Another EM startup problem

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I have a Williams Space Mission that has a reset problem. When I hit
the start button, the score reels start resetting, but never stop. It
appears that the reset relay is getting stuck engaged. I wanted to
play, so I did somewhat of a half assed fix, by placing a normally
closed switch on the relay's hot wire. I want to truely fix it. Any
suggestions?

-Joe
 

BillB

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have you checked the reset complete switches on the reels?

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billb
<Starbase89@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1125544464.689942.224240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> I have a Williams Space Mission that has a reset problem. When I hit
> the start button, the score reels start resetting, but never stop. It
> appears that the reset relay is getting stuck engaged. I wanted to
> play, so I did somewhat of a half assed fix, by placing a normally
> closed switch on the relay's hot wire. I want to truely fix it. Any
> suggestions?
>
> -Joe
>
 
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yep thats first, check the 0 contacts on each reel, and let me get this
straight, all the reels keep turning or just one player??

Ctsteps5

owner of
71 Bally Expressway, 72 Williams Superstar,
74 Williams Star Pool, 75 Gottlieb Fast Draw.
68 Williams Student Prince

Moderator of EM Pinball Group
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/empinbalmachines/
 
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those are the contacts that either open or close when the score reel
reaches zero, each score reel will have one

Ctsteps5

owner of
71 Bally Expressway, 72 Williams Superstar,
74 Williams Star Pool, 75 Gottlieb Fast Draw.
68 Williams Student Prince

Moderator of EM Pinball Group
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/empinbalmachines/
 
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if memory suits me here, cycle the reel by hand using the coil, watch
it carefully it will move when it hits 9 then back at zero, watch the
actuator arm carefuly, when the arm moves at zero that the switch, i
think it opens done quote me on it. if you need me to go check i will,
but watch the arm carfully

Ctsteps5

owner of
71 Bally Expressway, 72 Williams Superstar,
74 Williams Star Pool, 75 Gottlieb Fast Draw.
68 Williams Student Prince

Moderator of EM Pinball Group
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/empinbalmachines/
 

otto

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What are the 0 contacts?


Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"ctsteps5" <ctsteps5@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125576288.610840.206140@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> yep thats first, check the 0 contacts on each reel, and let me get this
> straight, all the reels keep turning or just one player??
 

otto

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On my 72 Williams Fun fest there is a score reel with several stacks of
multiple switches.

Does each stack have a 0 contact?

How does one determine which switch it is?



Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding

"ctsteps5" <ctsteps5@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125580897.070458.102090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> those are the contacts that either open or close when the score reel
> reaches zero, each score reel will have one
 
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I was just playing around with the machine. On the first player 1000's
reel, when it is turned to the nine, a small switch closes. When it
gets to zero, the switch re-opens. Is this a problem?
 

BillB

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iirc, one opens one closes at zero. it's probably right. drag out the
schematic and see for yourself. the tags telling you which switch is which
probably fell of when you were getting toilet trained but you can still use
the wire colors as a ref.

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billb
<Starbase89@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1125604065.719258.263160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I was just playing around with the machine. On the first player 1000's
> reel, when it is turned to the nine, a small switch closes. When it
> gets to zero, the switch re-opens. Is this a problem?
>
 

BillB

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from 9 to 0 a switch will close and when they all close a curcuit will
complete and the reset cycle will advance to the next thing to do. iirc.
then there's also the runout switch. i haven't fixed one of those in while.

good luck. you'll figure it out.

--
billb
"Joe" <Starbase89@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:7hFRe.23$ON3.2603@news.uswest.net...
> So I have to watch the switch stack as I'm turning the reel, as it's
> passing between 9 & 0. What am I watching for?
>
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<Starbase89@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1125604065.719258.263160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I was just playing around with the machine. On the first player 1000's
> reel, when it is turned to the nine, a small switch closes. When it
> gets to zero, the switch re-opens. Is this a problem?

No.. thats the way things are supposed to happen.... it closes on the
nine so that when that unit goes to the next number (ie zero) it also makes
the unit to the left also move up one more number (ie from 9 to 10, or 99 to
100 etc..) thats called the ninth position switch.... it opens at zero and
starts all over again....
What problem are you having with the game?

Fwed
 
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see now you confused us again, do the reels ever stop turning, and just
the score motor keeps running. or do the reels continue past zero.
 
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> it dosen't stop trying to reset even when all the reels are at zero. The
> only way I can play is if I manually disengage the reset relay

Ok.... if the score reels all stop at zero when you start up the
machine, then your problem is not with the score reels.... if you get one
reel that keeps turning and trying to reset, but does not stop at zero, then
you will need to look at that reel. In the back there are a bunch of
contacts that you will see and get confused at.....but...one of them will
allow the reel to stop at zero... this wil be the ninth position switch....
it appears that whats happening is it may look like it makes good contact,
but in actuality is not. you will need to clean and adjust them and would
be a great idea if you did all of them and not just a couple of them.... I
would recommend doing this to all contact points in the game, which there
are many, but first fix the problem you are having, then move onto bigger
and better things once you feel comfortable with folling around with the
contacts... I would also recommend a schematic as that is a roadmap to how
the game works, or in this case doesn't work. Even if you can't read a
schematic, you will eventually learn... its not that hard...if you can read
a road map, then you will be able to read a schematic...now...
If the score reels stop at zero, but the motor keeps turning, this means
its waiting for something else to reset.....if it appears that everything
is reset and ready to go.... and if you are the guy that says it spits out a
ball but cant play until you drain it and it comes out again, then you will
need to look at your ball count unit to make sure all those contacts are
once again clean and adjusted properly.... clean contacts and properly
adjusted switches will allow your game to play at its best.... take the
flippers for instance, if they are weak.... and even if you rebuild them,
you aren't going to get the most out of your rebuild if your flipper
contacts aren't clean or adjusted properly....so keep this in mind...
If you need to operate the unit manually at first to see how it operates
mechanically, then this might be a good way to see just how things work and
maybe give you a clue as to what their purpose might be....sure they are
just a bunch of switches, but thats what makes your game work... if
something isnt making contact, something else isnt gonna be working very
well....anyway....
See if you can find what isnt working or what the game is waiting for
before its ready to play.....its probably only a minor adjustment thats
just driving you crazy....

Let us know...

fwed
 

BillB

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find the coil (on the schematic) that pulls that reset relay and work
backwards to find the open switch.

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billb
"Joe" <Starbase89@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:5VKRe.54$0b1.2250@news.uswest.net...
> it dosen't stop trying to reset even when all the reels are at zero. The
> only way I can play is if I manually disengage the reset relay
>
> --
> Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
> http://www.gamernewsgroups.com
 
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Keep in mind the game will not finish it's reset as long as there is
even one switch or relay energized. Somewhere there is a switch not
going open when it should which in turn is energizing a relay. All
relays except the hold or AC relay should be open when the game is reset
and at rest. The score motor will keep turning until it see's all relays
at rest. Now, there are a few ways to check this. You can let 'er run
while you look and listen for the offending relay. It will buzz,
perhaps, or at least you will see it pull in. Steve Charland taught me a
neat way to see this easily, turn off the lights in the room and you'll
see it spark! Thats the offending relay. However, now you need to find
whatever switch is triggering that relay. The name of the relay will
tell you, ie, the 50 point relay is stuck on so you look for a 50 point
switch thats stuck closed. Open it and the game can finish resetting. In
your case it may well be the zero position switch on a score reel. All
the reels need to have the last switch on the stack open at the zero
position. If one is not opening at zero the game will never finish
resetting. Your will show you what state the switches and relays should
be in at reset or rest.

Joe wrote:
> it dosen't stop trying to reset even when all the reels are at zero. The
> only way I can play is if I manually disengage the reset relay
>
> --
> Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
> http://www.gamernewsgroups.com

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Joe

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The reels do stop at zero. Its just the score motor that keeps running.
Now what I forgot to mention. This machine was jury rigged in some way
by its previous owner. I believe it was done so to enable free play, but
I can't really tell what was done. I do know that coin mechs don't work,
the credit wheel dosen't move, and the anti-slam switch was disabled. I
hate whoever did this, because I cannot make heads or tails of it

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Then if the reels are stopping they are not the problem. Do like I said
and look and listen for an energized relay. All should be open or at
rest, ie, not pulled in except the hold relay.
To eliminate whether its a problem in the head or the playfield you can
unplug either one and see if the problem goes away. However, that just
narrows it down to one of the two. At that point you focus on one area
or the other. The freeplay jumper on the credit wheel shouldn't keep the
game from resetting.

Joe wrote:
> The reels do stop at zero. Its just the score motor that keeps running.
> Now what I forgot to mention. This machine was jury rigged in some way
> by its previous owner. I believe it was done so to enable free play, but
> I can't really tell what was done. I do know that coin mechs don't work,
> the credit wheel dosen't move, and the anti-slam switch was disabled. I
> hate whoever did this, because I cannot make heads or tails of it
>
> --
> Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
> http://www.gamernewsgroups.com

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A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com
 

BillB

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make the wiring match the schematic. it really is simple.

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billb
"Joe" <Starbase89@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:TUPRe.66$x64.1348@news.uswest.net...
> In the words of Mr. Scott, "She's hotwired like a Christmas tree"
>
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In article <362c7$4318293a$42f83973$27757@DIALUPUSA.NET>,
"billb" <sevenoutpinball@yahoo.com> wrote:

> make the wiring match the schematic. it really is simple.

Hoooooooo Hah! That's gotta be right up there w/ the famous Monty
Python sketch on How To Play The Flute.

Hand-tracing wiring, often past several intermediate stops, is
incredibly difficult and tedious in practice.
Not that I'm arguing it needs to match the schematic, just that it ain't
that simple, sad to say.
 

BillB

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> Hand-tracing wiring, often past several intermediate stops, is
> incredibly difficult and tedious in practice.
> Not that I'm arguing it needs to match the schematic, just that it ain't
> that simple, sad to say.


on an SS maybe, but EM's have all the complexity of a doorbell. there is a
learning curve i realize, but even so, .... the last half of the Gottlieb
manual from the 60's is actually a very good read.

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billb
"Carl Witthoft" <carl@witthoft.com> wrote in message
news:carl-63DFB5.15153202092005@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article <362c7$4318293a$42f83973$27757@DIALUPUSA.NET>,
> "billb" <sevenoutpinball@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > make the wiring match the schematic. it really is simple.
>
> Hoooooooo Hah! That's gotta be right up there w/ the famous Monty
> Python sketch on How To Play The Flute.
>