my machines dim during game play???? why ????

[Elvis]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

ok..help folks... i got a question and hope for an answer!
i own a chicago coins machine.. (casino 1972) and during the "display"
mode..i get a little dimming in the lights when the blinkers go on and
off.... and when the game is played ..i get a dimming affect when the
ball hits stuff... i have had the relay that activates the lights
cleaned..and i am still experiencing the problem~~~ any ideas on what i
should check next................??

now i dont want too hear the old stand by answer.."it is a chicago
coins problem".....because my 64 Williams heat wave will do the same
thing with the blinkers in the b glass... it will dim a little as
well...and i had a gottlieb SURFER..that did the same thing my chicago
coin is doing..

so i need help on this question!!

what things in a game can cause a drain in light with blinkers and game
play....... besides the lock relay or tilt hold relay..??

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Fuse clips get hotter with current draw, reducing current available to
other circuits (clips gets hotter=more resistance, circuit draws more
current, other circuits don't get as much)

Since coils are essentially a short to ground they get the current over
the lights. I'd check and maybe replace some fuse holders. (Can't hurt
anyway as the old ones are probably loose anyway)

 

[Eric]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

It sounds like when some of your coils are energized, it draws enough
current to drop the voltage, thus the dimming effect on the lighting. I
would check solder connections around the transformer. Maybe a wire is
starting to fray? If it isn't too annoying and you can't find any bad
solder joints, you might just leave it.
Eric
"elvis" <colortek@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1125987035.848904.301290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> ok..help folks... i got a question and hope for an answer!
> i own a chicago coins machine.. (casino 1972) and during the "display"
> mode..i get a little dimming in the lights when the blinkers go on and
> off.... and when the game is played ..i get a dimming affect when the
> ball hits stuff... i have had the relay that activates the lights
> cleaned..and i am still experiencing the problem~~~ any ideas on what i
> should check next................??
>
> now i dont want too hear the old stand by answer.."it is a chicago
> coins problem".....because my 64 Williams heat wave will do the same
> thing with the blinkers in the b glass... it will dim a little as
> well...and i had a gottlieb SURFER..that did the same thing my chicago
> coin is doing..
>
> so i need help on this question!!
>
> what things in a game can cause a drain in light with blinkers and game
> play....... besides the lock relay or tilt hold relay..??
>
> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

The Chicago Coin problem was due to an underpowered transformer. I
remember seeing an old Chicago Coin service bulletin talking about this
problem. They issued a larger power transformer (more current output).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

>Fuse clips get hotter with current draw, reducing current available to
>other circuits (clips gets hotter=more resistance, circuit draws more
>current, other circuits don't get as much)

Not exactly right.....
Fuse clips have a resistance (high or low depending on their state) and
may get warm. Warm connections tend to increase resistance depending on
load. The resistance causes a voltage drop across it (the fuse clip).
Power is consumed across the resistance (where the heat comes from).
The current is 100% a function of V=IR, or Ohms law. The voltage drop
across a resistance will lower the voltage across other devices. Sort
of a voltage divider. Since the 6V circuits are seperate from the 24V
circuits inside the transformer most of the problems come from a
transformer that is poorly designed or has too little iron or copper.

>Since coils are essentially a short to ground they get the current over
>the lights. I'd check and maybe replace some fuse holders. (Can't hurt
>anyway as the old ones are probably loose anyway)

Not exactly right. The coils are a "short", or low impeadance until the
field builds up some back EMF which turns the coil into a larger
impeadance. The current draw of the coils is quite high for a few
cycles and then drops off quick, but will tax the transformer that is
converting 120Vac to 24Vac and 6.5Vac for the lamps. There is only so
much iron and copper in the transformer and the trade off is a slight
dim effect when coils fire.

Too much dimming (how much is too much?) could be a bad connection or
some other problem, but slight dimming is tyrpical in just about every
pinball game.

Kirb

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

yeah but I was close this time wasn't I? "close enough for government
work"

You sure the 6v is seperate from the 24v? What if the transformer has
some kind of tap in it where the 6v comes as a tap out of the 24v
section.......? I understand multi tapped transformers are relatively
common in the pin industry.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

>You sure the 6v is seperate from the 24v? What if the transformer has
>some kind of tap in it where the 6v comes as a tap out of the 24v
>section.......? I understand multi tapped transformers are relatively
>common in the pin industry.

They are common iron cores, but not common windings in some cases. It
depends on the brand, but some are tapped and some are isolated. It
really doesn't matter since dimming happens on both kinds.

Kirb

 

[Elvis]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

could i replace a week transfromer in my chicago coins game with a
gottleib transformer.........?? would this work in a williams game..i
might have access too another gottleib trans?????????

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Try wiggling the plugs to/from the backbox. My '63 Merry Widow did the
same thing and it was a loose plug.

Chas