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POPE meets THE MAN FROM DELL

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August 21, 2004 10:54:48 AM

Well my sister wanted me to build her a PC....
Computer show was in full effect this weekend ...so we went

we are looking around... ia m guaging prices and the like..

well DELL has a lil set up there..and a salesman was pitching a DELL to my sis.

I guess he assumed i didnt know any better...so i let him pitch...then i asked him.. "why would she buy a slow intel machine when I can get her a faster AMD machine for less"

he said " no Intel is much faster than AMD"

I said " you mean like in doom 3"

Then he get the hint that i know my [-peep-]...he then was like " oh well in gaming AMD is faster...but in business INTEL is faster"

so he tried to get my sis to buy a 800 dollar DELL with 128 megs of ram and the almighty powerful "INTEL 64 meg EXTREME GRAPHICS"

Well as i pulled my sis away and took her to a nice AMD vendor... The DELL man looked at me with death in his eyes....i read his lips.. he said " damn AMD bastard"...

and i use INTEL.... lol

anyway
got my sis a

tbred 2400+
asus via 400M with built in uni chrome VGA
256 megs ram
40 gig 7200 maxtor HDD
52 x Burner
used 17" black compaq monitor
modem
mouse
keyboard

total price
348.00

More about : pope meets man dell

August 21, 2004 11:00:37 AM

Funny how that works. I myself am an AMD man but I work at a retailer that obviously prefers INTEL. It really hurts my conscience when people ask me if they are getting the best possible machine for the best possible price, so I just silently nod knowing they are paying way more for brand name.
August 21, 2004 11:47:28 AM

Quote:

I guess he assumed i didnt know any better...so i let him pitch...then i asked him.. "why would she buy a slow intel machine when I can get her a faster AMD machine for less"

So true, so funny :o )

Me myself had a long discussion on the pfone with a Dell salesman.
I was interested in renewing all my workstation in my fantasy busines.
When i told him i was interested in what AMD was ofering and where to find the AMD solution on there site they told me i could compare a Athlon64 with a Celeron, i asked, what ??? well in cache ! oooooooooooooookaaayyy... i was silenced there on the fone, can tell you that

And 64 bit from AMD is no real 64 bit, and Intel would never ever copy 64 bit from AMD.
And Intel was way faster then AMD.

I promised that i would send him links where i could prove him i was richt and he was wrong.
This done they sudenly called me saying that Dell is so succesfully because the way they work, i told him i wanted the fastest for the best price ! i dont care haw a company works !
One thing is for sure, they would not let go, they wanted to sell me Workstations.

I had phoned with 2 salesman because the first one did not know much about CPU`s and the salesmanager because i accused them from misinforming the customers.

Funny guys those Dell people.


Toms Hardware Site is a joke !
Looks like intel spent more on bribing reviewers to cover up it aint that great than they did in R&D, you know what im talking about Tom !
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August 21, 2004 3:15:38 PM

Haha, what did the sales manager have to say about the accusation?

AMD 64 3400+
MSI K8N Neo Platinum
1 GB Kingston HyperX PC3200
ATI AIW 9600XT
WD Raptor 74GB
August 21, 2004 4:03:42 PM

Quote:
Funny how that works. I myself am an AMD man but I work at a retailer that obviously prefers INTEL. It really hurts my conscience when people ask me if they are getting the best possible machine for the best possible price, so I just silently nod knowing they are paying way more for brand name.



man..

this is why i quit my first job a few years ago

was doing computer repair or a private owned computer store. they tried to get me to do sales as well... the typical system they sold at the time was a:

800mhz Celeron2
128megs sdr
some crap-ass Aopen mobo
20gig Samsung HDD

for the price they sold these at , i could build a 1ghz AMD machine with a GF2 graphics card and 256 megs/ram, and still maintain their markup. thy nearly fired me because they didnt want to sell AMD period.. i cant do sales, its like lieing and stealing from people

-------
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Brand name whores are stupid!
August 21, 2004 4:59:28 PM

Not much, they find it hard to believe AMD would be that faster, they would send me slides where AMD is compared to Intel but i never saw them.
Then they came with the argument that the way they work is superior and they slaughter(they used that word) HP,Compaq and IBM.
I told them i was interested in the speed and use of a workstation, not haw they deliver them or whatever.



Toms Hardware Site is a joke !
Looks like intel spent more on bribing reviewers to cover up it aint that great than they did in R&D, you know what im talking about Tom !
August 21, 2004 7:48:51 PM

Good man.

When you are talking about knowing your shiit by the way and referring to your self it is a Capitol I not i.

Barton 3200+ 400MHz
A7N8X Deluxe
Air Cooled 45C
2x512 Corsair DDR 400 PC3200
GeForce FX5900
Two Maxtor 40Gig 8MB cach 7200rpm
SONY RW 52x/24x/52x
SONY DVD 16x/40x
August 21, 2004 8:20:18 PM

You bought a 2400+ even though anything from Intels C line of Pentium 4's runs most software titles and applications much better and costs about the same.

True AMD junky would have bought a A64.

Xeon

<font color=red>Post created with being a dickhead in mind.</font color=red>
<font color=white>For all emotional and slanderous statements contact THG for all law suits.</font color=white>
August 21, 2004 10:26:00 PM

Quote:
asus via 400M with built in uni chrome VGA


Yes, VIA's onboard graphics are vastly superior to Intel's, right?

[rollseyes]

Should have at least bought an nForce-based mobo with integrated graphics... at least that would have been a superior solution.


<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
August 21, 2004 10:43:50 PM

He bought it for 1/2 the price you twit

AMD 64 3400+
MSI K8N Neo Platinum
1 GB Kingston HyperX PC3200
ATI AIW 9600XT
WD Raptor 74GB
August 21, 2004 10:55:53 PM

Read it again, you twit.

I didn't say anything about getting the Intel-based Dell system... what I DID say was if you were going to get an AMD system, at least get a decent system. Very nice price, but I still would have splurged for a better mobo.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
August 22, 2004 4:39:04 AM

Quote:
You bought a 2400+ even though anything from Intels C line of Pentium 4's runs most software titles and applications much better and costs about the same.

That $800 DELL was probably came with Celeron

------------
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August 22, 2004 4:59:25 AM

I am not a fan of the uni-chrome... but the show didnt have but a few vendors and it was the best intergrated board there...

she plans on a nice 6600 in the future so it didnt matter
August 22, 2004 5:00:40 PM

I plan on a nice 5/6 with blond instead of Silver hair :wink:

Hey what colour eyes does she have. I can buy her everything she wants.

Barton 3200+ 400MHz
A7N8X Deluxe
Air Cooled 45C
2x512 Corsair DDR 400 PC3200
GeForce FX5900
Two Maxtor 40Gig 8MB cach 7200rpm
SONY RW 52x/24x/52x
SONY DVD 16x/40x
August 22, 2004 8:00:32 PM

this stuff is halarious. i work at the best pc repair shop in town. we fix all the amd crap everybody else sells and sell intel boxes with intel boards and hardly ever have to touch them. when i first started working there we sold almost all amd crap and we always had to [-peep-] with it. what a pain in the ass. save somebody some money and then we lose money fixing the bullshit plus we look like idiots. we sold 80 intel boxes to a school and had a problem with 2(power supplys). its not all about sticker price its the price over 3 years. and time is also money. i'd rather not mail cd's with via updates to my customers every month but that's just me. if you want to build yourself a kick ass a64 machine that's awesome but i don't want to sell one to a dumb ass that doesn't know how to use a computer or a business that could give a flying [-peep-] how fast the machine runs linpack or home many fps they get in doom 3. they just want a machine that will WORK all the time. that's exactly why dell doesn't sell amd and why they make alot of money.
August 22, 2004 9:38:41 PM

Quote:
we sold almost all amd crap

I bet you really mean <i>VIA</i> crap.

---
Epox 8RDA+ V1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @200x10 (~2Ghz), 1.4 Vcore
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Sapphire 9800Pro (VGA Silencer Rev3) @418/742
August 22, 2004 10:20:32 PM

wlel thats intersting, since today the old saying aobut amd systems being less reliable isnt as true anymore. ive been running my business for 2 years and my amd systems havent shown any problems more thne the intel systems, all have been reliable over the long term. ive had bad motherbaords here or there, even a couple power supplies blow, but nothing one sided.

its fine if you personally had problems, but that doesnt mean you can make a blanket statement about the whole thing, cuase it just isnt true overall.
August 23, 2004 12:19:09 AM

IF THE PLACE YOU WORKED COULDNT BUILD RELIABLE AMD RIGS...AMYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE HIRE PEOPLE WHO KNEW WHAT THEY ARE DOING INSTEAD OF INTELLIOT PRE-SCHOOLERS WITH SCREWDRIVERS LIKE YOURSELF
August 23, 2004 1:14:48 AM

Quote:
this stuff is halarious. i work at the best pc repair shop in town. we fix all the amd crap everybody else sells and sell intel boxes with intel boards and hardly ever have to touch them



funny but every AMD box i built is sitll running (well, the ones that i keep track of..) , a few have been for years.

its not the CPU's fault if motherboard manufactuers release shitty chipsets

-------
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Brand name whores are stupid!
August 23, 2004 1:24:38 AM

Well, if I'd be running a store, I'd make the difference between Intel and AMD only in business vs home use.

Why?

An AMD is really stable and doesn't need that mych more hardware maintainance, if someone is there to care for the system. A home user that wants to to take all out of his $, always gets the latest drivers etc., a company wants reliable material out-of-the-box - because maintaining the systems takes time, and time is $.

I'm not just giving my opinion here, but my experience as IT manager. It's just not possible for your average company to always hire an IT pro for their PC's, so they mostly go for a solution like Dell - they do are more reliable out of the box, and you pay more - for support etc. in case of a crash.
We have about 800 clients that hire PC's from us, we still have to give them support. That's why we used to choose MSI & intel ~600-1200 Mhz back when they were out, and use Shuttle SFF cubes now. They have their downsides, but generally work quite stable - and I just try to put the failures in a database, not correct all of them myself, this is just way too time-consuming. If it isn't fixed after 1.5h of tinkering, I send it back to our dealer for repair, and ask him to report the failure to me.

I spend more than 24h/week on just repairing and assembling (though RIS helps me a lot). And our number of clients keeps growing. Can I alone give all tech support for more than 1000 systems?

For your average company it isn't that simple to hire an IT pro. The pro's that come out of school don't always have the experience (not all of them tinker around at home), and already want to earn big bucks before they've proven themselves, and the ones without degree but with lots of experience (such as myself) don't have a clear way of proving themself to your average 40y old manager (they don't have a clue what criteria could be important). I just was lucky that our government encourages situations like mine, and so I got the chance to give it a go - after 6 months of 'try-out' I got a contract, now I work there for a year and just had a raise.
Still, there aren't many young guys like me that get that chance and make it happen. That's why companies like to rely on ther respected companies which are, in their turn, sponsored by those big evil bastards like Intel and Micro$oft.
We can only encourage AMD and Linux winning territory, and, if you like the idea of a Dell-like company using cheaper but equally performing AMD solutions - why don't you create that company yourself...

It's easy to biatch from your position, but it's been like this for ages and the dot com issue didn't do companies any good, try to see it from a fragile manager's POV.

If more young fanatics like us are hired to do what Dell does - making reliable systems and give service to them - companies would realize that the can get personal care, tailored systems, custom setups, and they can pay the extra guy from savings they get from the hardware. Period. This, though, is an intellectual shift, a change of state-of-mind, as the facts are already there... The market just needs to mature, that's a generation issue - we are raised with IT, the average company founder isn't.

All IMHO of course, who am I to judge those billion $ makers...
August 23, 2004 1:51:57 AM

At my job all vhipset from via have fail the quality test you got what you pay for.

i need to change useur name.
August 23, 2004 12:02:02 PM

Quote:

i work at the best pc repair shop in town

Very hard to believe.
Quote:

when i first started working there we sold almost all amd crap and we always had to [-peep-] with it.

Why diddnt you put a decent mainboard in it ?
Quote:

plus we look like idiots

You look now like idiots because you refuse to sell AMD, whyle the customer realy wants AMD if you tell him the advantage over a Intel based system.
Quote:

i'd rather not mail cd's with via updates to my customers every month but that's just me.

Those via drivers are old if i recall, its not like nvidia that they bring out new graphics drivers every month.
Quote:

i don't want to sell one to a dumb ass that doesn't know how to use a computer or a business that could give a flying [-peep-] how fast the machine runs linpack or home many fps they get in doom 3. they just want a machine that will WORK all the time.

Not true, if a friend or someone i know buy`s such a intel system i and other people who do know something about computers will tell him he could have much better and faster for the same/cheaper price, i dont think he will come to your store again.



Toms Hardware Site is a joke !
Looks like intel spent more on bribing reviewers to cover up it aint that great than they did in R&D, you know what im talking about Tom !
Anonymous
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August 23, 2004 2:02:55 PM

Good points I agree with you, I work as a tech in a compagny with about 250 Pc and their all Intel - Compaq/Hp Pc and Im pretty happy its that way...Much faster too troubleshoot.
Altough I would never buy that for my personal use!


Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, Leadtek FX5900 w/ FX5950U bios@500/1000, 2X30gig Raid0
August 23, 2004 3:48:54 PM

Quote:
I bet you really mean VIA crap.

Well, with AMD processors you HAVE to include another manufacturer's chipset... that has historically been a drawback with AMD processors all along.

Heck, I'd say the KT333 was competitive and then the nForce2 chipset rocked... until then, Intel always had better chipsets.

I've got an Athlon 64 rig right now myself and IMO, the platform is junk. I look forward to nForce4 because nothing available right now is very good (IMO). Sure, the processor is fast and I've got 64-bit architecture ready to go as soon as Microsoft sees fit to release their 64-bit OS.


Also, when you compare Dell to a home built AMD machine, you need to think about support. Don't get me wrong, I have no delusions regarding Dell's support, or ANY OEM's support for that matter... but I'd probably rather be stuck with Dell than Gateway, HP, eMachines, or whoever.

My advice to people is:

If you can build and support your own machine - do it. If you can't, suck it up and buy a Dell.

You might find a cheaper machine than a Dell, but people WISH they had a Dell when they start having problems with their machine and they have to wait in line at Best Buy for an hour so they can come back and pick up their machine 2 weeks later.

I like AMD and the best value I think I ever got from a PC was an nForce2 and OC'd Mobile XP sproc AMD machines have a lot of things going for them... but you can't discount all the advantages you get with Intel and a decent OEM like Dell. There are other aspects like customer support, chipset reliability that are factors.

No, I wouldn't buy a Dell for myself, but I made sure my Dad (who lives 800 miles from me) bought one.
August 23, 2004 4:56:50 PM

yeah i agree with you there, the business ive worked for insisted on soemhting like dell, not becuase they knew anyhting about intel vs amd, but becuase the related dell to being reliable and cost effective. but that is nto true, ive had to repair and service many dell pcs 1 and 2 years down the road. amd's problem is that intel painted na image that is ingrained into this generation of IT ppl and those that run these businesses.

marketing amd more owuldnt solve the problem, what it will take is the next generation, the pl that are now learning about things and hopefully getting the true info about both companies and are more open to another option.
August 23, 2004 5:51:45 PM

AMD has another problem besides Intel's massive PR campaigns... distribution.

When companies like Dell decide who their distributors are going to be, I can guarantee that they aren't basing their decision on the FPS in Doom. Enthusiest certainly care, but the general public does not.

Dell keeps an amazingly small amount of parts in inventory and they have strict requirements of their partners. It's one of the reasons Dell has been so successful and profitable, while companies like the former Compaq have suffered with huge amounts of rapidly depreciating inventory.

I'm siding with you guys... an AMD machine would/could certainly be a better value than whatevere Dell was pushing... BUT, there's more to buying a PC than the speed of the CPU (I think support is a big factor), and there is also more to manufacturing and successfully selling a CPU than your architecture.

Don't be blinded by Sandra benchmarks and FPS in Doom3. AMD has a ways to go before it can compete with Intel in many aspects.
August 23, 2004 8:58:14 PM

well you see thats wher ei think your wrong. you seem to point the finger at amd, whne many of these things we are talking about are out of thier control. For one hting, dont downplay the fact that its more then 'Sandra benchmarks and FPS in Doom3' there are more features besides performance imporvements over the p4 that could be great reasons to buy them.

amd is doing everyhting it can, short of bankrupting itself, to gain that distribution you spoke of. you can admit they have made more progress now then they ever had. it hasnt shown big numbers yet, but as we all know, positive results often take a long time in this industry. they are also working hard to increase thier production capacity wiht the new fab, they cant just build up fabs and catch up to intel. but i also know that they have enough room wiht the fab they have that they could provide more cpus then they do now, and of course the new fab will help that.

i just odnt see this as intel winning a competition with amd, the fact is intel got there first and staked its claim early. amd came in later with real competative products that now position it as a real power in the industry. this takes time to sink in for companies that might pick it up, so the fact amd has made moves now is a sign of a good future. they have to start a solid rep some time, they cant have everything at once. i know most consider market share to be the way of saying how intel or amd are competeing, but seriously, both coampnies are making money, amd for the first time in a while has had consecutive profitable quarters. thats a good sign for the future. i always think of things more as future investments in this field, and intel and amd both work that way. in that respect i think amd is competing on intel's level, if they lay the right groundwork, the market share and dsitributors will follow. amd has to slowly but surely slip into areas and get a foothold.
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