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TZ Replacement Clock Boards

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Anonymous
September 9, 2005 6:38:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I want to replace the clock boards in a TZ I recently acquired with
the LED boards. I noticed you can get a set of "exact" replacement
boards from Pbliz.com for $120, or an "improved single board" version
from marcospecialties.com for $79.95. The single board sounds better
to me (cheaper, less parts), so can anyone comment on the differences
or why I shouldn't get it instead? Just curious if anyone's gotten
one or has info. Thanks,
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 6:38:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

You can Google almost endlessly on this, but the
end result we be that the Liz boards are the best, and
the tech support that goes with them is unsurpassed.

These are the only boards I install in any TZ that I
service or repair. My TZ has the protos. :) 

(And they work very well, too)

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************


"Strohz" <strohz@yahoo.com> wrote

> I want to replace the clock boards in a TZ I recently acquired with
> the LED boards. I noticed you can get a set of "exact" replacement
> boards from Pbliz.com for $120, or an "improved single board" version
> from marcospecialties.com for $79.95. The single board sounds better
> to me (cheaper, less parts), so can anyone comment on the differences
> or why I shouldn't get it instead? Just curious if anyone's gotten
> one or has info. Thanks,
>
>
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 6:38:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I've got a set of the Liz's since they first came out and still working
great in commercial use. Thanks Joel ! LTG :) 

"Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
news:D fqtum0slj@enews4.newsguy.com...
> You can Google almost endlessly on this, but the
> end result we be that the Liz boards are the best, and
> the tech support that goes with them is unsurpassed.
>
> These are the only boards I install in any TZ that I
> service or repair. My TZ has the protos. :) 
>
> (And they work very well, too)
>
> --
> Fred
> TX
> CARGPB#8
> ******************
Related resources
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 9:52:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Given that many of us here would be making that swap for home use
anyway, would the industrial strength PBLiz board even be necessary?
Why not save all that cash and go for the single board model for home
use?
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 10:08:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Yes *I* have....

Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
===========================

Joseph A. 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:
> Fred, in the interest of fairness, have you (or anyone) actually done a
> factual comparison between the different board sets that are available? I
> know you're a PinLiz cheerleader - and I agree that they make some great stuff
> - but an unbiased A-B comparison would be useful. The one-board design is
> intriguing since it does eliminate that troublesome interboard connector.
>
> Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
>
> In article <dfqtum0slj@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Fred Kemper"
> <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote:
> > You can Google almost endlessly on this, but the
> >end result we be that the Liz boards are the best, and
> >the tech support that goes with them is unsurpassed.
> >
> >These are the only boards I install in any TZ that I
> >service or repair. My TZ has the protos. :) 
> >
> >(And they work very well, too)
> >
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 11:04:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Fred Kemper wrote:
> Yes *I* have....


Since you've done it, could you share your data with us? Thanks! I
have to make this decision myself very soon.

Chad
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 3:17:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Fred, in the interest of fairness, have you (or anyone) actually done a
factual comparison between the different board sets that are available? I
know you're a PinLiz cheerleader - and I agree that they make some great stuff
- but an unbiased A-B comparison would be useful. The one-board design is
intriguing since it does eliminate that troublesome interboard connector.

Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic

In article <dfqtum0slj@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Fred Kemper"
<pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote:
> You can Google almost endlessly on this, but the
>end result we be that the Liz boards are the best, and
>the tech support that goes with them is unsurpassed.
>
>These are the only boards I install in any TZ that I
>service or repair. My TZ has the protos. :) 
>
>(And they work very well, too)
>
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 8:43:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

"Strohz" <strohz@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f2t1i1llbu1od8n83dsd5bmsb8dg0kv05a@4ax.com...
>I want to replace the clock boards in a TZ I recently acquired with
> the LED boards. I noticed you can get a set of "exact" replacement
> boards from Pbliz.com for $120, or an "improved single board" version
> from marcospecialties.com for $79.95. The single board sounds better
> to me (cheaper, less parts), so can anyone comment on the differences
> or why I shouldn't get it instead? Just curious if anyone's gotten
> one or has info. Thanks,
>
>

Buy the same (Rottendog Amusements) board you saw at Marco from the
manufacturer for even less - $80 shipped:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/rottendog/index.htm

I did, a year ago, and it has worked flawlessly ever since.
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 9:29:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Earth to Fred, earth to Fred; come in, Fred. Please share your data.

[The deafening silence reverberates, broken by the occasional chirp of
a cricket ...]
September 10, 2005 11:51:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Looking at pictures and other info on the two boards:

PBLiz:
SMT LEDs = better diffusion but less light
Schmitt optos = less signal problems
Parallel opto emitters = 2W heat dissipation (warms the clock)
Construction quality reported high

Rottendog:
5mm LEDs = more light but pattern may be uneven
Can't tell the optos. They are not Schmitt, but could be high-gain or
darlington
Parallel opto emitters
Can't tell construction quality but the single board approach seems
good.


Series opto emitters would save 1.5W of power, and probably eliminate
any noticeable warming of the clock. You could get to 1.75, but that
would be pushing it.

I don't have either, I fixed my original. That's also a viable solution.
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 3:41:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

It is not possible as anything I have to offer will
be considered biased or perceived as an attack.

Sorry.

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************


"Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic" <tonydz@comcast.net> wrote in message news:1126355394.280093.179700@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Earth to Fred, earth to Fred; come in, Fred. Please share your data.
>
> [The deafening silence reverberates, broken by the occasional chirp of
> a cricket ...]
>
September 10, 2005 7:25:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I'll throw out my experience.

It is my understanding that Joel at Pinliz has extensive professional
training and experience with Pcbs.

He also stands behind his products.

I had some trouble with my clock which in the end had absolutely nothing to
do with the Pinliz boards. Joel knows that clock inside out and he spent
hours with me on the phone so I could fix it myself. I replaced the boards
because they were an issue but the clock had underlying mechanical
issues(siezed gears) and Joel spent a ton of time and energy with me so I
could get the thing fixed. This was expertise that Joel gave me free of
charge that had nothing to do with the boards. He just wanted my clock to
work. I was very appreciative.

In addition, I have never read on this board of anyone having a Pinliz
product that didn't work as advertised. I have read of problems with some of
the others.

Otto

CARGPB11

My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
September 10, 2005 7:41:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I will second that sentiment. I bought a PinLiz clock board set and the
problem persisted because of other issues with my clock. He has helped me
out even though it really isn't his problem. I would go with Pinliz board
just due to that fact. I also have his proximity detector and I've never
had a problem with it.

Eric

"Otto" <ottondebremove&%$*@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:kpGUe.1094$ED3.92@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> I'll throw out my experience.
>
> It is my understanding that Joel at Pinliz has extensive professional
> training and experience with Pcbs.
>
> He also stands behind his products.
>
> I had some trouble with my clock which in the end had absolutely nothing
to
> do with the Pinliz boards. Joel knows that clock inside out and he spent
> hours with me on the phone so I could fix it myself. I replaced the boards
> because they were an issue but the clock had underlying mechanical
> issues(siezed gears) and Joel spent a ton of time and energy with me so I
> could get the thing fixed. This was expertise that Joel gave me free of
> charge that had nothing to do with the boards. He just wanted my clock to
> work. I was very appreciative.
>
> In addition, I have never read on this board of anyone having a Pinliz
> product that didn't work as advertised. I have read of problems with some
of
> the others.
>
> Otto
>
> CARGPB11
>
> My web page: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-Ottoslanding
>
>
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 9:46:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Great cop-out, Fred. I don't think anyone will buy it, though. If you have
facts to share - as opposed to a personal (cheerleading) opinion - then who
cares how it is perceived? Present both sides, and if the data supports your
opinion, you're golden.

And that's not a dig against PinLiz, either, so don't construe it as one.

Tony

In article <dfv2c401k2p@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Fred Kemper"
<pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote:
> It is not possible as anything I have to offer will
>be considered biased or perceived as an attack.
>
>Sorry.
>
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 9:46:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Not a cop-out, it's a matter of history on rgp.

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************


"Joseph A. 'Tony' Dziedzic" <tonydz@comcast.net> wrote in message news:HcGdnU7TKehphr7eRVn-jA@comcast.com...
> Great cop-out, Fred. I don't think anyone will buy it, though. If you have
> facts to share - as opposed to a personal (cheerleading) opinion - then who
> cares how it is perceived? Present both sides, and if the data supports your
> opinion, you're golden.
>
> And that's not a dig against PinLiz, either, so don't construe it as one.
>
> Tony
>
> In article <dfv2c401k2p@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Fred Kemper"
> <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote:
> > It is not possible as anything I have to offer will
> >be considered biased or perceived as an attack.
> >
> >Sorry.
> >
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 11:28:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I replaced my clock board with PBLiz boards a few years ago. Joel
answered a bunch of questions I had regarding the replacement, and
showed me he was not in a hurry to just sell me a set of boards. I've
been completely satisfied with the extra money paid compared to other
board sets.

I searched through all available information at the time, but could not
dig up any helpfull information that would have made me look a lot
harder at any other board sets.

Actually speaking of TZ clocks, I saw a proto TZ today that had a clock
that was so quiet, I could barely hear the gears as it wound. Mine is
not terribly loud, but this one was dead silent. The owner did not know
if the motor was replaced or if any lube was put on the gears. Wanted
$3600 for it, I did not think in its condition it was worth it.

Steve
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 11:42:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I replaced my clock board with PBLiz boards a few years ago. Joel
answered a bunch of questions I had regarding the replacement, and
showed me he was not in a hurry to just sell me a set of boards. I've
been completely satisfied with the extra money paid compared to other
board sets.

I searched through all available information at the time, but could not
dig up any helpfull information that would have made me look a lot
harder at any other board sets.

Actually speaking of TZ clocks, I saw a proto TZ today that had a clock
that was so quiet, I could barely hear the gears as it wound. Mine is
not terribly loud, but this one was dead silent. The owner did not know
if the motor was replaced or if any lube was put on the gears. Wanted
$3600 for it, I did not think in its condition it was worth it.

Steve
September 11, 2005 1:30:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

We should back up here. Why do you want to replace your boards? Are
they broken, or do you just want LEDs?

here's a picture of my modded board. The board itself looks ugly burnt,
but works just fine.

If your board is broken, then maybe replacing it is in order. if not,
then you might try the LED mod yourself first.
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 1:56:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Yes, it is a cop-out, and your reference to "rgp history" is just a diversion.
Either you have the facts to support your position, or you don't. If the
former, then provide the facts for the folks who have asked a question that
indicates they are trying to learn something. If the latter, then simply
admit it, and quit trying to dress up an opinion and present it as something
else.

To elaborate, one of the folks who asked about the differences (Chad) is a
relatively new collector from the New England area; he's been working to bring
a neglected TZ back into working order. We've been helping him on the Boston
Pinball Yahoo group, and he's made excellent progress over the past few
months.

One of my first suggestions to him was to buy a PinLiz proxmity sensor board
to fix his recurring switch #26 problems; that's what I do for the TZs that I
restore. I think the Liz's stuff is well-engineered, and I've always had
positive dealings with Joel.

Now Chad needs a clock board set, and wants to learn WHY he should pay about
$50 more for one option over another. Customer service is certainly a valid
point, but can you enumerate any technical reasons that make the Liz's clock
board set better than Jim (Rottendog) Knight's? I've heard that Jim also goes
out of his way to support his products, although I've never personally bought
anything from him.

Tony

In article <dfv74v11q3s@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Fred Kemper"
<pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote:
> Not a cop-out, it's a matter of history on rgp.
>
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 1:56:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I've stated all I'm going to on rgp in
regards to this thread. From now
on, all you're going to get is a "rerun".

It is not a cop-out as stated. I've given
the reason(s) in a previous post in this
thread, and I suppose you will have to
be content with that. It is more than just
my opinion, you can be sure.

I have dealt with Chad privately as well.

--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************

"Joseph A. 'Tony' Dziedzic" <tonydz@comcast.net> wrote in message news:UumdnRQISsM_y77eRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> Yes, it is a cop-out, and your reference to "rgp history" is just a diversion.
> Either you have the facts to support your position, or you don't. If the
> former, then provide the facts for the folks who have asked a question that
> indicates they are trying to learn something. If the latter, then simply
> admit it, and quit trying to dress up an opinion and present it as something
> else.
>
> To elaborate, one of the folks who asked about the differences (Chad) is a
> relatively new collector from the New England area; he's been working to bring
> a neglected TZ back into working order. We've been helping him on the Boston
> Pinball Yahoo group, and he's made excellent progress over the past few
> months.
>
> One of my first suggestions to him was to buy a PinLiz proxmity sensor board
> to fix his recurring switch #26 problems; that's what I do for the TZs that I
> restore. I think the Liz's stuff is well-engineered, and I've always had
> positive dealings with Joel.
>
> Now Chad needs a clock board set, and wants to learn WHY he should pay about
> $50 more for one option over another. Customer service is certainly a valid
> point, but can you enumerate any technical reasons that make the Liz's clock
> board set better than Jim (Rottendog) Knight's? I've heard that Jim also goes
> out of his way to support his products, although I've never personally bought
> anything from him.
>
> Tony
>
> In article <dfv74v11q3s@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Fred Kemper"
> <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote:
> > Not a cop-out, it's a matter of history on rgp.
> >
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 3:13:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I find it hard to believe that Fred did an "unbiased A-B comparison" of the
two . . .
"Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
news:1126271325.629052.46560@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Yes *I* have....
>
> Fred
> TX
> CARGPB#8
> ===========================
>
> Joseph A. 'Tony' Dziedzic wrote:
> > Fred, in the interest of fairness, have you (or anyone) actually done a
> > factual comparison between the different board sets that are available?
I
> > know you're a PinLiz cheerleader - and I agree that they make some great
stuff
> > - but an unbiased A-B comparison would be useful. The one-board design
is
> > intriguing since it does eliminate that troublesome interboard
connector.
> >
> > Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
> >
> > In article <dfqtum0slj@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Fred Kemper"
> > <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote:
> > > You can Google almost endlessly on this, but the
> > >end result we be that the Liz boards are the best, and
> > >the tech support that goes with them is unsurpassed.
> > >
> > >These are the only boards I install in any TZ that I
> > >service or repair. My TZ has the protos. :) 
> > >
> > >(And they work very well, too)
> > >
>
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 4:21:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

i've bought Jim Knights board and he has done everything and anything
to help me out. He even checked out my clock and tested it by him for
me to figure out my problem. Top notch service and top notch guy. I
have never delt with PBliz yet. I'm sure I will eventually.
September 11, 2005 5:25:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

FWIW I say go with the Pinliz board. It's solid as a rock and the LEDs
are damn cool. Add a Mantis blue clock housing and your good to go!

nomad
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 6:09:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Well two things are at least clear now. Pinliz stands behind it's
products and has great customer service, and people are very
passionate about their choice :-) But it hasn't really helped me
decide if it's worth the price difference for home use since no one
has a direct comparison or problems with the Rottendog. Given my
"newbie" status, I'll probably go with the PinLiz and know I've got
support if something doesn't work right. Thanks for the opinions...

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 02:38:18 GMT, Strohz <strohz@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I want to replace the clock boards in a TZ I recently acquired with
>the LED boards. I noticed you can get a set of "exact" replacement
>boards from Pbliz.com for $120, or an "improved single board" version
>from marcospecialties.com for $79.95. The single board sounds better
>to me (cheaper, less parts), so can anyone comment on the differences
>or why I shouldn't get it instead? Just curious if anyone's gotten
>one or has info. Thanks,
>
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 5:40:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

If Fred said he did, you can believe he did. Fred's a good man. Lloyd

"hey load" <kimbo463@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:7-udneNHrdJHM77eRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> I find it hard to believe that Fred did an "unbiased A-B comparison" of
the
> two . . .
> "Fred Kemper" <pbgarage@davlin.net> wrote in message
> news:1126271325.629052.46560@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Yes *I* have....
> >
> > Fred
> > TX
> > CARGPB#8
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 7:16:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

"Strohz" <strohz@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2247i195cfliddtcnc3tm6ergk0pqqrjbt@4ax.com...
> Well two things are at least clear now. Pinliz stands behind it's
> products and has great customer service, and people are very
> passionate about their choice :-) But it hasn't really helped me
> decide if it's worth the price difference for home use since no one
> has a direct comparison or problems with the Rottendog. Given my
> "newbie" status, I'll probably go with the PinLiz and know I've got
> support if something doesn't work right. Thanks for the opinions...

If you are pinball-savvy enough to know that you REALLY need to replace your
clock board, then you are not a newbie, IMHO. After all, we are not talking
about rocket science here, it's either going to work or not. If you are
having other issues with the clock, then maybe it's worth the extra $50 to
get the "free" support from pbliz. Good luck anyways.
!