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Help Verify My Upgrade Specs

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December 30, 2004 7:28:20 AM

Hi all,
Some of you have been nice enough to post in some of my other threads about my upgrade taking place shortly, so i just wanted to run down the specs on what i'm planning to do, and see if anyone has any better ideas or can tell me if somethings incompatible, etc... etc...


Being Purchased:

<b>(1)</b> ASUS P5AD2-E Premium i925XE Chipset Motherboard
<b>(2)</b> Intel Pentium 4 560J 3.60GHz LGA775 Proccessor
(Overclocked to 3.8Ghz @ 1066MHz FSB)
<b>(3)</b> Corsair XMS2 Series Dual Channel Kit 1GB(512MB*2)
DDR2-675 PC2-5400 (*2 for a total of 2GB)
(Overclocked to 1066MHz FSB)
<b>(4)</b> ATi FireGL V7100 256MB GDDR3 PCIe Video Card
<b>(5)</b> Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive
<b>(6)</b> Enermax Noisetaker AX ATX 12V v2.0 485W Power Supply
<b>(7)</b> Zalman CNPS7700 All Copper CPU Cooler (Socket775)
<b>(8)</b> Arctic Silver Premium Silver Polysynthetic Silver
Thermal Compound
<b>(9)</b> Sony Internal 16x DVD+-R/RW Double Layer Drive


Already Have or Being Pulled From My Old System:

<b>(10)</b> Creative Labs Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS
<b>(11)</b> Thermaltake Xaser III full tower Case (7 80mm fans)
<b>(12)</b> Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM EIDE Hard Drive
<b>(13)</b> Seagate 160GB 7200RPM EIDE Hard Drive
<b>(14)</b> Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM EIDE Hard Drive
<b>(15)</b> Buslink 4x DVD+-R/RW Drive
<b>(16)</b> Floppy
<b>(17)</b> 2 Samsung 17" LCD Monitors
<b>(18)</b> Creative Labs P7800 7.1 Surround Speakers
<b>(19)</b> Logitech Cordless Keyboard/Opt. Mouse Combo


Ok i think that's all that matters. Does anyone see any problems or conflicts with that configuration?


I also have one question concerning the Hard Drives. I want to use the new Maxtor SATA HDD as my system drive, but i'm also going to have a couple other IDE HDD's attached as well. That should be no problem correct? The reason i ask is that i built a system recently with a SATA system drive, and when i put an IDE drive in to take some data off of it, the system tried to boot from the IDE drive. I obviously don't want that, i want my new system to boot from the SATA drive always, and use my IDE drives for storage.

(Hmmm for those familiar with the P5AD2-E Premium, the SATA drive will be on the SATA 1 Channel, the 250GB IDE drive on the IDE RAID 1 Channel (set as a stand alone drive), and the 160GB and 80GB on the IDE RAID 2 channel in a RAID0 Array, and the two DVD drives on the primary IDE channel.)

As always, any feedback is appriciated!

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by LogicSequence on 12/30/04 04:36 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

More about : verify upgrade specs

December 30, 2004 9:53:50 AM

You can easily avoid booting from a IDE harddrive by correctly setting up the boot sequence. Choose the SATA controller to be the first device.

There is a problem with the RAID IDE setup you suggest. The mainboard has 3 IDE channels, which means a maximum of 6 IDE drives. 2 of the channels are being used for the RAID controller. If you are going to hookup 3 harddrives the way you suggest it won't be RAID0 but it will be JBOD (just a bunch of drives) on the Silicon Image controller. The optical drives will be on the Intel IDE controller with one being slave, the other master.
There also won't be a lot of difference between using the 250GB SATA or IDE as bootdisk, both probably are equally fast. Instead of usning 1 250GB SATA you can also buy 2x120GB SATA and set them up in RAID0 which costs about the same but is twice as fast. Of course it is not as reliable but it will be a lot faster for harddrive intensive applications. If you use a normal setup for the other IDE harddrives (I doubt how much faster JBOD would be, maybe others might tell you more about that) instead of JBOD you can use those for longtime storage and the RAID-setup as the system drive and "working" disks, especially if you partition them in the right way.
The power supply you have listed is quite powerful but if you're going to connect the entire list... Well, there are websites which tell you how much you need but I can't find them right now. But at about 25 for each burner and harddrive, about 100 for CPU, 40 for the mainboard, 50 or someting for the memory, 25 for all the fans and a little something for floppy drive and Audigy and a big unknown for the FireGL it might come close especially with the overclock. It's gonna take a lot from your 12 en 5 V rails.

Well, good luck!
Related resources
December 30, 2004 12:15:40 PM

Hey, thanx for responding. JBOD is fine with me, i can live with that, i just don't want boot conflicts (and yea i know about the boot sequence, weird thing is that in that system i built that i mentioned, when i attached an IDE hard drive, it would no longer list the SATA Drive as a bootable device, that's why i asked).

I know the PSU is powerful, but with what i'm building, if anything, it may be a LITTLE underpowered...

Anyways, it was one of the only decent mid-range ATX 2.0 PSU's i could find that met my standards. I didn't want to plug a standard ATX PSU into a board that CAN support 2.0, esp seeing as ASUS doesn't recommend doing so.


PLEASE, anyone else care to comment? i'd still like more feedback! THANX!
December 30, 2004 4:10:23 PM

Ummmmm, how do you plan to do this:
Quote:
Intel Pentium 4 560J 3.60GHz LGA775 Proccessor
(Overclocked to 3.8Ghz @ 1066MHz FSB)

????????

There's not even a multiplier that will get you 3.8. You can get 4.0 or 3.73 (not sure if the P4's open multipliers even go low enough for that one!)....but how you get 3.8 is beyond me.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
a b à CPUs
December 30, 2004 10:20:22 PM

Hehe, I get 3.73 with the multiplier drop too.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
December 30, 2004 11:06:01 PM

actually i'm running out of storage space. the 0.5 Terabyte (total) i have now is 90% full. Video takes up a lot of GBs.
December 31, 2004 5:30:15 AM

Are they really that much faster?? What's different about them as apposed to any other drive?
December 31, 2004 9:02:17 AM

The only difference really is speed (10.000 RPM instead of 7200 RPM), it will really make a huge difference if you use on of those for the HD intensive tasks. Of course they come with just a bit more sound and more heat.
The other option is, like I said, putting 2 120GB disks in RAID0.
And I thought again about your JBOD setup: If it has no real speed advantage and is just for storage I wouldn't put the drives in JBOD but use them just as single drives. Some of those drives are not that new and the chance one of those gives up on you is there. You'll just have some more drives...
January 2, 2005 2:21:23 PM

I just built a 775 system, and based on what I know now from having one, and all that I read prior to buiding it, you can probably forget that big overclock unless you plan on cooling with liquid. How much does that Mobo cost? Is it the $240.00 version? I bought the Epox 5EPA for $115.00 and it overclocks very nice. If you saved that much money, you could use the savings and get a liquid cooling system. My CPU is the 3.4 version and im not very far from breaking 4.0! If your not going to use liquid to cool a 775, I would suggest that you get a different CPU.
January 2, 2005 2:25:34 PM

I didnt read your specs correctly. I thought that you put 3.06 not 3.6. Anyway, heat is going to be a huge issue with the 775 regardless. Think really hard about this before you make a decision. Like I said, if your not going to cool it with liquid then your asking for trouble..
January 2, 2005 3:04:47 PM

I was under the impression that enermax was a decent PSU until I read this:

"In the 450-Watt-and-above class, a 200-Watt restriction is very low, such as with the Enermax and Noisemagic power supplies. Also, the combined load of the three plus-Volt lines for the Enermax EG465AX-VE(W) FMAX is rated at a mere 432 Watts. That means that output is a far cry from that suggested by the product name."

<A HREF="http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20030609/power_suppl..." target="_new">THG</A>

if I was you I might consider something else, with such a power hungry system
January 2, 2005 3:08:11 PM

Quote:
I thought that you put 3.06 not 3.6. Anyway, heat is going to be a huge issue with the 775 regardless.


Bah, you were'nt that off with the 3.06GHz figure, his expensive 3.6GHz P4 will end up throttling down to 2.8GHz under load anyway, especially if overclocked.

Gotta love Intel's paper tiger...



Watercooled Mobile Barton 2500+ @ 2.6GHz (200MHz x 13)
Abit NF7-S V2.0
2x 512MB of Samsung TCC4
Sapphire Radeon 9700 128MB @ 360/310
2x Maxtor 40GB 7200RPM RAID-0
January 3, 2005 2:30:25 AM

So far my 3.4 775 is running 33 - 36c under full load and clocked up as high as 3.918. I am cooling with liquid though. There isnt any doubt that CPU would be way to hot with only air. My Northbridge is proof of that, but now I have that heat issue under control also.
January 3, 2005 3:44:34 AM

Quote:
I am cooling with liquid though. There isnt any doubt that CPU would be way to hot with only air.


Lets me wonder how long 'till watercooling become the standard cooling solution on stock systems...

I'm glad that I switched from air to liquid but I belive that stock watercooling might scare would be Do It Yourselvers.

Was 4GHz the highest you could go ?



Watercooled Mobile Barton 2500+ @ 2.6GHz (200MHz x 13)
Abit NF7-S V2.0
2x 512MB of Samsung TCC4
Sapphire Radeon 9700 128MB @ 360/310
2x Maxtor 40GB 7200RPM RAID-0
January 3, 2005 4:26:58 AM

Quote:
I belive that stock watercooling might scare would be Do It Yourselvers

It scares the hell out of me, but I spill anything, even when I'm sober.
January 3, 2005 2:59:07 PM

Well do keep in mind, i'm not using the boxed cooler, i'll be using a Zalman 7700, combined with SEVEN 80mm case fans in my Xaser III case, not to mention the ambient temperature in my room goes no higher than 65F (18.33C) degrees.

From what i've read reguarding results from the zalman, i beleive it will be able to handle the heat issue. Average Idle's with the Zalman are around 33C, and full loads around 38-42C (on 775s). IF that holds true, and i've done a lot of research and it appears to hold true, then i don't beleive throttling will be an issue.

You also have to bere in mind i'm getting a 560J not 560, the 560J comes with enhanced halt state and thermal monitoring 2, which also improve heat loss. Also, the P5AD2-E Premium comes with a special heat dissipation plate on the back of the mobo that further dissipates heat.
January 3, 2005 8:06:15 PM

Quote:
Well do keep in mind, i'm not using the boxed cooler, i'll be using a Zalman 7700, combined with SEVEN 80mm case fans in my Xaser III case, not to mention the ambient temperature in my room goes no higher than 65F (18.33C) degrees.

Thats all fine and good, but im trying to tell you from expereince that these CPU's put off alot more heat than you would think. If you had a air line running from your air conditioner directly into your case the cold air by itself wouldnt cool this CPU good enough. You mentioned that the CPU had advanced heat monitoring. That doesnt buy you performance, it just protects the CPU. Now the protection is great, but if the CPU is throttling back then you are just peeing into the wind. Agian, I am very pleased with my new system, however I doubt that you will be able to buy some of the components at the price that I did. For instance I lucked up and won a bid on my CPU for $200.00 including shipping. That was months ago, and I havent seen one go for that since then.

I think that you have your mind made up, and I wish you the best. The thing that I can't get past with the setup that your looking at is that you don't mind spending all this money for very nice equipment, however your not willing to shell out another $80.00 to cool it properly. The reason that I used $80.00 is that if you take the money that you would pay for the heatsink and place it on the liquid cooling system then the difference would be about $80.00 for the one that I got. Do as you wish, your satisfaction with your choice is the most important outcome. You really need to do alot more research though. If Intel is the way that you want to go, then the 478 CPU is ripping the 775 CPU's to pieces at least in the benchmarks that I looked at. Go to the 3D Mark website and look at the highest benchmarks for any 775 CPU and your pick of video card. A fast CPU alone doesnt mean anything if the the overall system benchmarks don't compete. AMD is the way to go, and that statement is coming from someone that only runs Intel systems! Now that is about as unbiased as you will likely hear.
January 3, 2005 8:20:48 PM

Quote:
Lets me wonder how long 'till watercooling become the standard cooling solution on stock systems...

Ive thought the same thing many times. Im all for Intel, they have accounted for 95% of the comps that I have owned, however if they dont do something about there heat issue then I would think that Liquid will become closer to the standard. For the average user, I dont see liquid becoming the way to go simply because most people wouldnt be able or willing to figure out how to use the system. For the overclocker, now that I have seen what liquid is capable of, I will be using it until they come up with something even better. Im really curious to find out how much longer "if any" that the liquid cooling will extend the life of the CPU especially for overclockers.

Quote:
Was 4GHz the highest you could go ?

So far thats been my high. I hit that number about an hour after I got all the drivers and OS setup. This CPU is new to me so I dont know all the little tweaks and tricks to squeeze all of the jucie out yet. I would think that it still has some room to stretch. We shall see with time.
January 3, 2005 10:47:23 PM

my problem is simple, albeit 2-fold.

A. Electronics and liquid don't mix, and i don't trust myself not to spill, it seems way way way too risky to me.

B. It's too expensive. If i go liquid i'll either have to get a PSU that's liquid cooled, or get an external liquid cooling system for the processor only, and either way that's over $250-350. Not to mention i'd probably have to get a new case. That's just way too much money. i'm over budget as it is.
January 3, 2005 10:55:59 PM
January 3, 2005 11:32:52 PM

Dont sweat it. With the fans you are running, and the aircond you have, the only problem you will have is the rise in your electric bill. With that kind of cooling, the prescotts become an okay chip.
January 4, 2005 12:20:45 AM

LoL my electric bill is astronomical anyways, i doubt i'd notice much of a difference. I live in La., where winter lasts 2 weeks and summer lasts 50 weeks. Needless to say the A/C runs in this place 24/7.

I did a lot of research on cooling the prescott, which lead me to the zalman and the thermaltake tower, which imho is ugly, so i went with the zalman. Everything i've read indicates that it should be ok like u said endyen.

But still, if others have an opinion, please keep posting... but.. ehh... no nastiness please!
January 4, 2005 12:59:47 AM

7-80mm fans??? holy moly rocky. I may not be an expert but you might be better off using just 3 or 4 120mm fans, which would provide nearly twice air flow and nearly half the noise. ....that is unless of course you like living near an air strip. LOL

That zalman CPU cooler you are going to aquire even has a 120mm fan. I know its hard to find cases that are 120mm ready but there are a few. My Silverstone Temjin has 120mm mount for front and back and then another for the top blow hole, coupled with the Zalman, I believe that will be adequate for my A64 3700+ ( forgot to mention the HDD coolers for the dual raptors running in raid 0 - my bad :D )
January 4, 2005 1:02:09 AM

Quote:
A. Electronics and liquid don't mix, and i don't trust myself not to spill, it seems way way way too risky to me

Thats not always correct. There are liquids that arent good conductors of electricty. A motherboard can be submerged in certain liquids. I do understand what your saying though.

Quote:
B. It's too expensive. If i go liquid i'll either have to get a PSU that's liquid cooled, or get an external liquid cooling system for the processor only, and either way that's over $250-350. Not to mention i'd probably have to get a new case. That's just way too much money. i'm over budget as it is.

What are you talking about? You can use the same PSU either way. You dont have to buy a special case either. You keep saying that you have done all this research, but you havent done near enough. Like I said earlier, you have made up your mind so go ahead.

Your numbers are no where close to correct on the liquid cooling. Maybe you could spend that much, but you dont have to. I tried to tell you that it wouldnt cost more than around $80.00 so where you came up with $250.00-$350.00 I have no idea. If you took the money that you would have spent on the 770 heatsink and put it towards the liquid cooler then it would only cost around $80.00 Its not that complicated! Cost of Zalman ($50.00) Cost of Themaltake Cooling system ($150.00) You dont add them together because you would have one or the other not both. No need to respond, I was just clearing those numbers that you posted up so they didnt confuse others.
January 4, 2005 1:17:55 AM

Post titled: Help Verify My Upgrade Specs

Should be be renamed to: I don't need any help, my mind is like a steel trap.


hehehehe
January 4, 2005 1:28:02 AM

Thats what I was thinking! LMAO :eek: 
January 4, 2005 2:06:13 AM

More like "Bragging about what I can Buy". He forgot to mention the sticker that says "Intel inside, Idiot outside", but when people smerk when he mentions his system, and what he uses it for, he will know that they know what we already know, ah, but I just dont know.
January 4, 2005 2:11:04 AM

But still.....

nothing like the smell of roasted p4 in the morning.....

;) 

AMD 64 3700+,ASUS K8N-E Deluxe-250gb,1.5 gb PC3200,Gigabyte GeForce 6800gt 256mb,Audigy 2 ZS , 2-36.7gb 10,000 rpm Raptors/Raid 0, Thermaltake butterfly 480 watt PSU , + asst. other amenities.....
January 4, 2005 1:53:54 PM

OK, the blatant and vulgar flaming that you people just shot at me was not only uncalled for, but it was rude, discourteous, and offensive.

I was trying to get real advice on this matter, and trying to state my side of the argument and my reasoning as well. Yet people like mozzartusm, lazerous, and endyen seem more interested in debasing and degrading me and my opinions with their undignified attacks, than offering any real help. I didn't start lobbing insults and mockery at you, why is it fair for you to do that to me?

I said at the very start of this thread that I was making this an Intel system, and that I wanted everyone to know that so people wouldn't start a pro-AMD flaming war, yet you seem intent on making that happen by ragging on me for choosing the P4. And your accusations that I’m trying in some way to brag about "what I can buy" are just plain WRONG, and you would know that if you had bothered to ask about it in a polite way.

And endyen, you calling me an idiot was the most rude and offensive statement of them all. If you have a problem then I suggest you state your case and stop resorting to childish grade school name calling.

If you people spent more time suggesting and supporting your arguments than taunting and teasing like third graders, maybe people would take your opinions more seriously.
January 4, 2005 6:30:49 PM

Im not trying to start an AMD vs Intel war. I just finished building an Intel P4 775. You asked for input, and some of us gave you input. You ask for it when you repeatedly state that you have done alot of research, and then you make statements that are not based on any credible research. As far as people taking us serious, if I spend time trying to help someone, and they ignore or refuse to think about what I have said then I am not going to take them anymore serious than they are taking me. You didnt hear exactly what you wanted to hear so you are now mad at us. If you read back through your post and allow yourself to be objective then you may catch onto what I am talking about. Your post has been looked at quite a few times, maybe if you would have been a little more open minded then you might have gotten more replys from different people. I guess you will think that I am flaming you by saying all of this.
January 4, 2005 10:49:59 PM

I believe that liquids that aren't good conductors also aren't good coolers.
January 4, 2005 11:18:29 PM

I suggest you re-read my post, in a less defensive mode.
If you took offense, I apologize. It was ment stricktly in humour.
As far as the sticker goes, it is what was implied by the Intel people who wrote the original.
There are many valid reasons to buy Intel now. The parts you have chosen should make a great system. I am sure you will be happy.
January 5, 2005 12:34:32 AM

"There are many valid reasons to buy Intel now."

Such as?

nah! just kidding!

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
January 5, 2005 2:20:51 AM

Ya' know.....
Some people here given you some very valuable advice and some very positive suggestions. If you can actually see the nose in front of your face(so to speak) you will see that you threw it right back at 'em. You had your mind made up before you made this post or surely you would have exhibited a modicum of humility and at least accepted their advice with grace. If you felt like you were being attacked because of your choices then maybe you should have just stuck with them and not asked for advice but in that you asked for it, people gave it. I still believe you were more looking for a pat on the back rather than useful advice.

Anger management classes starting Wednesday, January 5th 2005.......

AMD 64 3700+,ASUS K8N-E Deluxe-250gb,1.5 gb PC3200,Gigabyte GeForce 6800gt 256mb,Audigy 2 ZS , 2-36.7gb 10,000 rpm Raptors/Raid 0, Thermaltake butterfly 480 watt PSU , + asst. other amenities.....
January 5, 2005 4:38:32 AM

As soon as I can find someone that has a descent video cam that I borrow for a couple of hours, I am going to post something interesting that I have been playing around with for a couple of months. There are a couple of different liquids that do a very good job of cooling. Just curious though, why do you think otherwise? Im serious, that is a legit question, im not taking a shot at you. Im just wondering if you have had some bad experience with liquid.
January 5, 2005 4:42:41 AM

Quote:
Anger management classes starting Wednesday, January 5th 2005.......



That is funny to me because I am a grad student in Psychology. I have actually moderated group anger management in the past. My biggest problem was keeping my temper in check :eek: 
January 5, 2005 1:29:13 PM

I didn't say liquids don't cool well, I said that liquids that don't conduct well don't cool well.

you know how you have to add anti-freeze to your radiator so it will not freeze?, also so it will cool your car better. distilled water isn't a conductor, it also doesn't cool well

that's what I meant. a liquid that doesn't behave well as a conductor, also won't behave well as a coolant
January 5, 2005 2:58:28 PM

I gotcha now, sorry about the confusion.
January 5, 2005 10:42:41 PM

Dont get thermal conductivity confused with electrical conductivity. Pure water is a much better thermal conductor than it is an electrical conductor. Electrical conduction requires valence electrons in the 7th ring, thermal conduction is based on the oscilation of the entire atom. Big difference.
January 6, 2005 8:14:39 AM

"For metals, the thermal conductivity is quite high, and those metals which are the best electrical conductors are also the best thermal conductors."
<A HREF="http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/therc..." target="_new">clicky</A>

"Metals are much better thermal conductors than non-metals because the same mobile electrons which participate in electrical conduction also take part in the transfer of heat."

same link as above, and next is what you were talking about, vibration of atoms or molecules

"For non-metallic solids, the heat transfer is view as being transferred via lattice vibrations, as atoms vibrating more energetically at one part of a solid transfer that energy to less energetic neighboring atoms. This can be enhanced by cooperative motion in the form of propagating lattice waves, which in the quantum limit are quantized as phonons. Practically, there is so much variability for non-metallic solids that we normally just characterize the substance with a measured thermal conductivity when doing ordinary calculations."

but I believe they are talking about solids there. and pure water is not a very good thermal conductor. when you put water with various salts, minerals and chlorine in your radiator it still isn't the best coolant, you have to mix it close to 50% with antifreeze. if I remember right the solvents give the water a similar effect to the same loose electrons as you have in metals.

so, it would appear depending on what you're talking about there is a relationship between thermal conductivity and electrical conductivity
January 6, 2005 8:52:48 AM

Quote:
Pure water is a much better thermal conductor than it is an electrical conductor.

If im reading this right, all he was saying is that Water is much better as a thermal conduction medium than it is as an electrical conduction medium. This is correct BTW.
January 6, 2005 9:37:49 AM

Just FYI, heat transfer in fluids is called convection.
The electrical conductivity of pure water is nil. Convection in water, is quite good, and is not improved with additives.
The primary function of antifreeze, is to keep water a liquid under a wide temperature range.
Addatives in a water cooling system cause erosion, pitting, and deposits. Because of this, most serious water cooling freaks prefer distilled water.
The primary advantage to water cooling over metal cooling, is the mass that can be brought into contact with the source, and them moved away for cooling.
The big reason I dont use water, is because while the water is a poor conductor, as soon as it leaks, it picks up a lot of carbon based dust, which makes it a great conductor, very quickly.
January 6, 2005 12:39:11 PM

why don't you try telling that to a mechanic, that anti-freeze doesn't help with water's cooling. either that or do some research to see just how mistaken you actually are.

didn't you even go to that link I provided? it said non-metals are NOT good coolers because of the way they transfer heat. you're not arguing logic, you insist on being right, even when you are wrong.
January 6, 2005 2:38:32 PM

Umm, I've always been told by mechanics and people in the know that water is better at cooling than antifreeze. The reason you add coolant is to do 2 things: 1) antifreeze. Etylene glycol in a 50/50 mix lowers the freezing point to around -30f. 2) anti-boil. Same mix raises boiling point to about 255f.

links and quotes:

<A HREF="http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/redtech3.htm" target="_new">http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/redtech3.htm&lt;/A>

Quote:
THERMAL PROPERTIES
Water has amazingly superior heat transfer properties compared to virtually any other liquid cooling medium - far superior to glycol-based coolants. As shown in Table 1, water has almost 2.5 times greater thermal conductivity compared to glycol coolants.


There's a table of thermal properties just below that paragraph.

<A HREF="http://www.techshop-ets.com/ts604/ts60424.htm" target="_new">http://www.techshop-ets.com/ts604/ts60424.htm&lt;/A>

Quote:
Increasing the concentration of either type of antifreeze will raise the boiling protection and lower the freezing protection. Even so, the maximum concentration of antifreeze should not exceed 70% because too much antifreeze and not enough water reduces the coolant's ability to carry heat,


<A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/ia2/vmax/coolantnotes.htm" target="_new">http://www.angelfire.com/ia2/vmax/coolantnotes.htm&lt;/A>
Quote:
Why use a Coolant?
----The main purpose of mixing glycol with water is to lower the freezing point and to raise the boiling point of the coolant mixture. Glycol also improves
the anti-corrosion properties of the water. But glycol affects the heat transfer characteristics adversely, to a small extent. Pure ethylene glycol has a thermal conductivity coefficient only 40% that of water.


It seems that these are reliable sources of information. If you'ld like I can research further.

Mike.
January 6, 2005 9:23:12 PM

guess I remembered that wrong.
January 7, 2005 2:00:31 AM

We must have a bunch of kids here. Water is just fine in an engine cooling system in Hawaii with the addition of one thing: water pump lubricant. Antifreeze lubricates also along with raising the boiling point and lowering the freezing point. Water is a terrible lubricant.

Abit IS7 - 3.0C @ 3.6ghz - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
Samsung 120gb ATA-100 - Maxtor 40gb ATA - 100
Sony DRU-510A - Yellowtail Merlot
January 7, 2005 2:44:30 AM

Gee Craig, you are usually more on the ball than that. Most waterpump berring are sealed. What you mean, I think, is anti-oxident, to keep the parts from oxidation. I wouldn't want to run a car in Hawaii without some antifreeze though, as most vehicles will suffer vapour lock, any time the environmental temps rise above 85f (30c).
January 8, 2005 6:10:39 AM

Now that things have calmed down a little...

-->ASSUMING<-- I decide to go down the liquid cooling rout, what rig should i get? I have almost NO room inside my case for a radiator or pump, so i'm guessing it would have to be external. That left me looking at Thermaltake's Aquarius III. Yes? No? Alternatives?
!