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What brand proms can your burner burn?

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Anonymous
September 10, 2005 9:11:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Hi,

I use a DATA IO29B to program with since it will burn all the early prom
crosses, but as I add to my inventory I would like to know what brand
and size proms your programmers can program, so perhaps I can carry
different brands. The trouble with selling the signectis brands is that
they are so darn expensive since most new programmers only carry the
algorithms for them or the TI parts.

Just let me know and thanks,
Mark Capps
September 10, 2005 9:32:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Mine can burn Triops and Decoderprogs.
"big dog" <catfishh@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:f-GdnYdlKvuU0b7eRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
> Hi,
>
> I use a DATA IO29B to program with since it will burn all the early prom
> crosses, but as I add to my inventory I would like to know what brand and
> size proms your programmers can program, so perhaps I can carry different
> brands. The trouble with selling the signectis brands is that they are so
> darn expensive since most new programmers only carry the algorithms for
> them or the TI parts.
>
> Just let me know and thanks,
> Mark Capps
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 9:46:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Hi,

WTF are you talking about?

Mark Capps

MARK wrote:
> Mine can burn Triops and Decoderprogs.
> "big dog" <catfishh@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:f-GdnYdlKvuU0b7eRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I use a DATA IO29B to program with since it will burn all the early prom
>>crosses, but as I add to my inventory I would like to know what brand and
>>size proms your programmers can program, so perhaps I can carry different
>>brands. The trouble with selling the signectis brands is that they are so
>>darn expensive since most new programmers only carry the algorithms for
>>them or the TI parts.
>>
>>Just let me know and thanks,
>>Mark Capps
>
>
>
Related resources
September 10, 2005 11:12:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Im referring to the actual readiness' of the proms themselves.
"big dog" <catfishh@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:za-dnXTvy5zAyb7eRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
> Hi,
>
> WTF are you talking about?
>
> Mark Capps
>
> MARK wrote:
>> Mine can burn Triops and Decoderprogs.
>> "big dog" <catfishh@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:f-GdnYdlKvuU0b7eRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I use a DATA IO29B to program with since it will burn all the early prom
>>>crosses, but as I add to my inventory I would like to know what brand and
>>>size proms your programmers can program, so perhaps I can carry different
>>>brands. The trouble with selling the signectis brands is that they are
>>>so darn expensive since most new programmers only carry the algorithms
>>>for them or the TI parts.
>>>
>>>Just let me know and thanks,
>>>Mark Capps
>>
>>
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 2:26:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

welll.. see... that was your first mistake.. you actually expected Mark to
MEAN something...

"big dog" <catfishh@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:za-dnXTvy5zAyb7eRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
> Hi,
>
> WTF are you talking about?
>
> Mark Capps
>
> MARK wrote:
>> Mine can burn Triops and Decoderprogs.
>> "big dog" <catfishh@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:f-GdnYdlKvuU0b7eRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I use a DATA IO29B to program with since it will burn all the early prom
>>>crosses, but as I add to my inventory I would like to know what brand and
>>>size proms your programmers can program, so perhaps I can carry different
>>>brands. The trouble with selling the signectis brands is that they are
>>>so darn expensive since most new programmers only carry the algorithms
>>>for them or the TI parts.
>>>
>>>Just let me know and thanks,
>>>Mark Capps
>>
>>
September 11, 2005 2:26:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I did mean it.I guess it's above your realm of EPROM knowledge.Just ask John
Fields PROFESIONAL CIRCUIT DESIGNER.
"Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:z4JUe.3186$sa6.1897@trndny06...
> welll.. see... that was your first mistake.. you actually expected Mark to
> MEAN something...
>
> "big dog" <catfishh@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:za-dnXTvy5zAyb7eRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>> WTF are you talking about?
>>
>> Mark Capps
>>
>> MARK wrote:
>>> Mine can burn Triops and Decoderprogs.
>>> "big dog" <catfishh@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>> news:f-GdnYdlKvuU0b7eRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>I use a DATA IO29B to program with since it will burn all the early prom
>>>>crosses, but as I add to my inventory I would like to know what brand
>>>>and size proms your programmers can program, so perhaps I can carry
>>>>different brands. The trouble with selling the signectis brands is that
>>>>they are so darn expensive since most new programmers only carry the
>>>>algorithms for them or the TI parts.
>>>>
>>>>Just let me know and thanks,
>>>>Mark Capps
>>>
>>>
>
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 3:10:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

The programmer I use can handle any kind of eprom and I can set any
algorithm.
Not only that, I can add eproms and algorithms easy by editting the setup
file wich is plain text.
This programmer is an Eprop+ from taskit Rechnertechnik Berlin GmbH
Not the cheapest but a real sturdy one that also programs 16bit eproms and
flash, etc

When it comes to reading or burning real old stuff I stil lhave my good 'ol
commodore 64 handily availably with a Rex Datentechnik programmer

--
Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards
Hans Balk
The Shoot 'M Again team
www.flipperwinkel.NL
www.shootmagain.nl
"big dog" <catfishh@bellsouth.net> schreef in bericht
news:f-GdnYdlKvuU0b7eRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
> Hi,
>
> I use a DATA IO29B to program with since it will burn all the early prom
> crosses, but as I add to my inventory I would like to know what brand
> and size proms your programmers can program, so perhaps I can carry
> different brands. The trouble with selling the signectis brands is that
> they are so darn expensive since most new programmers only carry the
> algorithms for them or the TI parts.
>
> Just let me know and thanks,
> Mark Capps
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 3:11:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On 2005-09-10 17:11:26 -0700, big dog <catfishh@bellsouth.net> said:

> Hi,
>
> I use a DATA IO29B to program with since it will burn all the early
> prom crosses, but as I add to my inventory I would like to know what
> brand and size proms your programmers can program, so perhaps I can
> carry different brands. The trouble with selling the signectis brands
> is that they are so darn expensive since most new programmers only
> carry the algorithms for them or the TI parts.
>
> Just let me know and thanks,
> Mark Capps

I use three programmers - a Xeltek Super Pro, an Andromeda burner, and
the Data I/O 29B with a Unipak.

This combo handles all my pinball and video game programming needs.

John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech enquires to the newsgroup) John's
Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they
just flip out."
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 10:08:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

My handy-dandy PB10 card has so far done everything I've asked it to
do. But I'm sure the oldest EPROMS probably wouldn't work with it..
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 12:10:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I use a Needhams EMP-20 for any post-1985 stuff.
(I can do all the earlier Eproms with that too,
but it's slower than my other burner for any 50ms algorithm )
I also use this one for PICs, PAL/GAL, & CPUs.

I use a Modular Circuit Technology MOD-EMUP ( same as Hi-Lo/Sunshine ),
for early Eproms (2716-2764), and many Bipolar Proms because it's very
fast. ( about 15sec for a 2732 vs. 3+ minutes for the EMP-20 )

I use the Data I/0 29B (with Unipak 2B) for any tri-voltages Eproms
(TMS-2708/2716), and any "higher" votlage-algo Bipolar Proms chips
(...namely the Intersil B-PROMs I got from you Mark ! ;-)
[The 29B is the "slowest" of my burners, so I only use it for stuff
the other two can't do]

I also have adapters for PLCC, SOIC and TSOP packages.

With that line-up, I can burn about 6000 device types.
(...I really need to update my website on this issue...)

That has allowed me to burn pretty much any device I've ever
been asked to do (Pins, Vids, XBoX, Car EFIs, Satellites, etc...)
with the notable exception of 27c322 [32M] Eproms.

Cheers,
Steph
www.HobbyRoms.com

======



big dog wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I use a DATA IO29B to program with since it will burn all the early prom
> crosses, but as I add to my inventory I would like to know what brand
> and size proms your programmers can program, so perhaps I can carry
> different brands. The trouble with selling the signectis brands is that
> they are so darn expensive since most new programmers only carry the
> algorithms for them or the TI parts.
>
> Just let me know and thanks,
> Mark Capps
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 9:49:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Where do you get the Eproms at again? And I imagine you keep quite a
stock on hand. Thing is, I'm sure that alot of different games use
alot of different Roms. Do you know of any that are really widely
used that are good to keep on hand in particular? Are there like 12
different kinds that you keep on hand or is the number higher?
I have the DataIO29B w/Unipack but have not used it. I do however
have a couple of Pac Man color Proms that probably (4A and 7F I
believe) need replaced. Never burnt my own so it'd be great to find
someone that knows something about it. In my area nobody knows
anything about electronics and certainly not rom burning.
I'm not even sure that Atari used the same roms in everything they
produced.
It'd sure be nice if there were a diagram that had like:
Midway=1892304 roms
Atari= 1355900 roms
Taito=38599595 roms
And then you go to Digikey or some one stop shop to order them.

One could probably use the existing rom unless it's bad altogether to
reprogram it, but I wouldn't know if that's a bad or good idea to wipe
out a Rom which may be good anyhow.
Be nice to learn more about it but I guess you have to have some roms
on hand to practice with first.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 08:10:59 -0400, "HobbyRoms.Com"
<info@REMOVESPAMhobbyroms.com> wrote:

>
>I use a Needhams EMP-20 for any post-1985 stuff.
>(I can do all the earlier Eproms with that too,
>but it's slower than my other burner for any 50ms algorithm )
>I also use this one for PICs, PAL/GAL, & CPUs.
>
>I use a Modular Circuit Technology MOD-EMUP ( same as Hi-Lo/Sunshine ),
>for early Eproms (2716-2764), and many Bipolar Proms because it's very
>fast. ( about 15sec for a 2732 vs. 3+ minutes for the EMP-20 )
>
>I use the Data I/0 29B (with Unipak 2B) for any tri-voltages Eproms
>(TMS-2708/2716), and any "higher" votlage-algo Bipolar Proms chips
>(...namely the Intersil B-PROMs I got from you Mark ! ;-)
>[The 29B is the "slowest" of my burners, so I only use it for stuff
>the other two can't do]
>
>I also have adapters for PLCC, SOIC and TSOP packages.
>
>With that line-up, I can burn about 6000 device types.
>(...I really need to update my website on this issue...)
>
>That has allowed me to burn pretty much any device I've ever
>been asked to do (Pins, Vids, XBoX, Car EFIs, Satellites, etc...)
>with the notable exception of 27c322 [32M] Eproms.
>
>Cheers,
>Steph
>www.HobbyRoms.com
>
>======
>
>
>
>big dog wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I use a DATA IO29B to program with since it will burn all the early prom
>> crosses, but as I add to my inventory I would like to know what brand
>> and size proms your programmers can program, so perhaps I can carry
>> different brands. The trouble with selling the signectis brands is that
>> they are so darn expensive since most new programmers only carry the
>> algorithms for them or the TI parts.
>>
>> Just let me know and thanks,
>> Mark Capps
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 9:49:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Zinfer wrote:
> Where do you get the Eproms at again?

Sometimes on eBay, sometimes directly via contacts.

It helps to be able to buy in bulk.

When I started a few year back, I was only buying 10-20 Eproms at once.
Now it's 100-200 at a time. Obviously price per units drops with qty.

> I imagine you keep quite a stock on hand.
> Thing is, I'm sure that alot of different games use
> alot of different Roms. Do you know of any that are really widely
> used that are good to keep on hand in particular?

I have about 20 different Eproms on hand,
plus about 10-15 other chip types ( Proms, CPU, Memory, etc...).
In total I now have about 3000 Eproms/Proms/CPUs on hand.

So the really custom stuff, I can usually find something
at Jameco, Mouser or DigiKey, although that gets expensive...

The easy thing about eproms it that "most" games from the same era use
the same type of chips. Pre-80's game used 2716, early 80's (Pac for
instance) used 2532 or 2732. The newer the game, the bigger the Eprom
size. Newer [90's] games often use 16M (27c160) chips.
Most DMD pinballs use 4M (27c040) or even 8M chips (27c080).

So depending on which type of game you collect,
you can limit yourself to those types of Eproms.


> It'd sure be nice if there were a diagram that had like:
> Midway=1892304 roms
> Atari= 1355900 roms
> Taito=38599595 roms


Actually, early games are easier because there really weren't that many
types of chip available. The real trick if finding the "correct" Rom
image to burn. Many games have bootlegs, copies, or upgrades, not to
mention the numerous hacks that have evolved along the way.

I'd say the 80% of my time is spent doing research for the right image,
and the actual burning is pretty quick.

Later games are a little more difficults because of the proliferation
of Eproms types ( 8 bit, 16 bits, masked, etc... ).

There is no "bible" of which Eprom to use of which game,
(...that I know of...) but that would certainly be something
worthy of starting. (...I'll add that to my pile of projects !) ;-)


> One could probably use the existing rom unless it's bad altogether to
> reprogram it, but I wouldn't know if that's a bad or good idea to wipe
> out a Rom which may be good anyhow.

I always make backups of any chip I'm trying to upgrade/fix
before erasing it.

Erasing is usually pretty easy and safe.
(...but you'll need a special UV light to erase the Eproms )

You'll know pretty quickly if an Eprom is bad
because it will not be able to fully erase
or it will not program correctly.

I usually burn a chip on one programmer and then
re-read it on another burner to make sure the Checksums match.
(..I do this in the almost impossible case where
a burner programs badly and then reads incorrectly to
give a "correct" checksum )

Only very, very rarely will an Eprom erase and re-proram properly
only to "lose" it's programming later on.


> Be nice to learn more about it but I guess you have to have some roms
> on hand to practice with first.
>

That helps ... ;-)

Cheers,
Steph
www.HobbyRoms.com
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 10:12:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

>
> You got me so juiced on it that I once again fired up the DataIO29b
> and tried to establish a remote connection from a host toshiba tecra
> laptop. Worked on it for a little over an hour trying to establish a
> $&^#( connection.


Might sound like an obvious comment,
but your need to hit <Start> TWICE to get into remote mode.

<Select> <F> <1> <Start> <Start>

Cheers,
Steph
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 10:14:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Hi,

I was mainly talking about proms not eproms, most burners can do 64's
and up on eproms. I mean stuff like N82s123, N82s129, N82s141 etc.

Mark Capps

Shoot 'M Again wrote:

> The programmer I use can handle any kind of eprom and I can set any
> algorithm.
> Not only that, I can add eproms and algorithms easy by editting the setup
> file wich is plain text.
> This programmer is an Eprop+ from taskit Rechnertechnik Berlin GmbH
> Not the cheapest but a real sturdy one that also programs 16bit eproms and
> flash, etc
>
> When it comes to reading or burning real old stuff I stil lhave my good 'ol
> commodore 64 handily availably with a Rex Datentechnik programmer
>
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 12:16:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I have a data IO also (although it's decided to stop talking to the PC,
but thats another problem), but I also have a Xeltek Superpro 3L - that
does bi-polars as well, but only the 82s and 74s varieties, I know when
I tried one of the equivalents on it, it couldn't sucessfully program
them. (which is why I got the data io ...)

> Hi,
>
> I use a DATA IO29B to program with since it will burn all the early prom
> crosses, but as I add to my inventory I would like to know what brand
> and size proms your programmers can program, so perhaps I can carry
> different brands. The trouble with selling the signectis brands is that
> they are so darn expensive since most new programmers only carry the
> algorithms for them or the TI parts.
>
> Just let me know and thanks,
> Mark Capps
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 5:54:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Everything ever made. Seriously. Our old 29B/Unipak2 is up for sale
since we've now got something better. Brand name of the PROM is
not any kind of issue to us - just cost.

Alex
----
ayeckley@elektronforge.com
www.elektronforge.com
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 5:54:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting,rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace,rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Hi,

Most of the subs for the earlier proms are just about gone, I have
stockpiled as many as I could. I tried to get the cheaper ones as the
price of the ones made today is absurd.

Mark Capps

Alex Yeckley wrote:

> Everything ever made. Seriously. Our old 29B/Unipak2 is up for sale
> since we've now got something better. Brand name of the PROM is
> not any kind of issue to us - just cost.
>
> Alex
> ----
> ayeckley@elektronforge.com
> www.elektronforge.com
>
>
!