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New Setup! Mobo? Video card?...

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August 8, 2004 3:24:13 PM

It's that time again... I'm planning on building a new computer. I plan to use it for games as well as a lot video encoding.

I was currently considering a...
<b><font color=green>A64 3200+ on K8V with 1GB DDR400</b></font color=green>

I know that should be much faster than my current dual P3 933Mhz... My only concern is that the P4 3.0C can offer better video encoding performance... And HT for crazy multitasking, which I have come to love with a dual CPU... However, I finally made my mind: what the hell, Doom 3 is also a factor in my purchasing decision, and A64 rocks in it!!! Then there's cool'n'quiet (can't stand two cpus and TWO FANS anymore) and 64-bits...

However: is the A8V Deluxe good? It's also more expensive than, say, a <b>P4P800-SE for a 3.0C</b>; I could then ramp up to 3.2C. The added RAID functionality is of little interest to me... Any suggestions? Please?... (I like ASUS, for instance, but they seem to have too few S939 options)

Plus, there's another thing I wanted to get straight: video card. I was planning on a <b>GFX 6800 GT</b>, understandably, but I wanted to know if GT-based cards will sport video in functionality (and in what form). I researched the web, and from what I found, I understand that there's VIVO functionality in the 6800 series - that's <b>v</b>ideo <b>i</b>n <b>v</b>ideo <b>o</b>ut... But I also found that even so, even 6800 Ultras don't have video ins.

...which is something I find kind of sad, because in the good old days of the GeForce4 Ti, the 4400 and 4600 had video ins... And plus, I'd love to get the ATI Remote Wonder II, but that's another thing entirely...

Could anyone help me out here please?...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 08:27 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

More about : setup mobo video card

August 8, 2004 3:35:31 PM

I don't think it matters which platform you go with if you're looking at a 6800GT. You'll probably hit 60K in Aquamark3 at stock speeds. For a 939 platform look at MSI's Neo Platinum also. An A64-3500 or a P4-3.0 @ 3.5ghz looks real nice to me. :smile:

Abit IS7 - 2.8C @ 3.4 - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
Samsung 120gb ATA-100 - Maxtor 40gb ATA - 100
Sony DRU-510A - THAT'S MORE LIKE IT!
August 8, 2004 3:45:37 PM

I didn't truly think that it would make an enourmous difference (P4/A64) either...

But these Platinums or Deluxes all have RAID functionality which I'm not going to implement. Isn't there a cheaper alternative? For instance, the P4P800-SE is perfectly suited for me: no RAID, pricing around $85...

I suppose I could go with spending around 125~135. If I were to do so, however, I'd prefer to go with the ASUS Deluxe one... I kinda feel at home with asus.

I don't usually overclock, but I am open to new ideas. I'll consider it too...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 02:49 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
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August 8, 2004 3:49:37 PM

Well if you're not going strictly gaming, then socket754's out, so it's between Northwood P4 and S939 A64. If you ask me i'd go with the P4, simply because it's cheaper and it's a proven technology, what i mean is that there's a huge selection of mobo for it, while 939 your choice of mobo is very very limited.

You could go with a P4 3.0C along with some PC3700 ram, 15x233 is just about 3.5Ghz, but i'm sure most PC3700 go beyond their rated frequencies.

For motherboard my favourite would be the Abit IC7 Max 3, for me it was sweet, with a 2.4C it reached 300FSB instantly, without any kind of modification to the board. And of course the board allows 3.2 Vdimm:D 

As for the VIVO functionality, i think that's just an add-on chip, with 3rd manufactures could decide whether they want to have that function or not.

Don't listen to anything Kanavit says, because he's a limped dick Intel loving pussy.

<A HREF="http://www.ebaumsworld.com/epilepsyr.shtml" target="_new">DON'T CLICK HERE!!</A>
August 8, 2004 3:53:16 PM

Thanks for the reply.
Quote:
while 939 your choice of mobo is very very limited.

I've noticed. It's just that it's quite an admirable platform... I do understand that the 3.0C is tried-and-true technology... Which is why I might end up with a 3.2C on IC7 (or P4P800-SE) (you can take your pick from a a gazillion mobos with the P4!) I'm still deciding on the AMD vs Intel issue...
Quote:

As for the VIVO functionality, i think that's just an add-on chip, with 3rd manufactures could decide whether they want to have that function or not.

I wonder if someone was wise enough to include it? I'll look for it...
Quote:

Don't listen to anything Kanavit says, because he's a limped dick Intel loving pussy.

I know. :smile:

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 02:54 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 8, 2004 3:57:58 PM

Well i just hope the 6800 series isn't gonna be like the 5900, oh god the model numbers, pv, epv, se, xt, ext, ultra, and a trillion other ones, the cheaper ones were strip downs, so no Vivo, normally you pay about a 10 dollars extra for the Vivo card, at least that was the case with the 5900 series.

Don't listen to anything Kanavit says, because he's a limped dick Intel loving pussy.

<A HREF="http://www.ebaumsworld.com/epilepsyr.shtml" target="_new">DON'T CLICK HERE!!</A>
August 8, 2004 4:04:29 PM

Now that you've mentioned it, I could go with the 2.8C or so... and get some extra features. Better speakers, 17' Flat CRT from samsung, and so on.

Hm, which sound card should I choose? And a reasonably priced one at that?

After all, sometimes we tend to exaggerate on the importance of a few percent performance and downplay the extra features we could get...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 03:05 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 8, 2004 4:06:36 PM

That might be a good idea, get a 2.8C with generic ram and use 5:4 divider to overclock maybe. Then get a 19" CRT, because 17's horrible. 19" from KDS are now less than 150CAD, so let's say it's around 110-120US? 5.1 Speakers would also be nice to have, but if anything i'd definently get a 19" monitor first.

Don't listen to anything Kanavit says, because he's a limped dick Intel loving pussy.

<A HREF="http://www.ebaumsworld.com/epilepsyr.shtml" target="_new">DON'T CLICK HERE!!</A>
August 8, 2004 5:15:27 PM

A lot of manufacturers have jumped on the Via envy 7.1 audio chip. Check out the PCI card gainward makes, it's only $45'ish and is pretty full blown in quality for it's price. Lots of others seem to reccomend the venerable but slowly aging Turtle Beach Voyetra card (spelling?). I forget the correct name, it's been so long since i've seen one of those cards.

Now I remember, it's the Santa Cruz

:cool: I run my AthlonXfx at 7.65 Exahertz :cool: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Quetzacoatl on 08/08/04 01:15 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 8, 2004 5:19:02 PM

I'd go with A64.

<font color=blue>AthlonXP-M 2500+(12x200)</font color=blue>
<font color=green>Abit NF7-S</font color=green>
<font color=red>Kingston DDR400 2x256Mb</font color=red>
August 8, 2004 8:35:39 PM

Thanks for all the replies.

<b>scottchen:</b> I think using anything above 1024x768 on a 17" isn't that good an idea too... Maybe I'll consider a 19", then. 5.1 Speakers are also high on my features list, you're right about that! But monitor goes first, agreed.

<b>Quetzacoatl:</b> Thanks for the suggestion; I was considering a Creative SB Audigy 2 (6.1)... I'll look into other possibilities, but the basic Audigy 2 6.1 solution is $55 or so...
<i>New: Looked for it, and found the VOYETRA TURTLE BEACH SANTA CRUZ for less than $50. Are those really good? I'll consider those...</i>

<b>blackphoenix77:</b> I know, I'm tempted to go with the A64, but the mobos available for socket 939 are few and far between. They're fully-fledged high-end products and are mostly more expensive... I'm still a bit puzzled as for which platform to choose.

I'll give a rundown of my two comparable-priced options from Intel and AMD in a future post. Bear in mind that I might do a considerable amount of video encoding... for which P4Cs are great... However, I'll also do gaming. All in all, overall, A64 will probably be a bit faster, I know. "a bit faster" isn't the only issue to consider...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 07:37 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 8, 2004 8:56:20 PM

Options...

<font color=blue>P4 3.0C ($200)
Asus P4P800-SE ($85)
1GB DDR400 ($110)</font color=blue>
Total: <b>$395</b>

<font color=green>A64 3000+ S754 ($160)
Asus K8V ($100)
1GB DDR400 ($110)</font color=green>
Total: <b>$370</b>

<font color=green>A64 3500+ S939 ($346)
Asus A8V Deluxe ($135)
1GB DDR400 ($110)</font color=green>
Total: <b>$480</b>

Other parts include:
<b>GFX 6800 GT 256MB memory ($380)</b>

And at least a 17" monitor, maybe 19". Also considering a sound card for not much more than, say, $50, and reasonably good speakers, possibly 5.1, if I can spare the money to do so... I'm guessing the 3500+ is of course the best choice, but its price also makes it not so accessible... If PCIe video cards could be found, I could consider the <A HREF="http://www.asus.com/products/mb/socket478/p4gd1/overvie..." target="_new">P4GD1</A>, which is a S478 915P-based mobo with <i>azalia audio</i> and DDR400...

Should I try going with S754?...

I'm also looking into going with a 2.8C P4 because that would probably make the difference in affording better parts for the rest of the system. Like 5.1 speakers and 19" monitor... This is also a good alternative.

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 08:02 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 8, 2004 9:03:45 PM

I guess Asus brainwashed you ehe?

I'd go with option C and just cancel the sound card, after seeing these prices. Just go with a 19" monitor, if budget allows a set of 5.1 speakers. I mean the 3500+ is a nice CPU and socket 939 kicks ass. The A8V has decent onboard sound.


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August 8, 2004 9:24:16 PM

Thanks... I'll have to check on just how much money I have.

Plus, since I'm not from the US, I have some problem with import taxes... Through official channels, I end up paying twice what would be expected from currency conversion alone... So it's not easy to buy the latest tech.

I've tried to find out if there is a 6800GT with video in, but couldn't do so. I found a X800 XT, a X800 Pro, and so on, but can't seem to find a 6800, 6800GT or 6800 Ultra with video in functionality... Maybe I'll get another card for that... like a TV Wonder Remote Control Edition from Radeon....... It seems a bit silly though... I'll mix ATi with Nvidia and end up spending around $450+ on video functions alone! This is bad... The computer will be in my bedroom, that's why a remote would be a good idea. But if I were to find a 6800GT with video in, I could settle for no remote...

I could also get an ATi card, but the GT is great for Doom 3. And it has all 16 pipelines active, like the 6800U... The alternative would be a X800 Pro. Oh boy, so many choices...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 09:06 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 8, 2004 10:18:37 PM

I think the 6800GT is a better buy than the X800Pro, but that's just my opinion. I personally have a MSI Tv Tuner it works great, and it has little remote, you can get one off of ebay for about 30-40US.


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August 8, 2004 10:22:04 PM

Mephistopheles the choice for cpu, it's up to you. I would of course get a 3.2E prescott or 3.0e. Prescott is newer than old northwood core and same price, it comes with PNI (13 new instructions), SSE3, 1mb L2 cache, 16kb L1, and enhanced hyperthreading.

Remember, AMD A64 3000+ only has 512kb L2 cache, has No hyperthreading, NO SSE3, NO dual channel support, NO 64-bit OS, so what exactly are you paying for??? Higher IPC, and good gaming potential. Also, please remember, we aren't even sure how long s754 will last as a platform, AMD may discontinue this socket in favor of cheaper s939, and you may lose out on PCIe, DDR2!!

While INtel has made i865 with s775, i915 with s478. Intel has never abandoned their consumers and left them to dry, they always provided upgrade path. While AMD on the other hand introduced x86-64 and pretty much ended s462.

In short term , AMD may give you better results. But Intel will last longer in the long run. Something you should consider. The P4 should outperform A64 in video and audio encoding because the A64 has about a 1ghz deficit, and can't keep up with the P4 in this area. A64 may help boost gaming over the P4 by 10%-12%, however does that justify all that the A64 LACKS?? TO me, the answer is NO!

For Graphics card, the answer is obvious . the 6800 GT hands down winner here. SM 3.0, 16 pipes, 222 million transistors, DX 9.0C. This piece will make your system a 'Gaming' system. Games supporting sm 3.0; Doom3, Unreal 3, STALKER, Madden NFL 2005, Farcry, tons more!

When you invest money into a system, make sure you spread out your needs evenly, and not thow all your eggs in one basket.

------
Prescott 3.2E 1MB L2 HT
1GB PC 3200 Dual channel(PAT)
Asus P4P800 Bios 1016
PNY Geforce 6800 GT 256MB DDR3
60,823 Aquamarks
August 8, 2004 10:31:03 PM

Quote:
When you invest money into a system, make sure you spread out your needs evenly, and not thow all your eggs in one basket.

You're right, Kanavit! However, I might end up trying the 3500+ instead (s939 alright).

As for the GT being the best option, it's mostly OpenGL-driven. Now ATi was too lazy to implement a decent OpenGL driver, I think I'll go with GT, and buy a video-in card. If the difference in Doom 3 wasn't so big, I'd consider a X800 Pro with video in, but it is, so I'll get a video-in card (PCI). Preferably one with a remote.

Current costs... s939 3500+, A8V Deluxe, 1GB DDR400, 6800 GT, Remote Wonder: $893. Not bad, all things considered. Add to that hard drive, monitor, case, power supply, and so on...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 09:34 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 8, 2004 10:36:39 PM

Yea, s939 is definitely better than s754 atm. Too bad s939 cpus are expensive, but the price should have dropped down some.

I love my PNY verto Geforce 6800 GT atm. 256mb DDR3 is very awesome for new games like Doom3 and Farcry. I might test out doom3 by the end of the weak.

------
Prescott 3.2E 1MB L2 HT
1GB PC 3200 Dual channel(PAT)
Asus P4P800 Bios 1016
PNY Geforce 6800 GT 256MB DDR3
60,823 Aquamarks
August 8, 2004 11:39:42 PM

I wouldn't be affraid to go with socket 754, no matter what kanavit said. Socket 462 is quite old now (was there in the time of intel socket370) and is going to disappear soon. Socket 754 will be there for quite some years as it will be the platform for low end sempron processor(amd64 without the 64 bits extension). socket 939 will be for higher specs machines. As for saying that AMD let their consumers down by switching socket, he surely forgot how intel let their customers down when they switch from socket 370 to 423 and later to 478 when they realize that their new P4 processor were a joke and couldnt hold their own against newer Athlon XP. So much for an upgrade path for people that wanted to upgrade their brand new 423 board with newer, faster P4 processor...


Socket 754 simply doesnt have the dual channel capability of socket939. Highest socket 754 cpu now is the 3700+, which should be sufficient for years to come. As for ddr2 and pci-e, dont worry, when they will be mainstream, read in 2-3 years, chipset maker like via, sis, nvidia,... will jump in. the need is simply not there, just as Intel is not in a rush to jump in 64 bits processors. And newer instructions in intel cpu are useless as now as none or only a few software use them. Just like 64 bits extensions. At least, with 64 bits and a beta Win xp 64 with beta 64 bits drivers give you something else to play with if installed on a separate hdd to make sure you dont mess your good installation... As for video editing, well the gap is closing rapidly.

But socket 939 is the best right now. And your 3500+ should last you long time. As well as your video card. But I would get faster memory...just in case you decide to play with overclocking. Instead of the remote wonder, I would get the tv wonder pro 2 that come with the remote and coupled with your 6800 could give you tv and vivo.

A socket 745 board with a 3400+ with 512k cache could be a good option too, saving you a couple of buck to get the tvwonder and a good sound card to have a good gaming rig as well as a good performing computer and home theater that will last you long time too.

Just my 2 cents.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
August 9, 2004 12:08:25 AM

Quote:
Mephistopheles the choice for cpu, it's up to you. I would of course get a 3.2E prescott or 3.0e. Prescott is newer than old northwood core and same price, it comes with PNI (13 new instructions), SSE3, 1mb L2 cache, 16kb L1, and enhanced hyperthreading.


Kanavit im starting to agree with Scottchen.

Prescott is a newer core, but its slower. WHAT PART OF THAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND. You seem to like the "1mb L2cache, 16kb L1" "SSE3" "enhanced hyperthreading" catch phrases. THE CACHE WAS INCREASED SO THAT IT WOUDLTN SUCK. IT NEEDS IT. ITS NOT AN ADDED "FEATURE". THE P4C ONLY NEEDS 512K, AND ITS STILL GENERALLY FASTER. IT DOESNT MATTER HOW MUCH CACHE A CPU HAS, ITS THE END PERFORMANCE THAT MATTERS. btw you have already been told that SSE3 isnt that great of an improvement at all.

Quote:
Remember, AMD A64 3000+ only has 512kb L2 cache, has No hyperthreading, NO SSE3, NO dual channel support, NO 64-bit OS, so what exactly are you paying for??? Higher IPC, and good gaming potential. Also, please remember, we aren't even sure how long s754 will last as a platform, AMD may discontinue this socket in favor of cheaper s939, and you may lose out on PCIe, DDR2!!


it only has 512kb cache because it doesnt need more to be competitive. its memory controller makes up for it. thats also why it doesnt have dual channel right now, because the memory controller is efficient enough to feed the cpu with only one channel. theres no point in wasting die space and increasing heat if its not needed. again, it does nto matter how much cache a cpu has, what you have to consider is the end perforamnce.

Quote:
While INtel has made i865 with s775, i915 with s478. Intel has never abandoned their consumers and left them to dry, they always provided upgrade path. While AMD on the other hand introduced x86-64 and pretty much ended s462.


and quit talking about AMD discontinueing socketA, they haev just released a new CPU for it! and its not like Intel hasnt discontinued sockets in teh past. how long did socket423 last? what happend to those Intel customers? s.o.l. meanwhile socketA has been around for years, from the first 600mhz Durons to current mobile AthlonXPs/Semprons. in fact, i think its the longest lived platform yet

theres no way there wont be PCIe motherboards for AMD platform. and DDR2 doesnt offer any performance gains at the clock speeds its currently being released at. proven fact.

Quote:
In short term , AMD may give you better results. But Intel will last longer in the long run. Something you should consider. The P4 should outperform A64 in video and audio encoding because the A64 has about a 1ghz deficit, and can't keep up with the P4 in this area. A64 may help boost gaming over the P4 by 10%-12%, however does that justify all that the A64 LACKS?? TO me, the answer is NO!


Short term? you can tell the future? my mothers 1gh Duron that i built 4 years ago is still a damn fast Email/Internet computer. my 1700+ is still playign games just fine in my brothers room that i built 2 years ago. and for things other than games, its more than fast enough.

your MHZ statment also proves how ignorant you are. you mention IPC, but you still think that MHZ is important? common dude you are clueless, you are spreading FUD. we keep repeatedly telling you , but you dont seem to learn.


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August 9, 2004 12:29:15 AM

1GB DDR400 ($110)
__________________________________________________________


Is some illegal alien sorting these chips in a kitchen? Where do you get 2 X 512mb of good ram for $110.00? :smile:

Abit IS7 - 2.8C @ 3.4 - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
Samsung 120gb ATA-100 - Maxtor 40gb ATA - 100
Sony DRU-510A - THAT'S MORE LIKE IT!
August 9, 2004 12:57:49 AM

I'd go intel rig right now only becuase of the motherboard selection. Although the A64 has proved to be a top notch gaming machine. With my 2.6c i haven't realized the difference in any apps i use in comparing to my 2500+@3200+ athlon. So i don't have any way to say HT is good for this or that.

I do a lot of mapping for ut2k3 ut2k4 and i'm starting doom3. Neither system seems to work any better than the other. And i'd definately go Flat CRT, i hate my flat LCD monitor. 600 dollars for it and it blows compared to a 230 dollar CRT.

The only thing video card wise i can say is 6800 looks great, although once again on the newer games i can't really see it being anything special.
I almost want to tell you to wait. But we all know what waiting does.. Lead to more waiting.

Oh yea, NO LESS THAN A GIG OF RAM!

<A HREF="http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=277124623" target="_new">http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=277124623...;/A>
46,510 , movin on up. 48k new goal. Maybe not.. :/ 
August 9, 2004 1:26:16 AM

well christ! there will be like 4 people in a row that will totally flame him and prove him totally wrong. then he will just repeat himself like a broken record in another thread, as if he didnt even regard what anyone told him..

i think i AM gonna update my sig LOL
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August 9, 2004 1:43:00 AM

well you have some tough choices, i can see that.

if you can afford any of those options, i would lean towards the s939 ahtlon 64 system. performance wise, evne in encoding, the p4 3.0 versus the ahtlon 64 3500+ will be very close, and i doubt the p4 at 3ghz could outperform the 3500+ evne in video encoding. if oyu see numbers to the contrary, then so be it, but i havent seen any to say that. of course it also matters what apps youll be using, some might give evne the p4 3ghz a slight edge, but not much. now upgrade wise, think of what youll be able to upgrade to on s939 versus the p4 system. now only are you looking at beyond 4000+, youll also get a dual core option next year. for myself, thats what sold me becuase thats quite a lot of longevity for a system. you cant say that for the p4 system, even lg755 isnt a sure bet as far as being pin compatible with dual core.

with all your criteria, id say s939 will give you the longest performance cycle before having to change up the whole system.
August 9, 2004 2:01:35 AM

all of this will depend on what microsoft is gonna do next with Windows Longhorn, and Windows 64-bit edition for extended systems. That's the thing, while we wait for Microsoft, buying a system now and trying to keep up with technology is going to be tricky. A sure thing would be going for intel based system, thats a safer route, because you know for sure that software will support that architecture.

It comes down to personal preference i think. both processors are good , just different approaches. It's just that intel is a much larger company than AMD, and has great influence over technology standards. Usually everyone involved will cater to the biggest company, software, games. AMD's advantage has always been value and performance, but it seems you only get performance nowadays, since the A64 3500+ cost more than a 3.2 P4.

------
Prescott 3.2E 1MB L2 HT
1GB PC 3200 Dual channel(PAT)
Asus P4P800 Bios 1016
PNY Geforce 6800 GT 256MB DDR3
60,823 Aquamarks
August 9, 2004 2:32:32 AM

How are the taxes on gifts? Perhaps, for a small fee, one of the forum members who live in the States could send you a "present".
Crashman comes to mind, though I wouldn't even ask, if a via chipset were involved.
August 9, 2004 2:41:47 AM

well um i dont see what that has to do wiht my points, i never even mentioned x86-64, i dont evne liek to make that a huge deal for buying into an ahtlon 64. it wont matter what ms does, all of those things that i said are true, amd will have a long upgrade path on s939.

if oyu want to bring 64bit into the mix, i dont see how ms choices favor amd or intel, since now that boht offer 64bit, both wil be on equal footing when ms gets an os out, then we will see whihc one did a more commplete job at the onset.

what techonologies are you refering to when you say technology standards? what is amd doing that would not be supported by the industry? if aigan your refering to amd64, its already happend and will continue to grow, sure itll be slower then most owuld like, but it iwll grow. besides that, there isnt anyhting else that would not be implemented.
August 9, 2004 3:04:40 AM

I'm seriously considering getting the 6800GT through some of those "gifts" you mentioned. I mean, come on, taxes that <i>double the prices</i> of the components I buy, on top of currency exchange ratios? Nasty government...

So I'd consider getting the video card and possibly the tv wonder through one of those channels. Going with, say, a 2.8C or 3.0C will probably be possible, but A64 3500+, as tempting as it sounds, will require a LOT more money here...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/09/04 02:05 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 9, 2004 3:05:48 AM

3.0c will be more than enough for anything you do

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Don't listen to anything Kanavit says, because he's a limped dick Intel loving pussy.
August 9, 2004 3:07:14 AM

Quote:

I think the 6800GT is a better buy than the X800Pro, but that's just my opinion. I personally have a MSI Tv Tuner it works great, and it has little remote, you can get one off of ebay for about 30-40US.

I missed that post, that's exactly what I'm planning on doing!

Thanks for all your help, everybody. I'm waiting on the 22nd August price cuts... From either Intel or AMD....

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i>
August 9, 2004 3:07:51 AM

6800gt is gonna be aewsome man :D 


w00t

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<A HREF="http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/you.html" target="_new">please dont click here! </A>

Don't listen to anything Kanavit says, because he's a limped dick Intel loving pussy.
August 9, 2004 3:37:42 AM

Are you going to be playing HL2 as well? Seems the X800 will out perform the 6800 by 30% in that game.
The nvidia may perform better in open Gl but the Ati card will clean up in direct 3D.
If you want to go 754, you might think about the Asus K8N-E Deluxe. It has the nforce3 250gb chipset, and is by Asus.
August 9, 2004 3:59:51 AM

Spending extra money for socket 939 doesn't make sense, since you don't upgrade often. Your new system will take a long time to get backdated and then both current socket 939 and 754 mobos won't remain attractive for upgrade.

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<A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86" target="_new">My Website</A>

<A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86/myrig.html" target="_new">My Rig</A> & <A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86/benchmark.html" target="_new">3DMark score</A>
August 9, 2004 1:19:23 PM

'since the A64 3500+ cost more than a 3.2 P4'

But much less that the 3.4, which is the chip that it is targetted at. What about that the P4 3.2 cost more than the A642800+....Does that make the 3.2 expensive?

I dont understand why Intel is a safer route? Back in '93, I had an AMD 486 CPU ...and AMD still there running today's apps. Microsoft works with AMD to define 64 bits set, so, I'm not really worried about support.

Dont be mistaken, you have a nice setup. You dont have to be ashamed and it is ok to promote it. But not the way you do it. Saying that AMD may not be there in 5 years in a supposition, not a facts! Give the facts!

You just have to say that you like your rig. It is running stable, and give me good score with Aquamark. Setting up was easy, and ....bla bla bla...

In other words, promote your rig, dont demote other's one.



-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
August 9, 2004 3:08:52 PM

While some of your points still dont add up and some of it doesnt make sens at all, your now exposing some good points. I still have fun reading your psot
Quote:
222 million transistors

You love marketing numbers dont ya =Þ

Forgot to mention Prescott has two times more logic transistor than the NorthWood!

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, Leadtek FX5900 w/ FX5950U bios@500/1000, 2X30gig Raid0
August 9, 2004 3:23:34 PM

Quote:
Spending extra money for socket 939 doesn't make sense, since you don't upgrade often.

Hm, you're right, I don't often upgrade.

Right now, I'm thinking I probably won't manage the 3500+.

So I'm somewhat tempted to go with a good s754 mobo, or a good s478 mobo, and put in something like a 3.0C or 3200+. Forget s939. In any case, upgrading processor alone is only an acceptable idea (from my point of view) for something like 6-12 months; more than that and your mobo is bound to be outdated. You're right.

What about the ASUS K8V? If I can get that, I'll probably spare some money... Hm, that would mean that I'll probably need a dedicated sound card... Is that nForce3 integrated firewall any good?

What about <b>DVD recorders?</b> Are these worth it?...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/09/04 03:20 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 9, 2004 4:39:49 PM

well if you want save money on the s754 side, you could always go with a chaintech vnf3 mobo. its about $80 and its still a good board. it may nto have a bunch of bells and whistles, but itll certainly work for you till your next upgrade. as far as the k8v goes, ive installed probably 20-30 of these and so far i only had a couple i had ot rma, those were early revisitions with the bad capacitors, and they have performed to spec. of course with either the k8v or vnf3, youd need a dedicated sound card if you want top notch sound.

as far as dvd burner, id suggest one of these two choices:
BenQ DW822A Plus 8x dvd-r/+r 4x dvd-rw/+rw
NEC ND-2510A 8x DVD+R/-R, 4x DVD+RW/-RW, 2.4x DL DVD+R

both are around the same price, $80, so id lean to the new drive, which is the one i bought. not only does it run at the same speed at the benq model, but it also offers dual layer capability, which is something i wanted. even if the media isnt easy to get yet, when it is, ill be ready. until then its a great drive anyway for single layer dvd recording.
August 9, 2004 4:49:12 PM

Hm, sorry i've not been keeping up with the threat, and yeah, as some people said, even the onboard sound nowadays is pretty decent, almost as good as if not better than some discreet $40-60 sound cards.

If you don't upgrade, you might as well get one single proc/motherboard you like and stick with it, especially if you don't plan on fiddling with overclocking.

I'm half tempted to get an i925x motherboard and P4 2.8, simply because they've reached such a huge equity with the i865/875 boards. I've literally seen full blown i925x boards for $120 that have an ATA port and 4-8 SATA ports, stupidly high amounts of USB and Firewire, and plenty of fun extras. I'd just be wary of getting DDR2 at this point in time. And while the Prescott *does* run hot, $160'ish for a 2.8 isn't bad, and that has a decent overclocking potential (3.4-3.6ghz perhaps, on a good air cooler). Worst case scenario, it runs at 2.8ghz, maybe a bit more, but it's future proof, has PCI-e and the other shebang.

Still, the 250gb chipset is pretty spiffy, onboord firewall, bumped up HT, more features for the money. K8V is pretty good motherboard, the Abit A8V is also a nice choice. The firewall is great, i've a friend that used that soley (no software based) and he has had no issues yet behind a broadband connection. Chipset level, so i'd doubt it'd fail. Kinda like the NX bit the A64 and P4 are using now, doubtful that it would fail if it's implemented correctly.

Same with DVD recorders on price equity. You can get a dual-format one for $60-80 and still get the benefits of 8x or 12x DVD writing, and mostly full CD writing. Plus you get the DVD reading too. Good buy if you ask me, and it's not difficult to find DVD-R's or DVD-RW's these days.

:cool: I run my AthlonXfx at 7.65 Exahertz :cool:
August 9, 2004 7:11:55 PM

Quote:
I personally have a MSI Tv Tuner it works great, and it has little remote, you can get one off of ebay for about 30-40US.

Would you qualify the remote as being of very high importance? I just found that AOPEN has an <A HREF="http://english.aopen.com.tw/products/vga/default.htm" target="_new">Aelos 6800GT</A> that has video-in! It's not on "capture", but if you open the page for that GT, it <i>has</i> a video in connector.

I wonder if the remote is truly THAT important? I mean, a full-blown remote wonder from Ati costs around $40-50, and that's just the remote!

If I can find a GT with video-in, I'll probably find a way to go without a remote...

Speaking of which, I think that I'll probably (and unfortunately) have to put this purchase on hold for a few weeks... Something like 1 or two months still... but not more.

Thanks, everyone, for your help.

I wonder if the CPU scenario will change? I expect more GT cards with video-in by then...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/09/04 06:14 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 9, 2004 7:44:27 PM

well i think your choices will only get harder if your going to be waiting 1-2 months. wiht the nforce 4 slated to come in that time, not only will it be a big option for the s939 ahtlon, but it will also lead to cheaper s939 chips, combine that with amd's 90nm release that is to come anytime within the next month. you may be switching back to s939 by then.
August 9, 2004 7:54:03 PM

<b>Are you sure that 90nm athlons</b> are due within a month???

I checked on that nForce4, and while it looks good, it's due only by the end of the year!... I'll check again....

That sounds great, but a bit too unbelievable! I'd love to get a nForce4 with a cheap 90nm athlon, but that ain't happening until 2005!

I'll have to wait anyway...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/09/04 07:12 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
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