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Intel has to catch up

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July 16, 2004 8:13:31 PM

I'm not an Intel hater, but I really think that Intel is on the down.

1) Firt came the Presshot
2) Now comes the dodgy 775 socket

Intel is trying to bring in new technologies to their platform (PCI-Express)
but they are going about it in the wrong way. They should have stuck with
the socket 478 (865 and 875) as it can now be shown that 775 under performs.

I know it is early time, but is 775 the right way forward? Can you see yourself
as an enthusiast building an overclcking or other such system on this board and CPU?

AMD now has the upper hand, its platform has developed over the past year and now
Intel has to play some catch up.

More about : intel catch

July 16, 2004 8:29:08 PM

yeah yeah we know. There's been a thousand and one threads made on this topic. Thanks!

<font color=blue>My dick is so big, that my dick has a dick. And my dicks' dick is bigger than yours.</font color=blue>
July 16, 2004 10:59:33 PM

No they really dont. Intel is very rich and still hold the majority of the market and most all the market for ppl who know nothing about computers. What does AMD have? They have a 64 bit chip that for the most part is useless. Well, we can use it when windows XP 64bit comes out. But when will that be? It will be when intel has a 64-bit chip of there own. I will still buy a 64-bit AMD because of future proofing and it is better and cheaper than intel chips but really there is no point to have 64-bit chips. Games can not yet utilize it and neither can most software. Believe me when software starts to impliment 64-bits Intel will have a 64-bit chip of there own (or even a couple of chips).

Isn't anyone outraged that these chips still have no support. Can't game/software developers create patches to utilize 64-bits. Bah
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July 16, 2004 11:46:04 PM

No 64 bit software ( linux doesn't count i guess.) It just doesn't matter. The A64 is the best 32 bit chip around. When windows 64 comes out, A64 will do 32 bit better. When 64 bit software comes, another boost for your old chip.
Buy an A64 now, get free upgrades later. What a deal.
July 17, 2004 1:13:21 AM

Prescott is not a failure as many forum freaks try to point out.

PCI Express, DDR2 and LGA 775 are not a failure either, these features super high bandwidth, that can never be a failure.

Also, 64bit is already being implented in games, SSE, SSE2 and other extensions provide 64bit bandwidth.

Don't believe everything you read on websites or stuff you read on forums as many websites have sponsers who pay them to favor this product or another, use you own judgment.


===========================
<A HREF="http://www.clan-chaos.com" target="_new">clan CHAOS</A>
July 17, 2004 3:19:46 AM

STFU :mad: 

Quote:
Don't believe everything you read on websites or stuff you read on forums as many websites have sponsers who pay them to favor this product or another, use you own judgment.

Then why you are posting in this forum? Why you like THG videos?

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July 17, 2004 3:28:48 AM

I agree with you! People who sees conspiracy everywhere are often the most biased people around!

--
It's tricky to use words like <b><font color=green>AMD</font color=green></b> or <b><font color=blue>Intel</font color=blue></b> in a signature some users could think your are biased.
July 17, 2004 5:44:29 AM

You are right, bandwidth is where its at.

Im on 925X now and it smokes the socket 478 counterparts at stock speed.

A64 will also adopt SSE3 very soon.

LGA775 wil prove to be the superior platform. Anything pro Intel on this forum will bend the AMD fans out of shape.



<b>My sig is better than yours.<b>
July 17, 2004 6:39:57 AM

Reality check.
When Intel saw the leakage current (spelled heat) with prescott, they should have shifted northwood to 90 nano. This would have given them 4 gigs by now.
Instead they decided to push ahead, and now have $3B+ in stock on the shelf.
Plugging a leaky baseboard into a form that is heat sensitive makes no sense at all. Sure Intel is big enough to cram what they want down our throats, but it is going to cost them.
July 17, 2004 6:50:56 AM

Well People dont understand something. Each company Leap frog each other. Like when Amd hit the 1ghz mark. Then they stayed the fastest untel 2000+ And they had a Long downslide on tech. While Intel was the fastest Untel the Amd 64 came out. And amd has the fastest computer. Intel will come back. But this leapfroging in tech is what fun between both companys.
July 17, 2004 7:26:04 AM

Yea the whole thing is interesting and everyone has their opinions. I don't know enough about the stock market to make the assertion really but that never stoped anyone on this forum so here goes: Intel is the giant and they are pushing ahead to new technology. The average corperate user likely isn't going to be concerned with overclocking for the sake of gaming they are just going to be following along with the upgrades that they deem neccessary to stay ahead of the game. I suppose many companies upgrade on a regular basis, so despite the disappointments things will move forward and intel won't loose enough to loose the marketing war.

It does seem like they are making some poor decisions though, doesn't it? I would hate to invest in a major upgrade then later find out it is worse than what I had to start with. It seems kind of dishonest doesn't it. My assumption is that it is all a means to an end. They have planned to technology out this way to get to where they want to go.

It is interesting to me how the technology advances. Ddr 2 is on graphics cards and now ram. I saw the ddr 2 ram out before the new intel platform came out. I find that a bit bizzare in a way.

Amd has the a64 but intel now has ddr2, pci express and so forth. Some very interesting topics of conversation, no doubt.



<font color=purple>there is no such thing as a free lunch...</font color=purple>
July 17, 2004 7:29:06 AM

Quote:
What does AMD have? They have a 64 bit chip that for the most part is useless. Well, we can use it when windows XP 64bit comes out.

Is this some kind of joke? What an amazingly ignorant comment. Just because we aren't utilizing the 64-bit technologies of the A64...you know what? Nevermind. I don't feel like wasting my time with you.

But people like you worry me. Spreading all this unbelievable bs.

The A64 kicks ass in games you jackass. Sorry, sorry. "Stay calm." Ok, all I ask is for you to read. Just read. I don't know HOW you came up with that ridiculous claim, but it definately wasn't from an acclaimed website.

I feel for you.

--

"I'm a rageaholic."
(<i>starts crying</i>)
"I just can't live without rageahol." - Homer Simpson
July 17, 2004 8:23:10 AM

The Athlon64 is a new innovation, just wait 6 months to a year when the software and patches for 64bit is here. 32bit has been around for a hell of a long time, just imagine what the Athlon64 will be capable of in the future.

If you want a quick fix, buy a prescott, but I see this chip going nowhere.
July 17, 2004 6:05:17 PM

ok i have to comment on this now. u say the a64 kicks ass in games. does it beat a 3ghz prescott at 1600x1200 in games?? i think that would be no. you're limited by your gpu anyway so as long as you have something descent its the same speed.
July 17, 2004 7:04:56 PM

Some of u ppl are so naive. First of I said that the A64 was still the best chip around. My argumanet based soley on my oponion and my experince with purachsing computer hardware/software is that things take a while to come out (I don't believe 64-bit stuff will be out in 6 months). Why would games makers or software developers waste time making 64-bit software/patches when a small miniority of users has A64's? Possibly they wish to push 64-bit to the foerfront to benifit themselves somehow but I find this hard to believe. They will stick with making 32-bit stuff until it is profitable to switch.
July 17, 2004 8:54:29 PM

Quote:
ok i have to comment on this now. u say the a64 kicks ass in games. does it beat a 3ghz prescott at 1600x1200 in games?? i think that would be no.

And I think you have no clue what your talking about. You sound like one of them people that would say, "My p4 is faster than your athlon because I have a higher clock speed".

AMD64 2800+
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July 17, 2004 10:09:46 PM

lol, intel isn't even racing with AMD. they don't need to. they have the corporate market, they dictate industry standard, amd can get 100fps more in games, who really cares? we all know the enthusiast market makes up only 5% of the computer market. Besides ,the A64 does not beat a P4 across the board. only beats it in application specific games.


Prescott 3.0E
1GB PC 3200 Dual channel
Asus P4P800 Bios 1016
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
42,801 Aquamarks
July 17, 2004 10:26:18 PM

What's an application specific game?

--

"I'm a rageaholic."
(<i>starts crying</i>)
"I just can't live without rageahol." - Homer Simpson
July 17, 2004 10:47:28 PM

Quote:
ok i have to comment on this now. u say the a64 kicks ass in games. does it beat a 3ghz prescott at 1600x1200 in games??


yes


sure it wont make the same difference, like if you are running at 800x600, but a faster proc will always get you a few more FPS

besides, most games are just as CPU limited as GPU limited. look at Commanche4, UT2004, and im sure Doom3 will be to a certain extent

and if you were trying to make a point of the Prescott being faster for Windows stuff, that also is quite wrong

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July 18, 2004 1:44:18 AM

a64 performs slightly better than a P4 in some games. Serious sam, UT2k4, while the intel is better in QuakeIII based games.

Prescott 3.0E 1MB L2 HT
1GB PC 3200 Dual channel(PAT)
Asus P4P800 Bios 1016
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
42,801 Aquamarks
July 18, 2004 1:49:02 AM

true , but the celery wasn't intended for the enthusiast or hobbyists market. it's a value chip for bundled pre-fab systems. it just cost $125 if you wanna buy it seperately , most people don't. they just buy the whole system, with 1yr subsrciption to MSN.

edited: besides, most people still judge cpu performance based on mhz.

Prescott 3.0E 1MB L2 HT
1GB PC 3200 Dual channel(PAT)
Asus P4P800 Bios 1016
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
42,801 Aquamarks <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Kanavit on 07/17/04 09:50 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 18, 2004 3:32:53 AM

Do you have one of those cute stickers that say "Intel inside <b>idiot outside</b>".
July 18, 2004 5:29:00 AM

Again, what's an application specific game?

--

"I'm a rageaholic."
(<i>starts crying</i>)
"I just can't live without rageahol." - Homer Simpson
July 18, 2004 2:34:57 PM

Quote:
Do you have any doubts?

LOL!

:smile: Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.
July 18, 2004 4:47:16 PM

I can assure everything that they know what you meant when you said application specific games and just pulling a circle jerk because they thought they had something to pick at.

You gotta watch out for the AMD Lemmings here, they pack up like wolves when they smell blood.

I highly doubt any of them own or used the hardware they are even trying to debate about on most threads.

<b>My sig is better than yours.<b>
July 18, 2004 4:51:45 PM

Quote:
When Intel saw the leakage current (spelled heat) with Prescott, they should have shifted Northwood to 90 nano.

Really is that so I guess your BA in IC design and lithography etching manufacturing gives you great insight why a multi billion dollar company that has people that have more education than you have years under you belt would consider moving the Northwood to 0.09u.

The Prescott is the real alternative for increased clock speeds, dual cores, IA-64 extensions, x86-64 emulation (it's crap anyways so who cares if they emulate it. Cant build no game on 16 64bit general registers.)

Also AMD fan boy Intel isn’t pushing anything down your throat. Unless you are talking about your boyfriend then by all means keep it in the other section.

Quote:
The A64 kicks ass in games you jackass. Sorry, sorry. "Stay calm." Ok, all I ask is for you to read. Just read. I don't know HOW you came up with that ridiculous claim, but it definitely wasn't from an acclaimed website.

Ho-ho let me say it then A64's 64bit extensions are useless and pointless. The technology isn’t even enough to push on 64bit apps. 16 register??? What is this the 80's you can’t build decent software technology off so little? At best this crap is going to go the way of MMX, SSE, SSE2, and SSE3 a simple extension. Oh did I mention they seem to have the same amount of registers as well.

Get over it buddy the technology is a mid ground for bigger and better technologies and no hybrid chip is going to be doing that.

Quote:
The Athlon64 is a new innovation, just wait 6 months to a year when the software and patches for 64bit is here. 32bit has been around for a hell of a long time, just imagine what the Athlon64 will be capable of in the future.

Oh goodie lets have hybrid code oh oh I sure hope they add some 16bit code in those patches I really love to memory leaks, perhaps some stop errors too. If you can't figure it out Windows 95 is all I have to say.

Quote:
If you want a quick fix, buy a Prescott, but I see this chip going nowhere.

Oh look at the AMD fag boy frothing at the mouth *throws A64* go get it boy.

Quote:
ok i have to comment on this now. u say the a64 kicks ass in games. does it beat a 3ghz prescott at 1600x1200 in games?? i think that would be no. you're limited by your gpu anyway so as long as you have something descent its the same speed.

Who gives a [-peep-] if it beats it at 1600x1200 last I checked for the last 10+ years almost every game out there has been static meshed. Increased resolution does not increase polygon count just pixel count. So why the hell do they benchmark CPU’s at such a resolution? Don’t know and don’t care game benchmarks aren’t something I use to base a purchase on.

Xeon

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July 18, 2004 4:57:55 PM

this is quite possibly the funniest thread ever. I would waste my time putting you newbs all straight, but some of the older / wiser forum members are doing so already.

Go Xeon, go Phail etc

Carry on! lol

<font color=blue>My dick is so big, that my dick has a dick. And my dicks' dick is bigger than yours.</font color=blue>
July 18, 2004 10:56:25 PM

That's a BSc, but a simple pimplefaced teen such as yourself, can see the logic in what I say. As to your oral fixation, and poor grammer skills?
July 18, 2004 11:14:50 PM

Sheesh and I thought Ford Vs. Chevy was bad!!!! This makes that dust up look positively tame. Reminds me when Ford was selling safety and Chevy was selling horsepower. Horsepower won until people realized horsepower in an unsafe car meant... death or dismemberment. Fightin' is in rounds. This round's AMD's. Intel's got too much pride and moola not to hit back. They'll be fighting till the apocalypse.

Da Worfster

If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.
July 18, 2004 11:23:22 PM

You got that right. I'm looking forward to the next round. Hope it comes sooner, rather than later.
July 19, 2004 3:06:35 AM

I luv you too.

Xeon

<font color=red>Post created with being a dickhead in mind.</font color=red>
<font color=white>For all emotional and slanderous statements contact THG for all law suits.</font color=white>
July 21, 2004 10:41:24 AM

>The Prescott is the real alternative for increased clock
>speeds

Oh you still believe the 10 GHz fabble, don't you ? Intel has learned, but you apparently haven't..

>Ho-ho let me say it then A64's 64bit extensions are useless
>and pointless.

Yeah indeed. As pointless as 32 bit extentions once where, and even more pointless as 16 bit extentions. Its all the developpers that gotten lazy, 1 MB adress space should be plenty for anything really... after all, there have been 16 bit games, browsers and TPC/IP stacks for win 3.x. Who needs 32 bit ? Its a marketing scam..

> The technology isn’t even enough to push on 64bit apps

LOL.. the single biggest benefactor of 64 bit address space is the OS. A 64 bit OS doubles your 32 bit application address space (and extends it to nearly infinity for 64 bit ones), solves kernel mapping issues with for instance videocards >512 MB. Obviously, there are no 64 bit OS's available or in the works are there ? Just two dozen Linux distro's, BSD's, Windows and Solaris. I guess that is nothing.. Can you name one relevant x86 OS that is not (being) ported ? OS/2 is the only one I can think off, with a market share of maybe 0.001%.

>At best this crap is going to go the way of MMX, SSE, SSE2,
>and SSE3 a simple extension. Oh did I mention they seem to
>have the same amount of registers as well.

You're obsessed with the addition of a few GPRs, which has nothing to do with the essence of extending the ISA. And if you think the number of SSE registers has anything to do with this, let me point you to the fact that AMD64 is a longer acronym than SSEx, and much longer than MMX, so surely its better. EM64T is just as long btw, so obviously intel recognizes its importantness too. Microsoft leads the pack with their 'x86 extended systems' talk, that is WAY longer than MMX. "hyperthreading" comes close though, I'll grant you that.

>Get over it buddy the technology is a mid ground for bigger
>and better technologies and no hybrid chip is going to be
>doing that.

doing what ?

>Don’t know and don’t care game benchmarks aren’t something
>I use to base a purchase on.

Nah, why would you.. after all your 286 with win 3.x is still serving you right, no ? Runs Leasure Suit Larry and Donkey Kong just fine.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
July 21, 2004 10:58:06 AM

>1) Firt came the Presshot
>2) Now comes the dodgy 775 socket

Ahem no..

1) first came the 8088, mother of all problems
2) then came the buggy 286
3) then came the 462 iAXP catastrophy, followed on by the i860 disaster
4) then came FDIV infected Pentium 60/66
5) All hail Convington (I think), the cacheless celeron dud
6) then came the dodgy Pentium 1.13 GHz
7) along came Rambus and the 820 caminogate
8) welcome the willamette dud, and the willamette + SDRAM speed deamons
9) meanwhile the Merced trainwreck unfolded
10) Prescott breaks all AMD records when it comes to redefining the meaning of the word "hot"
11) S775... i820 +RDRAM all over again (much more expensive, new acrynoms, new memory, no extra performance)

I'm sure I missed a few historical moments though, feel free to add, but Prescott wasn't the first sign on the wall :) 

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
July 21, 2004 4:01:26 PM

And yet despite all of this, Intel is still the market leader.

Chaps your ass, doesn't it? :wink:

The point is, if you're Intel, you can afford to make mistakes. If you're AMD, mistakes will be much more costly. Things will begin to change eventually, but for now Intel can still afford to screw up royally.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
July 21, 2004 4:38:04 PM

<<<<but a faster proc will always get you a few more FPS >>>>

that is just simply not true
July 21, 2004 6:05:23 PM

WELL DONE XEON! for that post. very true!
July 21, 2004 6:53:45 PM

Once again back to this Intel, AMD, debate:

Have you ever wondered what instruction set in Windows64, Intel and AMD are going to use?

Well, lets see...... Considering the AMD64 is the only true desktop 64bit chip Microsoft has decided
to use AMD's instruction sets!!

"Well, well, well........ so it seems that Microsoft, arguably one of the biggest bussinesses in the world
is happy using AMD's instruction sets, "And I thought there was no confidence in AMD....."

Looks like Intel is going to have to adopt AMD's programming.......... Damn....... wait.......Screw Intel.

"And by the way, I'm not a pimply teenager...!!"
July 21, 2004 7:58:08 PM

Intel doesn't HAVE to do ANYTHING. They don't even have to 'catch up' to AMD in terms of technology... that's what being a market leader gets you. The comfort of doing things your way when you want to do them. Once Intel starts seeing market share and revenues slip, they will be compelled to try and overtake AMD... right now they're just too comfortable.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
July 21, 2004 11:30:21 PM

> right now they're just too comfortable.

Yeah, so comfortable their stock has lost <A HREF="http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=6m&s=INTC&l=off&z=m&q=l..." target="_new"> <b>~40% of its value in just 6 months</b></A>. Maybe its time they started doing something again ?

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
July 22, 2004 2:24:23 AM

Quote:
Oh you still believe the 10 GHz fabble, don't you ? Intel has learned, but you apparently haven't.

Again do you have any evidence that says the Net Burst architecture won’t be able to reach 10 GHz? With future micron shrinks in the future and better more efficient designs I can't dare say Intel won’t be able to pull 10 GHz out of the silicon.

Quote:
Can you name one relevant x86 OS that is not (being) ported ?

Can you give me the numbers of consumers in possession of 64bit OS, systems, and software?

Quote:
so surely its better

Didn't say it was GPR are more programmable and always will be a better solution that specialized registers like SSE2. But the fact is I don’t see either AMD or Intel selling the 32bit to 64bit aspect as well as they did the 16bit to 32bit shift. The market is filled with IA-32 boxes, software companies are cutting back so the validity of a niche product being catered too less, and there is a entire industry dedicated to IA-32 extending it to 64bit might be a good step but you need to convince leery buyers which wont be easy.

Quote:
doing what ?

Being a viable technology replacement for IA-32.

Quote:
Nah, why would you.. after all your 286 with win 3.x is still serving you right

Sure my 286 hauled ass.

Quote:
Runs Leasure Suit Larry and Donkey Kong just fine.

Never played any of those games on that computer actually, I was more of a Wolfenstein Civilizations player if you must know.

Quote:
Yeah, so comfortable their stock has lost ~40% of its value in just 6 months. Maybe its time they started doing something again ?

It's done this before and it never spooked Intel executives up.

Xeon

<font color=red>Post created with being a dickhead in mind.</font color=red>
<font color=white>For all emotional and slanderous statements contact THG for all law suits.</font color=white>
July 22, 2004 6:24:32 AM

Wow Amd is up to 22.56? Last Sept it was selling under $15.
That looks like a 50% increase to me. I should have listened to Crashman, when he said to buy.
July 22, 2004 7:29:15 AM

But I never saw anyone claim "AMD doesnt need to do ANYTHING"..

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
July 22, 2004 8:14:26 AM

>Wow Amd is up to 22.56? Last Sept it was selling under $15.

Euh, no.. its around $12-13. Still better than the $3.5 it flirted with not so long ago.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
July 22, 2004 3:19:48 PM

Quote:
But I never saw anyone claim "AMD doesnt need to do ANYTHING"..


Well DUH! AMD isn't the market leader, are they? So they must work harder not only to maintain the share they have, but to also GAIN more marketshare.

It's like ATi and nVidia. ATi could have given all the features in their new gen cards that nVidia has in theirs... but they felt they didn't NEED to. They are comfortable in the position they're in right now.

Please explain why a company making billions has to 'catch up' to a company making millions. They don't. Once the fear sets in, I'm sure they will... but AMD hasn't quite put the fear of God into Intel yet.


<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
July 22, 2004 10:06:33 PM

>Well DUH! AMD isn't the market leader, are they? So they
>must work harder not only to maintain the share they have,
>but to also GAIN more marketshare.

Not really. intel has just as much pressure to provide shareholder value as AMD or any other company. If you own intel stock, you own the company, and if your stock drops dramatically, you are not happy.. if you are not happy, the companies board is in trouble.

>lease explain why a company making billions has to 'catch
>up' to a company making millions.

A company that makes billions is under pressure to keep making billions. Think Microsoft. It is valued what it is because share holders are used to fat profits, huge margins, nice dividents, etc.. No AMD stockholder expects AMD to outsell intel or something, most intel stockholders expect intel to keep posting those multi billion dollar profits. Intel can not "relax" just because it sits on a pile of money, they have to defend their market share/margins/profits just like any other company. Not that easy either when you have 80+% marketshare and 60+% gross margins.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
!