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What do you guys think of intel 775 Cpus?

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June 21, 2004 2:29:16 AM

Just wondering what you guys think of new intel cpus that just came. Personally, I don't think they are that great at all. Are even worth buying right now for anyone? Seems like better to wait for DDR2 and PCIe vid cards to mature...

More about : guys intel 775 cpus

June 21, 2004 3:22:26 AM

You're preaching to the choir here! Maybe you could use one for a space heater! :lol: 

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!
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June 21, 2004 4:46:03 AM

yeah i think the incentive to buy intel is COMPLETELY gone with this round. not only are they more expensive(like always), they consume more power and make your house friggin hot. And on top of that, they dont even perform as well as that athlon 64's that are priced lower, consume less power and DONT make you into a molten ball of wax.

if these things run as hot as we think they do...i just hope the government bans them for promoting global warming.

"I see" said the blind man to his deaf dog
June 21, 2004 4:48:18 AM

and the new pin layout...thats just a dumb idea. its easy to treat a piece of metal thats a square inch like your grandmothers ashes than it is to do the same for a motherboard.

chips are small=easy to protect like own child
motherboards are not small=not easy to protect like own child

"I see" said the blind man to his deaf dog
June 21, 2004 5:03:07 AM

I dare anyone to show me a socket 775 3.4 or 3.6 (other than engineering sample) that runs hot.
What really supprises is how little attention the new boards and chips are getting. They are worth it.
June 21, 2004 5:29:25 AM

I think the metal design looks weird, kinda 80's-ish, but as far as performance goes I haven't read anything particularly great. I think Intel just needs some time to work out the kinks on the new chips, then they'll be worth spending the dough on.

I personally would either stick with the northwood design,(that's what I did), or just wait a year for all the new tech stuff like PCI-e, DDR2, and maybe even SATA 2 to become more widely used.

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June 21, 2004 6:49:23 AM

they seem like no big news just a marketing gimick cause they look different and have a new socket as for pci-e and ddr2 it is gonna have to be added sometime but i think they are trying to hard to ge it out now befor developing thier product enough

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June 21, 2004 9:36:49 AM

That pin layout not bad. It better then what it was before.. Where if you accidently bend or brake the pin. You have to send a intel or amd for a replacement of a chip.

And how many clumsly people have you seen.
June 21, 2004 10:49:50 AM

I think LGA 775 is a completely stupid idea. Socket 775 would be better. LGA costs more than socket, so mobos are costlier to produce. And in case of bent pins, CPU replacement is easier and quicker than mobo replacement.

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June 21, 2004 11:14:17 AM

I think those chips are pretty damn hot ! I'm surprised no one has yet registered the "IntelMeltDown" handle :) 

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
June 22, 2004 12:27:20 AM

Please don't give anybody an idea like that! {laugh]


"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!
June 22, 2004 12:28:46 AM

Please don't give anybody an idea like that! :lol: 



"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. Now, let's eat!
June 22, 2004 8:03:12 PM

Have you seen the Intel reference HeatSink/Fan? It's so HUGE, this confirm that the LGA775 Prescott are running hot! I'm sure BOXED Intel will be sold for a premium, they will have an overcharge because of the box size. :smile:

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June 22, 2004 8:06:18 PM

Quote:
That pin layout not bad. It better then what it was before.. Where if you accidently bend or brake the pin. You have to send a intel or amd for a replacement of a chip.

Pin breaks is mostly "newbie errors" and I better like changeing one CPU than changing the whole MB because the socket is messed up.

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June 22, 2004 8:21:20 PM

Quote:
Just wondering what you guys think of new intel cpus that just came.

First, I'm really surprised... No one here seems to talk about it! When I saw the reviews in the beginning of the week, I thought I would have to read through a ton of threads about the NEW Intel Platform! But, we barely hear words about it.

Does this mean the enthousiats community is really disapointed or pissed off?

Personnally, I found that some features are nice, I like the RAID matrice stuff and the PCI-EXPRESS support. For the rest, nothing impressive : huge heatsink, controversial socket design, costly DDR2 ram, new form factor, etc...

People complained about AMD CPU pricing when they launched Socket939. I do really think that most complainers should apoogize today. Either AMD knew that the LGA775 would not be impressive or they guessed well!

By the end of the summer, when P4E/LGA775 will be widely available and AMD64 chipsets will support PCI-EXPRESS. The AMD64 platform will surely lead in terms of overall price and performance.

And wait... AMD still have one card left : 90nm AMD64 will probably hit store shelf at 2.6/2.8GHz in Q3, these will kick the Intel butt! :smile:

NOTE : Internal Intel staff are probably under pressure to get the company back on track!

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June 22, 2004 8:32:47 PM

Well i think one thing that happened was that there was alot of drum beating about this upcoming change by intel that was suppose to change the war with amd, which it did not. it brought nothing in performance, which might have shocked some people.

the other thing id like to point out is that the enthusiast community might be taking the new releases hard, becuase intel is stepping up the fight to restrict overclocking and tuning of thier chips and chipsets, which is a slap in the face of the enthusiasts. intel has never been openly friendly to this segment, and now it seems they really would like to keep those types of users out of thier systems. amd on the other hand hasnt done nearly that much to hinder enthusiasts, only now have they locked some multipliers, but they still keep a line of cpus that are unlocked.

intel just doesnt seem to like the whole overclocker's segment, which will hurt them some. it certainly wont kill them, but it will create a rift and one thing they should learn is that enthusiasts are often the people that propel products to the masses, spreading the word about something and making it popular.
June 22, 2004 10:08:48 PM

Another blow Intel took was having Tejas scrapped for heat issues. I know the new socket 775's are hot, think about how bad Tejas was that they scrapped it. I think it was also going to draw like 120-140 watts just for the proc. Imagine running one of those with your NVidia leaf blower in the same case, better grab your ass a 550 PSU for that.

"It's too late now anyway. That song is stuck in my head and the only way to get rid of it is to blow it out. With a bullet!! - Carl
June 22, 2004 10:21:26 PM

> I think it was also going to draw like 120-140 watts just
>for the proc

150W is what I heard. take it fwiw.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
June 23, 2004 12:32:57 AM

Once again I will join the fray and offer my newbie opinion to all you hardcore computer professionals, overclockers and the like. :>)

From what I have read on lately on Tom's also from alot of you guys discussing it here, it seemed to me the pin array *looks* more solid and sensible than I imagined. I can see how if the pins were flimsly or broke easily that would be a major deal for the motherboard makers. However, from looking at the new article:

<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040619/socket..." target="_new">http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040619/socket...;/A>

<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040619/socket..." target="_new">http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040619/socket...;/A>

as well as reading the comments the "land grid array" seems to make a bit more sense to me now:

"LGA (Land Grid Array) technology comes from the high-end server arena and allows for higher pin densities as well as very consistent electrical and mechanical characteristics. Less force needs to be applied in order to secure physical contact. According to an Intel PR manager, the main reason for introducing LGA 775 was the larger pin count, which makes it easier to supply power to future processors. Although Tejas has gone, we can be fairly sure that future CPUs will require a decent amount of power - particularly if you think dual core."

"While the pins have been part of the CPU before, they are now relocated to the socket. Most of Taiwan's motherboard makers are afraid that their motherboard return rates may skyrocket due to damaged LGA 775 sockets. Of course they would have to answer for that type of damage in some way. Considering the ongoing price war between Asus and most of the smaller manufacturers, costs will become a matter of life or death."

from the same article. Also:

"It is not difficult to handle an LGA 775 motherboard and processor with care, as long as you keep a few things in mind. Try to avoid touching the underside of the processor as well as the pins inside the socket. Make sure you insert and remove the processor without any insertion or removal angle. There are two notches in the upper and lower center of the frame (see third image on the next page) that allow your fingers to grab the processor without having to fumble around in any way."

"When you close the socket frame, make sure that the processor is inserted properly, and check that pressure is applied equally to both sides of the chip before locking down the lever. You're done!"

and furthermore:

" Everybody is complaining about the new socket being fragile, and MSI decided to do something about it. G52-M7001X3 is the code name for a CPU insertion tool that will be included with all MSI LGA 775 motherboards. It's an interesting add-on, but careful users will find it unnecessary."

From looking at the picture the pins actually seem thicker and sturdier than the ones on the chips currently. It still could be an annoying problem for some motherboard manufacturers if people try to put the cpus on with a hammer and duct tape, but it doesn't look like it will be nearly the issue I had invisioned when reading about it. Also, perhaps for some of you techs who make a living assembling computers the "hysteria" about it might mean less people want to do it yourself. Just a thought.
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From reading that article it looks like the pin array is the least of the worries with the new platform. I would think before they sent samples to Tom's they would have worked some more of the kinks out. At the very least they should package the cpu with a fan that will cool the chip. That seems like a glaring newbie error in my book. I am sure it was a rush to get it out, but still that would have been a simple easy remedy to one of the concerns the Tom's review voiced. On the other hand I imagine, due to the prestige of Tom's testing reputation, that some of the feedback will be applied to production. Indeed it appears to me that the whole thing is still somewhat in development:
"This article was the biggest project THG has ever done, the cope of which is analogous to Intel's ambitions with its eye popping number of new features. Considering the amount of snafus that arose over the course of last week, I personally would say that Intel over extended itself by insisting on the platform launch at this very moment. Four more weeks could have ensured that all components were available. "

As far as overclocking goes I can see why they wouldn't want people to overclock if it runs that hot stock. Something I read in the article seems to indicate to me that perhaps the current design is approaching "maximum warp" anyway:
"The new top model will be the Pentium 4 Processor 560, which runs at 3.6 GHz. Four other versions, with model names 550 to 520, run at 3.4, 3.2, 3.0 and 2.8 GHz. While the TDP was 103 °C for the socket 478 Pentium 4 Prescott at 3.4 GHz, the maximum power output now will be 115 W. As a result, there's not much overclocking margin with the top models. More than ever, you should keep a close eye on the thermal parameters if you plan to go for a LGA 775 machine."

I certainly wouldn't buy any of this stuff, but then again I never would buy the brand spanking new technology. I think it is interesting how ddr 2 has been out for a bit with presumably nothing to run it on in anticipation of this release. It occurs to me that as amd has the jump on advancing 64 bit intel has made the jump in advancing several other new techs. It seems all pretty hypothetical to me at this point but I suppose they have a detailed roadmap of how they plan to develop the tech. On the one hand one company gets the jump and has their patents on that "path" on the other hand the other company can sit back and see what they did wrong. I think it is interesting to see how the two companies develop their strategies.




I imagine I will get a couple "thank you captain obvious comments." :>)
June 23, 2004 1:23:01 AM

Good review :) 
I agree with alot of the technology being pressed forth by intel, as it is imperative to breaking the 5 ghz margin in the future...the new pin configuration allows for shorter pins and ultimatley the chipspeedwill increase with ramped up clock speeds..the chip itself is the exact same archetecture as the previous prescots and unfortunately the deeper pipe\better branch prediction combo does nothing to solve intels gaming woes, only renforces the problem. This will change with the teja's hopefully :)  The most important thing about this chip however is the somewhat LOCKED FSB.. this is a smack in the face to overclockers in general pinning us to an unacceptable 10% increase in system speed. The uncapped fsb was one thing that intel had going for itself in the oc arena. Most sites do not cover this but for ocrs this is extremley important
for more info check out this link

http://www.overclockers.com/articles1049/index02.asp

As far as the fsb lock, i personaly hope that amd does not follow suite. they have already limited fsb increse and i dont see whats stopping them. This could pottentialy hurt oc'ing in a big way.
as far as the socket itself, I think that it has bright potential in the future, but intel needs to take a look at the high end market as well as the masses.
June 23, 2004 1:24:48 AM

OK so here is your first " obvious comment". The FX chips have 940 pins, so high pincount is no reason to go lga.
The "pins" on the motherboard do look large, but only because they are magnified.
The "thermal solution" for the scotty is huge. If they were any bigger, the case would have to be wider.
June 23, 2004 1:36:34 AM

I totally agree! LGA seems pretty useless in a mass market product. AMD proved the world that classic pins can get the job done! And why do Intel need 775 pins? Their Prescott don't have integrated memory controller???

And there is no correlation between CPU core spedd in pinout! FSB speed might be affected to some extent by a pin design and the only way to eliminate PIN noise/interference would be to weld the CPU to the MB! :smile:

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June 23, 2004 1:52:08 AM

yea most people are like that they would judge a person based on there sn...


dude i dont care what people think thats not what the forums about... im buying the new 775 for the pci express support and ddr2..when caste latency probs are solved it will happen cross platform, people see the two and there like damn and intels marketing strategy hasnt failed yet(rambus was more of an industry flop)....this will be increadably helpfull in the future and im hopein to save on upgrades end...
June 23, 2004 1:56:34 AM

by stating that i ment the combination of reducesd pin siz and ramped up core speed are two improvements made.. also the new sockets are locked to the board with tthe locking arm applying the force..this should make heatsink changes easier
June 23, 2004 1:59:15 AM

your right man thers no such thig as futureproof..but believe it or not you can actually save money... thats why some overclockers overclock...be open minded
June 23, 2004 2:10:36 AM

LOL, i think i'm one of the most extreme overclockers here:D  And we don't overclock to save money! It's for bragging rights!!

Overclocking and buying the newest technology are not the same thing...

The first chipsets are never perfect, Intel's gonna keep ramping up the clock speed, soon the 1066FSB, then you gotta upgrade the mobo again to get FSB compatible with that, then there's the whole PCI Express issue, so i guess you're willing to pay for the price premium for the PCI-Express Video cards, which costs a lot more than the AGP solution for the same speeds.

And if DDR2 is like the short-lived RDRAM, maybe we just march straight into DDR3, since that's what happened in the video card segment, then you're screwed again.


I just don't think about the future, i just buy the best price/performance combo that's out there.
Anyways that's just my opinion after buying/building a LOT of computers.

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June 23, 2004 3:04:20 AM

I think
1- The reduced contact point of lga is a bad idea, less contact means more resistance, means more heat.
2- DDR2 is for FSB at 300mhz, trying to use it at 200mhz is like trying to use a rail in an Indy.
3- A general purpose bus/controller never works as well as a specific purpose bus controller, so PCI exp will never be as good as Agp could be, when used for graphics.
June 23, 2004 3:11:38 AM

common man i know that..
and you have some real valid points... but dont you think in some crazy fluke of reality some people dont overclock for bragging rights... rather they do it to tax thier system for all its worth?
im not tryin to question ur credabilty man im just sayin i see it different
and yea to get a new processor you need to get a better chipset with an upped frontside bus but you know you can keep that cpu kicking another quarter or two longer by ocing. My video card is keeping my system alive as of now..sysmark scores hit the dumps but at least i can hit up utk4 matches full res. and i think everyones aware that pci express is gonna suck for awhile, new tech always does, but intels fairly reliable and besided the pin and fsb issue it seams fairly solid... as long as theres a plausible way around the new fsb restraints im game. hey ill putt in in a pci 32 meg card and chill for about two quarters, until pci express prices drop... if you know anything about ways around the fsb restrictions i wanna know cuz thats kinda important to me
June 23, 2004 3:46:07 AM

haha dude those are all seriously good points and funny too i think that these are pertanent points, but what aout everything running through pciexpress i mean when theyve done away with legacy in a year or.... two or three.... many people will say by then well have found another means ....but theoreticly when everything is running through pci express(no balance point between pci express and pci) it should have enough bandwith to run faster and by then we will have a card cappable of taking advantage of its bandwith. Now this might be way off the mark so if it is lemme have it!!--- :)  i just think that intels gotta start somewhere and by pushing the tech now it will open up doors in the future.
June 23, 2004 3:55:38 AM

Pci express, is an upgrade for pci. Great. Agp 8X was an upgrade to Agp 4X in bandwidth only. As would Agp 16X be. With Agp, however it is possible to make changes to the bus, without affecting how the sound or lan card works. By going to a single format, we will be going back to the old one size fits all of the old staight pci days.
June 23, 2004 3:56:10 AM

also reguarding pci express...ultimatley when the sysem is fast enough the fact that it is a general bus controller should help as it allows the graphics card to acces the main memory
June 23, 2004 5:13:22 AM

Sun use LGA since 97 i never a single person complaine

i need to change useur name.
June 23, 2004 6:04:05 AM

LOL DIDN'T YOU KNOW I WAS JOKING?! us overclockers are not THAT pathetic, oh wait, some of us are... Anyways, you actually going to stick with a PCI Video card?! JEEZ! I can't live like that. FSB restrictions? You mean the FSB lock Intel put on? Well if you read tom's article, they said Asus/Gigabyte can unlock the lock, but i'm not too sure about Intel anymore, they want to kick overclockers away from them, so we're kinda forced to go AMD.

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June 23, 2004 7:20:09 AM

Hay you did not think about the cost Spitfire_x86. What cheaper in the long run for intel. 1,000 cpus that had broken pins. Or 1,000 cpus that are working. And in the long run the price of the cpus will drop due to this.

It like the SUVs Vers Cars. before the SUVs came out gas was $1.09 a gal. Now we are having Gas shortages due Suvs. They can pass anything But a gas station so prices are $2.19 a gal now.
June 23, 2004 7:44:35 AM

I think Intel made this chip so the Overclockers who think they know what there doing. And fry there chips and send them back for a new one. That more power for Intel. And I rather hear some overclocker Pout I cant overclock this cpu. If intel can save money. From stopping Overclockers. Alot of times it will save money for the people. For they dont have to replace the tons of chips.
June 23, 2004 12:21:32 PM

Quote:
What cheaper in the long run for intel. 1,000 cpus that had broken pins. Or 1,000 cpus that are working. And in the long run the price of the cpus will drop due to this.

But many ahve concerns about the socket itself. What is better 1000 broken CPU pin or 1000 broken socket?

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