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64 bit performance

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August 13, 2004 7:59:18 AM

I'm currently wrting an article for a local dead tree game magazine (PCGameplay for all Dutch/Belgian readers) on 64 bit computing. For this article, i'm looking for some 32/64 bit benchmar comparisons. I know these are rare to come buy, but any link anyone could provide would help me out big time.

thx !

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

More about : bit performance

August 13, 2004 11:02:35 AM

What you mean with local dead tree ??
PCGP is the best read i know, i love it !
Great to know you work for them :) 

Maybe you find something interesting in here : <A HREF="http://www.tweakers.net/nieuws/33827 " target="_new">http://www.tweakers.net/nieuws/33827 </A>
<A HREF="http:// http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2163 " target="_new">http:// http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2163 </A>
They also use benchmarks for 64 bit.

Nice day further.


Toms Hardware Site is a joke !
Looks like intel spent more on bribing reviewers to cover up it aint that great than they did in R&D, you know what im talking about Tom !
August 13, 2004 11:26:38 AM

>What you mean with local dead tree ??

Paper magazine.. (as opposed to online) To produce paper, you need wood, therefore dead trees :) 

>PCGP is the best read i know, i love it !

So your're from belgium or holland ?

>Great to know you work for them :) 

Will be my first article (september issue). expect some more on things like PCI-E and overclocking later this year as well as some actual hardware reviews if I can spare the time

As for the links, thx, but neither really helps my cause, since neither compares performance of the same sources compiled in 32 and 64 bit binaries :( 

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
Related resources
August 13, 2004 12:37:59 PM

You might try to do it yourself!!!

Install Linux 32 and 64 bit and compile some apps in 32 and 64bit... This is quite a job, but this would be very interesting!

--
A7N8X / <font color=green><b>AMD Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green>
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Radeon 8500 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290
August 13, 2004 1:08:57 PM

I don't have the knowledge in Linux of compiler flags to make sure I don't mess up >10x as badly as Anandtech did initially, and since its a paper magazine, I won't be able to update/correct the article a couple of days later based on user feedback either :) 

Still, it may not be a bad idea for in the future, publishing it online first, gathering enough feedback to ensure I didnt completely f*ck up (or if I did, improve it), and then printing it... I won't have the time this time though, deadline is next week or so.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
August 13, 2004 1:59:51 PM

Quote:
I don't have the knowledge in Linux of compiler flags to make sure I don't mess up >10x as badly as Anandtech did initially, and since its a paper magazine, I won't be able to update/correct the article a couple of days later based on user feedback either :) 

Still, it may not be a bad idea for in the future, publishing it online first, gathering enough feedback to ensure I didnt completely f*ck up (or if I did, improve it), and then printing it... I won't have the time this time though, deadline is next week or so.

Clearly you know as much about publishing as you do about computers.

Most paper publications (or even electronic ones that charge people) will not accept freely-distributed electronic publishings because you can no longer grant them first rights. (And many times electronic rights and first rights are even specifically tied together in a contract for just such a reason.) Pretty much no publication will even touch a reprint while anyone else has rights to publish your works. Besides greatly devaluing the content it's also usually a breach of contract to whomever already published it <i>and</i> a significant contract re-write for the reprint publisher even if it isn't a breach.

<pre><b><font color=red>"Build a man a fire and he's warm for the rest of the evening.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life." - Steve Taylor</font color=red></b></pre><p>
August 13, 2004 3:21:47 PM

Who the hell says I'd publish the entire article online first ? Obviously the idea would be to publish methodology and benchmark results online (like on Aces' forum), and use just (part of) the results in an article intended for an entirely different audience. There are no contractual issues involved in this AT ALL, (I've read my contract, have you ?)

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
August 13, 2004 3:24:40 PM

I've read your contract....Its not bad, it allows a little freedom, but if you read the fine print of the fine print you signed your soul to me.
So far you have been lucky, i haven't needed anything from you. But someday i will....and you better come through on my demands!!

What do you call a group of midgets? A pack, gaggle, a pride, or maybe just a murder?
August 13, 2004 6:12:58 PM

Quote:
Who the hell says I'd publish the entire article online first ? Obviously the idea would be to publish methodology and benchmark results online (like on Aces' forum), and use just (part of) the results in an article intended for an entirely different audience. There are no contractual issues involved in this AT ALL, (I've read my contract, have you ?)

Hey, <i>if</i> you have a contract that allows you to do that (highly unlikely, but not impossible) then go for it. But that would be an incredible rarity in the publishing world, and usually a rarity only offered by unprofessional publishers at that. So I'd highly suggest making sure that you really are right about your contract before you go and do it.

And if I hadn't read my contracts do you really think that I'd know enough to even make these points in the first place? God you say the dumbest things sometimes.

<pre><b><font color=red>"Build a man a fire and he's warm for the rest of the evening.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life." - Steve Taylor</font color=red></b></pre><p>
August 13, 2004 7:00:32 PM

slvr_phoenix you need to chill out relax a little. (although I am one to talk)

As to you p4man I'd love to see the results. I do think you should try it on your own. Talk to amd intel relation ask for some help in order to optomize for their cpu. Tell them you will be doing the test anyway and want to make sure each cpu gets fair treatment. It would be in each companies best interest to make sure their cpu was setup correctly.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
August 13, 2004 7:24:03 PM

> I do think you should try it on your own. Talk to amd
>intel relation ask for some help in order to optomize for
>their cpu.

No, I don't think I will, not without expert help. i know what I know, and what I don't know. Properly installing/tweaking Linux, and in depth compiling/benchmarking is just not my expertise at all, I never got much beyond installing Mandrake and I still have a hard time configuring just the videodrivers for dual head use. I don't think I will burn my fingers trying something as ambitious as this. But I've got a better idea to get those benchies anyway, with expert help, I'll post later when I can confirm.


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
August 13, 2004 7:36:08 PM

Here it is, for your reading pleasure
Quote:

is het volgende overeengekomen
* Alle bijdragen geleverd door de medewerker aan PC GamePlay magazine gebeuren volledig op freelance basis: er bestaat geen werkgever-werknemer
relatie tussen PC Gameplay magazine en de medewerker. De medewerking gebeurt bovendien op ‘vrijwillige basis’, de medewerker kan op elk
moment opdrachten weigeren indien deze hem niet uitkomen. Er is een vaste vergoeding voorzien van xxx€ /blz (1blz= 1100 woorden) voor de
geschreven reviews. De lengte van een verslag wordt bepaald op basis van het artikel zoals dat daadwerkelijk gepubliceerd wordt (een artikel kan worden
ingekort en aangepast door de redactie) in het magazine.
* Alle artikels die door de medewerker worden ingeleverd, worden eigendom van PC Gameplay magazine. De medewerker doet daarbij volledig afstand
van zijn auteursrechten en draagt deze over aan PC Gameplay magazine. PC Gameplay magazine kan zelf beslissen om het artikel al of niet te publiceren
en kan naar eigen goeddunken wijzigingen in het artikel aanbrengen. Elke medewerker is echter zelf verantwoordelijk voor de authenticiteit het
materiaal dat hij aanlevert: m.a.w. indien hij zich bewust of onbewust schuldig maakt aan plagiaat, dan draagt hij daar zelf de verantwoordelijkheid
voor. PC Gameplay magazine kan de aangeleverde artikels gebruiken / hergebruiken op om het even welke wijze het wil (compilaties, publicatie in
andere magazines, op het internet, enz...).
* Alle materiaal dat de medewerker voor het uitvoeren van zijn opdracht ter beschikking wordt gesteld, dient met de striktste geheimhouding te worden
behandelt. Het is de medewerker niet toegestaan om deze informatie op om het even welke manier door te spelen aan derden. Alle materiaal blijft
tevens de volledige eigendom van PC Gameplay magazine en dient achteraf in onberispelijke staat te worden terugbezorgd. Dit punt is bijzonder kritisch
daar er vaak gewerkt wordt met vroege versies van software die nog niet op de markt is. PC Gameplay magazine wordt de meeste uitgevers verplicht
om strenge non-disclosure overeenkomsten te tekenen, met zware boetes en straffen tot gevolg bij schending van deze overeenkomsten. De
medewerker bevestigt hierbij dat hij zich bewust is van de uiterst gevoelige aard van de materialen die hem ter beschikking worden gesteld en dat hij
op de hoogte is van het bestaan van de non-disclosure overeenkomsten en bevestigt uitdrukkelijk dat hij zelf ook door deze overeenkomsten gebonden
is van zodra hij materiaal ontvangt. Eventuele schendingen van deze overeenkomsten door de medewerker ( bv. lekken van illegale kopieën enz...)
zullen door PC Gameplay magazine aan de betreffende uitgevers worden gemeld, waardoor de volledige sancties en boetes ten laste van de medewerker
zullen worden gelegd.
* Indien de medewerker een opdracht op verplaatsing uitvoert zoals een binnen- of buitenlandse perstrip, dan is dat steeds op zelfstandige freelance
basis, waarbij alle risico’s verbonden aan deze trips voor rekening van de medewerker zijn. PC GamePlay magazine zal in geen geval aansprakelijk
kunnen worden gesteld voor schade, materiaal of lichamelijk, opgelopen tijdens de uitvoering van zo’n opdracht. Aan een perstrip kan een extra vergoeding
of een additionele onkostenvergoeding verbonden zijn. Indien dit het geval is, dan worden de extra vergoedingen steeds in detail bevestigd
(schriftelijk) door PC GamePlay magazine vóór de aanvang van de perstrip.
* Gezien de vaak gevoelige en exclusieve aard van het materiaal dat de medewerker ter beschikking wordt gesteld voor het uitvoeren van zijn opdrachten,
is het de medewerker vanaf het moment hij deze overeenkomst ondertekent, niet meer toegestaan om artikels te schrijven, informatie door te
geven, of om op het even welke manier mee te werken aan een andere publicatie dan ‘PC GamePlay Magazine’. Dit verbod slaat echter enkel op publicaties
uit de games sector, zowel voor traditionele gedrukte publicaties als online magazines / sites. Het is de medewerker wel toegestaan om voor om
het even welk ander type van publicatie te schrijven of eraan mee te werken. Afwijking van deze regel kan enkel mits schriftelijk akkoord van PC
GamePlay magazine. Overtreding van deze regel zal een eis tot schadevergoeding vanwege PC Gameplay magazine tot gevolg hebben.
* Dit contract is op elk moment door beide partijen eenzijdig opzegbaar met onmiddellijke ingang (na aangetekend schrijven). Het non-concurrentie
beding blijft, bij opzegging door de medewerker, echter van toepassing tot 6 maanden nadat de medewerker deze overeenkomst schriftelijk heeft
opgezegd. Indien PC Gameplay magazine de overeenkomst opzegt is de medewerker onmiddellijk vrij van alle verplichtingen en vervalt het verbod om
te schrijven voor andere gelijkaardige publicaties onmiddellijk.


Obviously there are plenty of restrictions, but they mostly only apply to publications (online and offline) in the gaming sector; there are also obviously rules about me being responsible for the content, its authenticity etc, NDA's, etc but nowhere does it say or imply I could not publish my own partial results on the web in technical IT forums. nor can I imagine such a regulation making any sense at all. The material is mine, until PCGP buys it from me. If they know parts are published on the web, they can decide wether or not the article is still worth buying/publishing, but that isn't my concern. Considering the context here, I also don't see the *slightest* shred of a problem here, at least not amongst mature adults with common sense and common interests.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
August 13, 2004 8:00:13 PM

Um....is there any way we could get...i don't know....a version that an ignorant lowly Uni-lingual person could read?

What do you call a group of midgets? A pack, gaggle, a pride, or maybe just a murder?
August 13, 2004 8:12:59 PM

Yeah, ask someone who knows Dutch :) . pardon me for not going to translate it just to disprove Slvr's claims.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
August 13, 2004 8:17:32 PM

Re: installing/tweaking Linux, and in depth compiling/benchmarking is just not my expertise at all,

I know nothing on linux too. but you could use ms win 64 beta then download

<A HREF="http://www.jaggedonline.com/?lang=euro&a=&location=buy&..." target="_new"> this </A>. would be interesting to see results

<A HREF="http://sisoftware.co.uk/" target="_new"> more here </A>

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
August 13, 2004 9:36:47 PM

Maybe if you can provide me with a copy of windows-64 that works on Nocona and isn't under NDA :D 

Besides, Sandra is probably the last app I'd use..

And.. the problem with windows is, that there isn't a whole lot of interesting open source software to benchmark. Well, at least not as much as under Linux.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
August 13, 2004 10:11:45 PM

Re: Maybe if you can provide me with a copy of windows-64 that works on Nocona and isn't under NDA :D 

Honestly with sp2 and nocona out I would have thought MS would have the beta that works with both now or very soon. How hard could it be? are the instructions not largly compatible? Surly the next beta will be compatible but I guess that won't help you out unless it gets released tomorrow.

Re: Besides, Sandra is probably the last app I'd use..

Yeah how fast you cdrom spins prolly ain't all that usefull. I have never really messed much with sandra but surley it must have some components usefull in comparing on a 64bit level.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
August 13, 2004 10:25:03 PM

>Honestly with sp2 and nocona out I would have thought MS
>would have the beta that works with both now or very soon.

You know how it goes with MS and "very soon". I don't see the reason either, especially since they got it working on Nocona quite a while ago,and since its beta anyway, ... yet still, you can't download it yet.

>are the instructions not largly compatible?

Yes. It should be rather trivial to get it up and running, and again, they already did it. Maybe I should lay down my tin foil hat, but I can't shake the impression Intel is trying VERY hard to ensure we can't properly test EM64T yet, and I find it extremely strange even independant reviewers (like anand and other sites) test all you want, but not 32 bit versus 64 bit performance on Nocona. I mean, ever since EM64T was announced, that was THE question everyone was asking! We're still asking !

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
August 18, 2004 11:02:52 PM

Re: Maybe if you can provide me with a copy of windows-64 that works on Nocona

Here ya go <A HREF="http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/evaluation/upg..." target="_new"> 64 bit windows amd64 + EM64T </A>
Hurry up I am dying to see this.

Hopefully we will get many new 64bit benchies comming out now.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
August 18, 2004 11:12:10 PM

(BTW, broken link)

Wait, P4Man, you mean you currently have access to a nocona-based xeon system?

This will be interesting! Though you do have a point with the fact that there's not a lot of open source benchmarks for Windows... you could try, say, pov-ray.

In any case, there are too few actually truly relevant performance-oriented apps that you could truly benchmark. And it should also be noted that merely recompiling for a specific instruction set will probably not be a perfect measure of the instruction set's advantages, but it shouldn't be hard to see differences.

I'm very curious too. :smile:
August 18, 2004 11:16:17 PM

Thanks I did have the link fixed before you finished writing that though.

Should be an interesting time as the advantages disadvantages become exposed.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
August 19, 2004 5:37:58 PM

>Wait, P4Man, you mean you currently have access to a
>nocona-based xeon system?

No, not really. I've seen one, but it was a customers I wasn't allowed to touch :)  and through the gaming magazine connection I am able to ask for demonstation hardware, but I don't think intel would give me a Xeon for a gaming article.. Once 64 bit Pentiums come out, I might get my hands on one, but I'm sure Anand, THG, etc will have a review out long before I even booted such a machine.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
August 19, 2004 8:58:00 PM

Quote:

So your're from belgium or holland ?

I`m from Belgium

So if i buy the september edition i will read a piece you have written ?

I used to buy that magazine for years, gave me a perfect view of what games i should look out for, also very good hardware reviews, an Excelent magazine as i recall.

But since i have internet i can get my review`s online and i only buy it sporadic when i have nothing to do at work.
But still i enjoy reading it.


Toms Hardware Site is a joke !
Looks like intel spent more on bribing reviewers to cover up it aint that great than they did in R&D, you know what im talking about Tom !
August 19, 2004 10:38:41 PM

normally, yes, though I havent had confirmation yet..

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
!