Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Tech: Em pinball

Last response: in Video Games
Share
August 26, 2005 3:29:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

1972 Williams Fun-Fest

My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I would
start a new thread.

Here are the problems I have found so far:

1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels reset
to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from the trough.
Other times is serves it up just fine.

2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime post on
one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers but there were
a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is missing(center one) Gaskets
all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers that look like yellowed clear
tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the bottom of the chime box where there
was some weatherstripping so they would not move. Cleaned out the coil
sleeves. Looking for any hints/experience on replacing or rebuilding and any
sources for parts. Pictures also welcome.

Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

More about : tech pinball

August 26, 2005 3:31:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Check the switch for the ball through - sounds like a contact problem.
Maybe dirty or misaligned?

For the chimes, I've used old 5/8" rubber rings above and below the
chimes, and then secured with a larger washer and nut on the top of the
ring to hold it in place. They've always sounded great.

- Sean

Otto wrote:
> 1972 Williams Fun-Fest
>
> My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
> previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I would
> start a new thread.
>
> Here are the problems I have found so far:
>
> 1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels reset
> to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from the trough.
> Other times is serves it up just fine.
>
> 2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime post on
> one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers but there were
> a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is missing(center one) Gaskets
> all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers that look like yellowed clear
> tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the bottom of the chime box where there
> was some weatherstripping so they would not move. Cleaned out the coil
> sleeves. Looking for any hints/experience on replacing or rebuilding and any
> sources for parts. Pictures also welcome.
>
> Otto
>
> CARGPB11
>
> My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
Related resources
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 5:02:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

someone on Martys EM yahoo group just tried felt washers for the chimes
and reported that the saound was better than with rubber. Something to
consider :) 

sean wrote:
> Check the switch for the ball through - sounds like a contact problem.
> Maybe dirty or misaligned?
>
> For the chimes, I've used old 5/8" rubber rings above and below the
> chimes, and then secured with a larger washer and nut on the top of the
> ring to hold it in place. They've always sounded great.
>
> - Sean
>
> Otto wrote:
>
>>1972 Williams Fun-Fest
>>
>>My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
>>previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I would
>>start a new thread.
>>
>>Here are the problems I have found so far:
>>
>>1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels reset
>>to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from the trough.
>>Other times is serves it up just fine.
>>
>>2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime post on
>>one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers but there were
>>a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is missing(center one) Gaskets
>>all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers that look like yellowed clear
>>tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the bottom of the chime box where there
>>was some weatherstripping so they would not move. Cleaned out the coil
>>sleeves. Looking for any hints/experience on replacing or rebuilding and any
>>sources for parts. Pictures also welcome.
>>
>>Otto
>>
>>CARGPB11
>>
>>My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
>
>

--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 5:42:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

its likely not the trough switch it self but my guess too is that it is
in that circut if the score motor stops.

look on the dia. for a switch in the trough circut that is effected by
the # of players and that is most likely your problem.

btw the score motor is not the same as the score reels. the score motor
it the part in the cab that has cams on it. it will turn on and run
till the game is all reset.

if it is still running than the problem is not likely the truogh but
something that has not reset.

if the motor stops then the game has reset and the ball didn't kick out
cuz that circut is open somewhere.

john

www.kansascitypinball.com
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 6:28:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I put the main board on top of machine, pf on side of machine. Plub in
all connectors and trouble shoot that way. Theres probable a stepper
unit for ball count. There should be a relay for outhole, tripping it
should make out hole kick.
Grojohn
August 26, 2005 8:17:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I googled and found someone that recommended 1 1/2" square pieces of 3m pad
with a hole punched in the middle.

I am missing the center retaining bar and and a couple of the chime bars
that stick up off the chime box are broken


Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"Cliffy" <crinear@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:BvudnZNav8Dw6JLeRVn-3g@comcast.com...
> someone on Martys EM yahoo group just tried felt washers for the chimes
> and reported that the saound was better than with rubber. Something to
> consider :) 
>
> sean wrote:
>> Check the switch for the ball through - sounds like a contact problem.
>> Maybe dirty or misaligned?
>>
>> For the chimes, I've used old 5/8" rubber rings above and below the
>> chimes, and then secured with a larger washer and nut on the top of the
>> ring to hold it in place. They've always sounded great.
>>
>> - Sean
>>
>> Otto wrote:
>>
>>>1972 Williams Fun-Fest
>>>
>>>My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
>>>previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I would
>>>start a new thread.
>>>
>>>Here are the problems I have found so far:
>>>
>>>1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels
>>>reset
>>>to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from the
>>>trough.
>>>Other times is serves it up just fine.
>>>
>>>2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime post
>>>on
>>>one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers but there
>>>were
>>>a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is missing(center one)
>>>Gaskets
>>>all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers that look like yellowed clear
>>>tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the bottom of the chime box where
>>>there
>>>was some weatherstripping so they would not move. Cleaned out the coil
>>>sleeves. Looking for any hints/experience on replacing or rebuilding and
>>>any
>>>sources for parts. Pictures also welcome.
>>>
>>>Otto
>>>
>>>CARGPB11
>>>
>>>My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
>>
>>
>
> --
> Cliffy - CARGPB2
> A passion for pinball!
> http://www.passionforpinball.com
August 26, 2005 8:19:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Would the trough switch be it if selecting additional player(s) always gets
the ball into the trough and working with player 1 up?

Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"sean" <sspindler@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:1125081112.436131.217740@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Check the switch for the ball through - sounds like a contact problem.
> Maybe dirty or misaligned?
>
> For the chimes, I've used old 5/8" rubber rings above and below the
> chimes, and then secured with a larger washer and nut on the top of the
> ring to hold it in place. They've always sounded great.
>
> - Sean
>
> Otto wrote:
>> 1972 Williams Fun-Fest
>>
>> My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
>> previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I would
>> start a new thread.
>>
>> Here are the problems I have found so far:
>>
>> 1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels
>> reset
>> to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from the
>> trough.
>> Other times is serves it up just fine.
>>
>> 2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime post
>> on
>> one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers but there
>> were
>> a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is missing(center one)
>> Gaskets
>> all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers that look like yellowed clear
>> tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the bottom of the chime box where
>> there
>> was some weatherstripping so they would not move. Cleaned out the coil
>> sleeves. Looking for any hints/experience on replacing or rebuilding and
>> any
>> sources for parts. Pictures also welcome.
>>
>> Otto
>>
>> CARGPB11
>>
>> My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
>
August 26, 2005 8:20:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

No.

All the score reels reset at 00000 and stop. Game just sits there all lit up
and no ball kicked to shooter. Does not always do it but at least a third
of the time. At this point if I hit the start button for additional
player(s), it kicks the ball out and starts at player 1.

Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"kansas city pinball.com" <rgp@johncglennon.com> wrote in message
news:1125080367.545336.177360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> does the score motor keep running?
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 8:21:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

this is how you find the problem

1 get a wire dia.

2 find the out hole coil on the dia.

3 look at all the switches in that circut
there are likely only 2 one on that relay the other on the score
motor but
there could be others.

4 clean and adj each.

also williams are bad about solder cracks on coils. you might also try
to reflow the coil wires.

also connectors are a problem. find your wire for the coil at the
connector and meter it.
or clean the connectors with a scuff pad.


john

www.kansascitypinball.com
August 26, 2005 8:31:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Here is a real dumb question:

How do you work on the thing? I can put the playfield up against the back
box. What if you need the playfield down but still want to get under it like
on a Wpc when you have it resting on the braces and on the front of the pin
cab.

Can I poke around this thing with the power on? Where are the hazards?


Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
August 26, 2005 11:01:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

The score reels reset and the game is quiet except for the relay that is
energized by the ball in the trough. I can hear a slight buzz. If I remove
the ball and allow the switch to open, then the buzz stops. The trough
switch is sensing fine. It breaks down somewhere from the relay on down.

Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"kansas city pinball.com" <rgp@johncglennon.com> wrote in message
news:1125088941.573440.199660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> its likely not the trough switch it self but my guess too is that it is
> in that circut if the score motor stops.
>
> look on the dia. for a switch in the trough circut that is effected by
> the # of players and that is most likely your problem.
>
> btw the score motor is not the same as the score reels. the score motor
> it the part in the cab that has cams on it. it will turn on and run
> till the game is all reset.
>
> if it is still running than the problem is not likely the truogh but
> something that has not reset.
>
> if the motor stops then the game has reset and the ball didn't kick out
> cuz that circut is open somewhere.
>
> john
>
> www.kansascitypinball.com
>
August 26, 2005 11:03:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

The trough switch activates the relay on the underside of the playfield and
that is it. The outhole kicker does not activate.

Select additional players and it works just fine.

Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"Grojohn" <carniello@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1125091731.784760.273430@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>I put the main board on top of machine, pf on side of machine. Plub in
> all connectors and trouble shoot that way. Theres probable a stepper
> unit for ball count. There should be a relay for outhole, tripping it
> should make out hole kick.
> Grojohn
>
August 26, 2005 11:30:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Now I feel like I have some direction.



I'm on it chief.

Just printed up the schematics. Thanks Leon.

I'll post back.




Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"kansas city pinball.com" <rgp@johncglennon.com> wrote in message
news:1125098460.174659.285640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> this is how you find the problem
>
> 1 get a wire dia.
>
> 2 find the out hole coil on the dia.
>
> 3 look at all the switches in that circut
> there are likely only 2 one on that relay the other on the score
> motor but
> there could be others.
>
> 4 clean and adj each.
>
> also williams are bad about solder cracks on coils. you might also try
> to reflow the coil wires.
>
> also connectors are a problem. find your wire for the coil at the
> connector and meter it.
> or clean the connectors with a scuff pad.
>
>
> john
>
> www.kansascitypinball.com
>
August 27, 2005 12:00:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Found the eject coil on the schematic.


There is the eject relay and there is another item called:

M.B. (symbol here) 4-B

The symbol is a vertical oval with three vertical lines(one long on left and
2 short on right--all parallel) inside it and a horizontal line coming out
of it.

What does this mean on the schematic and where is this component located?




Where do I find the connector for the coil? In the head or the cab?



Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"kansas city pinball.com" <rgp@johncglennon.com> wrote in message
news:1125098460.174659.285640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> this is how you find the problem
>
> 1 get a wire dia.
>
> 2 find the out hole coil on the dia.
>
> 3 look at all the switches in that circut
> there are likely only 2 one on that relay the other on the score
> motor but
> there could be others.
>
> 4 clean and adj each.
>
> also williams are bad about solder cracks on coils. you might also try
> to reflow the coil wires.
>
> also connectors are a problem. find your wire for the coil at the
> connector and meter it.
> or clean the connectors with a scuff pad.
>
>
> john
>
> www.kansascitypinball.com
>
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 12:39:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On 2005-08-26 08:29:24 -0700, "Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> said:

> 1972 Williams Fun-Fest
>
> My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
> previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I
> would start a new thread.
>
> Here are the problems I have found so far:
>
> 1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels
> reset to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from
> the trough. Other times is serves it up just fine.
>
> 2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime
> post on one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers
> but there were a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is
> missing(center one) Gaskets all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers
> that look like yellowed clear tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the
> bottom of the chime box where there was some weatherstripping so they
> would not move. Cleaned out the coil sleeves. Looking for any
> hints/experience on replacing or rebuilding and any sources for parts.
> Pictures also welcome.
>
> Otto
>
> CARGPB11
>
> My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

1) Listen to the game! Really. You will learn the difference between
the sounds it makes while it is resetting and find the point where it
seems to stop. Williams EM games don't reveal as much acoutically as
Gottlieb EM during reset, but the time it takes to eject the ball once
the reels are reset should be consistant. So, the reels spin to 0000,
now if there are any drop targets they should all reset, and the main
bank(s) should reset (Ka-CHUNK), then a small clunk and then the ball
should eject to the shooter trough.

So when listen for a while and try and hear the point where the game
stops during the reset cycle - then turn to the schematic and ask for
help.

2) Welcome to restorations! You might be able to make your own parts to
replace the missing - and some are avaialble from Pinball Resource, us,
and other collectors. Chime bars I'm not sure about - someone should
make those! They are simply aluminum bars (width, length & thickness
matters here) that are cut to a specific length for the tone you want.

John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech enquires to the newsgroup) John's
Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they
just flip out."
August 27, 2005 12:39:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

No drop targets or banks on this game.

The outhole switch triggers a relay on the bottom of the playfield near the
flipper assemblies. Even though the ball does not kick out, I can hear and
see(if I raise the pf and activate the switch) that relay energize. I did
find a wire on that relay that was disconnected. I resoldered that to the
only empty lug(also the lug that the wire was next to and touching).

I disassembled and cleaned the outhole kicker and put in a new sleeve(still
had a metal one) but this did not fix the problem.

I have all the chime bars. The chime box has a couple broken tabs that the
bars slide over. I also am missing one of the chime retaining bars that go
on top of the chime bars.



Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"John Robertson" <spam@flippers.com> wrote in message
news:2005082613391427544%spam@flipperscom...
> On 2005-08-26 08:29:24 -0700, "Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net>
> said:
>
>> 1972 Williams Fun-Fest
>>
>> My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
>> previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I would
>> start a new thread.
>>
>> Here are the problems I have found so far:
>>
>> 1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels
>> reset to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from
>> the trough. Other times is serves it up just fine.
>>
>> 2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime post
>> on one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers but there
>> were a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is missing(center one)
>> Gaskets all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers that look like yellowed
>> clear tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the bottom of the chime box
>> where there was some weatherstripping so they would not move. Cleaned out
>> the coil sleeves. Looking for any hints/experience on replacing or
>> rebuilding and any sources for parts. Pictures also welcome.
>>
>> Otto
>>
>> CARGPB11
>>
>> My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
>
> 1) Listen to the game! Really. You will learn the difference between the
> sounds it makes while it is resetting and find the point where it seems to
> stop. Williams EM games don't reveal as much acoutically as Gottlieb EM
> during reset, but the time it takes to eject the ball once the reels are
> reset should be consistant. So, the reels spin to 0000, now if there are
> any drop targets they should all reset, and the main bank(s) should reset
> (Ka-CHUNK), then a small clunk and then the ball should eject to the
> shooter trough.
>
> So when listen for a while and try and hear the point where the game stops
> during the reset cycle - then turn to the schematic and ask for help.
>
> 2) Welcome to restorations! You might be able to make your own parts to
> replace the missing - and some are avaialble from Pinball Resource, us,
> and other collectors. Chime bars I'm not sure about - someone should make
> those! They are simply aluminum bars (width, length & thickness matters
> here) that are cut to a specific length for the tone you want.
>
> John :-#)#
> --
> (Please post followups or tech enquires to the newsgroup) John's Jukes
> Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757
> or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com
> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
August 27, 2005 12:49:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I'll second this. My EM Night Rider had rubber washers that were
basically rotted out, so I went to Home Depot and bought some of their
felt picture hanger washers ($0.13 each or so) and some steel washers to
fill in any extra space as needed. Sandwiched them as needed to fill
the post, and it works great, and sounds nice and clear. I do need to
go back and add a steel washer or two because there is some play in a
bar that gives the chime a metallic knock when it's struck. I used the
same trick years ago to repair a glockenspiel in college.

Mike


In article <BvudnZNav8Dw6JLeRVn-3g@comcast.com>,
Cliffy <crinear@comcast.net> wrote:

> someone on Martys EM yahoo group just tried felt washers for the chimes
> and reported that the saound was better than with rubber. Something to
> consider :) 
>
> sean wrote:
> > Check the switch for the ball through - sounds like a contact problem.
> > Maybe dirty or misaligned?
> >
> > For the chimes, I've used old 5/8" rubber rings above and below the
> > chimes, and then secured with a larger washer and nut on the top of the
> > ring to hold it in place. They've always sounded great.
> >
> > - Sean
> >
> > Otto wrote:
> >
> >>1972 Williams Fun-Fest
> >>
> >>My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
> >>previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I would
> >>start a new thread.
> >>
> >>Here are the problems I have found so far:
> >>
> >>1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels reset
> >>to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from the trough.
> >>Other times is serves it up just fine.
> >>
> >>2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime post on
> >>one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers but there were
> >>a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is missing(center one) Gaskets
> >>all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers that look like yellowed clear
> >>tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the bottom of the chime box where there
> >>was some weatherstripping so they would not move. Cleaned out the coil
> >>sleeves. Looking for any hints/experience on replacing or rebuilding and any
> >>sources for parts. Pictures also welcome.
> >>
> >>Otto
> >>
> >>CARGPB11
> >>
> >>My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
> >
> >
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 1:36:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

The outhole relay will have one switch in the stack that causes the
score motor to run and pulse the solenoid that sends the ball into the
shooter lane. That switch is probably dirty or has a cold solder joint.

When you press the credit switch for additional players, the score
motor is made to cycle again by a different relay to advance the player
unit and decrement the credit unit. That additional score motor cycle
allows the outhole solenoid to receive its pulse and open the circuit
to the outhole relay.

Kevin


Otto wrote:
> The score reels reset and the game is quiet except for the relay that is
> energized by the ball in the trough. I can hear a slight buzz. If I remove
> the ball and allow the switch to open, then the buzz stops. The trough
> switch is sensing fine. It breaks down somewhere from the relay on down.
>
> Otto
>
> CARGPB11
>
> My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
>
> "kansas city pinball.com" <rgp@johncglennon.com> wrote in message
> news:1125088941.573440.199660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > its likely not the trough switch it self but my guess too is that it is
> > in that circut if the score motor stops.
> >
> > look on the dia. for a switch in the trough circut that is effected by
> > the # of players and that is most likely your problem.
> >
> > btw the score motor is not the same as the score reels. the score motor
> > it the part in the cab that has cams on it. it will turn on and run
> > till the game is all reset.
> >
> > if it is still running than the problem is not likely the truogh but
> > something that has not reset.
> >
> > if the motor stops then the game has reset and the ball didn't kick out
> > cuz that circut is open somewhere.
> >
> > john
> >
> > www.kansascitypinball.com
> >
August 27, 2005 1:59:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Hey Kevin!!!!!

Welcome to RGP.

Mike O.
August 27, 2005 5:22:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I have located the outhole relay in the bottom of the cabinet and it has a
stack of 5 different switches. The center switch is the one that sparks when
the outhole coil fires.

I used some fine medium emery paper and sanded each of the switches in that
stack. Bad form?

I will reflow all the solder joints(where the wire connects to the lugs) on
that switch.

The second paragraph is flying over my head due to my novice status on EMs
and I feel like I am peering into thick fog.. It seems backwards to me. I
thought the motor allowed the the outhole relay to energize which in turn
fires the outhole solenoid. It seems to me like I see the relay energize
before the solenoid fires.

Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

<kwing1000@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1125117410.066349.54780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> The outhole relay will have one switch in the stack that causes the
> score motor to run and pulse the solenoid that sends the ball into the
> shooter lane. That switch is probably dirty or has a cold solder joint.
>
> When you press the credit switch for additional players, the score
> motor is made to cycle again by a different relay to advance the player
> unit and decrement the credit unit. That additional score motor cycle
> allows the outhole solenoid to receive its pulse and open the circuit
> to the outhole relay.
>
> Kevin
>
>
> Otto wrote:
>> The score reels reset and the game is quiet except for the relay that is
>> energized by the ball in the trough. I can hear a slight buzz. If I
>> remove
>> the ball and allow the switch to open, then the buzz stops. The trough
>> switch is sensing fine. It breaks down somewhere from the relay on down.
>>
>> Otto
>>
>> CARGPB11
>>
>> My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
>>
>> "kansas city pinball.com" <rgp@johncglennon.com> wrote in message
>> news:1125088941.573440.199660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> > its likely not the trough switch it self but my guess too is that it is
>> > in that circut if the score motor stops.
>> >
>> > look on the dia. for a switch in the trough circut that is effected by
>> > the # of players and that is most likely your problem.
>> >
>> > btw the score motor is not the same as the score reels. the score motor
>> > it the part in the cab that has cams on it. it will turn on and run
>> > till the game is all reset.
>> >
>> > if it is still running than the problem is not likely the truogh but
>> > something that has not reset.
>> >
>> > if the motor stops then the game has reset and the ball didn't kick out
>> > cuz that circut is open somewhere.
>> >
>> > john
>> >
>> > www.kansascitypinball.com
>> >
>
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 9:03:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I've been making new ones for my WMS games for
years. The material they used is a standard size and
thickness. It can be purchased (cheap!), from local
metal suppliers. It comes in 20ft lengths for a few bucks.

(Bring a hacksaw.)

Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
======================================


"John Robertson" <spam@flippers.com> wrote in message news:2005082613391427544%spam@flipperscom...

> 2) Welcome to restorations! You might be able to make your own parts to
> replace the missing - and some are avaialble from Pinball Resource, us,
> and other collectors. Chime bars I'm not sure about - someone should
> make those! They are simply aluminum bars (width, length & thickness
> matters here) that are cut to a specific length for the tone you want.
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 9:12:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I turn them upside down, and place them back in
the cab to work on the bottom. Place the lockdown
bar across the end to keep it from falling in.

To work on the bottom motor board: Remove the pf
entirely. Pull the motorboard out, and lay it crossways
on the cab rails. Clean, repair, adjust everything and
re-install.

There is 115vac running around the cabs in many EMs,
so appropriate precautions should be taken. High voltage
can damage some stepper units and contacts.

OTOH, there are few precious solid state circuit boards that
can be damaged. ;) 

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************

"Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote in

>
> How do you work on the thing? I can put the playfield up against the back
> box. What if you need the playfield down but still want to get under it like
> on a Wpc when you have it resting on the braces and on the front of the pin
> cab.
>
> Can I poke around this thing with the power on? Where are the hazards?
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 10:47:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Otto:

That could be a clue.

On your schematic at location 13-E there is a normally closed switch
on the game over relay and the reset relay that feeds the line to ball
release coil, center target relay, outhole relay and trough relay
among others.

Kevin
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 11:25:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Otto:

The eject coil is on the eject hole at the top of the playfield.

M.B. Is the abbreviation for a make/break switch. It usually has a
longer switch blade between two shorter ones. As the center blade is
moved, it breaks contact with a short blade contact on one side before
making contact with the short blade on the other side.

The circular symbol around the schematic representation of the
make/break switch indicates a switch actuated by a motor cam.

4-B indicates the score motor cam number #4 Switch B. The numbering
of the cams is confusing because the cam with two indentions in it at
the beginning of the row of cams is called the index cam. Then the
ones following it are numbered 1,2,3,4 etc. until you reach the cams at
the other end with 10 bumps on them. They are called index cams. They
give the machine the familiar 5 pulse heartbeat that you hear during
resets. Each 180 degree rotation of a cam equals one score motor
cycle. (Gottlieb is a 120 degree rotation per cycle.)

The cam switches on the score motor are lettered from the closest to
the cam out. So switch 4-B is on the fifth cam, second from the
bottom. The schematic area 15 B shows the score motor cam switches and
lists where the go which, in this case, pulses the eject coil.

Kevin
August 28, 2005 12:46:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

What is the bottom motor board?

What has to be done to pull it out? Disconnect stuff? Screws?

Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
news:D eqp2e42ru0@enews2.newsguy.com...
> To work on the bottom motor board: Remove the pf
> entirely. Pull the motorboard out, and lay it crossways
> on the cab rails. Clean, repair, adjust everything and
> re-install.
>
> There is 115vac running around the cabs in many EMs,
> so appropriate precautions should be taken. High voltage
> can damage some stepper units and contacts.
August 28, 2005 12:54:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I went through all the relays on that line of the schematic and cleaned them
with emery cloth. Checked all the wires properly connected.

Game still has the intermittent problem.

I did notice that when it happens, the center target and eject also do not
register. These two relays are on that same line of the schematic as noted
below.

Does this fact narrow it down at all?


Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding



"Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:bP2Qe.10655$N1.9077@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>> When you look at your schematic for the problem, you are not looking
>> at the circuit to the outhole solenoid, you are looking at the circuit
>> for the score motor.
>
>
> I find the score motor on the schematic at the juncture of section 4 and 5
> on the schematic. This schematic is numbered from top to bottom on the
> left hand side 1-24. Score motor is oon the far right side and going right
> to left it goes through the service jack and then it branches to 7 to 10
> lines depending how you count them. These are labeled "10c re", "25c re",
> "eject re", "center target re", "M.B. ind-e", "coin re", outhole re",
> "reset re", 3000 re", "spcl reel reset re".
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 1:06:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Two or three large screws in the bottom. It is
the piece of plywood in the bottom of the game
that the motor and all the rest of the relays and
such are bolted to. Most everything unplugs from
it or is easily removed.

This way, you don't have to stand on your head
to work on everything... ;) 

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************


"Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote

> What is the bottom motor board?
>
> What has to be done to pull it out? Disconnect stuff? Screws?
>
> Otto
>
> CARGPB11
>
> My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
>
> "Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
> news:D eqp2e42ru0@enews2.newsguy.com...
> > To work on the bottom motor board: Remove the pf
> > entirely. Pull the motorboard out, and lay it crossways
> > on the cab rails. Clean, repair, adjust everything and
> > re-install.
> >
> > There is 115vac running around the cabs in many EMs,
> > so appropriate precautions should be taken. High voltage
> > can damage some stepper units and contacts.
>
>
August 28, 2005 4:16:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I checked and cleaned the game over relay and reset relay. Cycled the game
on and off numerous times and I am unable to see any difference in the
actuation of when it works and doesn't work. OR when going from 1 player to
2.

The only thing I see that changes is the score motor cycling.

I may be looking right at the problem. Maybe I need to clean the contacts
better.

I don't know.

Anybody want to play "will it sink or float"?

Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

<kwing1000@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1125193620.378039.89080@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Otto:
>
> That could be a clue.
>
> On your schematic at location 13-E there is a normally closed switch
> on the game over relay and the reset relay that feeds the line to ball
> release coil, center target relay, outhole relay and trough relay
> among others.
>
> Kevin
>
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 4:16:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Don't be so impatient.....

My first EM took almost two months to "get right". It
is still reliable to this day.

Tighten every switch stack screw you find, clean and
adjust everything. Make sure that you can operate all
stepper mechs by hand, and they move freely. Make
sure all contacts "wipe" when they make. Look for loose,
broken wires. (Especially around the score reels on WMS.)

You will be an expert too when you are done. :) 

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************


"Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:aTaQe.11685$2_.9305@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> I checked and cleaned the game over relay and reset relay. Cycled the game
> on and off numerous times and I am unable to see any difference in the
> actuation of when it works and doesn't work. OR when going from 1 player to
> 2.
>
> The only thing I see that changes is the score motor cycling.
>
> I may be looking right at the problem. Maybe I need to clean the contacts
> better.
>
> I don't know.
>
> Anybody want to play "will it sink or float"?
August 28, 2005 5:25:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Below is the Williams start up sequence .

Thanks to marvin.com

Williams Start-Up Sequence.

1.. When the start button is pressed, the credit unit is decremented. This
is done through the credit unit zero position switch and the 2nd coin relay
(and the ball count zero position switch).
2.. The end of stroke (EOS) switch on the credit unit decrement coil will
energized the coin relay.
3.. The coin relay will trip the game over relay.
4.. The coin relay will energized the reset relay. The score motor will
run.
5.. The reset relay will energized the ball count unit reset, through the
score motor.
6.. The reset relay energizes the 2nd coin relay latch and game over relay
latch coils.
7.. The reset relay will energize the score reset relays, through the
score motor.
8.. The score reel reset relays will zero the score reels, through the
score motor. The score motor will continue to active the score reset relays
until all the score reels reach the zero position.
9.. The reset relay activates the bonus unit coil until the bonus unit
zero position switch is activated.
10.. When the bonus relay drops out, the outhole relay is energized
through a different bonus unit zero switch and score motor switch.
11.. The outhole relay will run the score motor. The bonus unit will step
up once. The ball will be kicked to the shooter lane.

I think mine breaks down somewhere from steps 9 to 11.

What/where is the bonus unit?



Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
news:D ereqt0s21@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Don't be so impatient.....
>
> My first EM took almost two months to "get right". It
> is still reliable to this day.
>
> Tighten every switch stack screw you find, clean and
> adjust everything. Make sure that you can operate all
> stepper mechs by hand, and they move freely. Make
> sure all contacts "wipe" when they make. Look for loose,
> broken wires. (Especially around the score reels on WMS.)
>
> You will be an expert too when you are done. :) 
>
> --
> Fred
> TX
> CARGPB#8
> ******************
>
>
> "Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:aTaQe.11685$2_.9305@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>> I checked and cleaned the game over relay and reset relay. Cycled the
>> game
>> on and off numerous times and I am unable to see any difference in the
>> actuation of when it works and doesn't work. OR when going from 1 player
>> to
>> 2.
>>
>> The only thing I see that changes is the score motor cycling.
>>
>> I may be looking right at the problem. Maybe I need to clean the contacts
>> better.
>>
>> I don't know.
>>
>> Anybody want to play "will it sink or float"?
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 5:25:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

The bonus unit, (IF it has one), is the unit that adds the bonus
points after the ball drains. The bonus is built up by hitting the
proper targets, and it will step UP accordingly. It will count down
the points. Upon reaching zero, the game progresses to the next
step. Often this unit is located on the underside of the pf if there
is indeed a bonus countdown feature. Look on the playfield for
incremental bonus amounts.
--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************



"Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:UTbQe.11690
> I think mine breaks down somewhere from steps 9 to 11.
>
> What/where is the bonus unit?
>
>
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 9:34:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Ahh yes. The Zen of EMs.

You must have patience Otto, there is a disturbance in the flow, it
calls out to you, listen...

bogart
www.pinrestore.com


Fred Kemper wrote:
> Don't be so impatient.....
>
> My first EM took almost two months to "get right". It
> is still reliable to this day.
>
> Tighten every switch stack screw you find, clean and
> adjust everything. Make sure that you can operate all
> stepper mechs by hand, and they move freely. Make
> sure all contacts "wipe" when they make. Look for loose,
> broken wires. (Especially around the score reels on WMS.)
>
> You will be an expert too when you are done. :) 
>
> --
> Fred
> TX
> CARGPB#8
> ******************
>
>
> "Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:aTaQe.11685$2_.9305@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
>>I checked and cleaned the game over relay and reset relay. Cycled the game
>>on and off numerous times and I am unable to see any difference in the
>>actuation of when it works and doesn't work. OR when going from 1 player to
>>2.
>>
>>The only thing I see that changes is the score motor cycling.
>>
>>I may be looking right at the problem. Maybe I need to clean the contacts
>>better.
>>
>>I don't know.
>>
>>Anybody want to play "will it sink or float"?
>
>
>
>
August 28, 2005 9:34:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I want my test menu.


Give me transistors or give me..................



Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"bogart" <pinrestore@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:F1cQe.2552$Wd7.1550@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Ahh yes. The Zen of EMs.
>
> You must have patience Otto, there is a disturbance in the flow, it calls
> out to you, listen...
August 28, 2005 6:13:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

There is a unit with the spider like thing under the Pf. It had 2 wires
disconnected. One was for a bonus feature light. I resoldered that and now
the light works. Not sure what the other one was. I resoldered it to an
empty lug on that board.

That spider runs continuously during play until the bonus is selected by
hitting one of two targets.


Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
news:D erjl902ev@enews1.newsguy.com...
>
> The bonus unit, (IF it has one), is the unit that adds the bonus
> points after the ball drains. The bonus is built up by hitting the
> proper targets, and it will step UP accordingly. It will count down
> the points. Upon reaching zero, the game progresses to the next
> step. Often this unit is located on the underside of the pf if there
> is indeed a bonus countdown feature. Look on the playfield for
> incremental bonus amounts.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 7:00:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

two things that may help you, it made me nuts on a williams e/m . one
,check the stepper unit for the bonus , as some else mentions. the shaft
the metal contact unit( spider) sits on gets gummed up, and it wont move
correctly. you can activated the solenoids on it by hand. it should step
up nicely with one soleniod, and step down nicely with the other. the
stepping down action is the unit actually unwinding one tooth at a time,
as the soleniod mechanism lift off one tooth at a time. if the unit its
very sticky, it wont unwind. bbefore you take it a part note carefully
the position of the spider, you dont want to put it on backwards, also
note thhe position of the long pin sticking oout of the geat, that will
rest against a contact switch when its in the home position. the other
thing, not uncommom, check all the stacks in the score motor. sometimes
on of the little white spacers betweeen the end of each stack switch
falls out. if that happens, they do the wackiest things. the schematic
shows the spacers. i believe every single stack should have a spacer. i
made one out of a wood dowel and super glued it on.

--
Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
http://www.gamernewsgroups.com
August 28, 2005 9:30:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

> The bonus unit, (IF it has one), is the unit that adds the bonus
> points after the ball drains.

Otto,

Swinger/Fun Fest does have bonus. It counts down whatever value is currently
lit on the swing reel (1000, 3000, 5000 )

I have a Swinger and I've been following this thread yesterday at work. If
you still need a manual, I have a Swinger manual ( should be the same ) but
it's a hard copy - but it's not as valuable as the new Williams manuals, I
think you'll be dissapointed. It mostly covers things like setting the free
play score, number of balls, etc.and is probably only 20 pages or so. I can
scan if you want.

As far as the chime unit - I can get you pics of mine. It works, except the
middle chine (100's) was broken. I managed to get another chime box, so I
may have some extra parts that you might need.

You're helping me learn some things myself - as I have to clean the step
unit which is gummed up, but haven't had the nerve to take it apart yet to
clean. Definately have no EM repair experience, but a similiar game to take
pics for you if you wish. This game should be complete - I've had it since I
was a kid. We got it as a family christmas present back in 76 and I still
have that game - and it works (almost) 100% - Imagine HUO for almost 30
years !

Devon
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 10:26:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

there are probably a lot of empty lugs on that board. you really need to
look hard at it and solder those wires correctly. i dont think the
schematic will show the board lugs, but the operators manual will. the
chances of you soldering the two wires to the correct lugs are not
high. doing it wrong can create more problems than you had and make it
way harder to daignose.

--
Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
http://www.gamernewsgroups.com
August 28, 2005 10:26:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

The one wire I know I got correct. 100% sure.

The other I am not sure.

Decided to try and clean the various stepper boards with 3m pads and
alcohol. A couple boards in the bottom back of the cabinet and the bonus one
under the Pf.

Things are going from bad to worse.

Now the game starts at 4 players.

Bonus doesn't advance correctly. I am pretty sure this is simply a missing
spring.

Feature lights at the top of the playfield changed with every switch
activiation. I am pretty sure that is wrong.

This thing is quickly turning into a worthless pile of plywood and wire.

Ya gotta love Em pinball machines.

Anybody need parts?


Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"mike hooker" <mhooker@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:klnQe.36$h01.7302@news.uswest.net...
> there are probably a lot of empty lugs on that board. you really need to
> look hard at it and solder those wires correctly. i dont think the
> schematic will show the board lugs, but the operators manual will. the
> chances of you soldering the two wires to the correct lugs are not
> high. doing it wrong can create more problems than you had and make it
> way harder to daignose.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 11:25:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I don't have a manual so I feel like I am sort of swinging in the dark
with
a wet noodle. I need to make sure we are talking about the same relays.


Thanks in advance for the patience.


Left/right/top/bottom when standing in the playing position


Underside of the playfield. With the playfield up against the backbox,
there
is a relay at the the top above the left flipper mechanism that closes
when
I actuate the outhole switch in the trough. It is labeled "ball trough
relay" with a sticker on the underside of the Pf.


There is also a relay in the bottom of the cabinet to the right of the

score motor(playing position) labeled "outhole relay". It is a stack of
5
groupls of switches which are moved simultaneousl when the relay
attached to
it actuates. That is the one that closes when the solenoid fires
properly.
The center switch sparks when it closes. When the outhole is not
serving the
ball, this is relay is not activating.


I also notice that when I actuate the trough switch in the trough, a
relay
on the inside of the coin door actuates. The relay is to the right of
the
right hand coin mech. Does this have anything to do with anything? The
game
is apparently set on free play with no coin mechs but when that coin
door
relay actuates it moves two wire rods that stick out from the coin door
into
the cabinet area where the mechs would be.


Otto:

OK I was confused here with you. You are saying that the trough
relay stays energized with a ball in the outhole and that sometimes the
outhole relay does not energize and serve the ball. I was thinking that
you were saying that the outhole relay was staying energized but the
score motor would not run at that point to pulse the "Ball Release
Coil" ,which is what they seem to be referring to what Gottlieb would
call the "Ball Return" or "Outhole" solenoid. (In the 1974-75 Williams
parts catalog they refer to that assembly as the "New Automatic Ball
Return Assembly".) To further complicate matters, the schematic has a
"Ball Return" coil on the left outlane which on the parts catalog is
called a "Kicker Assembly". Which is not to be confused with the "L.
Kicker" or the "R. Kicker" (Slingshot Kickers) Then, of course, there
is the eject solenoid on the eject hole which, I think, is where you
were following the schematic when looking for "Ball Release Coil".

Everyone who is lost at this point, please raise your hands.

Me too.

Lets backup to the outhole relay. When you are in the error
condition, (Trough relay on, outhole relay off, ball sitting in the
outhole) If you manually push in the outhole relay, does the score
motor run and the ball move to the shooter lane? I'm assuming yes.

On another post you said "I did notice that when it happens, the
center target and eject also do not register. These two relays are on
that same line of the schematic as noted
below."

If you follow the line to the left from the outhole relay to where it
turns upwards, notice the tie point at the center target relay. Go up
the right turn and notice the tie point going down and right to the
eject relay. Go back to the tie point and notice a jump arrow pointing
up to W-Blu @ C-3. This leads to the score motor index cam (The first
one with the two indentions.) Switch E. (The top one on the stack.) I
believe that the schematic is wrong at this point. Otherwise the
enabling relays would be deenergized when the solenoid firing pulse is
sent. I compared another schematic from the same era (Gulfstream) and
the jump arrow goes to R-BR@C2 (Note that there is also a jump to
that point) We are now at score motor cam 5 switch A which is marked 5
plays-25 cents on the schematic. (Same on Gulfstream) This switch
supplies power to these three relays for one cycle (1/2 revolution) of
the score motor and then interrupts it. Note that these three relays
being pulled in enables the corresponding solenoids to be fired by a
pulse from cam #4. Switch A (Ball Release) and Switch B (Eject) with
the center target being on the index cam.

Check, clean or adjust Cam switch 5A.

Now for my approach to reviving to old EM machines that haven't been
used in years. I don't even try to plug it in and start troubleshooting
all of the many synptoms that it will exhibit before working on it.
(Warning! This may not be the best approach for everyone.)
I will pull the relay board out of the bottom of the cabinet and put
it on the workbench with a good magnifying swing arm light.
I will recover all of the screws and other random hardware from the
bottom of the cabinet and put it in a zip lock bag until I find where
they came from. I will use a vacuum cleaner with an upholstery brush
in one hand and a typewriter brush in the other to carefully clean so
as not to bend any switch blades. I will follow that with canned air
or an air compressor for hard to reach areas. If there is evidence of
staining in the plywood or switch stack insulators from contact cleaner
or WD-40 use, you might consider joining a support group for "Special
Needs Pinball Machines" because your problems will be many. I will
usuually replace the line cord, add grounds if none exist, check fuses
and condition of fuse holders. I will add an on/off switch if none
exists.
I will systematically tighten every switch stack, look for solder
splash that may be bridging switch blades, flexstone file every contact
(Point file on tungsten), ohm out any that look to have been hot, check
point gap and wiping action with a magnifying glass. I will tug on
every wire solder connection. I will disassemble, clean and lightly
lube every stepper unit.

The head will get similar attention with every score reel and stepper
being disassembled and cleaned.

For playfield servicing I made a simple frame for my workbench that
allows me to set it on it either side up for easier access to remove
most everything from the topside, cleaning and ziplock bagging as I go.
(Digital camera. Wonderful invention.)

Skipping ahead, when assembled and power up after doing all of this,
you should only have to deal with a couple of minor adjustmant
problems. (A score reel that doesn't reset correctly etc.) Relibility
increases dramatically and your frustration level decreases from
repeatedly having to look under the hood for some sluggish stepper
problem or endlessly readjusting switches that are dirty and loose.

I'm looking foward to hearing what eventually resolves the problems
that you are having.

Kevin
August 29, 2005 1:01:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

My bonus stepper only has one solenoid.

Should it have two?


Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"mike hooker" <mhooker@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:ckkQe.14$h01.3899@news.uswest.net...
> two things that may help you, it made me nuts on a williams e/m . one
> ,check the stepper unit for the bonus , as some else mentions. the shaft
> the metal contact unit( spider) sits on gets gummed up, and it wont move
> correctly. you can activated the solenoids on it by hand. it should step
> up nicely with one soleniod, and step down nicely with the other. the
> stepping down action is the unit actually unwinding one tooth at a time,
> as the soleniod mechanism lift off one tooth at a time. if the unit its
> very sticky, it wont unwind. bbefore you take it a part note carefully
> the position of the spider, you dont want to put it on backwards, also
> note thhe position of the long pin sticking oout of the geat, that will
> rest against a contact switch when its in the home position. the other
> thing, not uncommom, check all the stacks in the score motor. sometimes
> on of the little white spacers betweeen the end of each stack switch
> falls out. if that happens, they do the wackiest things. the schematic
> shows the spacers. i believe every single stack should have a spacer. i
> made one out of a wood dowel and super glued it on.
>
> --
> Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
> http://www.gamernewsgroups.com
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 1:01:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

get your meter out and verify 0 ohms on stepper units with wiper
fingers. I have seen 5 ohms and greater cause problems. Patience...you
will get it to function correctly, I guarantee it!
August 29, 2005 3:16:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Make sure I have this correct.

Measure the resistance with one lead on the board and one lead on the
finger?

Check each finger?

Essentially checking for blockage(resistance) between the finger and the
board?


I wish I felt as confident as you do. I feel like the pingods have opened up
a can of "whip arse" on me.



Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"Grojohn" <carniello@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1125284401.524289.120270@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> get your meter out and verify 0 ohms on stepper units with wiper
> fingers. I have seen 5 ohms and greater cause problems. Patience...you
> will get it to function correctly, I guarantee it!
>
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 5:38:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

hi, i would think so. there should be one to make it count up, and one
to make it count down. it has to be able to go both ways, otherwise,
what would be the point of it. if the there arent two coils, and there
are supposed to be two, then at least the arm the coil operates ought to
be there, unless someone gutted that too. i think you said you have a
schematic, it should show if there are two. the williams operators
manuals have nice pictures of them, showing the various postions. both
my willinams machines, all of the stepper units( ball count, player,
credit wheel) have two solenoids. if you are missing one, you should be
able to somehow manually get the stepper to the home position. i would
say home would be when the big pin on the side of the gear rests on the
switch , opening it. if the unit isnt on the home position, the machime
wont reset properly. that was one of the big issues on mine. all the
paers wewre there, but it was so gummed up, it would count up, but not
down. when i fixed that, i had a machine that would reset and eject a
ball into the shooter. after that, i fixed all the other stuff.

--
Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
http://www.gamernewsgroups.com
August 29, 2005 5:38:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Spent some time with marvin and decided I needed to remove and clean the
boards on the stepper units.

I did the two in the bottom of the cabinet(coin unit and ball count unit)
and the one on the underside of the playfield.

Scrubbed them shiney with 3m pad and wiped them down with alcohol.

Reassembled.

It's worse now.

No game over light. Game starts up at the same number of players as the last
game. Eject hole rarely works. Game doesn't always count the balls. Outhole
kicker seems to feed the ball a little better but still goes dead
frequently. Center target rarely works much like the eject hole.


Feels like a death spiral.

:>)


Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 7:23:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

the contacts and board really have to be in bad shape to benefit from
that type of cleaning. the fact that it is worse isnt from it being
cleaner, its from incorrect assembly or indexing. my steppers, the
contacts werent the problem, it was that they rotated poorly due to crud
on the shaft. honestly, you should not do anything else until you get
the operator manual. the pics of the steppers will really clear things
up. if your bonus stepper isnt at the start position( usually 1000), the
machine wont work. if the ball count stepper is off, the ball count will
be wacky, but the machine should run or be close to running. also be
sure you have some credits on the credit wheel steeper. dont force the
wheel, actuate the coil mechanisms by hand to advance it. get the
steppers in the correct places and you will be on your way. what are the
correct positions? they are in the operator manual.

--
Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
http://www.gamernewsgroups.com
August 29, 2005 7:23:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I ordered a Fun-Fest manual from Pbr.

Steve said it was a copy.

Is this the operator manual?


Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"mike hooker" <mhooker@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:cdvQe.63$h01.14456@news.uswest.net...
>get the
> steppers in the correct places and you will be on your way. what are the
> correct positions? they are in the operator manual.
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 4:51:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

hi, should be the correct manual. 99% percent of them are copies. i get
mine from another guy, and though i'm syre they are copies, they look
and feel like orig. dommt mess with the machine till you read the
manual a few times.

--
Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
http://www.gamernewsgroups.com
August 29, 2005 4:51:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I think that is sound advice.



Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"mike hooker" <mhooker@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:KxDQe.3$nn2.635@news.uswest.net...
> dommt mess with the machine till you read the
> manual a few times.
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 2:06:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Otto:

Is there any chance that one of the Jones plugs is now properly
plugged in? I have seen them shoved in to where the pins were in
between the sockets. A loose bit of hardware falling from the
playfield onto a relay switch in the bottom of the cabinet can cause
shorts. (I sometimes take the relay board out and shake it upside down
to find stray hardware) Solder splash dripped from the playfield onto
the relay board is a possibility. The jones plugs in the head make a
nice little catch tray for forign parts as well. Revisit the last
place you were before this happened. Both 6 and 24 volts coexist on
the stepper units. I use scotchbright and alcohol to clean the rivets.
Steel wool is evil.

Kevin
!