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754 vs 939 - 754 Wins

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December 10, 2004 11:58:09 AM

I am building a new game machine for my son, as his 900mhz Thunderbird simply can no longer hold its own.

I have decided on on the 754 platform with a 3000+, and 512mb ram (1 DIMM). I am interested to see if anyone can sway me to go in the 939 direction.

Here are my reasons for 754:

1. It is a bit faster in gaming then the 939 equivilent 3000+.

2. Single channel memory makes upgrading to 1GB RAM less expensive. Just add another 512 DIMM in the future.

3. Dual channel memory access does not increase game performance significantly, and is more costly to upgrade. Why buy 512 now (2 x 256), and have to replace it later with 1gb (512 x 2)? Using 4 DIMMS lowers FSB to 333mhz.

4. No significant difference in heat output.

5. 939 user less power, but both support Cool n' Quiet, which lowers power consumption.

6. No significant difference in chipset performance (800mhz hypertransport vs 1000mhz).

7. No need for extras such as IEEE or RAID.

8. No biggie, but 754 is about $50 less (motherboard and processor) then 939.

9. Saved the best for last. I am sure that everyone will argue that the 754 offers no upgrade path, while the 939 will have a wealth of processors, maybe even dual core. But the truth is that in about 18 months (when I would upgrade the processor), the motherboard (754 or 939) will be so outdated that it will need to be replaced anyway. I have yet to replace a processor without replacing the motherboard as well. So 754 as a dead end for upgrades applies to 939 as well.

So, talking socket only, can anyone convince me to go with 939 over 754?

I forgot - overclocking is not an issue here.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>

More about : 754 939 754 wins

December 10, 2004 2:27:26 PM

Some counters for 939.

1) No argument, the 1.8 core of the 939 3000+ just can't compete with a 2.0 core of the 754.

2) Do the same to the 939 and use single channel today, dual channel when you upgrade RAM. (dual channel doesn't have to be a matched set - just 2 chips of the same size/speed)

3) see #2.

4) 90nm core 939's output a lot less heat.

5) That's right, less power, and even more less (hmmm... need to review my grammer there lol) with C&Q.

6) No argument there.

7) I'm sure boards are coming out without those options, but today I can't argue the point.

8) Huh? I haven't looked real hard, but a quality 939 board can be had for about 115, and 754 doesn't go much below 85 - that's only about $30. Ok, there's still a price difference, but not $50.

9) I do the same, so I agree.

I know it's not an issue... but it oc's better! :evil: 

If I was buying a board _today_ not to OC, I'd buy 754 myself because of the relative lack of performance difference and definite price difference.

Guess I'm a bad convincer. :eek: 

Mike.
December 10, 2004 3:11:51 PM

I went the 754 3000+ route and no regrets so far...perform well and was cheap to built.

You have the same reasonning as I had when updating...It doenst worth to spend more today for future because we dont know what future will bring and if our mobo will still be up to date...better upgrade both CPU and mobo at same time.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
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December 10, 2004 4:36:43 PM

cause the 939 has more pins, and more is ALWAYS better. lol

this is my boomstick!
December 10, 2004 5:07:00 PM

754 wins? really? what about this 939 combo...this any good?

MD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.0GHz, 512KB L2 Cache 939-Pin 64-bit Processor

MSI K8N NEO2 PLATINUM NVIDIA NFORCE3 ULTRA SOCKET 939 FSB1000 AGP8X SATA GBLAN IEEE 1394

Corsair XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series, 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - Retail X 2

ATI RADEON 9800 PRO Video Card, 256MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL

NEC 16X Double Layer DVD±RW Drive, Beige, Model ND-3500A, OEM

im trying to figure out the best possible solution thats not that expensive but has at least a 3 year future of use for gaming / developing / encoding|deconding video|audio / lots of downloading - 24/7.
December 10, 2004 6:23:59 PM

You missed the point completely.

I am not bashing 939. Be comfortable with the system you bought.

I was asking for OPINIONS on why I should use 939 vs 754 based on the reasons I posted. This is strictly a game machine, for a 13 year old. It doesn't need XMS, IEEE, or RAID. It will not be overclocked (well, maybe a little). It will not be upgradable in 12 months, even if it was 939.

Based on the 3000+ (not the 3200+), the 754 version is faster then the 939, even with the dual channel capability of the 939.

So, do you understand the post now? Do you have any opinions of worth, other then telling me what kind of system you have?

<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
December 10, 2004 6:25:12 PM

Then I should consider the 940 socket......

<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
December 10, 2004 6:56:01 PM

damn fool, he wasnt pointing out any mistakes on your part, he just heard from you that the 754 won in games and was rethinking his choices for a new computer. so he posted specs asking if it was a good setup. i dont think it was even aimed directly at you.

this is my boomstick!
December 11, 2004 12:15:02 AM

Both are very good setups. 754 based setups are cheaper and little faster.

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December 11, 2004 12:26:46 AM

The 940 boards are a lot more stable.
I have no love for any of the s939 boards, so I will stay with my s754 for a while. My daughter needs an upgrade as well, so I was hoping to go 939, and give her my "old" K8N-E deluxe board. Sorry kiddo, you'll have to wait.
December 11, 2004 1:12:59 AM

The socket 939's to buy are the Nforce4 boards coming shortly. Aside from that, get what you want. It doesn't matter.

Abit IS7 - 3.0C @ 3.6ghz - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
Samsung 120gb ATA-100 - Maxtor 40gb ATA - 100
Sony DRU-510A - Yellowtail Merlot
December 11, 2004 5:51:57 AM

You said it was a gaming machine...The processor isn't that important for gaming(both 939 and 754 are sufficient for gaming purposes). The important thing is the video card. What video card do you want to put inside?
December 11, 2004 9:30:50 AM

A Socket 939 3000+ will overclock a hell of a lot better than the 754. But if you dont plan on overclocking then you are prolly right, the 754 is the better setup in this case.
December 11, 2004 7:01:51 PM

For now, his gforce Ti 4200 (dx8) will have to do. Eventually I will get him a Radeon 9600XT when I find one at an exceptional price.

I figure the Ti 4200 will be pushed to the max.

<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
December 11, 2004 7:04:58 PM

No overclocking. That will require premium RAM. I will be using Corsair Value Memory (512mb 2.5 cas). The difference in price for XMS compared to performance gain is not worth it (to me).


<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
December 11, 2004 8:59:37 PM

Why is that?
December 11, 2004 10:17:05 PM

Aw horsefeathers! DDR is getting downright cheap. Even the stinkiest stuff overclocks a little. Life without overclocking is like your wife without breasts. Sure the basics are there, but some of the fun is gone! :lol: 


Abit IS7 - 3.0C @ 3.6ghz - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
Samsung 120gb ATA-100 - Maxtor 40gb ATA - 100
Sony DRU-510A - Yellowtail Merlot
December 11, 2004 11:57:47 PM

I would personally go with S939. Therefore it will be an easier upgrade down the road. However, there is no real performance difference between 754 and 939.
December 12, 2004 11:00:40 PM

well, I have yet to see a socket 754 board that has a PCIe or PCIx Video slot. 939 is the upgrading path true. And the PCIe specs are real nice. Since the high end AGP cost in the $485 range and a PCIe card can run you $670 . . . . but the performance is so nice for PCIe.

For gamers . . it IS ALL about the video card. You have to go with PCIe right now.

XP 2800+ (thor B); Asus A7N8X Delux; Maxtor 40/120 gig ATA 133; AIW9700 RadeonPro; Corsair PC3200 (2X256); LiteOn CDRW; TDK 420N DVD+RW; Antec Case; Antec SL350; many many fans; WinXp
December 12, 2004 11:40:30 PM

By the time I'll seriously need( not only for show off or benchmark) of something like a fx-55 CPU, I would certainly need another motherboard with better specs and feature. There is no easyer upgrade path. Only expensive upgrade path. Remember, may just 3 month ago when all were saying: "don't go with 754, go with 939, more futureproff"...well, their future will stop at AGP as only new board have PCIe...There is nothing futureproff in computer...never, never buy assuming that in 2 years, all you have to do to upgrade will be putting another CPU.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
December 13, 2004 1:38:53 AM

maybe I misunderstood, but are you saying there will be PCIe for socket 754 now?

XP 2800+ (thor B); Asus A7N8X Delux; Maxtor 40/120 gig ATA 133; AIW9700 RadeonPro; Corsair PC3200 (2X256); LiteOn CDRW; TDK 420N DVD+RW; Antec Case; Antec SL350; many many fans; WinXp
December 13, 2004 1:58:43 AM

that's not what I meant. I meant that if you absolutely need PCIe now, then go out and pay premium to buy it. But now, even a simple socket 754 A3000+ with a good AGP x800 or gf6800 is sufficient for game, even if they do not show up the best benchmark. As for PCIe with socket 754, I guess that soon, we will see it. but for now, as like new technology, it appear on high end system for company to make more profit.

I dont like to spend money for benchmark, I rather loose some FPS and have a life outside. But that's me... and others are differents...

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
December 13, 2004 2:29:03 AM

<font color=blue>There is no easyer upgrade path. Only expensive upgrade path. </font color=blue>

Exactly. When DDR is replaced by DDR2, will any current 939 board and processor be able to take advantage of it? Don't think so.

By the time you are ready to upgrade your processor, you will need a new motherboard (and RAM) to take advantage of it.

By the time I am ready to replace the 754 3000+, I will have to replace the motherboard as well. Why worry about an upgrade path that I will never follow? Perhaps by then Intel will have their act together and I will buy the next generation Pentium.

Thanks for all of the input guys. Looks like I will go with an Abit KV8 Pro, and the 754 3000+. At this time don't try to change my mind. It's ordered.



<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
December 13, 2004 4:06:10 AM

Your posts made me think...I never upgrade just the processor...my time frames for upgrades have always been cpu/mb/mem. From the reasons you stated, the 754 path would be just fine. I'm going to give the nForce4 SLI boards 3 more days before I break down and go a different route.

<font color=green><b><i>Lizards</font color=green></b> do <b>not</b> taste like <b><font color=yellow>chicken</font color=yellow></b>,<b> <font color=yellow>chicken</font color=yellow></b> tastes like <font color=green><b>lizard.</b></font color=green></i>
December 13, 2004 11:44:46 AM

the speed increase with PCIe and SLI in today's game does not worth it now. Leave the new technology to mature, give the other board maker some time to show of their PCIe solution,...

The money saved from by staying away from PCIe/SLI for now, in this christmas time could be better used for gifts for family or to help other by giving to funds rising society.



-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
December 13, 2004 12:13:50 PM

<font color=blue>"nForce3 250 based mobos are better"</font color=blue>

Speedwise, they are the same as the K8T800 Pro. Feature wise, it boils down to price. Most low end nForce3 boards are of the less desirable non gb type. However, I had decided on the Epox 8KDA3J 250gb board. But, on the day that I placed the order, the Abit KV8 Pro had dropped $20 and was just about the same price as the Epox. I have always used Abit boards, and (in my opinion only) the Abit with its "uguru" is the better of the two. No Abit vs Epox flame wars please, this is my preference only.

In the end, it came down to price. I was looking to build a low cost, but reasonably well performing game machine.

<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
December 13, 2004 12:55:36 PM

well, it just seems like yesterday my 3400 clawhammer was the shizznit! And it seems like just a little before thhat time I could remember some coming in here talking about how the 64 bit clawhammer was gonna revolutionize everything.

well, I got the clawhammer. and it seems that no sooner than I got it did I see AMD decide that the 939 was the path of the future. none-the-less I am quite happy with my system, and if there is a bottleneck, then it is the videocard. I think my path to upgrading will be this: upgrade my memory from 512 mg to 1.5 gig THEN when 754 mobos come out with PCIe, I should be able to transfer my memory and cpu and other goodies over to the new mobo. As for DDR2/DDR3 . . . . I mean, is this stuff really better?? Fast memory is nice but bottle necks occur at the CPU and/or video card. There are a lot of 754's out there and folks who shelled out over $400 to get one when they first came out. I tell you that I am not so willing to part with it any time soon, but with the advent of Doom3 . . . well, that changed things a little huh? See my profile, what I have. Doom3 cannot run at maximum settings. Hell, even Battlefield Vietnam doesn't run at max settings. Thank god for LCD's though. That may be the most beautiful piece of my system.

K8T Neo FIS2R
Athlon 64 bit 3400
2 X 256 Corsaire
Maxtor 40, 120
Western Digital Raptor 74 Gig
ATI AIW Radeon 9700 Pro
NEC LCD Monitor 1760NX
Antec Tru Power 550
Windows XP
December 13, 2004 5:45:47 PM

That the video card that limit performance, not your CPU. Put a new video card and it will be way faster in game. And put more memory too, it will help.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
December 13, 2004 5:47:59 PM

Who am I, Ghandi? My hard-earned $$$ is well spent on...me! Presents for loved ones are already bought, wrapped, shipped, buried, broken, and spat on. As for funding charities; bleeding heart liberals need a neck tuniquet. I fund 3 separate Combined Federal Campaign charities and support local charities - I don't need a hack telling me to shave my pc budget to help those who don't help themselves.

-By the way, Happy Holidays.

<font color=green><b><i>Lizards</font color=green></b> do <b>not</b> taste like <b><font color=yellow>chicken</font color=yellow></b>,<b> <font color=yellow>chicken</font color=yellow></b> tastes like <font color=green><b>lizard.</b></font color=green></i>
December 13, 2004 8:46:11 PM

I wasnt directly pointing that at you, but what I mean is, for christmas, company will offer new technology at higher price. after christmas, prices will go down.

If you have the money, then good! but you may have a lot more with your money after christmas than now. That's marketing.

best wishes for you too!

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
December 14, 2004 5:14:03 AM

Agreed, the Christmas holiday season is a time for bloated profit margins and outright thievery on the part of the majority of merchants. Free enterprise is one thing, sticking it to the customers during the 'feel good' holiday is another.

Am holding off on pending orders except for my ram (already bought and in use), case, h2o cooler, and new lcd monitor. The core parts will wait until first or second week of January - tons of open box returns should be quite interesting.

Happy Holidays to All

<font color=green><b><i>Lizards</font color=green></b> do <b>not</b> taste like <b><font color=yellow>chicken</font color=yellow></b>,<b> <font color=yellow>chicken</font color=yellow></b> tastes like <font color=green><b>lizard.</b></font color=green></i>
!