TECH: System 6 six master display driver board

mark

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*long*

I have a strange issue with my displays on my Williams Time Warp. I
have been through a lot with this machine, so here is where I am now:

* I am able to power the game on and the games goes into attract mode
* I can start a game and play an entire game (no lockups/resets)
* All swicths, lamps, and solenoids work
* Sound works
* My score displays have strange and missing numbers
* I had another working system 6 machine (which I have since sold) that
I swapped driver boards with and the displays worked fine -- the only
exception was the leftmost digit on player 1
* In test mode (with the *bad* driver board) I started the display test
(w/o the fuse for the 100 V displays) and let it run for a few hours.
I returned and all the displays were correct
* I turned the machine off, replaced the fuse, and when I turned the
machine on My score displays are missing every other digit -- except #1
which does not display anything and #3 which displays ___8_8
*** Whenever the 5 bank drop targets are reset (solenoid fired) or the
right eject hole is activated, the score displays flash the correct
digits for a split second -- except for #1 which is blank
* All voltages on the power board are correct
* All test points on the CPU board checked OK (including the blanking
signal
* I replaced the 40 pin interconnect on both the CPU and Driver board
* Pin 37 on the interconnect is receiving 5V (blanking)
* I resoldered all of the male headers on the CPU and Driver board
(removed old solder and replaced with new solder)
* I checked ALL of the transitors on the driver board and I replaced 3
transistors that were out of range on the driver board
* I checked solenoid banks 3 and 6 on the driver board again also
checking to make sure the 3 resistors were OK
* I replaced the solenoid PIA chip on the driver board
* I do not have a logic probe, but I have tested the 7180s using my DMM
and they are testing OK
* The brown wire on 4J7 (Display board) is receiving ~100V, the grey is
receiving ~5V

I know I have checked some other things but I cannot remember at the
moment. Is there something I am overlooking?

Thank you!

-- Mark
 

mark

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Fred --

The game starts in attract mode -- I am pretty sure it would go
straight to audit mode if the 5101 was bad. I have an external battery
holder installed with good batteries. I am able to go into audit mode,
change settings (number of balls), and the game will retain the new
setting.

Thank you for the suggestion!

-- Mark
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Do you have good batteries installed?

To me, it sounds like a memory problem, or
a failing/corrupt CMOS RAM.

The PL5101 would be the culprit.

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************


"Mark" <mkschultz@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1125880928.731968.19170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> I know I have checked some other things but I cannot remember at the
> moment. Is there something I am overlooking?
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I understand that. Still, a failing chip can
cause odd behavior in these old games.
Gottlieb System 1 games exhibit similar
traits for example.

From your description, it is very likely this
could be a cause.

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************






"Mark" <mkschultz@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1125935216.077208.28560@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Fred --
>
> The game starts in attract mode -- I am pretty sure it would go
> straight to audit mode if the 5101 was bad. I have an external battery
> holder installed with good batteries. I am able to go into audit mode,
> change settings (number of balls), and the game will retain the new
> setting.
>
> Thank you for the suggestion!
>
> -- Mark
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Most common problems like you're seeing are due to vibration and bad/dirty
connections between MPU board, display driver, driver and slave cables, and
slave cables and slaves. Also common in these old games is corrosion that
can develop between the pins on the display tubes- just as they go into the
glass. If you see dark stains between the pins, then you're seeing
corrosion. This sometimes allows signals/voltages to jump from pin to pin
and mess things up. Only real practical way to solve it is to replace the
display tube.

You've reflowed solder on backs of connector pins on top row on MPU- that's
good. Also check to make sure the wires in those connectors (female/cable
side) are snug in the IDC connectors- use small flat blate screwdriver to
press them in and ensure they're seated well.

Vibration problem while you're playing game affecting digits could be due to
bad connections between MPU and driver board- interruptions in the
address/data buss. Even after cleaning, cleaning, cleaning these, they can
still be bad or develop bad connections (again)- I've had a few games where
these were so stubborn that the only resolution was to replace them with all
new pins- both sides of the connection.

Make sure the card-edge connectors on the master display and all slaves are
clean- clean them with fine grade sandpaper to ensure they're good. Clean
the female card-edge connectors (wiring harness) with a cardboard emery
board/file to clean the pins in them.

If you continue to have problems, you may want to try narrowing down the
offending digits/segments to the appropriate chip(s) on the master board
that control them- look for commonalities- ie: one chip that may be to blame
for 2 problems or multiple problems on different displays- that will help
you figure out which chips may be bad and need replacing. Or if you're
working with the older transistor version of the board, schematics in your
manual should help you pinpoint possible bad transistor(s) in the same
manner.

Ray J.
--
Action Pinball & Amusement, LLC
Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Web: www.actionpinball.com

We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!



"Mark" <mkschultz@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125880928.731968.19170@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> *long*
>
> I have a strange issue with my displays on my Williams Time Warp. I
> have been through a lot with this machine, so here is where I am now:
>
> * I am able to power the game on and the games goes into attract mode
> * I can start a game and play an entire game (no lockups/resets)
> * All swicths, lamps, and solenoids work
> * Sound works
> * My score displays have strange and missing numbers
> * I had another working system 6 machine (which I have since sold) that
> I swapped driver boards with and the displays worked fine -- the only
> exception was the leftmost digit on player 1
> * In test mode (with the *bad* driver board) I started the display test
> (w/o the fuse for the 100 V displays) and let it run for a few hours.
> I returned and all the displays were correct
> * I turned the machine off, replaced the fuse, and when I turned the
> machine on My score displays are missing every other digit -- except #1
> which does not display anything and #3 which displays ___8_8
> *** Whenever the 5 bank drop targets are reset (solenoid fired) or the
> right eject hole is activated, the score displays flash the correct
> digits for a split second -- except for #1 which is blank
> * All voltages on the power board are correct
> * All test points on the CPU board checked OK (including the blanking
> signal
> * I replaced the 40 pin interconnect on both the CPU and Driver board
> * Pin 37 on the interconnect is receiving 5V (blanking)
> * I resoldered all of the male headers on the CPU and Driver board
> (removed old solder and replaced with new solder)
> * I checked ALL of the transitors on the driver board and I replaced 3
> transistors that were out of range on the driver board
> * I checked solenoid banks 3 and 6 on the driver board again also
> checking to make sure the 3 resistors were OK
> * I replaced the solenoid PIA chip on the driver board
> * I do not have a logic probe, but I have tested the 7180s using my DMM
> and they are testing OK
> * The brown wire on 4J7 (Display board) is receiving ~100V, the grey is
> receiving ~5V
>
> I know I have checked some other things but I cannot remember at the
> moment. Is there something I am overlooking?
>
> Thank you!
>
> -- Mark
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I, too, have seen some weird stuff that was attributed to an otherwise
"looks fine" 5101. Try swapping it if nothing else is yielding any results.
Or first try "flushing" memory in the game- see game manual or repair manual
for procedure of "factory reset" or resetting the CMOS memory. Sometimes
stuck "bits" or "garbage" in memory can freak these Wms games out too.

Ray J.
--
Action Pinball & Amusement, LLC
Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Web: www.actionpinball.com

We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!



"Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
news:dfhsbn01t2b@enews2.newsguy.com...
> I understand that. Still, a failing chip can
> cause odd behavior in these old games.
> Gottlieb System 1 games exhibit similar
> traits for example.
>
> From your description, it is very likely this
> could be a cause.
>
> --
> Fred
> TX
> CARGPB#8
> ******************
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Mark" <mkschultz@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125935216.077208.28560@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Fred --
> >
> > The game starts in attract mode -- I am pretty sure it would go
> > straight to audit mode if the 5101 was bad. I have an external battery
> > holder installed with good batteries. I am able to go into audit mode,
> > change settings (number of balls), and the game will retain the new
> > setting.
> >
> > Thank you for the suggestion!
> >
> > -- Mark
> >
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

If only every other digit is displayed the lamp PIA might be bad. I have seen this
a few times. The cpu seems to use an internal register in this one as a counter.
System 7 cpu/software is not affected by this.

On 4 Sep 2005 17:42:08 -0700, Mark wrote:

>>* I turned the machine off, replaced the fuse, and when I turned the
>>machine on My score displays are missing every other digit -- except #1
>>which does not display anything and #3 which displays ___8_8

Regards
Frank-Rainer Grahl
(frgrahl@REMOVE.ME.gmx.net)
 

mark

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Replaced the Lamp PIA and the missing digits are filled in! I could
have swore replacing the solenoid PIA would have done the trick so I
didnt bother with the lamp PIA. The rest of the digits on player 1/2
should be filled in once I replace the controlling UDN6118.

Thank you very much to everyone that helped me out on this!

-- Mark
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Thanks for reporting back!

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************


"Mark" <mkschultz@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1126233889.291568.265480@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Replaced the Lamp PIA and the missing digits are filled in! I could
> have swore replacing the solenoid PIA would have done the trick so I
> didnt bother with the lamp PIA. The rest of the digits on player 1/2
> should be filled in once I replace the controlling UDN6118.
>
> Thank you very much to everyone that helped me out on this!
>
> -- Mark
>
 

mark

Distinguished
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One last follow up -- received my replacement UDN6118 chip (for IC11),
installed a socket, inserted the chip and all the digits for player one
and the first two digits for player two are now illuminated. Thank you
again to everyone for the sanity check.

-- Mark