120Hz 3D or IPS PC Gaming and Mac Use

[smush]

Hi
Have a 2009 MacBook Pro (so no thunderbolt) and a decent gaming PC (i7 930 2.8GHz, 6GB DDR3, HD Radeon 5870) and thinking of hooking them up to a single monitor but don't know whether to get a 27" 120Hz 3D TN or a 27" IPS. I mainly play FPS games and try to use the Mac when not gaming. I know the Mac would benefit more from IPS but not sure about the gaming on IPS monitors. Does anyone have any opinions/recommendations on this?

Thanks

 

[MagicPants]

I consider 3d a gimmick that's fun to try from time to time, but not really desirable for long play sessions (mostly because it causes eye strain). IPS, on the other hand reduces eye strain (imho).

The only FPS I'd want 3d for is something Left 4 Dead, where it's atmospheric, non-competitive, and each session is short.

The thing is there aren't any 27" IPS monitors that are great for twitch gaming. In order for that to happen they need a response time of 7 or below and input lag of 16 or below.

 

[ssddx]

3d definitely is a gimmick and as stated prior will definitely screw with your eyes. the 3d effect isnt even realistic. to me it looks like cardboard cutouts sliding over one another.

as far as image quality goes....the only thing tn offers is ultrafast response times (not required) and 120hz which some people think is smoother (i think 60hz is plenty smooth myself) and for 3d effect (a gimmick). ips panels (except e-ips) offer much better color accuracy as well as (including e-ips) a very wide viewing angle. tn panels tend to color shift or grey out when viewed at a slight angle.

as far as twitch gaming goes... i had a viewsonic vp201b 20.1 that had a maximum response time of 16ms (which is slow nowdays) and i could twitch-game perfectly fine. for an example...consider unreal tournament with 20 bots, godlike skill and +50% gameplay. i was able to keep up and remain in the top 3-4 slots while practicing my reaction speed.

i currently use a 40" sony bravia lcdtv (should be an ips panel) and it also handles very well. i'm not big into fps games much anymore but the few i have played work well.

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recommendation?

ips over tn unless 3d/120hz is "everything" to you.

 

[smush]

I consider 3d a gimmick that's fun to try from time to time, but not really desirable for long play sessions (mostly because it causes eye strain). IPS, on the other hand reduces eye strain (imho).

The only FPS I'd want 3d for is something Left 4 Dead, where it's atmospheric, non-competitive, and each session is short.

The thing is there aren't any 27" IPS monitors that are great for twitch gaming. In order for that to happen they need a response time of 7 or below and input lag of 16 or below.

I thought myself that 3D was a gimmick and that long periods of play in 3D would give headaches but it was the Batman Arkham City that made me reconsider as the game is supposed to have 3D support but I can turn it on add off right? Besides the 3D though there's the 120Hz which would look smooth I think. Generally games look better on TN panels right?

...as far as twitch gaming goes... i had a viewsonic vp201b 20.1 that had a maximum response time of 16ms (which is slow nowdays) and i could twitch-game perfectly fine. for an example...consider unreal tournament with 20 bots, godlike skill and +50% gameplay. i was able to keep up and remain in the top 3-4 slots while practicing my reaction speed.

That might be just because you have good reaction times as it is I find every ms I can shave off is of great help

 

[MagicPants]

FYI what response time really does is determine the amount of motion blur in an image. Try grabbing this window with your mouse and slide it around, then try reading the text on it as you do so. The faster the response time, the easier it will be to read the text.

For gaming, this is helpful if you are trying to see small objects move across the screen (like missiles). It's not something we normally look for, but it would drive a pro gamer nuts.

Low input lag is generally more helpful, but it's not just your monitor that determines this. (ditching the wireless mouse can help)

 

[MagicPants]

Imho games do not look better on TN, people are just stressing out about it helping their frag rate.

With any TN panel over 20" or so you're going to start see color shifting at the sides of the screen. In 80% of use cases IPS will look better.

ssddx, are you sure the Bravia uses an IPS panel? I would have thought it'd be PVA

 

[smush]

Do you know where I can find input times for monitors? as they only really state response times on product pages. Anyway, response time I thought was about refresh rate and surely that matters when playing a fast paced shooter?
Also, I don't use a wireless mouse or keyboard for that very reason.
How would OS X look on a 120Hz 3D monitor? would it work with the screen?

 

[MagicPants]

check out http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/ they do great comparison tests. Companies can't really test response time themselves because it's too easy to cheat.

Review sites always test average relative input lag against a crt. A Crt's average input lag is governed by a very predictable formula:

(1 sec / refresh rate) / 2
or
0.5 sec / refresh rate

It's divided by two because you don't know when you catch it in it's vertical retrace cycle, so each individual reading varies from 0 to (1/refresh rate).

A company can cheat by cherry picking test results to always test their panel against a crt's maximum lag , and they could set it's refresh rate to something stupid like 50.

So you need to use independent review sites.

Anyway the bottom line is to always add about 8ms to the results of any review you see online, because they assume a crt has input lag of 0 which isn't true.

TFTCentral, for example, reports that the dell u2312 has input lag of less than 1ms, but it's really between 8ms and 9ms.

 

[ssddx]

i agree that sony is listed as using pva panels but i remember looking into it in the past and after quite a bit of searching i found a source that listed a whole bunch of technical details and the panel type was said to be s-ips on that particular model.

this isnt a website i feel confident on but it and a few other sources do state that sony has used s-ips panels in some tv models. i'm not completely sure on the model either but KDL-40BX420 looks similar. it was on the higher end of the scale back when i bought it though (about $2000msrp 3 years ago). too bad i cannot locate the original site i found 3 years ago..


http://www.lcd-tv-reviews.org.uk/sony/sony-bravia-kdl-40w5500-lcd-television/

i'm not a great source of knowledge on this but i've heard that some of the newer lctv panel types compare very well with s-ips.

--

i agree that reaction times are very important in fps however what i was trying to say is that i never once saw any blur, delay, ghosting or any such issues. the panel (vp201b) was listed as having a 16ms response time but most likely this was either the maximum or an overestimate on the manufacturers part.

what i was attempting to let you know was that a slightly higher listed response time is not as (if at all) noticible compared to the very noticible (especially on large panels) color shift of tn panels. also realize that as stated prior you cannot really believe response time numbers you see. its a hard call which is why i always see the screens in person before i buy.

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the smaller the screen and the higher the resolution the sharper the images will be.

at 27" and staying with 1920x1080 text may start to get a little harder to read than it should resulting in you making fonts bigger or zooming everything +5% or so.

as i stated before i use a 40" and i make it work so if i can then a 27" would work fine provided you know what to expect.

 

[smush]

So I take it a 27" with higher resolution than 1920x1080 will make text same/easier to read than a 24"? as I have a 37" Panasonic LCD TV that I have connected to a media PC (Win7) and sitting at distance I have to zoom in to see any text but that's because I'm not sat close to it. Colour shifting isn't an issue for me as I will be sat infront of it. Unfortunately living in the UK it is not possible to go to a store and test a range of monitors out as the likes of PC World only really sell TN Panels and like 1 3D and a couple IPS panel monitors

Would my ATI Radeon HD 5780 support high frame rates for 3D monitors on graphically demanding games?

Would I be better with a Nvidia card for 3D as I know they have their own drivers whereas ATI rely on 3rd parties?

can you get 120Hz with the 3D mode switched off or does it revert to 60Hz?

What is currently the best 120Hz 27" monitor with lowest input lag?

What is currently the best IPS monitor with lowest lag?

 

[MagicPants]

One more point of information. You will not find a 3d monitor with a higher resolution than 1920x1080. There is currently no interface capable of transmitting the amount of data you'd need for that (DVI, HDMI, Display Port, etc...)

Also 120hz monitors can run that outside of 3d mode.


Here my opinions on the best monitors:

The current best IPS 27" gaming monitor would be the zr2740w (That's why I bought one). The best general use 27" monitor is the u2711.

The game best gaming IPS monitor is the 23" dell u2312hm.

As for 3d 27" monitors I'd either go with Samsung or Asus. I think Samsung works with AMD, while Asus works with Nvidia. If you go the Asus route, wait for the VG278H.