Tech: Em pinball

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

1972 Williams Fun-Fest

My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I would
start a new thread.

Here are the problems I have found so far:

1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels reset
to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from the trough.
Other times is serves it up just fine.

2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime post on
one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers but there were
a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is missing(center one) Gaskets
all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers that look like yellowed clear
tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the bottom of the chime box where there
was some weatherstripping so they would not move. Cleaned out the coil
sleeves. Looking for any hints/experience on replacing or rebuilding and any
sources for parts. Pictures also welcome.

Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
59 answers Last reply
More about tech pinball
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    does the score motor keep running?

    john

    www.kansascitypinball.com
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Check the switch for the ball through - sounds like a contact problem.
    Maybe dirty or misaligned?

    For the chimes, I've used old 5/8" rubber rings above and below the
    chimes, and then secured with a larger washer and nut on the top of the
    ring to hold it in place. They've always sounded great.

    - Sean

    Otto wrote:
    > 1972 Williams Fun-Fest
    >
    > My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
    > previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I would
    > start a new thread.
    >
    > Here are the problems I have found so far:
    >
    > 1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels reset
    > to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from the trough.
    > Other times is serves it up just fine.
    >
    > 2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime post on
    > one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers but there were
    > a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is missing(center one) Gaskets
    > all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers that look like yellowed clear
    > tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the bottom of the chime box where there
    > was some weatherstripping so they would not move. Cleaned out the coil
    > sleeves. Looking for any hints/experience on replacing or rebuilding and any
    > sources for parts. Pictures also welcome.
    >
    > Otto
    >
    > CARGPB11
    >
    > My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    someone on Martys EM yahoo group just tried felt washers for the chimes
    and reported that the saound was better than with rubber. Something to
    consider :)

    sean wrote:
    > Check the switch for the ball through - sounds like a contact problem.
    > Maybe dirty or misaligned?
    >
    > For the chimes, I've used old 5/8" rubber rings above and below the
    > chimes, and then secured with a larger washer and nut on the top of the
    > ring to hold it in place. They've always sounded great.
    >
    > - Sean
    >
    > Otto wrote:
    >
    >>1972 Williams Fun-Fest
    >>
    >>My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
    >>previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I would
    >>start a new thread.
    >>
    >>Here are the problems I have found so far:
    >>
    >>1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels reset
    >>to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from the trough.
    >>Other times is serves it up just fine.
    >>
    >>2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime post on
    >>one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers but there were
    >>a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is missing(center one) Gaskets
    >>all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers that look like yellowed clear
    >>tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the bottom of the chime box where there
    >>was some weatherstripping so they would not move. Cleaned out the coil
    >>sleeves. Looking for any hints/experience on replacing or rebuilding and any
    >>sources for parts. Pictures also welcome.
    >>
    >>Otto
    >>
    >>CARGPB11
    >>
    >>My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
    >
    >

    --
    Cliffy - CARGPB2
    A passion for pinball!
    http://www.passionforpinball.com
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    its likely not the trough switch it self but my guess too is that it is
    in that circut if the score motor stops.

    look on the dia. for a switch in the trough circut that is effected by
    the # of players and that is most likely your problem.

    btw the score motor is not the same as the score reels. the score motor
    it the part in the cab that has cams on it. it will turn on and run
    till the game is all reset.

    if it is still running than the problem is not likely the truogh but
    something that has not reset.

    if the motor stops then the game has reset and the ball didn't kick out
    cuz that circut is open somewhere.

    john

    www.kansascitypinball.com
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    I put the main board on top of machine, pf on side of machine. Plub in
    all connectors and trouble shoot that way. Theres probable a stepper
    unit for ball count. There should be a relay for outhole, tripping it
    should make out hole kick.
    Grojohn
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    I googled and found someone that recommended 1 1/2" square pieces of 3m pad
    with a hole punched in the middle.

    I am missing the center retaining bar and and a couple of the chime bars
    that stick up off the chime box are broken


    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "Cliffy" <crinear@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:BvudnZNav8Dw6JLeRVn-3g@comcast.com...
    > someone on Martys EM yahoo group just tried felt washers for the chimes
    > and reported that the saound was better than with rubber. Something to
    > consider :)
    >
    > sean wrote:
    >> Check the switch for the ball through - sounds like a contact problem.
    >> Maybe dirty or misaligned?
    >>
    >> For the chimes, I've used old 5/8" rubber rings above and below the
    >> chimes, and then secured with a larger washer and nut on the top of the
    >> ring to hold it in place. They've always sounded great.
    >>
    >> - Sean
    >>
    >> Otto wrote:
    >>
    >>>1972 Williams Fun-Fest
    >>>
    >>>My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
    >>>previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I would
    >>>start a new thread.
    >>>
    >>>Here are the problems I have found so far:
    >>>
    >>>1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels
    >>>reset
    >>>to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from the
    >>>trough.
    >>>Other times is serves it up just fine.
    >>>
    >>>2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime post
    >>>on
    >>>one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers but there
    >>>were
    >>>a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is missing(center one)
    >>>Gaskets
    >>>all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers that look like yellowed clear
    >>>tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the bottom of the chime box where
    >>>there
    >>>was some weatherstripping so they would not move. Cleaned out the coil
    >>>sleeves. Looking for any hints/experience on replacing or rebuilding and
    >>>any
    >>>sources for parts. Pictures also welcome.
    >>>
    >>>Otto
    >>>
    >>>CARGPB11
    >>>
    >>>My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
    >>
    >>
    >
    > --
    > Cliffy - CARGPB2
    > A passion for pinball!
    > http://www.passionforpinball.com
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Would the trough switch be it if selecting additional player(s) always gets
    the ball into the trough and working with player 1 up?

    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "sean" <sspindler@ameritech.net> wrote in message
    news:1125081112.436131.217740@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > Check the switch for the ball through - sounds like a contact problem.
    > Maybe dirty or misaligned?
    >
    > For the chimes, I've used old 5/8" rubber rings above and below the
    > chimes, and then secured with a larger washer and nut on the top of the
    > ring to hold it in place. They've always sounded great.
    >
    > - Sean
    >
    > Otto wrote:
    >> 1972 Williams Fun-Fest
    >>
    >> My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
    >> previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I would
    >> start a new thread.
    >>
    >> Here are the problems I have found so far:
    >>
    >> 1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels
    >> reset
    >> to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from the
    >> trough.
    >> Other times is serves it up just fine.
    >>
    >> 2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime post
    >> on
    >> one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers but there
    >> were
    >> a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is missing(center one)
    >> Gaskets
    >> all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers that look like yellowed clear
    >> tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the bottom of the chime box where
    >> there
    >> was some weatherstripping so they would not move. Cleaned out the coil
    >> sleeves. Looking for any hints/experience on replacing or rebuilding and
    >> any
    >> sources for parts. Pictures also welcome.
    >>
    >> Otto
    >>
    >> CARGPB11
    >>
    >> My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
    >
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    No.

    All the score reels reset at 00000 and stop. Game just sits there all lit up
    and no ball kicked to shooter. Does not always do it but at least a third
    of the time. At this point if I hit the start button for additional
    player(s), it kicks the ball out and starts at player 1.

    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "kansas city pinball.com" <rgp@johncglennon.com> wrote in message
    news:1125080367.545336.177360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > does the score motor keep running?
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    this is how you find the problem

    1 get a wire dia.

    2 find the out hole coil on the dia.

    3 look at all the switches in that circut
    there are likely only 2 one on that relay the other on the score
    motor but
    there could be others.

    4 clean and adj each.

    also williams are bad about solder cracks on coils. you might also try
    to reflow the coil wires.

    also connectors are a problem. find your wire for the coil at the
    connector and meter it.
    or clean the connectors with a scuff pad.


    john

    www.kansascitypinball.com
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Here is a real dumb question:

    How do you work on the thing? I can put the playfield up against the back
    box. What if you need the playfield down but still want to get under it like
    on a Wpc when you have it resting on the braces and on the front of the pin
    cab.

    Can I poke around this thing with the power on? Where are the hazards?


    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    The score reels reset and the game is quiet except for the relay that is
    energized by the ball in the trough. I can hear a slight buzz. If I remove
    the ball and allow the switch to open, then the buzz stops. The trough
    switch is sensing fine. It breaks down somewhere from the relay on down.

    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "kansas city pinball.com" <rgp@johncglennon.com> wrote in message
    news:1125088941.573440.199660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
    > its likely not the trough switch it self but my guess too is that it is
    > in that circut if the score motor stops.
    >
    > look on the dia. for a switch in the trough circut that is effected by
    > the # of players and that is most likely your problem.
    >
    > btw the score motor is not the same as the score reels. the score motor
    > it the part in the cab that has cams on it. it will turn on and run
    > till the game is all reset.
    >
    > if it is still running than the problem is not likely the truogh but
    > something that has not reset.
    >
    > if the motor stops then the game has reset and the ball didn't kick out
    > cuz that circut is open somewhere.
    >
    > john
    >
    > www.kansascitypinball.com
    >
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    The trough switch activates the relay on the underside of the playfield and
    that is it. The outhole kicker does not activate.

    Select additional players and it works just fine.

    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "Grojohn" <carniello@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:1125091731.784760.273430@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    >I put the main board on top of machine, pf on side of machine. Plub in
    > all connectors and trouble shoot that way. Theres probable a stepper
    > unit for ball count. There should be a relay for outhole, tripping it
    > should make out hole kick.
    > Grojohn
    >
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Now I feel like I have some direction.


    I'm on it chief.

    Just printed up the schematics. Thanks Leon.

    I'll post back.


    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "kansas city pinball.com" <rgp@johncglennon.com> wrote in message
    news:1125098460.174659.285640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > this is how you find the problem
    >
    > 1 get a wire dia.
    >
    > 2 find the out hole coil on the dia.
    >
    > 3 look at all the switches in that circut
    > there are likely only 2 one on that relay the other on the score
    > motor but
    > there could be others.
    >
    > 4 clean and adj each.
    >
    > also williams are bad about solder cracks on coils. you might also try
    > to reflow the coil wires.
    >
    > also connectors are a problem. find your wire for the coil at the
    > connector and meter it.
    > or clean the connectors with a scuff pad.
    >
    >
    > john
    >
    > www.kansascitypinball.com
    >
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Found the eject coil on the schematic.


    There is the eject relay and there is another item called:

    M.B. (symbol here) 4-B

    The symbol is a vertical oval with three vertical lines(one long on left and
    2 short on right--all parallel) inside it and a horizontal line coming out
    of it.

    What does this mean on the schematic and where is this component located?


    Where do I find the connector for the coil? In the head or the cab?


    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "kansas city pinball.com" <rgp@johncglennon.com> wrote in message
    news:1125098460.174659.285640@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > this is how you find the problem
    >
    > 1 get a wire dia.
    >
    > 2 find the out hole coil on the dia.
    >
    > 3 look at all the switches in that circut
    > there are likely only 2 one on that relay the other on the score
    > motor but
    > there could be others.
    >
    > 4 clean and adj each.
    >
    > also williams are bad about solder cracks on coils. you might also try
    > to reflow the coil wires.
    >
    > also connectors are a problem. find your wire for the coil at the
    > connector and meter it.
    > or clean the connectors with a scuff pad.
    >
    >
    > john
    >
    > www.kansascitypinball.com
    >
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    On 2005-08-26 08:29:24 -0700, "Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> said:

    > 1972 Williams Fun-Fest
    >
    > My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
    > previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I
    > would start a new thread.
    >
    > Here are the problems I have found so far:
    >
    > 1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels
    > reset to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from
    > the trough. Other times is serves it up just fine.
    >
    > 2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime
    > post on one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers
    > but there were a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is
    > missing(center one) Gaskets all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers
    > that look like yellowed clear tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the
    > bottom of the chime box where there was some weatherstripping so they
    > would not move. Cleaned out the coil sleeves. Looking for any
    > hints/experience on replacing or rebuilding and any sources for parts.
    > Pictures also welcome.
    >
    > Otto
    >
    > CARGPB11
    >
    > My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    1) Listen to the game! Really. You will learn the difference between
    the sounds it makes while it is resetting and find the point where it
    seems to stop. Williams EM games don't reveal as much acoutically as
    Gottlieb EM during reset, but the time it takes to eject the ball once
    the reels are reset should be consistant. So, the reels spin to 0000,
    now if there are any drop targets they should all reset, and the main
    bank(s) should reset (Ka-CHUNK), then a small clunk and then the ball
    should eject to the shooter trough.

    So when listen for a while and try and hear the point where the game
    stops during the reset cycle - then turn to the schematic and ask for
    help.

    2) Welcome to restorations! You might be able to make your own parts to
    replace the missing - and some are avaialble from Pinball Resource, us,
    and other collectors. Chime bars I'm not sure about - someone should
    make those! They are simply aluminum bars (width, length & thickness
    matters here) that are cut to a specific length for the tone you want.

    John :-#)#
    --
    (Please post followups or tech enquires to the newsgroup) John's
    Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call
    (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
    www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they
    just flip out."
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    No drop targets or banks on this game.

    The outhole switch triggers a relay on the bottom of the playfield near the
    flipper assemblies. Even though the ball does not kick out, I can hear and
    see(if I raise the pf and activate the switch) that relay energize. I did
    find a wire on that relay that was disconnected. I resoldered that to the
    only empty lug(also the lug that the wire was next to and touching).

    I disassembled and cleaned the outhole kicker and put in a new sleeve(still
    had a metal one) but this did not fix the problem.

    I have all the chime bars. The chime box has a couple broken tabs that the
    bars slide over. I also am missing one of the chime retaining bars that go
    on top of the chime bars.


    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "John Robertson" <spam@flippers.com> wrote in message
    news:2005082613391427544%spam@flipperscom...
    > On 2005-08-26 08:29:24 -0700, "Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net>
    > said:
    >
    >> 1972 Williams Fun-Fest
    >>
    >> My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
    >> previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I would
    >> start a new thread.
    >>
    >> Here are the problems I have found so far:
    >>
    >> 1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels
    >> reset to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from
    >> the trough. Other times is serves it up just fine.
    >>
    >> 2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime post
    >> on one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers but there
    >> were a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is missing(center one)
    >> Gaskets all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers that look like yellowed
    >> clear tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the bottom of the chime box
    >> where there was some weatherstripping so they would not move. Cleaned out
    >> the coil sleeves. Looking for any hints/experience on replacing or
    >> rebuilding and any sources for parts. Pictures also welcome.
    >>
    >> Otto
    >>
    >> CARGPB11
    >>
    >> My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
    >
    > 1) Listen to the game! Really. You will learn the difference between the
    > sounds it makes while it is resetting and find the point where it seems to
    > stop. Williams EM games don't reveal as much acoutically as Gottlieb EM
    > during reset, but the time it takes to eject the ball once the reels are
    > reset should be consistant. So, the reels spin to 0000, now if there are
    > any drop targets they should all reset, and the main bank(s) should reset
    > (Ka-CHUNK), then a small clunk and then the ball should eject to the
    > shooter trough.
    >
    > So when listen for a while and try and hear the point where the game stops
    > during the reset cycle - then turn to the schematic and ask for help.
    >
    > 2) Welcome to restorations! You might be able to make your own parts to
    > replace the missing - and some are avaialble from Pinball Resource, us,
    > and other collectors. Chime bars I'm not sure about - someone should make
    > those! They are simply aluminum bars (width, length & thickness matters
    > here) that are cut to a specific length for the tone you want.
    >
    > John :-#)#
    > --
    > (Please post followups or tech enquires to the newsgroup) John's Jukes
    > Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757
    > or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com
    > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    I'll second this. My EM Night Rider had rubber washers that were
    basically rotted out, so I went to Home Depot and bought some of their
    felt picture hanger washers ($0.13 each or so) and some steel washers to
    fill in any extra space as needed. Sandwiched them as needed to fill
    the post, and it works great, and sounds nice and clear. I do need to
    go back and add a steel washer or two because there is some play in a
    bar that gives the chime a metallic knock when it's struck. I used the
    same trick years ago to repair a glockenspiel in college.

    Mike


    In article <BvudnZNav8Dw6JLeRVn-3g@comcast.com>,
    Cliffy <crinear@comcast.net> wrote:

    > someone on Martys EM yahoo group just tried felt washers for the chimes
    > and reported that the saound was better than with rubber. Something to
    > consider :)
    >
    > sean wrote:
    > > Check the switch for the ball through - sounds like a contact problem.
    > > Maybe dirty or misaligned?
    > >
    > > For the chimes, I've used old 5/8" rubber rings above and below the
    > > chimes, and then secured with a larger washer and nut on the top of the
    > > ring to hold it in place. They've always sounded great.
    > >
    > > - Sean
    > >
    > > Otto wrote:
    > >
    > >>1972 Williams Fun-Fest
    > >>
    > >>My first EM so it won't take much to go right over my head. Started a
    > >>previous thread as a manual request but has digressed so thought I would
    > >>start a new thread.
    > >>
    > >>Here are the problems I have found so far:
    > >>
    > >>1. When starting a one player game, the lights come up and the reels reset
    > >>to 00000, but sometimes the game will not serve up the ball from the trough.
    > >>Other times is serves it up just fine.
    > >>
    > >>2. No chime. Chime box is missing a center chime post and the chime post on
    > >>one of the outboard chimes is about shot. No plastic washers but there were
    > >>a couple metal ones. One chime retaining bar is missing(center one) Gaskets
    > >>all but gone. Only found 2 of the spacers that look like yellowed clear
    > >>tubing. Plungers were gunked up to the bottom of the chime box where there
    > >>was some weatherstripping so they would not move. Cleaned out the coil
    > >>sleeves. Looking for any hints/experience on replacing or rebuilding and any
    > >>sources for parts. Pictures also welcome.
    > >>
    > >>Otto
    > >>
    > >>CARGPB11
    > >>
    > >>My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
    > >
    > >
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    The outhole relay will have one switch in the stack that causes the
    score motor to run and pulse the solenoid that sends the ball into the
    shooter lane. That switch is probably dirty or has a cold solder joint.

    When you press the credit switch for additional players, the score
    motor is made to cycle again by a different relay to advance the player
    unit and decrement the credit unit. That additional score motor cycle
    allows the outhole solenoid to receive its pulse and open the circuit
    to the outhole relay.

    Kevin


    Otto wrote:
    > The score reels reset and the game is quiet except for the relay that is
    > energized by the ball in the trough. I can hear a slight buzz. If I remove
    > the ball and allow the switch to open, then the buzz stops. The trough
    > switch is sensing fine. It breaks down somewhere from the relay on down.
    >
    > Otto
    >
    > CARGPB11
    >
    > My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
    >
    > "kansas city pinball.com" <rgp@johncglennon.com> wrote in message
    > news:1125088941.573440.199660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
    > > its likely not the trough switch it self but my guess too is that it is
    > > in that circut if the score motor stops.
    > >
    > > look on the dia. for a switch in the trough circut that is effected by
    > > the # of players and that is most likely your problem.
    > >
    > > btw the score motor is not the same as the score reels. the score motor
    > > it the part in the cab that has cams on it. it will turn on and run
    > > till the game is all reset.
    > >
    > > if it is still running than the problem is not likely the truogh but
    > > something that has not reset.
    > >
    > > if the motor stops then the game has reset and the ball didn't kick out
    > > cuz that circut is open somewhere.
    > >
    > > john
    > >
    > > www.kansascitypinball.com
    > >
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Hey Kevin!!!!!

    Welcome to RGP.

    Mike O.
  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    I have located the outhole relay in the bottom of the cabinet and it has a
    stack of 5 different switches. The center switch is the one that sparks when
    the outhole coil fires.

    I used some fine medium emery paper and sanded each of the switches in that
    stack. Bad form?

    I will reflow all the solder joints(where the wire connects to the lugs) on
    that switch.

    The second paragraph is flying over my head due to my novice status on EMs
    and I feel like I am peering into thick fog.. It seems backwards to me. I
    thought the motor allowed the the outhole relay to energize which in turn
    fires the outhole solenoid. It seems to me like I see the relay energize
    before the solenoid fires.

    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    <kwing1000@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
    news:1125117410.066349.54780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > The outhole relay will have one switch in the stack that causes the
    > score motor to run and pulse the solenoid that sends the ball into the
    > shooter lane. That switch is probably dirty or has a cold solder joint.
    >
    > When you press the credit switch for additional players, the score
    > motor is made to cycle again by a different relay to advance the player
    > unit and decrement the credit unit. That additional score motor cycle
    > allows the outhole solenoid to receive its pulse and open the circuit
    > to the outhole relay.
    >
    > Kevin
    >
    >
    > Otto wrote:
    >> The score reels reset and the game is quiet except for the relay that is
    >> energized by the ball in the trough. I can hear a slight buzz. If I
    >> remove
    >> the ball and allow the switch to open, then the buzz stops. The trough
    >> switch is sensing fine. It breaks down somewhere from the relay on down.
    >>
    >> Otto
    >>
    >> CARGPB11
    >>
    >> My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
    >>
    >> "kansas city pinball.com" <rgp@johncglennon.com> wrote in message
    >> news:1125088941.573440.199660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
    >> > its likely not the trough switch it self but my guess too is that it is
    >> > in that circut if the score motor stops.
    >> >
    >> > look on the dia. for a switch in the trough circut that is effected by
    >> > the # of players and that is most likely your problem.
    >> >
    >> > btw the score motor is not the same as the score reels. the score motor
    >> > it the part in the cab that has cams on it. it will turn on and run
    >> > till the game is all reset.
    >> >
    >> > if it is still running than the problem is not likely the truogh but
    >> > something that has not reset.
    >> >
    >> > if the motor stops then the game has reset and the ball didn't kick out
    >> > cuz that circut is open somewhere.
    >> >
    >> > john
    >> >
    >> > www.kansascitypinball.com
    >> >
    >
  21. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    I've been making new ones for my WMS games for
    years. The material they used is a standard size and
    thickness. It can be purchased (cheap!), from local
    metal suppliers. It comes in 20ft lengths for a few bucks.

    (Bring a hacksaw.)

    Fred
    TX
    CARGPB#8
    ======================================


    "John Robertson" <spam@flippers.com> wrote in message news:2005082613391427544%spam@flipperscom...

    > 2) Welcome to restorations! You might be able to make your own parts to
    > replace the missing - and some are avaialble from Pinball Resource, us,
    > and other collectors. Chime bars I'm not sure about - someone should
    > make those! They are simply aluminum bars (width, length & thickness
    > matters here) that are cut to a specific length for the tone you want.
  22. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    I turn them upside down, and place them back in
    the cab to work on the bottom. Place the lockdown
    bar across the end to keep it from falling in.

    To work on the bottom motor board: Remove the pf
    entirely. Pull the motorboard out, and lay it crossways
    on the cab rails. Clean, repair, adjust everything and
    re-install.

    There is 115vac running around the cabs in many EMs,
    so appropriate precautions should be taken. High voltage
    can damage some stepper units and contacts.

    OTOH, there are few precious solid state circuit boards that
    can be damaged. ;)

    --
    Fred
    TX
    CARGPB#8
    ******************

    "Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote in

    >
    > How do you work on the thing? I can put the playfield up against the back
    > box. What if you need the playfield down but still want to get under it like
    > on a Wpc when you have it resting on the braces and on the front of the pin
    > cab.
    >
    > Can I poke around this thing with the power on? Where are the hazards?
  23. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Otto:

    That could be a clue.

    On your schematic at location 13-E there is a normally closed switch
    on the game over relay and the reset relay that feeds the line to ball
    release coil, center target relay, outhole relay and trough relay
    among others.

    Kevin
  24. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Otto:

    The eject coil is on the eject hole at the top of the playfield.

    M.B. Is the abbreviation for a make/break switch. It usually has a
    longer switch blade between two shorter ones. As the center blade is
    moved, it breaks contact with a short blade contact on one side before
    making contact with the short blade on the other side.

    The circular symbol around the schematic representation of the
    make/break switch indicates a switch actuated by a motor cam.

    4-B indicates the score motor cam number #4 Switch B. The numbering
    of the cams is confusing because the cam with two indentions in it at
    the beginning of the row of cams is called the index cam. Then the
    ones following it are numbered 1,2,3,4 etc. until you reach the cams at
    the other end with 10 bumps on them. They are called index cams. They
    give the machine the familiar 5 pulse heartbeat that you hear during
    resets. Each 180 degree rotation of a cam equals one score motor
    cycle. (Gottlieb is a 120 degree rotation per cycle.)

    The cam switches on the score motor are lettered from the closest to
    the cam out. So switch 4-B is on the fifth cam, second from the
    bottom. The schematic area 15 B shows the score motor cam switches and
    lists where the go which, in this case, pulses the eject coil.

    Kevin
  25. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    What is the bottom motor board?

    What has to be done to pull it out? Disconnect stuff? Screws?

    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
    news:deqp2e42ru0@enews2.newsguy.com...
    > To work on the bottom motor board: Remove the pf
    > entirely. Pull the motorboard out, and lay it crossways
    > on the cab rails. Clean, repair, adjust everything and
    > re-install.
    >
    > There is 115vac running around the cabs in many EMs,
    > so appropriate precautions should be taken. High voltage
    > can damage some stepper units and contacts.
  26. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    I went through all the relays on that line of the schematic and cleaned them
    with emery cloth. Checked all the wires properly connected.

    Game still has the intermittent problem.

    I did notice that when it happens, the center target and eject also do not
    register. These two relays are on that same line of the schematic as noted
    below.

    Does this fact narrow it down at all?


    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding


    "Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
    news:bP2Qe.10655$N1.9077@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
    >> When you look at your schematic for the problem, you are not looking
    >> at the circuit to the outhole solenoid, you are looking at the circuit
    >> for the score motor.
    >
    >
    > I find the score motor on the schematic at the juncture of section 4 and 5
    > on the schematic. This schematic is numbered from top to bottom on the
    > left hand side 1-24. Score motor is oon the far right side and going right
    > to left it goes through the service jack and then it branches to 7 to 10
    > lines depending how you count them. These are labeled "10c re", "25c re",
    > "eject re", "center target re", "M.B. ind-e", "coin re", outhole re",
    > "reset re", 3000 re", "spcl reel reset re".
  27. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Two or three large screws in the bottom. It is
    the piece of plywood in the bottom of the game
    that the motor and all the rest of the relays and
    such are bolted to. Most everything unplugs from
    it or is easily removed.

    This way, you don't have to stand on your head
    to work on everything... ;)

    --
    Fred
    TX
    CARGPB#8
    ******************


    "Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote

    > What is the bottom motor board?
    >
    > What has to be done to pull it out? Disconnect stuff? Screws?
    >
    > Otto
    >
    > CARGPB11
    >
    > My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
    >
    > "Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
    > news:deqp2e42ru0@enews2.newsguy.com...
    > > To work on the bottom motor board: Remove the pf
    > > entirely. Pull the motorboard out, and lay it crossways
    > > on the cab rails. Clean, repair, adjust everything and
    > > re-install.
    > >
    > > There is 115vac running around the cabs in many EMs,
    > > so appropriate precautions should be taken. High voltage
    > > can damage some stepper units and contacts.
    >
    >
  28. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    I checked and cleaned the game over relay and reset relay. Cycled the game
    on and off numerous times and I am unable to see any difference in the
    actuation of when it works and doesn't work. OR when going from 1 player to
    2.

    The only thing I see that changes is the score motor cycling.

    I may be looking right at the problem. Maybe I need to clean the contacts
    better.

    I don't know.

    Anybody want to play "will it sink or float"?

    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    <kwing1000@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
    news:1125193620.378039.89080@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > Otto:
    >
    > That could be a clue.
    >
    > On your schematic at location 13-E there is a normally closed switch
    > on the game over relay and the reset relay that feeds the line to ball
    > release coil, center target relay, outhole relay and trough relay
    > among others.
    >
    > Kevin
    >
  29. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Don't be so impatient.....

    My first EM took almost two months to "get right". It
    is still reliable to this day.

    Tighten every switch stack screw you find, clean and
    adjust everything. Make sure that you can operate all
    stepper mechs by hand, and they move freely. Make
    sure all contacts "wipe" when they make. Look for loose,
    broken wires. (Especially around the score reels on WMS.)

    You will be an expert too when you are done. :)

    --
    Fred
    TX
    CARGPB#8
    ******************


    "Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:aTaQe.11685$2_.9305@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
    > I checked and cleaned the game over relay and reset relay. Cycled the game
    > on and off numerous times and I am unable to see any difference in the
    > actuation of when it works and doesn't work. OR when going from 1 player to
    > 2.
    >
    > The only thing I see that changes is the score motor cycling.
    >
    > I may be looking right at the problem. Maybe I need to clean the contacts
    > better.
    >
    > I don't know.
    >
    > Anybody want to play "will it sink or float"?
  30. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Below is the Williams start up sequence .

    Thanks to marvin.com

    Williams Start-Up Sequence.

    1.. When the start button is pressed, the credit unit is decremented. This
    is done through the credit unit zero position switch and the 2nd coin relay
    (and the ball count zero position switch).
    2.. The end of stroke (EOS) switch on the credit unit decrement coil will
    energized the coin relay.
    3.. The coin relay will trip the game over relay.
    4.. The coin relay will energized the reset relay. The score motor will
    run.
    5.. The reset relay will energized the ball count unit reset, through the
    score motor.
    6.. The reset relay energizes the 2nd coin relay latch and game over relay
    latch coils.
    7.. The reset relay will energize the score reset relays, through the
    score motor.
    8.. The score reel reset relays will zero the score reels, through the
    score motor. The score motor will continue to active the score reset relays
    until all the score reels reach the zero position.
    9.. The reset relay activates the bonus unit coil until the bonus unit
    zero position switch is activated.
    10.. When the bonus relay drops out, the outhole relay is energized
    through a different bonus unit zero switch and score motor switch.
    11.. The outhole relay will run the score motor. The bonus unit will step
    up once. The ball will be kicked to the shooter lane.

    I think mine breaks down somewhere from steps 9 to 11.

    What/where is the bonus unit?


    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
    news:dereqt0s21@enews2.newsguy.com...
    > Don't be so impatient.....
    >
    > My first EM took almost two months to "get right". It
    > is still reliable to this day.
    >
    > Tighten every switch stack screw you find, clean and
    > adjust everything. Make sure that you can operate all
    > stepper mechs by hand, and they move freely. Make
    > sure all contacts "wipe" when they make. Look for loose,
    > broken wires. (Especially around the score reels on WMS.)
    >
    > You will be an expert too when you are done. :)
    >
    > --
    > Fred
    > TX
    > CARGPB#8
    > ******************
    >
    >
    > "Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
    > news:aTaQe.11685$2_.9305@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
    >> I checked and cleaned the game over relay and reset relay. Cycled the
    >> game
    >> on and off numerous times and I am unable to see any difference in the
    >> actuation of when it works and doesn't work. OR when going from 1 player
    >> to
    >> 2.
    >>
    >> The only thing I see that changes is the score motor cycling.
    >>
    >> I may be looking right at the problem. Maybe I need to clean the contacts
    >> better.
    >>
    >> I don't know.
    >>
    >> Anybody want to play "will it sink or float"?
    >
    >
    >
  31. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    The bonus unit, (IF it has one), is the unit that adds the bonus
    points after the ball drains. The bonus is built up by hitting the
    proper targets, and it will step UP accordingly. It will count down
    the points. Upon reaching zero, the game progresses to the next
    step. Often this unit is located on the underside of the pf if there
    is indeed a bonus countdown feature. Look on the playfield for
    incremental bonus amounts.
    --
    Fred
    TX
    CARGPB#8
    ******************


    "Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:UTbQe.11690
    > I think mine breaks down somewhere from steps 9 to 11.
    >
    > What/where is the bonus unit?
    >
    >
  32. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Ahh yes. The Zen of EMs.

    You must have patience Otto, there is a disturbance in the flow, it
    calls out to you, listen...

    bogart
    www.pinrestore.com


    Fred Kemper wrote:
    > Don't be so impatient.....
    >
    > My first EM took almost two months to "get right". It
    > is still reliable to this day.
    >
    > Tighten every switch stack screw you find, clean and
    > adjust everything. Make sure that you can operate all
    > stepper mechs by hand, and they move freely. Make
    > sure all contacts "wipe" when they make. Look for loose,
    > broken wires. (Especially around the score reels on WMS.)
    >
    > You will be an expert too when you are done. :)
    >
    > --
    > Fred
    > TX
    > CARGPB#8
    > ******************
    >
    >
    > "Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:aTaQe.11685$2_.9305@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
    >
    >>I checked and cleaned the game over relay and reset relay. Cycled the game
    >>on and off numerous times and I am unable to see any difference in the
    >>actuation of when it works and doesn't work. OR when going from 1 player to
    >>2.
    >>
    >>The only thing I see that changes is the score motor cycling.
    >>
    >>I may be looking right at the problem. Maybe I need to clean the contacts
    >>better.
    >>
    >>I don't know.
    >>
    >>Anybody want to play "will it sink or float"?
    >
    >
    >
    >
  33. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    I want my test menu.


    Give me transistors or give me..................


    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "bogart" <pinrestore@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:F1cQe.2552$Wd7.1550@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    > Ahh yes. The Zen of EMs.
    >
    > You must have patience Otto, there is a disturbance in the flow, it calls
    > out to you, listen...
  34. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    There is a unit with the spider like thing under the Pf. It had 2 wires
    disconnected. One was for a bonus feature light. I resoldered that and now
    the light works. Not sure what the other one was. I resoldered it to an
    empty lug on that board.

    That spider runs continuously during play until the bonus is selected by
    hitting one of two targets.


    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
    news:derjl902ev@enews1.newsguy.com...
    >
    > The bonus unit, (IF it has one), is the unit that adds the bonus
    > points after the ball drains. The bonus is built up by hitting the
    > proper targets, and it will step UP accordingly. It will count down
    > the points. Upon reaching zero, the game progresses to the next
    > step. Often this unit is located on the underside of the pf if there
    > is indeed a bonus countdown feature. Look on the playfield for
    > incremental bonus amounts.
  35. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    two things that may help you, it made me nuts on a williams e/m . one
    ,check the stepper unit for the bonus , as some else mentions. the shaft
    the metal contact unit( spider) sits on gets gummed up, and it wont move
    correctly. you can activated the solenoids on it by hand. it should step
    up nicely with one soleniod, and step down nicely with the other. the
    stepping down action is the unit actually unwinding one tooth at a time,
    as the soleniod mechanism lift off one tooth at a time. if the unit its
    very sticky, it wont unwind. bbefore you take it a part note carefully
    the position of the spider, you dont want to put it on backwards, also
    note thhe position of the long pin sticking oout of the geat, that will
    rest against a contact switch when its in the home position. the other
    thing, not uncommom, check all the stacks in the score motor. sometimes
    on of the little white spacers betweeen the end of each stack switch
    falls out. if that happens, they do the wackiest things. the schematic
    shows the spacers. i believe every single stack should have a spacer. i
    made one out of a wood dowel and super glued it on.

    --
    Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
    http://www.gamernewsgroups.com
  36. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    > The bonus unit, (IF it has one), is the unit that adds the bonus
    > points after the ball drains.

    Otto,

    Swinger/Fun Fest does have bonus. It counts down whatever value is currently
    lit on the swing reel (1000, 3000, 5000 )

    I have a Swinger and I've been following this thread yesterday at work. If
    you still need a manual, I have a Swinger manual ( should be the same ) but
    it's a hard copy - but it's not as valuable as the new Williams manuals, I
    think you'll be dissapointed. It mostly covers things like setting the free
    play score, number of balls, etc.and is probably only 20 pages or so. I can
    scan if you want.

    As far as the chime unit - I can get you pics of mine. It works, except the
    middle chine (100's) was broken. I managed to get another chime box, so I
    may have some extra parts that you might need.

    You're helping me learn some things myself - as I have to clean the step
    unit which is gummed up, but haven't had the nerve to take it apart yet to
    clean. Definately have no EM repair experience, but a similiar game to take
    pics for you if you wish. This game should be complete - I've had it since I
    was a kid. We got it as a family christmas present back in 76 and I still
    have that game - and it works (almost) 100% - Imagine HUO for almost 30
    years !

    Devon
  37. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    there are probably a lot of empty lugs on that board. you really need to
    look hard at it and solder those wires correctly. i dont think the
    schematic will show the board lugs, but the operators manual will. the
    chances of you soldering the two wires to the correct lugs are not
    high. doing it wrong can create more problems than you had and make it
    way harder to daignose.

    --
    Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
    http://www.gamernewsgroups.com
  38. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    The one wire I know I got correct. 100% sure.

    The other I am not sure.

    Decided to try and clean the various stepper boards with 3m pads and
    alcohol. A couple boards in the bottom back of the cabinet and the bonus one
    under the Pf.

    Things are going from bad to worse.

    Now the game starts at 4 players.

    Bonus doesn't advance correctly. I am pretty sure this is simply a missing
    spring.

    Feature lights at the top of the playfield changed with every switch
    activiation. I am pretty sure that is wrong.

    This thing is quickly turning into a worthless pile of plywood and wire.

    Ya gotta love Em pinball machines.

    Anybody need parts?


    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "mike hooker" <mhooker@optonline.net> wrote in message
    news:klnQe.36$h01.7302@news.uswest.net...
    > there are probably a lot of empty lugs on that board. you really need to
    > look hard at it and solder those wires correctly. i dont think the
    > schematic will show the board lugs, but the operators manual will. the
    > chances of you soldering the two wires to the correct lugs are not
    > high. doing it wrong can create more problems than you had and make it
    > way harder to daignose.
  39. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    I don't have a manual so I feel like I am sort of swinging in the dark
    with
    a wet noodle. I need to make sure we are talking about the same relays.


    Thanks in advance for the patience.


    Left/right/top/bottom when standing in the playing position


    Underside of the playfield. With the playfield up against the backbox,
    there
    is a relay at the the top above the left flipper mechanism that closes
    when
    I actuate the outhole switch in the trough. It is labeled "ball trough
    relay" with a sticker on the underside of the Pf.


    There is also a relay in the bottom of the cabinet to the right of the

    score motor(playing position) labeled "outhole relay". It is a stack of
    5
    groupls of switches which are moved simultaneousl when the relay
    attached to
    it actuates. That is the one that closes when the solenoid fires
    properly.
    The center switch sparks when it closes. When the outhole is not
    serving the
    ball, this is relay is not activating.


    I also notice that when I actuate the trough switch in the trough, a
    relay
    on the inside of the coin door actuates. The relay is to the right of
    the
    right hand coin mech. Does this have anything to do with anything? The
    game
    is apparently set on free play with no coin mechs but when that coin
    door
    relay actuates it moves two wire rods that stick out from the coin door
    into
    the cabinet area where the mechs would be.


    Otto:

    OK I was confused here with you. You are saying that the trough
    relay stays energized with a ball in the outhole and that sometimes the
    outhole relay does not energize and serve the ball. I was thinking that
    you were saying that the outhole relay was staying energized but the
    score motor would not run at that point to pulse the "Ball Release
    Coil" ,which is what they seem to be referring to what Gottlieb would
    call the "Ball Return" or "Outhole" solenoid. (In the 1974-75 Williams
    parts catalog they refer to that assembly as the "New Automatic Ball
    Return Assembly".) To further complicate matters, the schematic has a
    "Ball Return" coil on the left outlane which on the parts catalog is
    called a "Kicker Assembly". Which is not to be confused with the "L.
    Kicker" or the "R. Kicker" (Slingshot Kickers) Then, of course, there
    is the eject solenoid on the eject hole which, I think, is where you
    were following the schematic when looking for "Ball Release Coil".

    Everyone who is lost at this point, please raise your hands.

    Me too.

    Lets backup to the outhole relay. When you are in the error
    condition, (Trough relay on, outhole relay off, ball sitting in the
    outhole) If you manually push in the outhole relay, does the score
    motor run and the ball move to the shooter lane? I'm assuming yes.

    On another post you said "I did notice that when it happens, the
    center target and eject also do not register. These two relays are on
    that same line of the schematic as noted
    below."

    If you follow the line to the left from the outhole relay to where it
    turns upwards, notice the tie point at the center target relay. Go up
    the right turn and notice the tie point going down and right to the
    eject relay. Go back to the tie point and notice a jump arrow pointing
    up to W-Blu @ C-3. This leads to the score motor index cam (The first
    one with the two indentions.) Switch E. (The top one on the stack.) I
    believe that the schematic is wrong at this point. Otherwise the
    enabling relays would be deenergized when the solenoid firing pulse is
    sent. I compared another schematic from the same era (Gulfstream) and
    the jump arrow goes to R-BR@C2 (Note that there is also a jump to
    that point) We are now at score motor cam 5 switch A which is marked 5
    plays-25 cents on the schematic. (Same on Gulfstream) This switch
    supplies power to these three relays for one cycle (1/2 revolution) of
    the score motor and then interrupts it. Note that these three relays
    being pulled in enables the corresponding solenoids to be fired by a
    pulse from cam #4. Switch A (Ball Release) and Switch B (Eject) with
    the center target being on the index cam.

    Check, clean or adjust Cam switch 5A.

    Now for my approach to reviving to old EM machines that haven't been
    used in years. I don't even try to plug it in and start troubleshooting
    all of the many synptoms that it will exhibit before working on it.
    (Warning! This may not be the best approach for everyone.)
    I will pull the relay board out of the bottom of the cabinet and put
    it on the workbench with a good magnifying swing arm light.
    I will recover all of the screws and other random hardware from the
    bottom of the cabinet and put it in a zip lock bag until I find where
    they came from. I will use a vacuum cleaner with an upholstery brush
    in one hand and a typewriter brush in the other to carefully clean so
    as not to bend any switch blades. I will follow that with canned air
    or an air compressor for hard to reach areas. If there is evidence of
    staining in the plywood or switch stack insulators from contact cleaner
    or WD-40 use, you might consider joining a support group for "Special
    Needs Pinball Machines" because your problems will be many. I will
    usuually replace the line cord, add grounds if none exist, check fuses
    and condition of fuse holders. I will add an on/off switch if none
    exists.
    I will systematically tighten every switch stack, look for solder
    splash that may be bridging switch blades, flexstone file every contact
    (Point file on tungsten), ohm out any that look to have been hot, check
    point gap and wiping action with a magnifying glass. I will tug on
    every wire solder connection. I will disassemble, clean and lightly
    lube every stepper unit.

    The head will get similar attention with every score reel and stepper
    being disassembled and cleaned.

    For playfield servicing I made a simple frame for my workbench that
    allows me to set it on it either side up for easier access to remove
    most everything from the topside, cleaning and ziplock bagging as I go.
    (Digital camera. Wonderful invention.)

    Skipping ahead, when assembled and power up after doing all of this,
    you should only have to deal with a couple of minor adjustmant
    problems. (A score reel that doesn't reset correctly etc.) Relibility
    increases dramatically and your frustration level decreases from
    repeatedly having to look under the hood for some sluggish stepper
    problem or endlessly readjusting switches that are dirty and loose.

    I'm looking foward to hearing what eventually resolves the problems
    that you are having.

    Kevin
  40. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    My bonus stepper only has one solenoid.

    Should it have two?


    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "mike hooker" <mhooker@optonline.net> wrote in message
    news:ckkQe.14$h01.3899@news.uswest.net...
    > two things that may help you, it made me nuts on a williams e/m . one
    > ,check the stepper unit for the bonus , as some else mentions. the shaft
    > the metal contact unit( spider) sits on gets gummed up, and it wont move
    > correctly. you can activated the solenoids on it by hand. it should step
    > up nicely with one soleniod, and step down nicely with the other. the
    > stepping down action is the unit actually unwinding one tooth at a time,
    > as the soleniod mechanism lift off one tooth at a time. if the unit its
    > very sticky, it wont unwind. bbefore you take it a part note carefully
    > the position of the spider, you dont want to put it on backwards, also
    > note thhe position of the long pin sticking oout of the geat, that will
    > rest against a contact switch when its in the home position. the other
    > thing, not uncommom, check all the stacks in the score motor. sometimes
    > on of the little white spacers betweeen the end of each stack switch
    > falls out. if that happens, they do the wackiest things. the schematic
    > shows the spacers. i believe every single stack should have a spacer. i
    > made one out of a wood dowel and super glued it on.
    >
    > --
    > Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
    > http://www.gamernewsgroups.com
  41. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    get your meter out and verify 0 ohms on stepper units with wiper
    fingers. I have seen 5 ohms and greater cause problems. Patience...you
    will get it to function correctly, I guarantee it!
  42. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Make sure I have this correct.

    Measure the resistance with one lead on the board and one lead on the
    finger?

    Check each finger?

    Essentially checking for blockage(resistance) between the finger and the
    board?


    I wish I felt as confident as you do. I feel like the pingods have opened up
    a can of "whip arse" on me.


    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "Grojohn" <carniello@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:1125284401.524289.120270@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > get your meter out and verify 0 ohms on stepper units with wiper
    > fingers. I have seen 5 ohms and greater cause problems. Patience...you
    > will get it to function correctly, I guarantee it!
    >
  43. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    hi, i would think so. there should be one to make it count up, and one
    to make it count down. it has to be able to go both ways, otherwise,
    what would be the point of it. if the there arent two coils, and there
    are supposed to be two, then at least the arm the coil operates ought to
    be there, unless someone gutted that too. i think you said you have a
    schematic, it should show if there are two. the williams operators
    manuals have nice pictures of them, showing the various postions. both
    my willinams machines, all of the stepper units( ball count, player,
    credit wheel) have two solenoids. if you are missing one, you should be
    able to somehow manually get the stepper to the home position. i would
    say home would be when the big pin on the side of the gear rests on the
    switch , opening it. if the unit isnt on the home position, the machime
    wont reset properly. that was one of the big issues on mine. all the
    paers wewre there, but it was so gummed up, it would count up, but not
    down. when i fixed that, i had a machine that would reset and eject a
    ball into the shooter. after that, i fixed all the other stuff.

    --
    Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
    http://www.gamernewsgroups.com
  44. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Spent some time with marvin and decided I needed to remove and clean the
    boards on the stepper units.

    I did the two in the bottom of the cabinet(coin unit and ball count unit)
    and the one on the underside of the playfield.

    Scrubbed them shiney with 3m pad and wiped them down with alcohol.

    Reassembled.

    It's worse now.

    No game over light. Game starts up at the same number of players as the last
    game. Eject hole rarely works. Game doesn't always count the balls. Outhole
    kicker seems to feed the ball a little better but still goes dead
    frequently. Center target rarely works much like the eject hole.


    Feels like a death spiral.

    :>)


    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
  45. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    the contacts and board really have to be in bad shape to benefit from
    that type of cleaning. the fact that it is worse isnt from it being
    cleaner, its from incorrect assembly or indexing. my steppers, the
    contacts werent the problem, it was that they rotated poorly due to crud
    on the shaft. honestly, you should not do anything else until you get
    the operator manual. the pics of the steppers will really clear things
    up. if your bonus stepper isnt at the start position( usually 1000), the
    machine wont work. if the ball count stepper is off, the ball count will
    be wacky, but the machine should run or be close to running. also be
    sure you have some credits on the credit wheel steeper. dont force the
    wheel, actuate the coil mechanisms by hand to advance it. get the
    steppers in the correct places and you will be on your way. what are the
    correct positions? they are in the operator manual.

    --
    Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
    http://www.gamernewsgroups.com
  46. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    I ordered a Fun-Fest manual from Pbr.

    Steve said it was a copy.

    Is this the operator manual?


    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "mike hooker" <mhooker@optonline.net> wrote in message
    news:cdvQe.63$h01.14456@news.uswest.net...
    >get the
    > steppers in the correct places and you will be on your way. what are the
    > correct positions? they are in the operator manual.
  47. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    hi, should be the correct manual. 99% percent of them are copies. i get
    mine from another guy, and though i'm syre they are copies, they look
    and feel like orig. dommt mess with the machine till you read the
    manual a few times.

    --
    Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
    http://www.gamernewsgroups.com
  48. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    I think that is sound advice.


    Otto

    CARGPB11

    My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

    "mike hooker" <mhooker@optonline.net> wrote in message
    news:KxDQe.3$nn2.635@news.uswest.net...
    > dommt mess with the machine till you read the
    > manual a few times.
  49. Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

    Otto:

    Is there any chance that one of the Jones plugs is now properly
    plugged in? I have seen them shoved in to where the pins were in
    between the sockets. A loose bit of hardware falling from the
    playfield onto a relay switch in the bottom of the cabinet can cause
    shorts. (I sometimes take the relay board out and shake it upside down
    to find stray hardware) Solder splash dripped from the playfield onto
    the relay board is a possibility. The jones plugs in the head make a
    nice little catch tray for forign parts as well. Revisit the last
    place you were before this happened. Both 6 and 24 volts coexist on
    the stepper units. I use scotchbright and alcohol to clean the rivets.
    Steel wool is evil.

    Kevin
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