Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Athlon64 or P4?

Last response: in CPUs
Share
June 17, 2004 10:32:33 PM

So I am looking at upgrading my computer and am debating between Athlon64 or the P4 (at 2.8 MHz they are ~the same price.)

What are your takes on this? I won't do any O/C and my main concern is NOISE!!! (I have an AMD and it's bloody loud. Thanks.

More about : athlon64

June 17, 2004 10:50:58 PM

I'm running and OCed P4 2.4c. Nice an quiet.
Related resources
June 17, 2004 11:31:41 PM

Haha, both multimedia and gaming!!!

Well, my main concern is the noise. I am sure both guys will blow away my P3 450... I just know a friend of mine with an AthlonXP 2000 and he's always complaining about the noise of his computer.
June 18, 2004 12:09:19 AM

What HSF do you use for your Athlon64?
June 18, 2004 3:58:39 AM

avoid the precotts if your looking to keep down noise, the new retail heatsink/fan combo is down right horrible, dont know why they changed from the copper cooler it had at first.
a b à CPUs
June 18, 2004 4:16:46 AM

Uh, copper is more expensive, I bet I know why they changed!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
June 18, 2004 4:33:18 AM

thanks for stating the obvious. the only problem i have with that is that would mean intel didnt mind using an inferior part if it saved them a couple bucks.
a b à CPUs
June 18, 2004 5:40:00 AM

Is that so hard to believe?

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
June 18, 2004 5:44:15 AM

It actually supprises me! It means they believe the chip will survive with the poorer hsf. Even having a chip that throttles is going to cause a lot of rmas, or some bad blood.
June 18, 2004 5:59:22 AM

I'm up on the A64-3000+ with the Chaintech VNF3-250. My P4 is noisier than this thing and I have put 4 fans on it plus a Northbridge 40mm fan. LOVE IT! To bad I have to give it to my nephew. I guess i could say it's been stolen................................ :lol: 

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!
a b à CPUs
June 18, 2004 6:00:25 AM

It means they think the newer cheaper one has an acceptable noise level.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
June 18, 2004 2:27:26 PM

Hi everyone!
As the author of this post, i'm looking to buy a new computer by the end of the summer. I want to buy something that will last a couple years but I don't know what to take between AMD's 64bit CPU's or Intel's P4... What are the major for and against for both?
Thanks again!
June 18, 2004 2:51:54 PM

Athlon64:

Kills the P4 in gaming.
Runs cooler than any P4, thus makes for a quieter system.
Costs less (since you're probably looking at a Socket754 part)
64-bit ready (when WinXP 64-bit comes out, Athlon64 will be able to run it. Can't say the same for any current P4.)

P4:

Rather better at multimedia and 3D rendering.
Might overclock better (like you care)

<i>Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's...

...an asthmatic werehamster?

<LHGPooBaa> Well, @#!& on me.</i>
June 18, 2004 4:06:20 PM

Well try this, If you are into gamming and dont bitch about the boot times of applications then go for the a64. If you are into gamming but also into video and audio compulation then get the p4.

Mobile Barton 2500+ @ 2420mhz 11x220 1.7v
Asus A7N8X Dlx 440 FSB
1gb Geil GD pc3500 Dual Channel (2-3-3-6)
Segata 80gb SATA 8.5ms seek
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro to XT(420/730)
June 18, 2004 4:57:16 PM

Quote:
Well try this, If you are into gamming and dont bitch about the boot times of applications then go for the a64. If you are into gamming but also into video and audio compulation then get the p4.

I really don't agree with that. Have you used both a p4 and a a64? Because boot times on applications aren't even noticable. Also there maybe a couple seconds difference in encoding video on a p4 and a a64(at the most 10% difference). Some of you people make it out to be a big difference, which it isn't. Go check some benches if you don't believe me.


AMD64 2800+
MSI Neo-Fis2r
512mb Kingmax ddr400
Sapphire 9800pro 128mb
10K WD Raptor
June 18, 2004 5:46:52 PM

A better question, have you? My god I build PCs as a hobby and have done it all but to answer you question in more detail yes I have built P4 rigs and a64 rigs for countless clients, including the EEs and socket 939 chips (wish I could have one of them myself). Benches are irrelevant for it take a little of EVERYTHING and formulates a score. Please read my post again before continuing to refute.

Mobile Barton 2500+ @ 2420mhz 11x220 1.7v
Asus A7N8X Dlx 440 FSB
1gb Geil GD pc3500 Dual Channel (2-3-3-6)
Segata 80gb SATA 8.5ms seek
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro to XT(420/730)
a b à CPUs
June 18, 2004 11:02:54 PM

I build computers professionaly and...don't let me interupt you nice people!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
June 19, 2004 1:59:22 AM

June 18, 2004


I find it amusing that Intel and AMD CPU fans form sides to an engineering argument. If we all really were engineers, what argument would there really be? Facts are facts and simple application studies can determine your best choice, and the best processor for your tasks. What “choice” is there but the right one, after all? So I say there is no AMD verses Intel war. The question is what choice should you make?

Intel and AMD depart from CPU processing most significantly by the depth of their prediction pipelines, and subsequent memory needs to fill that pipeline. Intel CPU’s, P4’s for sure, like lots of closely coupled cache memory to supply a speedy but deep prediction pipeline. Why is it speedy and why does it need so much memory? Imagine that the CPU knows that I want a glass of milk every time I eat a sandwich. Not only will the CPU/cache it fill a glass FULL of milk (lots of memory to supply ALL of the predicted milk) out of fast local memory (the fridge), but it will also do it as fast as it can at full CPU clock rate. But what happens when I don’t want either that much milk (I can’t drink 32oz!), or switch to coffee right in the middle of my sandwich? The CPU has to start a reverse course flushing process. Get rid of the milk, run back to the fridge (local memory), find coffee in the local fridge or possibly go farther to the grocery store (RAM) and run then run all the way back to the table and start pouring coffee. Not only does it waste time if I change my drinking taste, but the process can’t just stop pouring milk immediately. It has to finish what it started over time much as the last remaining stream of milk must fall through the air to the glass. Since the CPU’s branch prediction is so sure you want milk, the stream is fast and the pitcher held pretty far from the glass. It has no knowledge of your picky taste. Once it gets moving foreword, it wants to stay moving smoothly and quickly forward in a big way. No sense sloshing all that milk around! This is great if you do repetitive tasks. Eat milk with a sandwich ALL the time. CPU’s like repetition. Maybe that’s why artificial intelligence is artificial. The machine can simply fix mistakes faster than humans can recognize it! The machine really doesn’t “know” what you want at all it just predicts it.

An AMD processor is a little different in that the pipeline is small and not so deep. The CPU runs at a two-thirds or so clock rate reduction compared to an Intel CPU but does more work per clock cycle. And, the CPU doesn’t pretend to be all that smart. It meters out a little milk at a time into a smaller 8oz glass. So it doesn’t need a huge fridge to supply a large amount of milk to load from a huge local memory. It can also walks back and forth from the fridge to the dinner table much faster than the Intel part so if you CHANGE your mind, it’s very efficient at swapping milk for coffee. It has less to milk to rid itself of, it gets to the fridge faster, the fridge is smaller so coffee is easier to find, and the trip back to you is faster. With the CPU doing more work per clock cycle than an Intel part, it easily makes changes with much less need for a large expensive local memory. A littler fridge and a fast host are fine. But this is a disadvantage IF you want a LOT of milk, and the smaller fridge runs dry, and the CPU has to go to RAM memory to get more milk.

The issue at hand is do you do predictive tasks or not? Games are highly unpredictive as game speeds ramp up. Just what will you be doing and when? Only the shadow knows. When predictive tasks that need LOTS of the same data streams come into play, Intel rules. But these tasks seem less in number than unpredictive one that we use most often. Or, the differences in predictive tasks are measured in a few seconds or so and don’t really matter. Do I care if a video clip is decided in 20 or 25 seconds? I do care if my computer stutters playing games or on interactive tasks involving any eye – hand – monitor inputs. Watching a CPU crunch a set of numbers is not really a big deal if its 5-10% between the two. For me it is, anyway.

Cost is not an issue with true performance users because we pick the right CPU for the job and cost is secondary. But if you aren’t a performance user, I suggest that the short pipeline AMD structure will benefit you more often on most applications, and for less money, than an Intel part. Now that the 939 boards are out, the cost is even less than it was before with even faster memory speeds. AMD likes faster RAM because it has to use it more than an Intel part, but this is still faster than flushing out bad branch predictions to large local on die memory based on application tests.

Pride and assumed superiority can get in the way of good engineering. Why do we take sides so firmly when there is no side to take? One does this, the other that. But we will take thing “personally” which seems to mean that I should be hurt to hear the truth. Why? If I take things as simply true, or false, I learn something. If I defend a bad aspect of a CPU or any other item, I’m stuck defending a thinning circle of knowledge. I have a Mercedes. I didn’t make this car, it just owes me what it is, no more no less. I bought what it is, not what it isn’t. An expensive car, for sure, but do I tattoo a MB logo all over my body and defend it to the death? No, I don’t. I sent in a five-page letter to Mercedes and pointed out PAGES of things wrong with their car. You know what? They sent a 20-page latter back outlining 2,000 changes that will make the next car better! This is the way it is supposed to be. A good consumer who is realistic with the product, and a manufacturer who is, too. I’d have to say AMD is much better at this than Intel, or it’s customers. I’d say most people need stop cycle anti-virus enabled 64-bit computing with lower CPU costs much more than expensive Intel Extreme Edition P4 processors. I’d never buy a subzero 100 cubic foot fridge, but the P4EE seems to be just that. Like lots of cold milk?

For BOTH manufacturers, I’d say who needs hot and leaky 90nm die CPU’s verses a larger die with less leakage and maybe two parallel CPU cores that really work? The me too trap may consume AMD if it follows Intel’s lead before real low leakage dielectrics can steam the wasted power in 90nm die products. Not to mention my Intel P4 locks up at random intervals with its secondary “virtual” core enabled which speaks of great marketing, and a flaky CPU. It just isn’t a benefit when it doesn’t work ubiquitously.

Those who hang with good people get better themselves. AMD users seem more knowledgeable about their processors, and also feel comfortable admitting their weaknesses. Intel seems more like a Harley, once you paste it all over your body, most people feel kind’a stuck trying to defend what ever it is, or will become. Not only does the customer defend lack of change, the manufacturer sees no point in providing any! With enough money, you can fence it out till you HAVE to change, though. Intel and Microsoft can both use this tactic. Big companies make money, small one’s make products.

There is legitimate Intel users who also understand their CPU. But most don’t really know why they really bought their CPU. I have a P4 3.0Ghz 533MHz bus 845 chipset system that is barely better than an AMD 2800+ Barton system at 1/3 MORE money. I built the Intel system when AMD did have thermal issue to work out. But AMD has worked them out and their current crop of CPU’s are well suited for short branch prediction users. With the 939 socket boards taking either 32 or 64 bit processors with more economical and faster dual memory, it seems AMD has done well for itself.
June 19, 2004 2:18:25 AM

Comparing cpus with milk and a fridge......you are the most creative person i know LOL. I agree with what you say about amd's new line. I myself own an intel system and a amd(one based off a 2.2 p4 and one off a a64 2800+). My a64 wipes the floor with my 2.2 p4 and it's running at 1.8. I would consider myself an amd fan, but only because of what they are currently doing. If intel were to start making better products and a better price then I would be an intel fan. I like intel back in the p3 days but currently I don't feel like intel is advancing. Seems like they call adding cache and higher the clock advancing. They did just start making the prescott cores on new .09 processing but it's not doing anything more than adding heat issues. Maybe intel's next generation will blow our minds because if It doesn't amd maybe become bigger than we all ever thought it would.

AMD64 2800+
MSI Neo-Fis2r
512mb Kingmax ddr400
Sapphire 9800pro 128mb
10K WD Raptor<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by donniedarko on 06/18/04 10:19 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 19, 2004 3:05:49 AM

Im sorry ;-)

Mobile Barton 2500+ @ 2420mhz 11x220 1.7v
Asus A7N8X Dlx 440 FSB
1gb Geil GD pc3500 Dual Channel (2-3-3-6)
Segata 80gb SATA 8.5ms seek
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro to XT(420/730)
June 19, 2004 3:51:12 AM

What is your nice, quiet, P4 going to do next year when you try and feed it Windows 64? It's going to SH1T! Since I have both machines to run right now, a 2.8C OCed to 3.2 and an A64-3000+, I've got to agree with Scottchen. I can't tell the difference noise-wise.

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!
June 19, 2004 5:30:58 AM

ok thats the third time youve posted the same exact thing....
!