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Nforce4 with PCI-Express and SLI "in a few weeks"

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October 19, 2004 7:32:59 AM

I wont be upgrading for a long time... But this stuff looks so promising.

To me computer upgrades come non stop, but at certain points in time there are "plateau" breakthroughs.

AMD k6 to Athlon XP was one of them. XP to Barton was not. Barton to A64 yes. A64 to skt 939 dual DDR A64, no. But with this new A64 4000+ with its new technologies (identical to the FX series) matched with these new pci express and SLi boards, to me, is one of those breakthough points.

I just found these two Anandtech articles interesting. Maybe you will, I found the Nforce4 article interesting because is it saying Nforce4, with PCI-ex and SLi will be making it to Socket 754 also??

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=224...

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=224...
October 19, 2004 7:59:13 AM

Unless you have a PCIe FX card, or the money for a SLI setup, there's no reason to get a nf4 board because the preformance is nearly the same to the nf3s. There are some other features that could interest some ppl (2 independent SATA controllers, etc) but for the most part it's not a 'preformance' leap like some ppl may have hoped for. Like the Anandtech article says, it's an Evolution, not a Revolution. Great chipset though, those nf series chipsets are kicking some major ass for the A64 chips.

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AMD Athlon 64 3500+ (stock)//1GB Corsair 3200XL//ATI Radeon 9700Pro (360/335)//WD Raptor 74GB/Antec Neopower 480W//Lian Li PC-61 Custom
October 19, 2004 8:00:51 AM

Yup. Another great and/or odd thing is that part about AMD now having 5, yes 5, chips rated at 2.4ghz. This shows how we've reached a maximum in clock speed and the internal technologies are becoming more important.

Kudos to getting the FX-55 up to 2.6ghz though.
Related resources
October 19, 2004 8:04:38 AM

the FX-55 was sort of the 'nail in the coffin' for Intel. This is kind of like AMDs revenge for what Intel did with the Northwoods heh

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AMD Athlon 64 3500+ (stock)//1GB Corsair 3200XL//ATI Radeon 9700Pro (360/335)//WD Raptor 74GB/Antec Neopower 480W//Lian Li PC-61 Custom
October 19, 2004 4:57:57 PM

like many others, ive been waiting a VERY long time for SLI.
I'm buying the first 4000+ I can get my hands on, a NF4 SLI board and two 6800GTs.

I dont upgrade often, and ive sat and watched my system get crushed by Doom3 and every other release.. and had to read all the articles on how fast the A64 is and so on..

i think the time is right for those who have waited to get the bone crushing system that is the A64/SLI.
October 19, 2004 5:03:54 PM

ehh if you are going to splash that much money on a new system, just add 100 more and get fx55 much much better than 4000+.
October 19, 2004 7:22:35 PM

i thought about that. i will prob get the fx55 since the price is so close.

i cant wait till that stuff is released. it IS a whole lot of money, but ive been waiting so long.. since the pally release for a new PC.

an fx55/nf4/sli GTs will be a total Intel/ATI crushing machine for quite some time.

i hate intel and ati. their stuff is total junk right now compared to the almighty AMD/NV combo, no SLI (on either the motherboards or the video cards), no cool n quiet, no 3.0 shaders, the list goes on.

they dont have anything that will touch this class of stuff for a very long time, esp with SLI from here on out from Nvidia.
October 19, 2004 8:32:45 PM

"i hate intel and ati. their stuff is total junk right now compared "

Ive always respected Intel... Just recently however I see they are no longer kings of development.

For Ati, I ve always hated them... Horrible products, horrible driver support, the worst.
October 19, 2004 10:24:33 PM

Quote:
i hate intel and ati. their stuff is total junk right now compared to the almighty AMD/NV combo, no SLI (on either the motherboards or the video cards), no cool n quiet, no 3.0 shaders, the list goes on.


Nothing wrong with Intel... they're not currently the best performers game-wise, but there's nothing wrong with them.

Nothing wrong with ATi either. I have a 9700 Pro that has served me well for the last 2.5 years. I haven't had a driver problem yet. Incidentally... since you're so gung-ho on nV and SLI... it might interest you to know that a single Radeon X800 XT was able to top TWO nV 6800GTs in SLI. Sure, it was overclocked, but it's kinda sad that one GPU beats two supposedly more powerful GPUs, don't you think?

Must be nice to have that kind of cash... wish I could throw away $1000 + just for a couple of vid cards... let alone over $1000 just for the CPU. I bought an entire computer for what you'll be paying for those 3 things alone.

Now, you're free to disagree with me, but I hate it when someone comes along spewing how something is complete junk when nothing could be further from the truth. A little slower in performance? Sure. Junk? Hardly.

(Oh and Alienware's solution allows any combination of vid cards to work together... including one nVidia card and one ATi card... so ATi could do it if they so desired)

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
October 19, 2004 11:36:33 PM

1 - Hate brand names = primitive and biased choice of action.

2 - Buying the best performing and best featured piece of hardware for a reasonable amount of cache = undisputed choice of action.

Does the second choice actually tend towards a company?... I'm afraid not... :eek: 
October 20, 2004 12:50:05 AM

Although ATI is definately my brand of the moment.. i think some of these games with the Nvidia logo's are being optimized for Nvidia. Almost like a conspiracy. So then i have to wait a day or two to be able to run the game faster than it's counterpart.

Somewhat pisses me off, it's almost like some of these companies don't even beta test their games anymore either.. glitchy as all hell and how could their game not run a amd/nf7 with 9800pro setup.. it's definately a very common setup nowadays. (as in the gaming market)

<A HREF="http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=277124623" target="_new">http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=277124623...;/A>
46,510 , movin on up. 48k new goal. Maybe not.. :/ 
October 20, 2004 1:25:07 AM

They are not optimized for nvidia.....nvidia paid them to put the logo...

Click <font color=blue><A HREF="http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/you.html" target="_new">HERE</A></font color=blue> if you real<b>l</b>y are an <font color=red>idiot</font color=red>.
October 20, 2004 4:02:36 AM

"Although ATI is definately my brand of the moment.. i think some of these games with the Nvidia logo's are being optimized for Nvidia. Almost like a conspiracy."

Uhm, no. If youre a game maker and there is one video company insanely better and more efficient than the other, wouldn't it be in your best interests to pair up with them?

Uhm. Yes.

And the people dumb enough to buy the lesser company's products will suffer, maybe teaching them a lesson to wise up next time.
October 20, 2004 7:47:38 AM

Quote:
I just found these two Anandtech articles interesting. Maybe you will, I found the Nforce4 article interesting because is it saying Nforce4, with PCI-ex and SLi will be making it to Socket 754 also??

Yes, nForce 4 will be used for socket 754 too. Mainly for the cheaper Sempron systems.

One feature you forgot to mention is that it should support dual-core processors. Since the memory controller is inside the CPU, there are only minor changes required to the chipset to support dual-core. I'm not 100% sure, but nForce 4 would be one of the first to support it.
October 20, 2004 8:04:10 AM

Quote:
Somewhat pisses me off, it's almost like some of these companies don't even beta test their games anymore either.. glitchy as all hell and how could their game not run a amd/nf7 with 9800pro setup.. it's definately a very common setup nowadays. (as in the gaming market)

NVIDIA has very good relations with most game developers and publishers. Basically, they help each other, and I don't see anything wrong with that. NVIDIA played it very smart when the last generation of graphics cards they had sub-optimal performance. Game developers, and definately their publishers, don't care about a few percent performance loss. The majority of people still had NVIDIA cards, so to have a big market for the games, the most important thing is stability. And a good relation with NVIDIA never hurted performance tuning either.

There's no doubt that ATI had better products with the 9X00 range, but they just didn't have the trust of the game companies yet. This slow momentum, and the fact that one good range of products made ATI think they were king of the hill, eventually allowed NVIDIA to stay in the race and create these great new products. Let's face it, ATI lost in terms of features (shader model 3.0), and in terms of performance (SLI).

I'm looking forward to their next generation, but for now NVIDIA has the lead, and I don't think they'll be sleeping either...
October 21, 2004 1:43:22 AM

Junk is a strong word. But I see absolutely no reason to purchase a ATI video card over a Nvidia, they have more features, they are faster, they traditionally have better driver support in all OSs..

Same goes for Intel right now.. i like them (i use them) but they are simply outmatched besides in multitasking.

Quote:
Oh and Alienware's solution allows any combination of vid cards to work together... including one nVidia card and one ATi card... so ATi could do it if they so desired)


Yeah right. We've heard that one before. Almost as good as we dont "need" 32bit color capable video cards or the other one of many excuses made for multimillion dollar corporations in the past..

ATI cant do it or it'd be out right now. Period. Its a very big deal for EVERY consumer of all income ranges. Double up a 6600 or a 6800.. every one can take advantage of it.

Quote:
since you're so gung-ho on nV and SLI... it might interest you to know that a single Radeon X800 XT was able to top TWO nV 6800GTs in SLI. Sure, it was overclocked, but it's kinda sad that one GPU beats two supposedly more powerful GPUs, don't you think?


Not really. Overclock SLI GTs and see who wins.
That is such a redundant argument that a single video card overclocked beats two in SLI. Yes, next gen single cards will prob beat SLI NV of today.. so?

Point is, WE that choose to use NV can do it very soon. You, on the other hand.. cannot!

Quote:
Must be nice to have that kind of cash... wish I could throw away $1000 + just for a couple of vid cards... let alone over $1000 just for the CPU. I bought an entire computer for what you'll be paying for those 3 things alone.


Yea and so can i.
The point isnt that it can be done, all of us here can do it. The hard part is getting the good stuff, it requires alot of hard work/saving.
Dont fault those of us that choose to bust our asses because you wont do it to get nice things.

Quit wishing, start working.
October 21, 2004 2:18:55 AM

Quote:
Not really. Overclock SLI GTs and see who wins.
That is such a redundant argument that a single video card overclocked beats two in SLI. Yes, next gen single cards will prob beat SLI NV of today.. so?

I think you missed the point. It would seem that a single X800PE holds the top score in 3D mark. There are actually 3 or four of them, ahead of the first nvidia cards. It is sad that the first OCers with SLI and two 6800U cards cant come any closer than 4th or 5th place.
October 21, 2004 3:58:08 AM

Quote:
I think you missed the point. It would seem that a single X800PE holds the top score in 3D mark. There are actually 3 or four of them, ahead of the first nvidia cards. It is sad that the first OCers with SLI and two 6800U cards cant come any closer than 4th or 5th place.


What are you talking about? I dont know of anyone with two 6800Ultra cards, in 3dmark or elsewhere.

At least with NF4 SLI.. I dont care about alienware's implementation (I suspect it has less performance boost than native Nvidia SLI will).

Its not a good point at all.. its entirely possible theres a 6800 Ultra out there somewhere that can be watercooled and defeat any X800... does it mean anything?
If it does i'd like to know what it exactly does mean.

That overclocking chips makes them faster?

Does it mean that the fact that Nvidia will have the hands down fastest stock performing setup available for quite some time until ATI finally gets SLI drivers together no longer means anything?

SLI support from manufacturers is irrelevant?
(or is this only true in your mind because ATI doesnt have it?)


Because your point is that somehow, in some strange way this defeats or deflates the purpose of supporting SLI across nearly the entire Nvidia product line.
But it doesnt at all, its merely a curiousity that means nothing of the sort.

SLI support is still better than no SLI support.. and wait till NF4 is out.. your results (since they mean so much), are going to get pummeled.
October 21, 2004 4:06:00 AM

Would you really?
The prices of the GT are just about the same as Ati wants for one of thier PE cards.
In all the open GL games, Nvidia rules the roost. Bang for buck, and availability may just go to the X800PE, in the upper end catagory. Sure, the 6800U may be King, but how many people do you know who have 1, and at what price?
October 21, 2004 4:09:59 AM

Read what I said. It is fact. None of your bs opinion.
October 21, 2004 4:20:24 AM

No, the problem was that your "#1 3D mark champion fact", doesnt mean what you are attempting to extrapolate it into meaning.

It is a curiousity. It doesnt say anything about NV SLI or the fact ATI doesnt have it at all.. and will take them years and years to get their drivers together to even do it effectively.
In fact, it doesnt say anything about how good ATI products are AT ALL!
Anything can be overclocked. NV SLI isnt even in anyones hands yet.

It doesnt mean anything.. and when NV SLI is in hands of people like me.. its bye-bye to ANY ATI wins across the board.

Dual watercooled 6800 Ultras (and that would be extreme), would destroy anything ATI has. That, is a fact!
October 21, 2004 8:31:55 AM

Okay, try this for a simple question. The Ati X800PE is selling for $499. BFGs 6800GT is retailing for $450. Which one would you buy?
October 21, 2004 4:45:44 PM

Um the x800 PE is $600 (if you can find it). You can get a 6800GT 256mb for $380 on pricegrabber.

Show me more than one dealer with a $499 X800PE IN STOCK.

$220 is a big difference, esp considering the GT did beat the XTPE in a few launch benchmarks (which shouldnt have happened at all).. the OGL ones IIRC. Even tho OGL is NV's land (because ATI cant/wont do the driver work necessary), its sad.

Most everyone would take the $380 GT and if they have a NF4 rig throw another one in someday.

People are grossly underestimating how many people are going to upgrade to the NF4 SLI and a NV video card. Your petty overclocked X800PE results arent going to influence anyone.
October 21, 2004 10:33:09 PM


I see XT's and XT PE's clocked at 520 MHz. Can anyone shed light on this? I heard the XT PE's never really existed and were only handed to reviewers, while the XT's got the XT PE label before they were sold to the public. The ATI site also doesn't have any regular XT's.
October 22, 2004 3:52:15 AM

well i dont think its very fare to crown nvidia king of performance on the behalf of sli. yes, putting two 6800gts or ultras up against a x800xt PE would win out, but really is that like something no one doubted? lol i knew that would be the case. what you guys arent mentioning is price/performance.

now personally, if i had the money, sure i would drop down for two sli cards, thats becuase im an enthusiast lol, but most of the mainstream will not be buying a two card system. So ATI wont loose out by being delayed with some kind of response. SLI will remain at the top of the niche market for sometime, unless ppl start to consider 2 6600's, but i doubt most that want sli will be.

lets also remember shader 3.0 for nvidia and shader 2.0c for ati is a wash, niehter is picked up by a ton of games, and by the time they do, youll likely see shader 3.0 on both offereings. also lets remember all the numbers showing nvidia in leads is mostly from a few games, like doom 3. ati still leads in some games, and will likely lead in hl2 on single card comparisons.

sli could be a big hit, i just dont see the justification for the mass market. the whole upgrade later position is tough to push when youll have newer and better single card solutions that could outweigh upgrading later. thats why this seems more like a high end addition, like dual cpus, and will stay that way for a while. but that doesnt mean i wouldnt want a set lol, but it also doesnt make me upset with ati for not offering an option for it yet.
October 22, 2004 5:32:17 AM

Considering the drought of high end video cards, where can someone buy two SLI 6800Ultras from? Especially many places have them over retail price that is if they have them at all. Still getting one and then buying another later when available and hopefully cheaper is a good option. Since DX9 is here to stay for at least 2 years while DirectNext waits on Longhorn which is sometime in late 2006 if not later. SLI makes alot of sense. It is not like the old days where DirectX was changing every year or so making any hardware obsolete. Even when Longhorn arrives DX9 will still be predominant probably for another 2 years. Look how long games took to actually use DX9, about 2 years. So a SLI computer could last a very long time and be up to date all through it with plenty of power to spare most of the way. In the end it may well indeed be the cheaper route to take.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 10/22/04 01:34 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
October 22, 2004 1:48:29 PM

Here's the real opponent of the factory-overclocked X800 XT PE: <A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19132" target="_new">Gainward's Ultra/2600 450 MHz air cooled flier</A>. Even though it's still clocked lower than ATI's chip, it performs significantly better. Just like the AMD versus Intel story, this means that NVIDIA still has a lot of headroom. I wonder what will happen when the start using 90nm technology...
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