Retail Prices - are you sitting down?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

OK, i was surfing for some pins at retail shops and found some decent
prices but most were pretty high as i expected, but this place's prices
were CRAZY! No wonder nobody can afford pins anymore. Now if these were
HUO, or restored by TC, Dave S, Chis H, Etc. that's one thing, but i'm
betting these are routed machines that have just been shopped. I was
going to get a nice CV, but i think i'll spend my $3500 on a Rescue
911.

Flash 1999
Joker Poker 2399
Blackout 2399
Mata Hari 2399
Goldwings 2399
Cosmic Gunfight 2499
Road Kings 2499
Firepower 2699
Jungle Lord 2699
Strange Science 2699
Phantom Of The Opera 2699
Millionaire 2799
Vacation America (New) 2999
Nitro Ground Shaker 2999
Eight Ball 2999
Fireball Classic 2999
Eight Ball Deluxe 3299
Black Knight 2000 3499
The Machine Bride Of Pinbot 3499
Rescue 911 3499
Jurassic Park 3499
Dracula 3499
Fishtales 3799
Space Jam 3799
World Cup Soccer 3799
Harley Davidson 3999
Who Dunnit 3999
No Fear 3999
Creature From The Black Lagoon 3999
Indianapolis 500 4499
Star Trek Next Generation 4999
Twilight Zone 4999
Scared Stiff 4999
Corvette 4999
Tales Of The Arabian Nights 4999
Addams Family 5299
Indiana Jones 5499
Star Wars Episode 1 5499
Simpson's Pinball Party (New) 4999*
Ripley's Believe It Or No (New) 4999*

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

>OK, i was surfing for some pins at retail shops

Welcome to the world of sales shops that have overhead.

Kirb

 

[Nomad]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

That some hella overhead to warrant a Flash for 2K! But I'm now glad to
know that my DP BOP is probably worth $4499 according to the above
"price guide" amounts!

 

[Troy]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I take it you wont be buying a pin from them anytime soon, lol.
The world of retail,


Troy,


"PinballShark" <sullyshark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126287154.546335.190680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> OK, i was surfing for some pins at retail shops and found some decent
> prices but most were pretty high as i expected, but this place's prices
> were CRAZY! No wonder nobody can afford pins anymore. Now if these were
> HUO, or restored by TC, Dave S, Chis H, Etc. that's one thing, but i'm
> betting these are routed machines that have just been shopped. I was
> going to get a nice CV, but i think i'll spend my $3500 on a Rescue
> 911.
>
> Flash 1999
> Joker Poker 2399
> Blackout 2399
> Mata Hari 2399
> Goldwings 2399
> Cosmic Gunfight 2499
> Road Kings 2499
> Firepower 2699
> Jungle Lord 2699
> Strange Science 2699
> Phantom Of The Opera 2699
> Millionaire 2799
> Vacation America (New) 2999
> Nitro Ground Shaker 2999
> Eight Ball 2999
> Fireball Classic 2999
> Eight Ball Deluxe 3299
> Black Knight 2000 3499
> The Machine Bride Of Pinbot 3499
> Rescue 911 3499
> Jurassic Park 3499
> Dracula 3499
> Fishtales 3799
> Space Jam 3799
> World Cup Soccer 3799
> Harley Davidson 3999
> Who Dunnit 3999
> No Fear 3999
> Creature From The Black Lagoon 3999
> Indianapolis 500 4499
> Star Trek Next Generation 4999
> Twilight Zone 4999
> Scared Stiff 4999
> Corvette 4999
> Tales Of The Arabian Nights 4999
> Addams Family 5299
> Indiana Jones 5499
> Star Wars Episode 1 5499
> Simpson's Pinball Party (New) 4999*
> Ripley's Believe It Or No (New) 4999*
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Don't spend the $3499. for the Rescue 911. I have a Recue 911 for
$1000. Probably in the same condition.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Wow! I am surprised at the response to this post...a collective "Oh,
well that's retail"??? Give me a break! Folks that is guaging and
ripping off the uneducated.

Yes, I understand folks have to make a buck. In fact, I own a business
and understand that very well, but there is "fair business practice"
and "fair mark up". $4K for a No Fear??? Road Kings for $2,500??? I
sold my Road Kings (awesome condition, completely shopped) for $800 CDN
(at the time that was about $550 USD) and retail for that should be
about $1,000 USD at the upper end.

On the plus side, Shark, the business won't last! I will put money on
that. We have one local reseller that charges insane prices and
basically they don't get repeat business. I have found a good number of
people buy a pin THEN look at eBay to do a comparison (I know cart
before the horse but there you are) AND then realize they were screwed.
Then they are peeved: no more business for the rip off artist AND they
tell at least 8 friends about it.

BTW, getting the customer to buy once is expensive. Good business comes
from repeat sales, so those businesses without repeat sales will loose
in the long run.

Duane

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Why? I find it very simple to ignore, as I'm
not or ever going to be their customer.

Pinball is either a device for making money,
or an expensive "plaything" for others. It is
not required for living.

I don't see a problem, so bully for them. Only
thing it REALLY affects is the price we may have
to pay for our own games down the line. That is
to say, there won't be many 'steals' left in time.

Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
================================

greata...@hotmail.com wrote:

> Wow! I am surprised at the response to this post...a collective "Oh,
> well that's retail"??? Give me a break! Folks that is guaging and
> ripping off the uneducated.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

It may be area dependant. For example, I am in Detroit. A high
blue collar town, and everyone is running scared for their jobs
going to china or mexico. i had four Addams family pins for sale.
not perfect examples, but all plug and play. not perfect cosmetically
mind you, but working and very good players. if you wanted to
spend a bit of time, they would all clean up really nice. I sold
them all in the $2100 to $2400 range. I could not get any more
either. I tried ebay, mr.pinball, etc and that was the best i
could do. now if i was in california, perhaps i could have done
a lot better.

PinballShark wrote:
> OK, i was surfing for some pins at retail shops and found some decent
> prices but most were pretty high as i expected, but this place's prices
> were CRAZY! No wonder nobody can afford pins anymore. Now if these were
> HUO, or restored by TC, Dave S, Chis H, Etc. that's one thing, but i'm
> betting these are routed machines that have just been shopped. I was
> going to get a nice CV, but i think i'll spend my $3500 on a Rescue
> 911.
>
> Flash 1999
> Joker Poker 2399
> Blackout 2399
> Mata Hari 2399
> Goldwings 2399
> Cosmic Gunfight 2499
> Road Kings 2499
> Firepower 2699
> Jungle Lord 2699
> Strange Science 2699
> Phantom Of The Opera 2699
> Millionaire 2799
> Vacation America (New) 2999
> Nitro Ground Shaker 2999
> Eight Ball 2999
> Fireball Classic 2999
> Eight Ball Deluxe 3299
> Black Knight 2000 3499
> The Machine Bride Of Pinbot 3499
> Rescue 911 3499
> Jurassic Park 3499
> Dracula 3499
> Fishtales 3799
> Space Jam 3799
> World Cup Soccer 3799
> Harley Davidson 3999
> Who Dunnit 3999
> No Fear 3999
> Creature From The Black Lagoon 3999
> Indianapolis 500 4499
> Star Trek Next Generation 4999
> Twilight Zone 4999
> Scared Stiff 4999
> Corvette 4999
> Tales Of The Arabian Nights 4999
> Addams Family 5299
> Indiana Jones 5499
> Star Wars Episode 1 5499
> Simpson's Pinball Party (New) 4999*
> Ripley's Believe It Or No (New) 4999*

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Example: I was looking for a GPS unit and decided on a Loerance iWAY
500C.
Crutchfield was $799, some other places were even higher at even nearly

$1,000. I picked mine up at Shipdog.com for $620 shipped!

Sure, you can do that, but is Shipdog an authorized Lowrance dealer?
Will they honor their warranty if it is bought from an unauthorized
dealer? Can you return it in up to 30 days with the enclosed ARS tag
like from Crutchfield, no questions asked?
These things don't apply to pins, (except new Stern's) but one part
does-For the uninitiated who buys a pin, they want to know that if it
breaks down in the first month, or maybe even after that, they can call
someone to come out and fix it, probably for free or a nominal fee.
THATS what that money is paying for, in addition to shop overhead.
Customer service. Not applicable to those of us who can lift up a
playfield or change a fuse.
But I still agree that they are gouging people on those prices.
Although I wouldn't want to take my hourly rate from work and apply it
to how many hours I spend on my machines, because I would have to
charge that kind of dough to recoup my money as well. But I do it as a
labor of love, not money, like everyone here. I bet most of those guys
were operators who got big enough to have shops, and now if they want
to stay in business with pins, that's what they have to charge. A sad
fact of life.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

deafdumb&blindboy wrote:
> But I still agree that they are gouging people on those prices.

You say that, and then....

> Although I wouldn't want to take my hourly rate from work and apply it
> to how many hours I spend on my machines, because I would have to
> charge that kind of dough to recoup my money as well. But I do it as a
> labor of love, not money, like everyone here. I bet most of those guys
> were operators who got big enough to have shops, and now if they want
> to stay in business with pins, that's what they have to charge. A sad
> fact of life.

How can it be price gouging if that is what they have to charge? They
have a store front, money invested in getting the pin up to shape
(hopfully), and all the other factors that make them charge what they
do.

You can't have it both ways. research is power....and saves you money.

Kirb

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

So if you don't like his prices open up a retail store nearby and charge
less and try to put him out of business . If the prices are high and nobody
buys them that's his problem .
Ron

"PinballShark" <sullyshark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126287154.546335.190680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> OK, i was surfing for some pins at retail shops and found some decent
> prices but most were pretty high as i expected, but this place's prices
> were CRAZY! No wonder nobody can afford pins anymore. Now if these were
> HUO, or restored by TC, Dave S, Chis H, Etc. that's one thing, but i'm
> betting these are routed machines that have just been shopped. I was
> going to get a nice CV, but i think i'll spend my $3500 on a Rescue
> 911.
>
> Flash 1999
> Joker Poker 2399
> Blackout 2399
> Mata Hari 2399
> Goldwings 2399
> Cosmic Gunfight 2499
> Road Kings 2499
> Firepower 2699
> Jungle Lord 2699
> Strange Science 2699
> Phantom Of The Opera 2699
> Millionaire 2799
> Vacation America (New) 2999
> Nitro Ground Shaker 2999
> Eight Ball 2999
> Fireball Classic 2999
> Eight Ball Deluxe 3299
> Black Knight 2000 3499
> The Machine Bride Of Pinbot 3499
> Rescue 911 3499
> Jurassic Park 3499
> Dracula 3499
> Fishtales 3799
> Space Jam 3799
> World Cup Soccer 3799
> Harley Davidson 3999
> Who Dunnit 3999
> No Fear 3999
> Creature From The Black Lagoon 3999
> Indianapolis 500 4499
> Star Trek Next Generation 4999
> Twilight Zone 4999
> Scared Stiff 4999
> Corvette 4999
> Tales Of The Arabian Nights 4999
> Addams Family 5299
> Indiana Jones 5499
> Star Wars Episode 1 5499
> Simpson's Pinball Party (New) 4999*
> Ripley's Believe It Or No (New) 4999*
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

If price too high try the gas station on next block

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Maybe not here in California. Things seem real slow for the over $2K
group. $500 to $800 moves decently. $850 to $1500 is somewhat slow.

There are a lot of project game seekers out here. The drawback is they
want the games for next to nothing, then they want you to furnish
anything the game needs, and on the other side the sellers want roughly
25% less than shop out value. I have a suspicion that is one reason
games are being parted out and put on Ebay. One operator here has
about five project games in his warehouse he won't sell because he is
robbing them for parts and boards. These are pretty nice titles too.
He told me in 10 years I can have what's left. (I may be dead by then).

It's possible that down in L.A. Herb @ Fabulous Fantasies may do well,
as he is in a pretty affluent area. I am in a pretty affluent area
also, Carmel, Monterey, and Pebble Beach, but this is not pinball
territory. So it really doesn't mean a whole lot. I am not aware of
much else.

Craigslist, SF Bay, has the same games all the time. There has been a
Starship Troopers on there seems like forever. I also noticed that if
it's $2K or more it will probably still be on the list next week. Just
a side note there has been a Bally Black Pyramid on there for months,
and the price has gone down from $500 to $300. Yeah, it's a Black
Pyramid, but it goes to show that now it's at board value.

The distributors are asking some pretty stiff prices for what little
they have available.

I have gotten a lot of phone calls about games. What amazes me is
these callers, "all know", I can sell them an Addams Family for $600.
An EATPM for $400. I just tell them to find me one too!

How about some other areas?

Mario
Pinthetic

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

The people that buy those games are the "rest" of the pinball world that
don't read pinball newsgroups. It's now understandable why we make up such
a small % of the pinball world...because we buy more than one game and pay
prices way under those listed.

I imagine 10 years from now those "high" prices may seem reasonable!!! ;-)

--
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI

Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/4hfev
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/39cjo
M B Scoop Repair: http://tinyurl.com/9lfu
--------------------------------------------

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

those prices in pesos?


"PinballShark" <sullyshark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126287154.546335.190680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> OK, i was surfing for some pins at retail shops and found some decent
> prices but most were pretty high as i expected, but this place's prices
> were CRAZY! No wonder nobody can afford pins anymore. Now if these were
> HUO, or restored by TC, Dave S, Chis H, Etc. that's one thing, but i'm
> betting these are routed machines that have just been shopped. I was
> going to get a nice CV, but i think i'll spend my $3500 on a Rescue
> 911.
>
> Flash 1999
> Joker Poker 2399
> Blackout 2399
> Mata Hari 2399
> Goldwings 2399
> Cosmic Gunfight 2499
> Road Kings 2499
> Firepower 2699
> Jungle Lord 2699
> Strange Science 2699
> Phantom Of The Opera 2699
> Millionaire 2799
> Vacation America (New) 2999
> Nitro Ground Shaker 2999
> Eight Ball 2999
> Fireball Classic 2999
> Eight Ball Deluxe 3299
> Black Knight 2000 3499
> The Machine Bride Of Pinbot 3499
> Rescue 911 3499
> Jurassic Park 3499
> Dracula 3499
> Fishtales 3799
> Space Jam 3799
> World Cup Soccer 3799
> Harley Davidson 3999
> Who Dunnit 3999
> No Fear 3999
> Creature From The Black Lagoon 3999
> Indianapolis 500 4499
> Star Trek Next Generation 4999
> Twilight Zone 4999
> Scared Stiff 4999
> Corvette 4999
> Tales Of The Arabian Nights 4999
> Addams Family 5299
> Indiana Jones 5499
> Star Wars Episode 1 5499
> Simpson's Pinball Party (New) 4999*
> Ripley's Believe It Or No (New) 4999*
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

The cheapest pin on the list is a Flash for 2K!!! Your right these are
CRAZY prices.

Rich Wiski

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

OK I may be an idiot, but I have bought several Pins at above RGP
prices from a local retail establishment here in Northern Virginia. I
understand costs related to their storefront which are pretty expensive
in this area.

I have made a consicous effort to support them for several reasons:

1. They have approx 10 Pins (and a bunch of vids) on free play at all
times.
a. I was out of pinball for most of the 90's (small children) and
missed many of the great games in their prime. I have gotten a chance
to try out almost all of the great titles from that era over the past
few years as they rotate through the store. They are also typically in
reasonably good working condition which makes the experience much more
enjoyable.

b. They get all of the new games from Stern within weeks of their
release and have them available for play. I've been able to play these
games without having to hunt around for them and again they are
working.

2. There are very few places in my area that have pins. The only
pins are typically badly maintained, dirty (both internally and
externally), and in smokey/noisy establishments (bars/bowling alleys).
Playing the pins in a relatively nice environment where you can really
check out a game is a major advantage.

3. I'm happy that they are playing a role in keeping pinball alive in
this area. They rent their place for parties including birthday
parties and lots of area children including mine have attended the
parties. Although most are looking primarily for the videos, they all
get exposed to pinball.

4. It's nice to have a place to talk pinball and meet other pinheads
on a regular basis in a reasonable environment.

Note: I've mainly bought new pins from them because it seems easier to
negotiate price because they can typically restock them (although
that's not as easy as it seems for a small outfit) and they don't have
to worry about warranty costs as much

Bill

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I want to jump in here as a brand new pin owner.....bought a TAF a
month ago for $3700. I looked at 3 other machines in 3 other cities.
all were at that price or within $100. And the machine wasn't perfect
either. My previous experience with pins was putting my quarters in
and popping the flippers. I needed a 90 day parts/labor warranty
until I figured out what I was doing, so I bought it local.

After a couple of weeks of replacing bulbs, tracking down a blown
fuse, replacing the flipper assemblies(they were working, but a little
sloppy). I got comfortable with reading the manual and surveying
the underside. So, I ventured out about 400 miles away to pick up
and very near perfect(in my opinion) TZ for $3050. Everything on
this pin works perfectly and the pf is gorgeous....even the clock
works! But I am more comfortable now with fixing something that
breaks, so this time, I looked for the best price I could find, and
wasn't afraid to buy far away.

My point is that us folks new to pins sometimes feel we have no
choice other than to buy local/retail and pay the price in order to
get into the hobby....

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

> Sure, you can do that, but is Shipdog an authorized Lowrance dealer?
> Will they honor their warranty if it is bought from an unauthorized
> dealer? Can you return it in up to 30 days with the enclosed ARS tag
> like from Crutchfield, no questions asked?

They are a reseller. Any warranties, returns, exchanges for defective
merchandise is done through Lowrance. If the unit is damaged in transit
then shipdog will cover it.

I was missing a RAM base in my package and Lowrance shipped it to me for
free.

I saved $180...so far Lowrance has handled all questions. So do I need to
buy it from an "authorized" Lowrance dealer, pay the additional $180 to
Crutchfield so they can call Lowrance and take care of things??? Once the
warranty is up then you are on your own no matter who you bought it from.

--
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI

Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/4hfev
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/39cjo
M B Scoop Repair: http://tinyurl.com/9lfu
--------------------------------------------

 

[Scott]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

JJ usually the warranty only lasts 30days. Finding a repair man is not
super difficult is your willing to pay.

I understand if your buying the pin at a 500 or less mark up from what
the price/compared to condition. But you are usually looking at a
$2000+ markup. I rather take the risk and be willing to pay to get it
fixed.

I believe I have spent over $6000 in pins and parts in the last year
alone; unfortunately only $10 was spent with Bill here in Waterford
and $15 at Prestige in Waterford.

Not that I dont like Bill, and I do greatfully respect Clay, Trinity
and the guys at Prestige or what ever their retail shop is called.

How can I support them??? They leave me no option, I have to work for
my buck like everyone else. I understand and would pay for a
reasonable markup but I wont grab my ankles and take one for the team.

Scott
Detroit

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

YOU WOULD BE AMAZED how many he will sell.


Not the place for you nor I but the rich folks like pinball too!!
To that customer a popye is worth more than a medmadnes if they like
poppeye more than knights... Its definately a different market and quite
interesting and profitable (at times) to boot.

Chet





"PinballShark" <sullyshark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126287154.546335.190680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> OK, i was surfing for some pins at retail shops and found some decent
> prices but most were pretty high as i expected, but this place's prices
> were CRAZY! No wonder nobody can afford pins anymore. Now if these were
> HUO, or restored by TC, Dave S, Chis H, Etc. that's one thing, but i'm
> betting these are routed machines that have just been shopped. I was
> going to get a nice CV, but i think i'll spend my $3500 on a Rescue
> 911.
>
> Flash 1999
> Joker Poker 2399
> Blackout 2399
> Mata Hari 2399
> Goldwings 2399
> Cosmic Gunfight 2499
> Road Kings 2499
> Firepower 2699
> Jungle Lord 2699
> Strange Science 2699
> Phantom Of The Opera 2699
> Millionaire 2799
> Vacation America (New) 2999
> Nitro Ground Shaker 2999
> Eight Ball 2999
> Fireball Classic 2999
> Eight Ball Deluxe 3299
> Black Knight 2000 3499
> The Machine Bride Of Pinbot 3499
> Rescue 911 3499
> Jurassic Park 3499
> Dracula 3499
> Fishtales 3799
> Space Jam 3799
> World Cup Soccer 3799
> Harley Davidson 3999
> Who Dunnit 3999
> No Fear 3999
> Creature From The Black Lagoon 3999
> Indianapolis 500 4499
> Star Trek Next Generation 4999
> Twilight Zone 4999
> Scared Stiff 4999
> Corvette 4999
> Tales Of The Arabian Nights 4999
> Addams Family 5299
> Indiana Jones 5499
> Star Wars Episode 1 5499
> Simpson's Pinball Party (New) 4999*
> Ripley's Believe It Or No (New) 4999*
>

 

[BillB]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

>
> Anyway, be happy you have a local retail store at all. It probably won't
> last, though.
>
>

that WOULD be a tough business. the vast majority of people that might like
to have such a machine simply have no clue as to keeping it working. look
at how they take care of their cars and houses for godssake.

--
billb

 

[BillB]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

the rich man will buy a new machine cause the new man wants the "best"

--
billb

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Hi Pinbob are you related to Spongebob? FYI the store with these
fantastic - act now and we'll throw in a new box of light bulbs -
prices is nowhere near So. California it's in Lisle, ILLINOIS.

 

[Scott]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I love how some of these retailers hang up/walk away as soon as you
inform them your a collector. They prey on the stupid.

Donnie, there is a reason your not in business anymore; you just dont
get it. ....get your pins out the door, slap a sticker with your name
and number for service on the pin, build up pins in the community and
make a solid name for yourself. $60-90/hour for service work will pay
your bills; people will need them fixed and you can encourage people to
buy off ebay if you absolutely think that they will get ripped off.
Again, its all in the service. You can make a little money on the
sale, but why price them out?

Pinbob, a good businessman does not always maximize his return; a
stupid businessman will.

A case report from Enterprise Rent A Car, the only Rent A Car company
that actually makes a profit and surpassed every major Rent A Car
company in on rent #'s, dollars generated, and PROFIT, and receives the
JD powers award almost annually in overall service. They came from out
of no were and crushed Hertz and Avis and everyone else.
When the first hurricane in Florida hit almost 10 years ago (Hugo) and
people were scrambling afterwards for cars. Allstate came to Andy and
Jack Taylor and asked how much are your rentals going to cost now
because of the hurricane. Andy replied, we will be renting at the
price we were charging 12 months ago and that will be the price today,
tommorow, next week and if I can help it 9 months from now.
Case in point, gouge today, and your customers will be gone tommorow.
A proven bussiness fact.

I agree it is America and you have the power to run your store how ever
you want-- gauge all you want. Mc Donalds is usually always hiring so
you have at least that as a back up plan.

sorry, love talking business-- you got about a thousand dollars + of
free consulting advice

Scott
Detroit