23 PM

Thats why you cheat and get the mobile barton. Plus they can take more heat than the desktop chips.

Mobile Barton 2500+ @ 2420mhz 11x220 1.7v
Asus A7N8X Dlx 440 FSB
1gb Geil GD pc3500 Dual Channel (2-3-3-6)
Segata 80gb SATA 8.5ms seek
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro to XT(420/730)
June 9, 2004 11:44:50 PM

If you get a chance, take a look here http://www.canadacomputers.com/memory.html (one page list)

and let me know which category of ram on there I should be looking at.

There are quite a few versions of PC3200 I guess. I'm not sure whether one needs the expensive Corsair memory to overclock properly. I've heard the ram can be a bottleneck, and I don't want to end up facing that problem. I'm not even sure what the OCZ stuff is all about.

Yours Cluelessly,

Adam :) 
June 10, 2004 1:54:43 AM

Overclocking a 200 mhz fsb is very taxing on the voltage regulators, and north bridge. You should be able to outperform all but the most overclocked 2.8 P4c, just by using a 12 X 200 with the mobile barton. I am using elcheepo ram (samsung). It works ok at 11.5 X 210, but the system temp goes up by 5c. The really nice thing is that the modules are not matched pairs, were bought several weeks apart, and were about $50can each. (256MB)
I have tried the kingston matched pairs LL stuff, but the framerate dif in aquamark and mad onion was negligable.
June 10, 2004 1:58:41 AM

Nice try but no cigar. My P4 EATS XP's for breakfast! Munch, munch! :smile:


"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!
June 10, 2004 4:43:33 AM

I was in your EXACT same predicament a few weeks ago. I researches and went with an AMD based Mobile Athlon system.

I couldnt be happier right now.

I have never overclocked a system before this and look at my results.

Keep in mind my components that are cooling related are as follows:

Thermalright ALX800 heatsink - 20$ ( HIGHLY RECOMENDED )
Ceremique Thermal Compound - around 5$ ( Works Fine )
Thermaltake Smart Fan found here: <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti..." target="_new">http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...;/A>

Fan is highly highly highly recomended. It comes with a PCI slot FAN rpm switch for when extra cooling is needed. It lights up bright blue. It blows ALOT of air. all for around 11$

Well all this on an ABIT NF7-S.

I am at 2640 MHZ ( 220 FSB X 12.0 Mutliplier )
44C Idle 50C Load. 1.7V Im sure this chip wouldnt have a problem at 60C. I have a 9700 , same as you. Mine is a pro, yes. I am getting 3d Mark2001 scores around 18500.

Added up cpu,fan,compound,heatsink costs me: $125.

Now please tell me a P4 2.8 will even touch this.

Best price I could find a a 2.8 for: $171 @ www.newegg.com

Bottom Line: GO FOR MOBILE 2500! :) 
June 10, 2004 4:50:02 AM

I just remembered this.

PC 3200 gives you plenty of overclocking headroom with the Mobile 2500. Stock it runs with a 133 FSB. The intel runs stock with a 200 FSB.

What this means: You have to spend alot more on the 2.8 if you want to overclock it.

newegg has good mushkin CAS2.5 3200 512 sticks for around 87$

Bottom Line--What you need: NON-ECC 184 PIN DDR PC 3200 512 MB module. A single stick of 512 is the most economic way to go.
June 10, 2004 4:59:25 AM

A 2.8C clocked at 3.208 with Mushkin PC-4000 and a 9800 Pro will more than touch this. Think I have any headroom left running at only a 229 FSB? All this on a stock/lapped p4 3.2 copper-core heatsink at 36C idle - 50C load. But enough of this FAN-BOY crap. I like the NF7-S/XP combo just fine having built one recently. The stock heatsink SUCKS bigtime though! A clocked up A64 on a Nforce3-250 chipset will pound both of us anyway! (My next project) :smile:


"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!
June 10, 2004 5:12:18 AM

Panther, what do I need by way of PSU?

Looks like I'll have a system soon if it's this simple. I thought I'd have to pour over ram comparisons and heat-sink comparisons. :) 

I think I'll still pay the extra cash for the Zalman unit, since it is supposed to be the best aircooler out there and I can use it for my next upgrade.
June 10, 2004 5:14:13 AM

Haha man your right. But i only think of myself as a money-fanboy :)  . Yeah I WAS going to go A64 but they arent looking good in the OC department ( right now ). Maybe 90nm will help this out?

But to clear what i meant up, I was saying a stock NON-oced 2.8 wouldnt touch an athlon at 2.6. Reason for me saying that is that its relevance was directed towards the poster who's num 1 concern is money ofcourse. Yeah your 3.2 with a 9800 would probably beat me in alot of apps, i dont think this guy wants to buy that nice mushkin ram you have.

But hey, we both use mushkin!
June 10, 2004 5:20:54 AM

Well I am doing fine with a generic 400Watt supply that came with my cheapo case. It should suit both of us fine. Us being non X800 and non 6800 users :) 

But if you want the BEST aircooling then you still want to look at thermal right. Nothing beats the Thermalright SP-97. Period.

Here is a rather extensive listing of AMD Socket A Heatsinks and their respective cooling scores, i STRONGLY recomend you check this out! :

( and yes the Thermalright SLK 900 barely outdoes the SP97, i still believe the SP97 is better )

<A HREF="http://www.overclockers.com/articles373/socketA.asp" target="_new">http://www.overclockers.com/articles373/socketA.asp&lt;/A>

PS. What model Zalman do you want to get?
June 10, 2004 5:34:02 AM

Panther, you're being extremely helpful -- I really appreciate this! :) 

As far as purchasing goes, I'm limited because newegg.com doesn't ship to Canada. I am pretty much stuck with what is offered at www.canadacomputers.com unless you know of an online shop that will ship to Canada.

Here is what they have at my shop: <A HREF="http://www.canadacomputers.com/cpus.html#acc" target="_new">http://www.canadacomputers.com/cpus.html#acc&lt;/A>

http://www.canadacomputers.com/cpus.html#acc

cases:

http://www.canadacomputers.com/cases.html#cas

ram:

http://www.canadacomputers.com/memory.html

Feel free to pick anything off those pages and build a system for me. I'll do whatever you say :D 
June 10, 2004 6:44:43 AM

I found a few more sites that ships to canada.
<A HREF="http://www.xoxide.com" target="_new">http://www.xoxide.com&lt;/A>

For cases they have an absolutely HUGE selection:

<A HREF="http://www.xoxide.com/allcases.html" target="_new">http://www.xoxide.com/allcases.html&lt;/A>

I discovered the difference between the two Zalman heatsinks on the site that you showed me.

The more expensive of the two is all-copper and is much more suitable for you.

But it is listed in the 60's on that site, I found it for US 38$ on www.tcwo.com

<A HREF="http://www.tcwo.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_pro..." target="_new">http://www.tcwo.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_pro...;/A>

Now this is the last thing I highly recommend to you my friend. The Abit NF7-s is THE best overclocking motherboard for ANY AthlonXP. The -S means VERY good audio processing built into the board.

I found a site that ships to canada and has it for a very good price. Here:
<A HREF="http://www.spacecentersystems.com/catalog/product_info...." target="_new">http://www.spacecentersystems.com/catalog/product_info....;/A>

Now for memory. Kingston makes reliable, good priced ram.
The same site that has that motherboard I mentioned just above also has this memory.

<A HREF="http://www.spacecentersystems.com/catalog/product_info...." target="_new">http://www.spacecentersystems.com/catalog/product_info....;/A>




Ofcourse that is nowhere near a complete system and you know that. But those are the components you had questions about. The only problem I encountered was that I couldn't find a site that would ship a XP-M 2500 to canada. That is your task and good luck!

Please note, the site you mention has very bad prices if those are in US currency. But if they are in the Canadian currency then they are average prices.


Have fun and good luck with this system!
June 10, 2004 8:43:57 PM

I've had bad OCZ, bad Kingston, but so far no bad Mushkin! Even off of E-Bay! If anything, I'm becoming a Mushkin FAN-BOY! :lol: 

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!
!