Tech: Rollover Buttons not Registering

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Game: Eight Ball Champ

Both rollover buttons in the loop lanes that take ball to top are not
registering. They are in the same column in the switch matix, but switches
above and below them in the column work so it doesn't seem to be a daisy
chain problem. These two switches are the only thing not working on the
game.

Checked for loose wires, checked to make sure wires were secure in connector
to board and connector was in place. Seems unlikely that two switches would
both go bad at the same time. Also, reviewed marvins.com site and tried
some of their recommendations (e.g., cutting one prong of the unnecessary
cap from the switch), but these two still don't work. The third rollover in
the center of the playfield does work, though.

Any help you can offer would be appreciated.

Thanks.

- Brian

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

"Brian B" wrote:
> Game: Eight Ball Champ
>
> Both rollover buttons in the loop lanes that take ball to top are not
> registering. They are in the same column in the switch matix, but
switches
> above and below them in the column work so it doesn't seem to be a daisy
> chain problem. These two switches are the only thing not working on the
> game.

Switches aren't always wired (daisy-chained) one right above the other on
the playfield, so just looking/guessing isn't good enough sometimes- a
switch may have a wire that leaves and goes way across the playfield, then
comes back to the switch right next to it- you never know- wiring was screwy
in these mid-80's Bally games- that's for sure. So check to be sure.

Also, if the switch has a small disc capacitor across it's leads, clip one
leg of it to remove it from circuit, and see if the switch starts working
again. If so, then the disc cap is shorted. These were used throughout all
games Bally and Stern from late 70's through late 80's and are a very common
failure part.

These were used to help the game detect a brief/fast switch closure from a
fast moving ball- to be sure you got points/award for actually hitting that
switch. The cap extends the signal duration that is sent to the MPU board.
These are also used on pop bumper switches to make the bumpers more
sensitive and energetic.

We have new replacement caps available- see our website at:
www.actionpinball.com

> Checked for loose wires, checked to make sure wires were secure in
connector
> to board and connector was in place. Seems unlikely that two switches
would
> both go bad at the same time. Also, reviewed marvins.com site and tried
> some of their recommendations (e.g., cutting one prong of the unnecessary
> cap from the switch), but these two still don't work. The third rollover
in
> the center of the playfield does work, though.

Another thought- sometimes 2 or 3 switches wired in parallel (2 or 3 with
same switch ID) may have a cap on just one of the switches and not the
other- I've seen this in a few Bally games. May be worth looking for.

Ray J.
--
Action Pinball & Amusement, LLC
Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Web: www.actionpinball.com

We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Ray,

Thanks for your help. I already tried cutting one link of the caps on both
switches and I've traced the wires all the way to the backbox connectors,
but don't see a problem with the wires. Could it be possible that one of
the switches itself is out of alignment or bad? Could the one switch being
bad cause the other one to not work as well if it is next in the chain.
Just wanted your opinion on this before I tried to muck around with
replacing or adjusting the switches themselves. Is a problem with the board
possible (this seems unlikely to me due to wires also being used by other
switches that work).

- Brian

"Ray Johnson - Action Pinball" <staff@actionpinball.com> wrote in message
news:MtadnTw-7-Sw2ILeRVn-rQ@aros.net...
> "Brian B" wrote:
>> Game: Eight Ball Champ
>>
>> Both rollover buttons in the loop lanes that take ball to top are not
>> registering. They are in the same column in the switch matix, but
> switches
>> above and below them in the column work so it doesn't seem to be a daisy
>> chain problem. These two switches are the only thing not working on the
>> game.
>
> Switches aren't always wired (daisy-chained) one right above the other on
> the playfield, so just looking/guessing isn't good enough sometimes- a
> switch may have a wire that leaves and goes way across the playfield, then
> comes back to the switch right next to it- you never know- wiring was
> screwy
> in these mid-80's Bally games- that's for sure. So check to be sure.
>
> Also, if the switch has a small disc capacitor across it's leads, clip one
> leg of it to remove it from circuit, and see if the switch starts working
> again. If so, then the disc cap is shorted. These were used throughout
> all
> games Bally and Stern from late 70's through late 80's and are a very
> common
> failure part.
>
> These were used to help the game detect a brief/fast switch closure from a
> fast moving ball- to be sure you got points/award for actually hitting
> that
> switch. The cap extends the signal duration that is sent to the MPU
> board.
> These are also used on pop bumper switches to make the bumpers more
> sensitive and energetic.
>
> We have new replacement caps available- see our website at:
> www.actionpinball.com
>
>> Checked for loose wires, checked to make sure wires were secure in
> connector
>> to board and connector was in place. Seems unlikely that two switches
> would
>> both go bad at the same time. Also, reviewed marvins.com site and tried
>> some of their recommendations (e.g., cutting one prong of the unnecessary
>> cap from the switch), but these two still don't work. The third rollover
> in
>> the center of the playfield does work, though.
>
> Another thought- sometimes 2 or 3 switches wired in parallel (2 or 3 with
> same switch ID) may have a cap on just one of the switches and not the
> other- I've seen this in a few Bally games. May be worth looking for.
>
> Ray J.
> --
> Action Pinball & Amusement, LLC
> Salt Lake City, Utah USA
> Web: www.actionpinball.com
>
> We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Ahhh! Finally, I'm not the only one that has this almost SAME problem!
Same deal, all game switches work, but the two upper outside lane
rollovers do not always work.

First, are you sure that the switches are completely non-working? Mine
will work if I manually activate them with my fingers and hold the
switch closed, but often when I am playing they *almost* never
register. I say almost because I'll go for weeks or months with them
barely ever registering, then one day they will consistently always
register and keep working for weeks.

Now, I'm not the worlds definitively greatest tech, but I more than
know my way around a playfield switch matrix and have lots of Bally
experience. The switches have been cleaned and adjusted and I usually
replace all playfield caps on Ballys, so I have new ones up on those
rollovers. For the life of me, I couldn't get those damn buttons to
consistently register. I tried gapping the switches to within a frog's
hair, but then I'd get closures when the pops would fire.

I am somewhat convinced that one problem on this game is the
positioning of the rollover buttons. On both sides, they put them
right at the apex of the bend in the upper lanes and too close to the
outside wall. I think that due to the playfield geometry, often the
ball will hit the side wall on the way up and actually bounces across
or "short-cuts" the curve instead of riding the wall and the ball never
really hits enough of the button to get the switch to register. It
drives me nuts when it stops working as you can really rack up some
points up there, especially when you get the playfield up to triple
value scoring.

Did I mention that Eight Ball Champ is a GREAT game?!

When the stars are in alignment, I can actually rollover the score,
which I think is VERY hard to do on this baby. I think my HS is about
13,000,000!



Brian B wrote:
> Game: Eight Ball Champ
>
> Both rollover buttons in the loop lanes that take ball to top are not
> registering. They are in the same column in the switch matix, but switches
> above and below them in the column work so it doesn't seem to be a daisy
> chain problem. These two switches are the only thing not working on the
> game.
>
> Checked for loose wires, checked to make sure wires were secure in connector
> to board and connector was in place. Seems unlikely that two switches would
> both go bad at the same time. Also, reviewed marvins.com site and tried
> some of their recommendations (e.g., cutting one prong of the unnecessary
> cap from the switch), but these two still don't work. The third rollover in
> the center of the playfield does work, though.
>
> Any help you can offer would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> - Brian

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

These are your standard leaf switches. My gold points are brand new!


Lloyd Olson wrote:
> These switches, are they the micro mini switches ? or a set of points ? If
> points - the rivet on the blade is probably loose or corroded, reset it, or
> solder it on and see if it becomes more reliable. LTG
>
> <rondondo@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1126180485.443907.105240@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > First, are you sure that the switches are completely non-working? Mine
> > will work if I manually activate them with my fingers and hold the
> > switch closed, but often when I am playing they *almost* never
> > register. I say almost because I'll go for weeks or months with them
> > barely ever registering, then one day they will consistently always
> > register and keep working for weeks.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

The old points on the switches didn't work any better. I thought you
should *never* file gold flash contacts!?


Lloyd Olson wrote:
> Brand new doesn't mean they are good. The gold might not be plated right and
> having trouble conducting electricity, and also might not be clean. Try an
> old set of points, filed them clean, and see if performance improves. Then
> you'll know for sure. LTG
>
> <rondondo@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1126201112.940223.7460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > These are your standard leaf switches. My gold points are brand new!
> >
> >
> > Lloyd Olson wrote:
> > > These switches, are they the micro mini switches ? or a set of points ?
> If
> > > points - the rivet on the blade is probably loose or corroded, reset it,
> or
> > > solder it on and see if it becomes more reliable. LTG

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

These switches, are they the micro mini switches ? or a set of points ? If
points - the rivet on the blade is probably loose or corroded, reset it, or
solder it on and see if it becomes more reliable. LTG

<rondondo@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1126180485.443907.105240@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> First, are you sure that the switches are completely non-working? Mine
> will work if I manually activate them with my fingers and hold the
> switch closed, but often when I am playing they *almost* never
> register. I say almost because I'll go for weeks or months with them
> barely ever registering, then one day they will consistently always
> register and keep working for weeks.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Brand new doesn't mean they are good. The gold might not be plated right and
having trouble conducting electricity, and also might not be clean. Try an
old set of points, filed them clean, and see if performance improves. Then
you'll know for sure. LTG

<rondondo@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1126201112.940223.7460@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> These are your standard leaf switches. My gold points are brand new!
>
>
> Lloyd Olson wrote:
> > These switches, are they the micro mini switches ? or a set of points ?
If
> > points - the rivet on the blade is probably loose or corroded, reset it,
or
> > solder it on and see if it becomes more reliable. LTG

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Never file gold ones, just to test what is going on in your situation, I
would file an old set and try them, then you'd know for sure if your new
points are good or not. I wouldn't leave the old filed points in there
forever after. LTG

<rondondo@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1126202195.006171.167250@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> The old points on the switches didn't work any better. I thought you
> should *never* file gold flash contacts!?