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The obviously useless THG Stress Test!

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December 17, 2004 3:40:38 PM

Read this first:
<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041217/index.html" target="_new">http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041217/index.html&lt;/A>

What is a stress test with a system that is not running in a normal PC Case?

Who buy a PC without putting it in a case?

If THG really want to do a real stress test, they should put all the components in a normal PC case. Not an overclocker's case. A normal case. A system should be STABLE and RELIABLE in a normal PC case.

And why not running PRIME95 or SETI in conjunction with 3DMark05, just to make sure the CPU is ALWAYS at 100% load.

They should also add a CPU frequency probe to make sure the P4 or the AMD64 is not throttling down to avoid overheat.

Scuze me, but this test will mean nothing for 99% of the people! No one is running a PC in those condition. <b>PERIOD!</b>

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A7N8X / <font color=green><b>Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green> <- <i>Is this affecting my credibility?</i>
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Radeon 8500 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290 <- <i>It's enough for WoW!</i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheRod on 12/17/04 01:07 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
December 17, 2004 4:49:46 PM

I agree with you that stress testing should be done in a case. The interaction of airflow between components is highly important to how well they would survive a stress test.

However I disagree that all components, no matter how extreme, should be able to work together in a 'normal' case. Anyone buying components that high end should also have high end cooling in their case. It would be silly to stick a 3.8GHz Prescott, 2GB DDR400, a GeForce 6800 Ultra, and three 15K RPM SCSI drives in a RAID 5 array into your typical ATX case. (Or worse, your 'normal' microATX case.)

Quote:
And why not running PRIME95 or SETI in conjunction with 3DMark05, just to make sure the CPU is ALWAYS at 100% load.

Actually, doing that might <i>help</i> the CPU. Depending on how well the threads fit together, the CPU going back and forth between those threads might not be nearly as pressed internally. Or it might not help, and as you say be a better test. I really don't know which way it would go, but it could go either way.

Quote:
They should also add a CPU frequency probe to make sure the P4 or the AMD64 is not throttling down to avoid overheat.

That is a very good point.

<pre><b><font color=red>"Build a man a fire and he's warm for the rest of the evening.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life." - Steve Taylor</font color=red></b></pre><p>
December 17, 2004 11:15:04 PM

The idea of running 3D, was I think, so we as viewers could watch and verify.
Personaly I am rather supprised by the heat of the Amd system. I am sure (by using an infrared temp sensor) that my 130 nano 3200+ never gets above 55c.
It's too bad the amd psu cant put out the 3.3 volts, on that rail. At 3.1 it is getting close to what I consider a failure.
Related resources
December 17, 2004 11:51:12 PM

Will I ne able to see some kinda FIRE ! :cool:

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
December 18, 2004 11:11:50 PM

what i start to see at their stress test is that actually the pressie runs a bit cooler then the AMD processor???

Not that it makes much (only 1 degree of difference) but what "cooling spell" have they used??

i agree that they should have been in a case, as in a case the temps can get 5-10 degrees higher then displayed openly

one thing that is then an advantage is that all the temp readings are now objective, thus not depending on a case ventilation, nor other aspects...

and there indeed the amazing outcome turned to be the processor temp...

i honestly thought that the pressie would run at 70 degrees and definitely run hotter then the AMD...

that was for me the most amazing part of the stress test, so after all maybe not that useless... :lol: 

at the end i completely agree that they should have mounted all of it in xcases so that it would be more objective for a user to see the difference.

as only real geeks run their comp like that :) 

it's az bit like me though :lol: 

<font color=purple><i> Enosi and I.... </i></font color=purple>
December 19, 2004 7:51:34 AM

Quote:
what i start to see at their stress test is that actually the pressie runs a bit cooler then the AMD processor???

Anyone who believes a 115 watt prescott runs cooler than a 50 watt A64, is an idiot. Those clowns are screwing up big time. Are they doing it on purpose? Probably, noone could be that stupid without really trying. They should have found out what is wrong, before they started transmitting.
December 19, 2004 11:35:56 AM

EDIT: oops sorry for the confusion i ment the whole test is wrong.

Thats so overly wrong....

Signature (up to 200 characters). You may use <font color=blue><b>Markup</b></font color=blue> in your signature<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by coylter on 12/20/04 01:53 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
December 20, 2004 4:54:27 AM

Since i edited my post you now do agree with my post :p  :D 

Signature (up to 200 characters). You may use <font color=blue><b>Markup</b></font color=blue> in your signature
December 20, 2004 8:54:39 AM

I just the check back, their "live" stress test, and the sensor graphices seems to not work well. There is no reading...

Ha well... The more I check this test, the more it's useless... It's a waste of time to talk about it!

EDITORIAL NOTE : I think THG is slowly going down... AnandTech, X-bit and HardOPC are getting better everyday. I thinks THG built a reputation and now they rest! It's bad! Often, they come a few day later with their reviews. And come on, they reviewed MOUSE PAD, who cares about MOUSE PAD review!

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A7N8X / <font color=green><b>Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green> <- <i>Is this affecting my credibility?</i>
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Radeon 8500 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290 <- <i>It's enough for WoW!</i>
December 20, 2004 9:05:14 AM

Are they using an external temp sensor or are they using the temp sensor that comes with the motherboard?

Talk about waste of money, they are using 2x3.06Ghz xeon CPU's to stream these web cams and I bet hardly anyone is bothering to watch.
December 20, 2004 11:28:16 AM

Dang! I can't believe Intel rebooted, maybe this power thing has some merit.

The MSI sensors are crap. My 3500+ can be hotter on a cold morning than after running prime for 24 hours. I can lower my temperatures by letting it heat up in prime, turning it off, unplugging power, then booting. Often takes 5c off.

Dichromatic for your viewing plesure...
December 20, 2004 11:40:15 AM

At least this useless test might show us that AMD can be more reliable than Intel! :smile:

But, I still think that we waste and they waste their time with this test. Please build the same setup in ATX Case, then start the test again.

But why the Intel crashed? Only God knows!

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A7N8X / <font color=green><b>Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green> <- <i>Is this affecting my credibility?</i>
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Radeon 8500 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290 <- <i>It's enough for WoW!</i>
December 20, 2004 11:45:42 AM

Give it a few hours. I sense a HSF popping off and some serious fireworks. Oh the mammarys.

Dichromatic for your viewing plesure...
December 20, 2004 1:33:16 PM

AMD & MSI won, Intel & Asus crashed first.
December 20, 2004 1:41:33 PM

yea! and they didnt even tell us what temp the room was, and how much humidity there was!! nor did they tell us the time of the day. what about the tide! was it in or out? what a crock for a review!!! its all relevant!
it was a test of stressing components PERIOD, not a demonstration of how a standard pc case isnt up to the task. its called a controled experiment, eliminate all the variables you can. did they miss some? probly, but they didnt miss the obvious: standard cases have [-peep-] for cooling.

this is my boomstick!
December 20, 2004 2:03:28 PM

I know that standard PC case are not perfect at all. But, how this test can be relevant?

Build 100 PC and run them side by side... This would be more relevant! Now, only 2 PC... There is so much factor still in the equation. You can't conclude anything from this test. Even if both CPU were water-cooled or nitrogen-cooled...

Aonyone can do this test with their own PC and what would we learn??? NOTHING! Come on, it's a pure waste of time, effort, electricity, etc...

Good, the Intel PC crashed once! Wow! I'm so impressed, I'll start to go to all Intel forums and I will bash Intel and praise AMD because THG prove once for all that Intel is less reliable than AMD!

I don't think this is a controlled experiment, it's an rudimentary experiment. What about crash that would accur pecause of a software bug, what about crash caused by an AC spike, what about a crash...

Sample is too small to mean something!

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A7N8X / <font color=green><b>Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green> <- <i>Is this affecting my credibility?</i>
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Radeon 8500 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290 <- <i>It's enough for WoW!</i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheRod on 12/20/04 11:05 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
December 20, 2004 11:49:32 PM

Quote:
Good, the Intel PC crashed once! Wow! I'm so impressed, I'll start to go to all Intel forums and I will bash Intel and praise AMD because THG prove once for all that Intel is less reliable than AMD!

I don't think this is a controlled experiment, it's an rudimentary experiment. What about crash that would accur pecause of a software bug, what about crash caused by an AC spike, what about a crash...


i second that!

i also built several systems for different friend and family members and AMD(s and intels.... all of them were as stable as possible and yes sometimes a PC does crash...

not all PC's are perfect and free from crash, if they would use another way to stress the CPU maybe the AMD will crash at any attempt to run it, or the intel would do that..

does that say that AMD or intel is better??

first of all the software is compiled for use with intel and with AMD, but when you compile software for only your own comp, it will run faster on your comp and maybe not even run on another one, or once you made an upgrade.

Quote:
Aonyone can do this test with their own PC and what would we learn??? NOTHING! Come on, it's a pure waste of time, effort, electricity, etc...
[/qoute]
... and come to the conclusion that any user that knows something about parts and how to build his comp will have no reboots nor crashes...

my record is 3 months without crash, i did fractal rendering, sound processing, music composition, websurfing, playing music/movies etc... downloading and all the blah blah you do on a comp (including playing games) and finally turned it off because i went on a week of vacation...

it is an intel system, okay, but does this prove intel is better??

Not at all! i'm sure that the same can be done with an AMD or even a G5 from Apple!

the real truth is that on these days the market is upgrading according to the law of bob moore: every two years everything must be doubled. This brings us to a certain limit where this becomes impossible, or possible, but then with "child deseases".

never has the famous 440 BX chipset been beaten by other manufacturers according to its speed reliance and so on

the back aspect of this 440 BX is that this chipset has been on the market for about 2 years, and that it has been preceeded by former ones that were less performant, but what made it so performant?

the simple fact that SDRAM was a standard used for many years and that the speed of the ram remained for years at 66-100-133 mhz

It is only these last three years that the front side bus and memory spoeeds have been accelerated to what they became right now.

this brings that a certain technology only lasts for 6 months and then it is already old...

in 6 months you never can bust all the small hidden problems, nor tweak a chipset to match the full capability, in a lapse of 2 years, yes

but that is of course a bit off topic :lol: 

the point i try to bring is that nowadays everything goes that fast that there is practically no difference anymore...

except for tyhe latest games where every FPS counts!

<font color=purple><i> Enosi and I.... </i></font color=purple>
December 21, 2004 2:54:02 AM

I dont know this test seems silly to say the least. What will it prove? Open case or I should say no case at all. performance? I know this is not a performance test but using a 512 kb cache vs a 1 meg cache chip? extra cache more performance with less heat. fact is 115 watts vs 89 watts. so intel has a bigger fan heat sink big deal. I would like to see this test done properly. What I mean is I find the logic behind the test as valid but the methoods questionable to say the least. What about p4 throttling? what about real world conditions in an enclosed case? what about power used as in electicity costs? what about noise? what about price of the 2 competing cpu's in the test oh thg mentions cost but why not use = costing cpu's I thought 3.6 was xeon (sort of) so compare to a 2.2 ghz 1 meg cache opteron, are not server chips under clocked for stability?.

OK OK it's about heat, but when you remove the case and one might be throttling what is the point?

Did anyone notice when the p4 crashed the <A HREF="http://www.positrakusa.com/amd_intc/" target="_new"> amd cpu cooled down </A>?


Call me biased if you like, but I do not like this test. I see it as all about nothing.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
December 21, 2004 6:18:33 PM

Use of an Intel BTX heatsink (shroudless) without a shroud is pointless and a complete waste of bandwidth and peoples time reading. Why cant they do anything right?

The fan cannot move air enough without the shroud it was designed around. Why didnt they just leave off the eatsink and position a heat gun directly at it?

useless testing that makes a good circle jerk.

<A HREF="http://www.xtremesystems.org" target="_new">www.xtremesystems.org&lt;/A>
December 21, 2004 6:35:11 PM

Well... as a grad student taking my doctorate in science I don't see anything wrong with the experiment except for the sample size. Many of you are suggesting that they should place this test inside a case, but that just adds extra variables. Optimally they would do this test in a constant humidity/pressure/temp system, but as we all know this is pretty much impossible, although it would have been nice if they had mentioned these variables. But as far as putting the test into a case, it just adds another variable. Slight variations in the way that they fit into the case, or how the wires are placed in the case would have a significant effect on the results.

The data is still viable there just isn't enough of it. They need to increase the sample size, and then to satisfy all of us they could do an additional study on the effects of placing this test in a case, but these tests should be separate, and have sufficient controls. Doing these tests separate would show us the effect that the case has on either the intel or the AMD, and doing it in a variety of cases could show a preference for various cases. If we were to just throw both of them into one case who knows which will perform better?? It might be different in a different case??
December 21, 2004 6:41:20 PM

I agree with you, but they the test is actually conducted it means nothing in a scientific point of view. Only 1 sample, no information about CPU throttling, which would be the number info to have in this kind of test.

Because, if a cpu throttle down, it would run a bit cooler or be more stable. We can't see this in the current setup.

Well, I do really hope that THG will refocus on what they were good at : prime, good and extensive PC hardware review. Today's THG looks like a high-tech tabloid, a lot of stuff without much opinion. Thomas is probably nearly millionnaire will all the agreement THG signed with Asus and other...

For myself, the "Hammer Logo" starts to rust...

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A7N8X / <font color=green><b>Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green> <- <i>Is this affecting my credibility?</i>
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Radeon 8500 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290 <- <i>It's enough for WoW!</i>
December 21, 2004 6:42:35 PM

Quote:
And where the F*ck is their VGA Chart V? IV is like sooooo outdated it's not funny!

Yup the VGA CHART was once a reference, I used to have a VGA CHART poster in my office to help people getting the right GPU for their budget!

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A7N8X / <font color=green><b>Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green> <- <i>Is this affecting my credibility?</i>
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Radeon 8500 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290 <- <i>It's enough for WoW!</i>
December 21, 2004 7:02:43 PM

It is fairly obvious that anandtech is becoming a fierce competitor with THG, and I hope that they can conduct a test soon with a more significant sample area although I do understand that this is a much more costly alternative, but you have to spend money to make money, right??
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