Which would you pick?

the second one.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

Yup, just the extra ram says so.

You can get a free copy of the game far cry if you buy the mobo/cpu combo from zipzoomfly. new egg has the far cry offer too but doesn't offer that board. mwave has a similar offer and has a killer deal on the chaintech vnf3 250 board/cpu/free game combo--board is only $69.

You might want to check out this 9800pro:
<A HREF="http://www.hisdigital.com/html/index.html" target="_new">HIS Intro page</A>
<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?descripti..." target="_new">here</A>
<A HREF="http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?Product..." target="_new">here</A>

In the Tom's article which gave it the editor's choice <A HREF="http://www6.tomshardware.com/firstlook/20031210/radeon_..." target="_new">here</A>
the ice q platinum model performed a bit better than the reference model that is comparable in price.

They now make the fan controller bracket (hot air exhaust and fan high low control) separate to alleviate the problem of getting the switch to clear when installing in some case/mobo combinations. This now-solved problem was noted on the digit-life review <A HREF="http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/radeon/his-1.html" target="_new">here</A> . The ramsinks are also now different, better looking, and better. They are larger heatsinks which bridge two ram chips rather than single individual ones.
I saw the editor's choice award article some months back and researched them more. I also saw the excellent faq guide <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam..." target="_new">here</A> and found that extremely helpful.
<A HREF="http://www.hisdigital.com/html/profile.htm" target="_new">HIS</A>

alps floppy user reviews looks sketchy--I got the sony one for cheaper--read down the user reviews and check out the review by "jonmills"--I saw that comment and laughed so hard it was worth the $10.
<A HREF="http://secure.newegg.com/app/CustratingReview.asp?DEPA=..." target="_new">http://secure.newegg.com/app/CustratingReview.asp?DEPA=...;/A>

Also, you might want to ask one of those other guys if that $21 sb card you have on your list is going to be any better/as good as the on board audio on the mobo--if not you can save $20 on that.


Also, why do people put two optical drives on their comps? A long time ago I thought it was to "play" on one and "record" on the other like a tape, lol. I understand that that is not a good way to burn a cd though. Then I thought it was to save the more expensive dvd rw. But since the dvd rw are cheaper now and the nice nec one you have on your list is only $72 why do you need the other one? Is there a reason for this or is it just like an old habit? Please explain this phenomena to me.

Asking an honest question here, not being a smarta** by the way. :>)

definately the second one. Just dump the soundblaster card, and either use the onboard audio, or buy a decent (non creative labs) soundcard.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

Go for the second one with few alternate options.

- LiteOn SOHW-812S DVD burner and XJ-HD166S DVD-ROM instead of NEC DVD burner and DVD-ROM
- No need for Creative Soundblaster PCI-128 sound card, use onboard audio
- Powercolor isn't a very good choice for graphics card. Buy other R9800 Pro (BBA, Sapphire for example)

------------
<A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86" target="_new">My Website</A>

<A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86/myrig.html" target="_new">My Rig</A> & <A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86/benchmark.html" target="_new">3DMark score</A>

That nec gets good user reviews. I haven't seen any other reviews on it. I got one the other day. So far it is slick as glass.

*why two optical drives? can someone please explain that to me?*

I know that in my case I got two optical drives because compared to my burner my reader has a faster seek time, a faster transfer speed, better error correction, and is noticably quieter. Plus I like redundancy in case of hardware failures (RAID1 & UPS w/AVR also in my system), when you're spending over a grand on hardware what's an extra twenty bucks, and most important of all the more shiny lights to blink the better.  

<pre><b><font color=red>"Build a man a fire and he's warm for the rest of the evening.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life." - Steve Taylor</font color=red></b></pre><p>

I'll be the insane one and say that I'd go with #1 just because no one else is. If you could wait a little longer for either AMD to release a lower speed 939 or lower their prices then I'd say it'd be worth it so that you can up your RAM to 1GB. It'd also be nice to start out with a PCI Express graphics slot. If you had Socket 939 and PCI Express then you'd be all set for the future.

<pre><b><font color=red>"Build a man a fire and he's warm for the rest of the evening.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life." - Steve Taylor</font color=red></b></pre><p>

Do not buy that vid card. It's Crap. How much can you spend on vid card?

Id pick the second one. Get a bigger PSU, which you will need, and more RAM. Not having to use a swap file is so much faster. However I would find a way to get that A643500 into option 2 for a great increase in synthetic performance. Maybe worth waiting and saivng for if you are into synthetic performance.

Mobile Barton 2500+ @ 2420mhz 11x220 1.7v
Asus A7N8X Dlx 440 FSB
1gb Geil GD pc3500 Dual Channel (2-3-3-6)
Segata 80gb SATA 8.5ms seek
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro to XT(420/730)

Yea, I am getting ready to upgrade myself and was wondering how long till they have some affordable 939 processors. Not worried about pci express though--Tom's did an article that showed agp 4x and 8x show little difference at this point. <A HREF="http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040310/pcie-..." target="_new">http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040310/pcie-...;/A> 8x is still a long way from being saturated. I doubt the card makers are just going to up and stop making agp cards they are making money on. I think pci express is just another one of those "flashing lights" you mentioned in that other post at this point, he he.

I thought I read they were going to step down the 939 processors was I mistaken on that? Someone else wrote that 3500+ was going to be the lowest one. Honestly though the 3500+ 939 did ok beating out single channel 3400+ 754 and p4 3.4 in many (but not all) of the gaming tests in a recent Tom's review. In some of the tests the 3400+ single channel actually beat out the dual channel 939 3500+ though. The cache is lowered on the 939 chips.
<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040601/socket_939-03...." target="_new">http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040601/socket_939-03....;/A> Check out the far cry bench for example. The margin is pretty slim. Considering the lowest 939 chip is $500 and it only marginally outperforms (sometimes) the 754 3400+ chip that is much cheaper I think I am gonna give 939 a pass this time. That asus board has gotten decent reviews but all the same I don't like buying new, largely unproven tech.
I am considering the a64 3200+. At $280 that is already way more than I want to spend on a processor, lol.

The only reason why i would pick system 1 is the reason that it IS socket 939 and therefore i can buy a good mobo, the lowest end CPU, and upgrade the CPU later......but buying system 2 now, and upgrading the cpu and mobo in a few years or so seems like a much better idea and a great money saver (even more so when PCI express and DDR2 are common place on all motherboards). The CPU and Motherboard of system 1 cost $300 more than system 2, and when the benchmarks are so close to each other for the 2 sockets, buying a socket 754, and upgrading the motherboard and CPU later to a 939 (when they are less expensive)is the best cost/performance ratio way to go.

Two optical drives are important for me as:
1. I enjoy copying cds/games from the original disk
i.e. disk one is in dvd drive, and copy of disk one is being made directly off of disk 1 in cd burner.
2.For $30, My PC would look hella cooler with 2 drives
3.If one of them fails, i can use the other untill i get my lazy butt to Frys
4.I want to feel like im filling up my nice shiney case

As for the video card, i have decided on the Sapphire 9800 pro http://tinyurl.com/2qe3b

And i will also drop the audio card... any suggestions on a good audio card from the $30-$50 range?

Thanks for all the help guys!

AMD Palomino XP 1600 @1.4 | ASUS A7V-ML | 512 133 SDRAM | 60 GB Maxtor 52,00rpm 2 mb catche | Nvidia GeForce 4 mx420 | CD-RW | DVD Drive |

I would pick system #2 because it has, in IMO, a much better motherboard (more memory is a plus, too). There are many reports of the AGP/PCI lock not working on the ASUS A8V, which the K8T800 PRO is supposed to support. The same thing's happening on Abit's S754 K8T800 PRO board. However, most people RMAing their KV8 Pro are receiving back boards with a functional lock. I don't know whether it's the manufacturers' fault or VIA's fault.

I just thought I'd give you a heads-up on the AGP/PCI lock issues on the K8T800 PRO chipset. If you're not going to do any overclocking, I suppose it doesn't matter. However, if you're paying $171 for a board, I think you deserve a board that works exactly as advertised.

<b>Qui habet aures audiendi audiat</b>

Again I don't know if it is better than the on board sound on that board...ask crashman, but I like my soundblaster live 5.1 (value=oem is cheaper) and in that price range. The on board may be just as good though. Audigy 2 is $80-100 I think and probably better. But heck, I would just give the on board a shot and see how you like it. Keep your money in your pocket.

ps. make sure you don't fall victim to the fake 9800 "pro" thing. <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam..." target="_new">9800 pro fake out/sap. boycott</A>

Also, I thought direct copy was an inferior method of doing that? I still don't really see the point in the 2nd drive. I believe I would save the $35 and if/when the first one happened to break by chance, deal with it then. (Sounds like it is kinda like paying 50% more for an extended warrentee of something that is cheap and easy to replace, and likely not going to break anyway.) Sort of like my idea on checking out the on board sound above. That is another $60-$85 you can keep in your pocket or take your best girl out for dinner and a movie, he he.:>)<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by zeekfu on 06/15/04 09:53 PM.</EM></FONT></P>