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3.4 ghz P4 or 3400 AMD64

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December 8, 2004 11:01:31 PM

Fry's has the amd64 3400 (boxed) w/mboard for $250. They often offer the 3.4 ghz p4 (unboxed) w/mboard for $270.
I will be using it for 3d modelling and need to be able to rotate, zoom, pan, and edit without frequent skips and stutters when the number of triangles gets large (several thousand). Please, no flame wars, but, which would be better, or, does it matter (I am guessing both would do ok)?
The apps would be autocad, 3ds max, ac3d, anim8or, amapi3d,
and possible maya or lightwave. Also, some homegrown opengl for special situations involving complicated polygon configurations. The cpu FAQ seems to favor the amd64 for cad, but the p4 for graphics. I wonder about the heat situation with the P4, but I haven't used AMD for several years, so, I don't know. I almost bought the amd today, but
they were temporarily out and that gives me time to think and seek opinions here.
Littleberry

More about : ghz 3400 amd64

December 8, 2004 11:27:20 PM

AMD is usually always better for graphic related things but between those 2 I'd go for the Pentium because it has 1MB of L2. That 3400 only has 512K L2. It will make a noticeable improvement in performance. I'm a die hard AMD fan so I hate advocating Intel but just between those 2 you would probably fair better with the 3.4ghz pentium. If you want a very good proc for graphics stuff get yourself an Opteron.

<A HREF="http://www.folken.net/myrig.htm" target="_new">My precious...</A>
December 8, 2004 11:47:02 PM

When they say graphics, they mean photoshop type graphics, and progs that do well with SSE3.
For 3D autocad, the A64 would be miles ahead. The odmc makes up easily for any difference in cache.
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December 8, 2004 11:48:15 PM

I believe you'll have performance problems with the P4 because this particular P4 core is so prone to overheating and clock throttling. Also, most of these "free boards" Fry's packs with a CPU are fairly trashy, so you probably wouldn't even get a platform advantage with the P4.

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December 8, 2004 11:48:17 PM

I believe you'll have performance problems with the P4 because this particular P4 core is so prone to overheating and clock throttling. Also, most of these "free boards" Fry's packs with a CPU are fairly trashy, so you probably wouldn't even get a platform advantage with the P4.

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December 8, 2004 11:49:22 PM

I didn't see the Opteron mentioned in the CPU FAQ - I will search and see what I come up with - I assume it is AMD - right? I wonder what it costs and what mboard you use and such - post any info you with to share. Littleberry
December 9, 2004 1:55:36 PM

Folken, I am very confused now about AMD processors. The FAQ didn't address the opteron, and the offerings on NEWEGG are so numerous I can't think straight. Is the Fry's offer (amd64 3400 w/mboard 754 socket) at $250 not a good deal?
You have two choices for mboard's, the MSI or the ECS - the seem pretty much the same. I do not plan to upgrade, except to make use of the 64 bit if a windows update is offered. What is the deal with the opteron compared to this 3400 currently on sale at Fry's? That sale ends today, so, if you don't mind, could you make a post for me?
Thanks, littleberry
December 9, 2004 3:00:33 PM

Well... The 2.4ghz opeton is the Opteron 150, 250(multithreading 2cpu), 850 (multithreading 8cpu).
It is the high end server chip from amd. The 150 would be fine if you are not going to have dual procs. But, even the 150 comes at a nice $600-$700 price tag all by itself. The ultimate things always come at an ultimate price :( 
Just go for that 3400, that is a good price.

<A HREF="http://www.folken.net/myrig.htm" target="_new">My precious...</A>
December 9, 2004 3:17:10 PM

What are the MB models that Fry's offer with the 3400+?

Have you consider a Socket939 based system, you would pay more, but you would have a system that would last you longer.

And with your CAD setup, you will will have to get a very good 3D card, because it would be a bit of weste to pair a fast CPU with a poor 3D GPU for 3d modeling, or CADing...

-
A7N8X / <font color=green><b>Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green> <- <i>Is this affecting my credibility?</i>
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Radeon 8500 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290 <- <i>It's enough for WoW!</i>
December 9, 2004 3:22:10 PM

$250 for a 2.4 GHz A64 3400+ w/ mobo is a great deal, if the bundled mobo is not total garbage.

And don't worry about L2 cache ammount, Folken is not right about that. Unlike P4, A64 doesn't need big ammount cache to perform well. 1 MB L2 cache gives A64 little performance boost in games, and virtually no performance advantage in other apps.

Opteron wasn't included in the CPU FAQ, because it's not a desktop CPU, it's intended for server and workstation use. They cost more, because AMD did additional testing to certifty them as server CPU. If you don't want a multi-CPU computer, I see no point of getting Opteron.

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December 10, 2004 12:37:43 AM

I floundered and wound up not going out today, so I will miss that sale. The two mboards were and MSI and an ECS, both 754 and both with onboard sound. I suspect the mboards were not very expensive (probably around $50), and I wish I had written down the model numbers (I *thought* I would remember them). Anyway, I have been reading more and I am thinking the A64-FX53 (Newcastle/Sledgehammer?) would probably be the best system for both CAD and 3DS work, but, I see that they cost $815 from NEWEGG. I can't help but wonder what the deal is with this model that makes it cost so much more than other A64's, even the socket 939 ones. My best bet is probably to wait for Fry's to run a similar ad again (pobably in a few weeks). Can anyone explain the high price tag for the socket 939 A64 FX 53? Let's suppose I had an intricate 3ds model of a hand, with many thousands of triangles so that even the fingerprints can be ssen when zooming. If I were using the mouse to zoom, rotate, revolve, and pan the model in full-ortho view, would I notice any difference between that socket 754 A64 +3400 and the socekt 939 A64 FX-53? If not, then it would really be foolish to even think about it. What I am shooting for is smooth and prompt response to my mouse inputs, even when thousands of triangles have to computed on the fly (internally accomplished by OpenGL - lots of 4>4 matrix multiplications and inversions and such). Littleberry
December 10, 2004 2:44:35 AM

Don't buy FX53. The only advantage FX53 and 4000+ has over 3800+ is extra 512k L2 cache, which I told before practically doesn't affect performance. The difference between 3800+ and 2.4 GHz 3400+ is 3800+ has dual channel DDR400 memory controller and 3400+ has single channel DDR400 memory controller. A64 gains little or slightly more than little performance increase from dual channel memory, but the performance difference definately doesn't justify 400+ PR rating and much heavier pricetag. A64 performance mainly depends on clockspeed, at this moment. The only A64 that is really somewhat faster than 3400+ is FX55 (2.6 GHz), which is not a real choice for AMD's pricing policy.

Socket 939 doesn't seem very future-proof at this moment, when there are rumours that AMD is planning another socket for dual core A64s. And 2.4 GHz A64 will take long time to be considered backdated, just like other 2.4 GHz socket 939 CPUs.

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December 10, 2004 3:05:33 AM

The big plus to the FX series chip is that the multiplier is unlocked upward. This really does little or nothing, even for extreme ocers, who prefer higher fsb anyhow.
The socket 754 is not a bad choice, so long as you get an nforce3 250 chipset board. I doubt either of the two boards Frys was bundling were nforce, so waiting probably saved your bacon.
Progress on chips seems a little slow now. If you do opt for a s754 setup, it should keep you going for a while. Unfortunately in your business, there are quite a few progs that will take advantage from the dual cores that will be out in about a year. Not too many scale all that well, so the 64 bit windows upgrade should keep you in the thick of things.
December 10, 2004 7:34:39 AM

Researching on NEWEGG, I come up with the following:

$82 BIOSTAR "K8NHA Grand" NVIDIA nForce3 250GB Chipset

$212 AMD Athlon 64 3400+ (Newcastle) 2.4GHz
(FSB: Integrated int chip
Cache: L1/64K+64K; L2/512K
Voltage: 1.5V
Process: 0.13Micron
Socket: Socket 754)

$162 PDP SYSTEMS DDR Memory
(NonECC/Unbuffered)
184-Pin 1GB PC-3200, Model PSD1G400 - Retail

$456 = TOTAL

The description for the BIOSTAR didn't say about the ram being ECC or buffered, so, if anyone knows if the non-ecc/unbuffered ram (above) will work or not, please respond.
Also, this board had only two reviews (both good), but, does anyone here have anything to say about it? I think this would be a better deal than Fry's cheap mboard bundle,
since it has firewire also (and sata/raid, if I ever need that). This is probably what I will do. I welcome any comments. littleberry
December 10, 2004 9:32:03 AM

You don't need ECC/Buffered RAM if you're going to use a socket 754 or 939 based CPU.

Only socket 940 Athlon64 FX and Opterons require ECC/Buffered memory

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December 11, 2004 1:07:36 AM

I wouldn't buy anything from BilgeStar. Chaintech, MSI, Gigabyte, anything but Die-O'Star.

Abit IS7 - 3.0C @ 3.6ghz - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
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December 11, 2004 1:22:04 AM

dual core CPU would benefit from the greater bandwidth offer by DDR2, so, buying socket 939 now for dual core later is not a smart choice, imho. Better go with a simple and cheaper 754 setup now and upgrade when dual core and optimized software for them will be mainstream.

As you said, a good nforce3 board, either 939 or 754, depending of his budget will do the job for some years to come.

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