Who needs Tech Support?

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Guys, the on going debate and trolls about Dell's or any other maker's
tech support is superfulous as with any problem I have with a PC,
software etc can in the majority of cases be answered through these
groups. Thanks to people like PC Medic, John Burness, JLP 20, Louie
Lizars amonnst many others will usually solve your problem or point
you in the right direction.

Thanks to all

Gary Travers
28 answers Last reply
More about tech support
  1. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    GaryT wrote:

    > Guys, the on going debate and trolls about Dell's or any other maker's
    > tech support is superfulous as with any problem I have with a PC,
    > software etc can in the majority of cases be answered through these
    > groups. Thanks to people like PC Medic, John Burness, JLP 20, Louie
    > Lizars amonnst many others will usually solve your problem or point
    > you in the right direction.
    >
    > Thanks to all
    >
    > Gary Travers

    Thank you for your kind words, I've come over all blushing!!! :-)

    Incidentally, Gary, may I recommend that you disguise your Email Address
    when using NewsGroups?? Spammers often use automatic trolling software,
    on NGs, with the specific intent of obtaining "live addys" for the
    purpose of sending spam. I'm assuming that you don't want to be
    subjected to hundreds of spams per day!!!

    Best regards,
    John
  2. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    This is something I believe: Telephone support -- from any OEM -- is for the
    clueless user. The rest of us take advantage of the enormous amount of
    information and help available elsewhere.

    You don't have to become an expert in order to use a computer. However,
    computing is intrinsically a high technology experience, and anyone who is
    not prepared to learn how to use their computer would be better off with a
    cell phone and Nintendo.

    Rocky

    "GaryT" <GaryT@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
    news:8tkne0le03g22irutk8iseu4nqe6ie3siq@4ax.com...
    > Guys, the on going debate and trolls about Dell's or any other maker's
    > tech support is superfulous as with any problem I have with a PC,
    > software etc can in the majority of cases be answered through these
    > groups. Thanks to people like PC Medic, John Burness, JLP 20, Louie
    > Lizars amonnst many others will usually solve your problem or point
    > you in the right direction.
    >
    > Thanks to all
    >
    > Gary Travers
  3. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    We are not all computer techies. What about the poor sole that doesn't even
    know how to open the case of their computer? The big manufacturers, Compaq,
    HP, Dell, Emachines, etc are "marketing" to these consumers. Don't you
    think that since they are being targeted, these non computer techies deserve
    the technical support that they require and that is advertised by these
    companies?

    "GaryT" <GaryT@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
    news:8tkne0le03g22irutk8iseu4nqe6ie3siq@4ax.com...
    > Guys, the on going debate and trolls about Dell's or any other maker's
    > tech support is superfulous as with any problem I have with a PC,
    > software etc can in the majority of cases be answered through these
    > groups. Thanks to people like PC Medic, John Burness, JLP 20, Louie
    > Lizars amonnst many others will usually solve your problem or point
    > you in the right direction.
    >
    > Thanks to all
    >
    > Gary Travers
  4. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    >
    >Guys, the on going debate and trolls about Dell's or any other maker's.....


    Far from an expert, just made a lot of mistakes myself.


    "Anything that doesn't kill you,,,,,,,just hurts a hell of a lot" JLP20
  5. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    The organic entity known as John J. Burness communicated the following:

    > Incidentally, Gary, may I recommend that you disguise your Email Address
    > when using NewsGroups?? Spammers often use automatic trolling software,
    > on NGs, with the specific intent of obtaining "live addys" for the
    > purpose of sending spam. I'm assuming that you don't want to be
    > subjected to hundreds of spams per day!!!

    On the other hand, if ever somebody would claim the domain "ieeDOT.org", he
    would be spammed immediately because you falsely used this domain in your
    from address.

    Hans
  6. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    "Rocket J. Squirrel" <rocky@bullwinkle.com> wrote in message
    news:ae44097bbe95abb683bb63767a9f9c59@news.teranews.com...
    > This is something I believe: Telephone support -- from any OEM -- is for
    > the
    > clueless user. The rest of us take advantage of the enormous amount of
    > information and help available elsewhere.
    >
    > You don't have to become an expert in order to use a computer. However,
    > computing is intrinsically a high technology experience, and anyone who is
    > not prepared to learn how to use their computer would be better off with a
    > cell phone and Nintendo.
    >
    > Rocky
    >

    <snip>


    This is the point that seems to be missed by the most uninformed or
    irresponsible PC users - the damned thing isn't a toaster or refrigerator
    or a television. Using a PC requires a certain amount of responsibility, and
    a willingness to learn and grow with the system.

    The computing experience of a "just turn it on" user is destined to be one
    of pain, malfunction, expense, and continued misery if there is no
    willingness on their part to grow and learn from their mistakes - and part
    of that is admitting, "hey, I screwed up bigtime and won't do THAT again."

    It is for that reason that posts blaming anyone and everyone else for their
    system's problems will continue to be met with skepticism, sarcasm, and
    limited cooperation from other users in any given forum or newsgroup.


    Stew
  7. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    "Irene" <girlsrule@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:10env5l57g2s5d2@corp.supernews.com...
    > We are not all computer techies. What about the poor sole that doesn't
    even
    > know how to open the case of their computer? The big manufacturers,
    Compaq,
    > HP, Dell, Emachines, etc are "marketing" to these consumers. Don't you
    > think that since they are being targeted, these non computer techies
    deserve
    > the technical support that they require and that is advertised by these
    > companies?

    I have problem with your word "deserve" as I see it, meaning entitled to.
    Maybe what we need is an unbundling of support from the sale of the
    hardware. Should everyone have to pay x dollars more for hardware coupled
    with hand holding support? How about selling support separately to those who
    want it.

    It's hard to distinguish between a defective hardware/software problem from
    just an ordinary user screw-up or cluelessness. Certainly, Dell or any other
    PC seller should stand behind their products and provide warranty service,
    but not be liable to repair user caused damage - removing spyware, viruses,
    restoring system files erroneously deleted, etc. A possible solution may be
    to charge for support and waive fees if it's a vendor responsibility -
    hardware or software. There would, of course, be disputes but some
    resolution may be possible.

    Bottom line: Low margins caused by competition cause cost cutting in
    support.
  8. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    "Irene" <girlsrule@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<10env5l57g2s5d2@corp.supernews.com>...
    > We are not all computer techies. What about the poor sole that doesn't even
    > know how to open the case of their computer? The big manufacturers, Compaq,
    > HP, Dell, Emachines, etc are "marketing" to these consumers. Don't you
    > think that since they are being targeted, these non computer techies deserve
    > the technical support that they require and that is advertised by these
    > companies?

    Ford markets cars to anybody who can pay for it. You having
    a license and or fixing it (or paying someone else to) it up to
    the consumer. Computer is no different. If you cant fix or setup
    the computer there are many companies in the phonebook who will
    help for a price OR the consumer can get books..surf the internet
    for information..and learn through trial and error. Ignorance
    is no excuse. Lack of knowledge can always be built on.
    Only expect the companies to offer BASIC support and to replace
    broken and under warranty equipment.
    Dave
  9. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    Irene wrote:
    > We are not all computer techies. What about the poor sole that doesn't even
    > know how to open the case of their computer? The big manufacturers, Compaq,
    > HP, Dell, Emachines, etc are "marketing" to these consumers. Don't you
    > think that since they are being targeted, these non computer techies deserve
    > the technical support that they require and that is advertised by these
    > companies?
    >

    There seems to be a slight misconception here. Just what
    companies are advertising a "free" tech support? Perhaps
    what is being misconstrued is possibly jsut "courtesy" tech
    support. Outside of any implied warranty service, and this
    has been subject to wide interpretations, real tech support
    is a purchased service.

    Do "newbies" deserve better? Certainly. But they cannot
    remain "dumbed down" forever. Nothing beats educational
    programs that teach computer care and utilization at the
    community level, such as at local high schools, computer
    clubs, local users' groups, etc. If not free, then maybe
    for a nominal fee. This route is definitely superior than
    trying to tackle an on-line techie who knows only jargon
    while the newbie can speak only "computer baby-talk".
  10. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    LaVacheQuiRit wrote:

    > The organic entity known as John J. Burness communicated the following:
    >
    >
    >>Incidentally, Gary, may I recommend that you disguise your Email Address
    >>when using NewsGroups?? Spammers often use automatic trolling software,
    >>on NGs, with the specific intent of obtaining "live addys" for the
    >>purpose of sending spam. I'm assuming that you don't want to be
    >>subjected to hundreds of spams per day!!!
    >
    >
    > On the other hand, if ever somebody would claim the domain "ieeDOT.org", he
    > would be spammed immediately because you falsely used this domain in your
    > from address.
    >
    > Hans

    I would have thought that it is highly unlikely that someone would
    register "ieeDOT.org" as a domain!! However, I do accept that,
    theoretically, it is possible!!

    Accordingly, I have heeded your comment & modified my "munged" addy,
    whilst still keeping it decipherable for someone to manually read it!!

    Regards,
    John
  11. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    > This is the point that seems to be missed by the most uninformed or
    > irresponsible PC users - the damned thing isn't a toaster or refrigerator
    > or a television. Using a PC requires a certain amount of responsibility,
    and
    > a willingness to learn and grow with the system.
    >
    > The computing experience of a "just turn it on" user is destined to be one
    > of pain, malfunction, expense, and continued misery if there is no
    > willingness on their part to grow and learn from their mistakes - and part
    > of that is admitting, "hey, I screwed up bigtime and won't do THAT again."
    >
    > It is for that reason that posts blaming anyone and everyone else for
    their
    > system's problems will continue to be met with skepticism, sarcasm, and
    > limited cooperation from other users in any given forum or newsgroup.
    >
    >
    > Stew

    I agree with you 100% Stew and have tried over the years to educate myself.
    However, even the most knowledgeable among us must deal with tech support
    for hardware issues on systems still under warranty. I have 2 Dell systems
    and have had 3 hardware failures that needed to be replaced. I simply
    emailed tech support with the problem, promptly received detailed testing
    instructions, emailed back my results. In each case a new part arrived at
    my doorstep with a technician to install within 48 hours....I would have
    even gladly replaced the parts myself.

    I know many people have had problems with tech support from many companies
    including Dell. My experience has been very pleasant. I think taking the
    time to carefully explain your issue and being polite goes a long way in
    making the tech support experience a painless one.

    BEK
  12. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    I used "deserve", that is true. I defend the use of that particular term
    based on the fact that manufacturers like Compaq, HP, Emachines, Dell, etc
    market their computers in such a manner as to represent them like any other
    home appliance. Add to that, the representation by these manufacturers that
    they will provide technical support to aid those types of consumers. I
    believe the latest Dell add says something like "Award winning 24/7
    technical support" No mention of any qualification such as providing you are
    an experienced computer user, or providing you have enough knowledge to
    provide much of your own support, or providing you are willing and able to
    go the internet, get assistance from Dell or a Dell group and do most the
    trouble shooting and repair yourself.
    I have yet to see a Dell ad showing a 70 year old lady taking apart her new
    computer and changing out parts. Or an admonition that the purchaser should
    possess a degree of computer literacy prior to ordering a Dell.

    "Lenny Bruce" <spamme@devnul.com> wrote in message
    news:AdqdnVuUUMRguXHdRVn-sA@adelphia.com...
    >
    > "Irene" <girlsrule@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:10env5l57g2s5d2@corp.supernews.com...
    > > We are not all computer techies. What about the poor sole that doesn't
    > even
    > > know how to open the case of their computer? The big manufacturers,
    > Compaq,
    > > HP, Dell, Emachines, etc are "marketing" to these consumers. Don't you
    > > think that since they are being targeted, these non computer techies
    > deserve
    > > the technical support that they require and that is advertised by these
    > > companies?
    >
    > I have problem with your word "deserve" as I see it, meaning entitled to.
    > Maybe what we need is an unbundling of support from the sale of the
    > hardware. Should everyone have to pay x dollars more for hardware coupled
    > with hand holding support? How about selling support separately to those
    who
    > want it.
    >
    > It's hard to distinguish between a defective hardware/software problem
    from
    > just an ordinary user screw-up or cluelessness. Certainly, Dell or any
    other
    > PC seller should stand behind their products and provide warranty service,
    > but not be liable to repair user caused damage - removing spyware,
    viruses,
    > restoring system files erroneously deleted, etc. A possible solution may
    be
    > to charge for support and waive fees if it's a vendor responsibility -
    > hardware or software. There would, of course, be disputes but some
    > resolution may be possible.
    >
    > Bottom line: Low margins caused by competition cause cost cutting in
    > support.
    >
    >
  13. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    "S.Lewis" <stew1960@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:MJUGc.24131$XF5.5574@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
    >
    > "Rocket J. Squirrel" <rocky@bullwinkle.com> wrote in message
    > news:ae44097bbe95abb683bb63767a9f9c59@news.teranews.com...
    > > This is something I believe: Telephone support -- from any OEM -- is for
    > > the
    > > clueless user. The rest of us take advantage of the enormous amount of
    > > information and help available elsewhere.
    > >
    > > You don't have to become an expert in order to use a computer. However,
    > > computing is intrinsically a high technology experience, and anyone who
    is
    > > not prepared to learn how to use their computer would be better off with
    a
    > > cell phone and Nintendo.
    > >
    > > Rocky
    > >
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >
    > This is the point that seems to be missed by the most uninformed or
    > irresponsible PC users - the damned thing isn't a toaster or refrigerator
    > or a television. Using a PC requires a certain amount of responsibility,
    and
    > a willingness to learn and grow with the system.
    >
    > The computing experience of a "just turn it on" user is destined to be one
    > of pain, malfunction, expense, and continued misery if there is no
    > willingness on their part to grow and learn from their mistakes - and part
    > of that is admitting, "hey, I screwed up bigtime and won't do THAT again."

    I agree with you but I believe 30% to 49% of problems revolve around
    software and hardware companies themselves.

    I did a test two years ago with a small Dell server and Windows 2K with
    Office XP and Dell supplied drivers. The server was MS 2K certified,
    with only Dell and Microsoft software. Even used the Dell software
    manager (or whatever the thing is called).

    I did not put any extra parts whatsoever because I wanted to see how well
    it would work without messing with it.

    Dang thing crashed a couple time with three phone calls to Dell tech support
    and they escalated to the engineers who conferred with MS.

    To me, that was totally ridiculous considering the server was suppose
    to be W2K CERTIFIED and it only had MS software.

    Oh well I say...

    I do believe that people should be required to take a basic computer
    course to atleast learn basic computing and the vulnerabilites when
    using the Internet.

    <snip>

    moncho
  14. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    "S.Lewis" <stew1960@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:MJUGc.24131$XF5.5574@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
    > the damned thing isn't a toaster or refrigerator
    >or a television.

    Quite correct. But when was the last time the manufacturer of your
    television or refrigerator asked you to "open up the guts, so to speak" of a
    refrigerator under warranty,and replace parts when something when wrong with
    it?
    And I doubt seriously that any television manufacturer has asked you to take
    apart your TV and replace a part, or circuit board. They recognize their
    products for what they are and for what they market them as-----an appliance
    whose mechanics and circuits are beyond the abilities of most of the
    consumers. And that is precisely what is happening in the home computer
    sales market. The majority are sold to appliance operators.

    This all started years ago, when most computers were either totally or
    partially built up by the user/consumer. That is no longer the case. The
    majority of home computers that are sold today are unpack, plug together and
    turn on appliances. Like it or not, computers are being marketed as home
    appliances and a majority of those that are sold, are sold to appliance
    operators, not computer techies.

    "S.Lewis" <stew1960@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:MJUGc.24131$XF5.5574@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
    >
    > "Rocket J. Squirrel" <rocky@bullwinkle.com> wrote in message
    > news:ae44097bbe95abb683bb63767a9f9c59@news.teranews.com...
    > > This is something I believe: Telephone support -- from any OEM -- is for
    > > the
    > > clueless user. The rest of us take advantage of the enormous amount of
    > > information and help available elsewhere.
    > >
    > > You don't have to become an expert in order to use a computer. However,
    > > computing is intrinsically a high technology experience, and anyone who
    is
    > > not prepared to learn how to use their computer would be better off with
    a
    > > cell phone and Nintendo.
    > >
    > > Rocky
    > >
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >
    > This is the point that seems to be missed by the most uninformed or
    > irresponsible PC users - the damned thing isn't a toaster or refrigerator
    > or a television. Using a PC requires a certain amount of responsibility,
    and
    > a willingness to learn and grow with the system.
    >
    > The computing experience of a "just turn it on" user is destined to be one
    > of pain, malfunction, expense, and continued misery if there is no
    > willingness on their part to grow and learn from their mistakes - and part
    > of that is admitting, "hey, I screwed up bigtime and won't do THAT again."
    >
    > It is for that reason that posts blaming anyone and everyone else for
    their
    > system's problems will continue to be met with skepticism, sarcasm, and
    > limited cooperation from other users in any given forum or newsgroup.
    >
    >
    > Stew
    >
    >
  15. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    "David" <davids165@juno.com> wrote in message
    news:4feda6e.0407071215.5cd2f261@posting.google.com

    >You having
    > a license and or fixing it (or paying someone else to) it up to
    > the consumer.

    If that is the Ford dealers treat you, I'm sure glad we don't own any new
    Fords. Are you sure that you have ever owned a new car of any kind? >g<

    We have three fairly new cars(all still under warranty). We have yet to be
    asked to replace a failed fuel injection pump. We weren't asked to replace
    anything like a main engine control chip, or for that matter even replace a
    battery that went bad after 2 and 1/2 years on a car with a 48 month
    warranty. "David" <davids165@juno.com> wrote in message
    news:4feda6e.0407071215.5cd2f261@posting.google.com...
    > "Irene" <girlsrule@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:<10env5l57g2s5d2@corp.supernews.com>...
    > > We are not all computer techies. What about the poor sole that doesn't
    even
    > > know how to open the case of their computer? The big manufacturers,
    Compaq,
    > > HP, Dell, Emachines, etc are "marketing" to these consumers. Don't you
    > > think that since they are being targeted, these non computer techies
    deserve
    > > the technical support that they require and that is advertised by these
    > > companies?
    >
    > Ford markets cars to anybody who can pay for it. You having
    > a license and or fixing it (or paying someone else to) it up to
    > the consumer. Computer is no different. If you cant fix or setup
    > the computer there are many companies in the phonebook who will
    > help for a price OR the consumer can get books..surf the internet
    > for information..and learn through trial and error. Ignorance
    > is no excuse. Lack of knowledge can always be built on.
    > Only expect the companies to offer BASIC support and to replace
    > broken and under warranty equipment.
    > Dave
  16. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    "Ghostrider" <-00-@fitron.142> wrote in message
    news:10eomnaj95fu491@news.supernews.com...
    > Just what
    > companies are advertising a "free" tech support?


    Who said anything about "free". We paid for the 4 year warranty and support
    that has long since gone to you know where.

    "Ghostrider" <-00-@fitron.142> wrote in message
    news:10eomnaj95fu491@news.supernews.com...
    >
    > Irene wrote:
    > > We are not all computer techies. What about the poor sole that doesn't
    even
    > > know how to open the case of their computer? The big manufacturers,
    Compaq,
    > > HP, Dell, Emachines, etc are "marketing" to these consumers. Don't you
    > > think that since they are being targeted, these non computer techies
    deserve
    > > the technical support that they require and that is advertised by these
    > > companies?
    > >
    >
    > There seems to be a slight misconception here. Just what
    > companies are advertising a "free" tech support? Perhaps
    > what is being misconstrued is possibly jsut "courtesy" tech
    > support. Outside of any implied warranty service, and this
    > has been subject to wide interpretations, real tech support
    > is a purchased service.
    >
    > Do "newbies" deserve better? Certainly. But they cannot
    > remain "dumbed down" forever. Nothing beats educational
    > programs that teach computer care and utilization at the
    > community level, such as at local high schools, computer
    > clubs, local users' groups, etc. If not free, then maybe
    > for a nominal fee. This route is definitely superior than
    > trying to tackle an on-line techie who knows only jargon
    > while the newbie can speak only "computer baby-talk".
    >
  17. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    You are correct, of course, so allow me to modify my earlier post. Telephone
    support is not *only* for the clueless user: If someone needs a part
    replaced under warranty, it may be faster to call the support line, although
    the same can be accomplished via e-mail. And if your computer doesn't work
    at all, there may be no other choice but to pick up the phone.

    Absent those circumstances, I still believe that telephone support is for
    the clueless. (There are always exceptions.)

    I have had many opportunities to contact support techs over the years. Like
    you, I have discovered that most techs will treat you very well if you treat
    them well.

    Rocky


    "BEK" <greywingsnospamplease@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:DrVGc.41417$Oq2.20468@attbi_s52...
    >
    > > This is the point that seems to be missed by the most uninformed or
    > > irresponsible PC users - the damned thing isn't a toaster or
    refrigerator
    > > or a television. Using a PC requires a certain amount of responsibility,
    > and
    > > a willingness to learn and grow with the system.
    > >
    > > The computing experience of a "just turn it on" user is destined to be
    one
    > > of pain, malfunction, expense, and continued misery if there is no
    > > willingness on their part to grow and learn from their mistakes - and
    part
    > > of that is admitting, "hey, I screwed up bigtime and won't do THAT
    again."
    > >
    > > It is for that reason that posts blaming anyone and everyone else for
    > their
    > > system's problems will continue to be met with skepticism, sarcasm, and
    > > limited cooperation from other users in any given forum or newsgroup.
    > >
    > >
    > > Stew
    >
    > I agree with you 100% Stew and have tried over the years to educate
    myself.
    > However, even the most knowledgeable among us must deal with tech support
    > for hardware issues on systems still under warranty. I have 2 Dell
    systems
    > and have had 3 hardware failures that needed to be replaced. I simply
    > emailed tech support with the problem, promptly received detailed testing
    > instructions, emailed back my results. In each case a new part arrived at
    > my doorstep with a technician to install within 48 hours....I would have
    > even gladly replaced the parts myself.
    >
    > I know many people have had problems with tech support from many companies
    > including Dell. My experience has been very pleasant. I think taking the
    > time to carefully explain your issue and being polite goes a long way in
    > making the tech support experience a painless one.
    >
    > BEK
    >
    >
  18. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    "BEK" <greywingsnospamplease@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:DrVGc.41417$Oq2.20468@attbi_s52...
    >
    >> This is the point that seems to be missed by the most uninformed or
    >> irresponsible PC users - the damned thing isn't a toaster or
    >> refrigerator
    >> or a television. Using a PC requires a certain amount of responsibility,
    > and
    >> a willingness to learn and grow with the system.
    >>
    >> The computing experience of a "just turn it on" user is destined to be
    >> one
    >> of pain, malfunction, expense, and continued misery if there is no
    >> willingness on their part to grow and learn from their mistakes - and
    >> part
    >> of that is admitting, "hey, I screwed up bigtime and won't do THAT
    >> again."
    >>
    >> It is for that reason that posts blaming anyone and everyone else for
    > their
    >> system's problems will continue to be met with skepticism, sarcasm, and
    >> limited cooperation from other users in any given forum or newsgroup.
    >>
    >>
    >> Stew
    >
    > I agree with you 100% Stew and have tried over the years to educate
    > myself.
    > However, even the most knowledgeable among us must deal with tech support
    > for hardware issues on systems still under warranty. I have 2 Dell
    > systems
    > and have had 3 hardware failures that needed to be replaced. I simply
    > emailed tech support with the problem, promptly received detailed testing
    > instructions, emailed back my results. In each case a new part arrived at
    > my doorstep with a technician to install within 48 hours....I would have
    > even gladly replaced the parts myself.
    >
    > I know many people have had problems with tech support from many companies
    > including Dell. My experience has been very pleasant. I think taking the
    > time to carefully explain your issue and being polite goes a long way in
    > making the tech support experience a painless one.
    >
    > BEK
    >
    >

    And this is also perhaps a key in the user helping him/herself in the
    matter - as you've pointed out. If one is able to call a help desk with
    specifics about a problem, especially a clear, concise diagnostic failure
    that can be readily identified - life becomes far easier. Mind you, this is
    simplistic and is probably asking a lot.

    caller: "My hard drive is bad. Send me a new one."
    phone monkey: "What is it that makes you believe your hard drive has
    failed"?"
    caller: "I'm getting some error messages."
    phone monkey: "What are the specific messages?"
    caller: "I don't know, they sort of flashed up on the screen and I didn't
    write them down."
    (this call could now theoretically last, oh, several hours to a couple of
    days, or maybe more)

    as opposed to:

    caller: "My hard drive has failed, and I'd like to request a replacement".
    phone monkey: "What is it that makes you believe your hard drive has
    failed?"
    caller: "It fails the SMART short test and give me a return code 7 when I
    run the quick diagnostics. It also fails a surface scan indicating bad
    clusters."
    phone monkey: "where would you like the drive sent?"
    (the caller has just given the phone tech 2-3 accepted indicators that the
    drive is indeed bad)


    Again, how many new users will venture out on the web (or if their machine
    is down, have the capes to surf) to find forums where they can get
    additional information to prep for a service call? Not many, I'd think.

    Communication of correct information as well as user desire to dig a bit
    deeper in pursuit of a solution can go a long way into making any call a lot
    easier.


    Stew
  19. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    The presumption behind the advertising is that users accept the
    responsibility to learn how to use their computers. Considering the enormous
    amount of information available, this is entirely reasonable.

    For those unwilling to accept that responsibility there are typewriters.

    Rocky

    "Irene" <girlsrule@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:10eofrn5r57gv3e@corp.supernews.com...
    > I used "deserve", that is true. I defend the use of that particular term
    > based on the fact that manufacturers like Compaq, HP, Emachines, Dell,
    etc
    > market their computers in such a manner as to represent them like any
    other
    > home appliance. Add to that, the representation by these manufacturers
    that
    > they will provide technical support to aid those types of consumers. I
    > believe the latest Dell add says something like "Award winning 24/7
    > technical support" No mention of any qualification such as providing you
    are
    > an experienced computer user, or providing you have enough knowledge to
    > provide much of your own support, or providing you are willing and able to
    > go the internet, get assistance from Dell or a Dell group and do most the
    > trouble shooting and repair yourself.
    > I have yet to see a Dell ad showing a 70 year old lady taking apart her
    new
    > computer and changing out parts. Or an admonition that the purchaser
    should
    > possess a degree of computer literacy prior to ordering a Dell.
    >
    > "Lenny Bruce" <spamme@devnul.com> wrote in message
    > news:AdqdnVuUUMRguXHdRVn-sA@adelphia.com...
    > >
    > > "Irene" <girlsrule@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > > news:10env5l57g2s5d2@corp.supernews.com...
    > > > We are not all computer techies. What about the poor sole that doesn't
    > > even
    > > > know how to open the case of their computer? The big manufacturers,
    > > Compaq,
    > > > HP, Dell, Emachines, etc are "marketing" to these consumers. Don't
    you
    > > > think that since they are being targeted, these non computer techies
    > > deserve
    > > > the technical support that they require and that is advertised by
    these
    > > > companies?
    > >
    > > I have problem with your word "deserve" as I see it, meaning entitled
    to.
    > > Maybe what we need is an unbundling of support from the sale of the
    > > hardware. Should everyone have to pay x dollars more for hardware
    coupled
    > > with hand holding support? How about selling support separately to those
    > who
    > > want it.
    > >
    > > It's hard to distinguish between a defective hardware/software problem
    > from
    > > just an ordinary user screw-up or cluelessness. Certainly, Dell or any
    > other
    > > PC seller should stand behind their products and provide warranty
    service,
    > > but not be liable to repair user caused damage - removing spyware,
    > viruses,
    > > restoring system files erroneously deleted, etc. A possible solution may
    > be
    > > to charge for support and waive fees if it's a vendor responsibility -
    > > hardware or software. There would, of course, be disputes but some
    > > resolution may be possible.
    > >
    > > Bottom line: Low margins caused by competition cause cost cutting in
    > > support.
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
  20. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    Irene wrote:
    > "Ghostrider" <-00-@fitron.142> wrote in message
    > news:10eomnaj95fu491@news.supernews.com...
    >
    >>Just what
    >>companies are advertising a "free" tech support?
    >
    >

    That is just throwing money away. If a computer fails
    within the first 48 hours of operation or presents a
    repeatable problem (i.e., a "lemon") in the first few
    months, all within the warranty period, it is essentially
    not repairable. And whatever the end-user installs after
    receipt becomes the responsibility of the end-user.

    So what need for an extended warranty and support. The
    knowledgeable (or educated) user saves money by being
    able to make repairs, improvements, maintenance, etc.,
    without needing a support techie. Or, perhaps, the
    neophyte user should not be acquiring complex systems at
    that early stage of knowledge.

    A possible analogy: When learning to become a pilot, who
    starts at the controls of a Boeing 747...more likely a
    Cessna 172.
  21. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    Could you please point me to one of some of that advertising that indicates
    such a "presumption"?

    "Rocket J. Squirrel" <rocky@bullwinkle.com> wrote in message
    news:09302dd64e62897e4da31b78690353f8@news.teranews.com...
    > The presumption behind the advertising is that users accept the
    > responsibility to learn how to use their computers. Considering the
    enormous
    > amount of information available, this is entirely reasonable.
    >
    > For those unwilling to accept that responsibility there are typewriters.
    >
    > Rocky
    >
    > "Irene" <girlsrule@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:10eofrn5r57gv3e@corp.supernews.com...
    > > I used "deserve", that is true. I defend the use of that particular term
    > > based on the fact that manufacturers like Compaq, HP, Emachines, Dell,
    > etc
    > > market their computers in such a manner as to represent them like any
    > other
    > > home appliance. Add to that, the representation by these manufacturers
    > that
    > > they will provide technical support to aid those types of consumers. I
    > > believe the latest Dell add says something like "Award winning 24/7
    > > technical support" No mention of any qualification such as providing you
    > are
    > > an experienced computer user, or providing you have enough knowledge to
    > > provide much of your own support, or providing you are willing and able
    to
    > > go the internet, get assistance from Dell or a Dell group and do most
    the
    > > trouble shooting and repair yourself.
    > > I have yet to see a Dell ad showing a 70 year old lady taking apart her
    > new
    > > computer and changing out parts. Or an admonition that the purchaser
    > should
    > > possess a degree of computer literacy prior to ordering a Dell.
    > >
    > > "Lenny Bruce" <spamme@devnul.com> wrote in message
    > > news:AdqdnVuUUMRguXHdRVn-sA@adelphia.com...
    > > >
    > > > "Irene" <girlsrule@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > > > news:10env5l57g2s5d2@corp.supernews.com...
    > > > > We are not all computer techies. What about the poor sole that
    doesn't
    > > > even
    > > > > know how to open the case of their computer? The big manufacturers,
    > > > Compaq,
    > > > > HP, Dell, Emachines, etc are "marketing" to these consumers. Don't
    > you
    > > > > think that since they are being targeted, these non computer techies
    > > > deserve
    > > > > the technical support that they require and that is advertised by
    > these
    > > > > companies?
    > > >
    > > > I have problem with your word "deserve" as I see it, meaning entitled
    > to.
    > > > Maybe what we need is an unbundling of support from the sale of the
    > > > hardware. Should everyone have to pay x dollars more for hardware
    > coupled
    > > > with hand holding support? How about selling support separately to
    those
    > > who
    > > > want it.
    > > >
    > > > It's hard to distinguish between a defective hardware/software problem
    > > from
    > > > just an ordinary user screw-up or cluelessness. Certainly, Dell or any
    > > other
    > > > PC seller should stand behind their products and provide warranty
    > service,
    > > > but not be liable to repair user caused damage - removing spyware,
    > > viruses,
    > > > restoring system files erroneously deleted, etc. A possible solution
    may
    > > be
    > > > to charge for support and waive fees if it's a vendor responsibility -
    > > > hardware or software. There would, of course, be disputes but some
    > > > resolution may be possible.
    > > >
    > > > Bottom line: Low margins caused by competition cause cost cutting in
    > > > support.
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
  22. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    Irene is right in the sense that computers are sold to the general public as
    an appliance and that one shouldn't have to be a technician to use one. The
    problem is that the current state of the art in computer/software design is
    primative yet extremely complex at the same time. Think about all the things
    a computer has to deal with: Running word processing, speadsheets, data
    base, graphic programs etc. email, internet, multi-media, etc, and at the
    same time, trying to protect against very clever evil doers bent on breaking
    in and upsetting all this.

    Everyone acknowledges that computers are too complex for the general public
    due to the wide range of hardware components and software produced by
    different sources. How many people have trouble programming their VCR or
    TIVO? If we had a strict set of standards, uniform design and centralized
    control over all hardware and software components, we'd have less problems
    but then people would complain about the heavy handed monopoly. This
    explains, to some degree, why Apple Computer users have less problems then
    PC users. It also explains the opposite with respect to Linux users.

    I think that eventually computer use will simplify, but as always, knowledge
    is power and a little self help goes a long way, both in fixing any problems
    yourself and explaining the problem to a tech support person.

    For Irene and others suffering with inadequate tech support, I suggest a
    little study about the complex machine you bought and/or consider an
    additional purchase of independent local tech support.
  23. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    My husband and I know several pilots, some of whom fly 747's and 172's. With
    the exceptions of one small plane pilot who also happens to be a licensed
    mechanic, I have yet to hear one of them tell of having to replace parts on
    the airplane that he happened to be flying on a particular day. >g<
    From what I have heard, the 747 pilots get more technical support than
    most of us could ever imagine.
    BTW, also, from what I heard in conversations with my husbands airline pilot
    friends, they mostly start in military jet trainers rather than 172's.


    "Ghostrider" <-00-@fitron.142> wrote in message
    news:10ep6re3jqku7f8@news.supernews.com...
    >
    > Irene wrote:
    > > "Ghostrider" <-00-@fitron.142> wrote in message
    > > news:10eomnaj95fu491@news.supernews.com...
    > >
    > >>Just what
    > >>companies are advertising a "free" tech support?
    > >
    > >
    >
    > That is just throwing money away. If a computer fails
    > within the first 48 hours of operation or presents a
    > repeatable problem (i.e., a "lemon") in the first few
    > months, all within the warranty period, it is essentially
    > not repairable. And whatever the end-user installs after
    > receipt becomes the responsibility of the end-user.
    >
    > So what need for an extended warranty and support. The
    > knowledgeable (or educated) user saves money by being
    > able to make repairs, improvements, maintenance, etc.,
    > without needing a support techie. Or, perhaps, the
    > neophyte user should not be acquiring complex systems at
    > that early stage of knowledge.
    >
    > A possible analogy: When learning to become a pilot, who
    > starts at the controls of a Boeing 747...more likely a
    > Cessna 172.
    >
  24. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    Well said.

    Our newest computer(not a Dell) was a local purchase and includes the kind
    of support that we need. And yes, we did have to pay more for it. But we are
    also getting what we paid for.

    "Lenny Bruce" <spamme@devnul.com> wrote in message
    news:coGdnboX4tpr4HHd4p2dnA@adelphia.com...
    > Irene is right in the sense that computers are sold to the general public
    as
    > an appliance and that one shouldn't have to be a technician to use one.
    The
    > problem is that the current state of the art in computer/software design
    is
    > primative yet extremely complex at the same time. Think about all the
    things
    > a computer has to deal with: Running word processing, speadsheets, data
    > base, graphic programs etc. email, internet, multi-media, etc, and at the
    > same time, trying to protect against very clever evil doers bent on
    breaking
    > in and upsetting all this.
    >
    > Everyone acknowledges that computers are too complex for the general
    public
    > due to the wide range of hardware components and software produced by
    > different sources. How many people have trouble programming their VCR or
    > TIVO? If we had a strict set of standards, uniform design and centralized
    > control over all hardware and software components, we'd have less problems
    > but then people would complain about the heavy handed monopoly. This
    > explains, to some degree, why Apple Computer users have less problems then
    > PC users. It also explains the opposite with respect to Linux users.
    >
    > I think that eventually computer use will simplify, but as always,
    knowledge
    > is power and a little self help goes a long way, both in fixing any
    problems
    > yourself and explaining the problem to a tech support person.
    >
    > For Irene and others suffering with inadequate tech support, I suggest a
    > little study about the complex machine you bought and/or consider an
    > additional purchase of independent local tech support.
    >
    >
    >
  25. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    Ghostrider wrote:
    >
    > Irene wrote:
    > > "Ghostrider" <-00-@fitron.142> wrote in message
    > > news:10eomnaj95fu491@news.supernews.com...
    > >
    > >>Just what
    > >>companies are advertising a "free" tech support?
    > >
    > >
    >
    > That is just throwing money away. If a computer fails
    > within the first 48 hours of operation or presents a
    > repeatable problem (i.e., a "lemon") in the first few
    > months, all within the warranty period, it is essentially
    > not repairable. And whatever the end-user installs after
    > receipt becomes the responsibility of the end-user.
    >
    > So what need for an extended warranty and support. The
    > knowledgeable (or educated) user saves money by being
    > able to make repairs, improvements, maintenance, etc.,
    > without needing a support techie. Or, perhaps, the
    > neophyte user should not be acquiring complex systems at
    > that early stage of knowledge.

    What about laptops, whose components are often not user
    replaceable or, for that matter, accessible?

    Notan
  26. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    Irene wrote:
    >
    > Well said.
    >
    > Our newest computer(not a Dell) was a local purchase and includes the kind
    > of support that we need. And yes, we did have to pay more for it. But we are
    > also getting what we paid for.

    It's been noted many times, in this newsgroup, that Dell offers a
    higher-than-average level of support, also at an increased price.

    I wonder what other companies (other than the locals) offer this
    level at *any* cost.

    I'm not saying Dell is the best, just wondering who else offers it.

    Notan
  27. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    Are you referring to Dell Gold and Platinum Service contracts? Which is by
    the way Dell's quality tech support. Dell offers Gold and Platinum support
    , but not to those who purchase home computers from the Home/Home Office
    sales group.
    I checked the web site and called to verify it. I received the same answer
    as before. Not available for Home/Home Office computers.

    "Notan" <notan@ddress.com> wrote in message
    news:40ECE8C0.AE896DAB@ddress.com...
    > Irene wrote:
    > >
    > > Well said.
    > >
    > > Our newest computer(not a Dell) was a local purchase and includes the
    kind
    > > of support that we need. And yes, we did have to pay more for it. But we
    are
    > > also getting what we paid for.
    >
    > It's been noted many times, in this newsgroup, that Dell offers a
    > higher-than-average level of support, also at an increased price.
    >
    > I wonder what other companies (other than the locals) offer this
    > level at *any* cost.
    >
    > I'm not saying Dell is the best, just wondering who else offers it.
    >
    > Notan
  28. Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

    Irene wrote:
    >
    > Are you referring to Dell Gold and Platinum Service contracts? Which is by
    > the way Dell's quality tech support. Dell offers Gold and Platinum support
    > , but not to those who purchase home computers from the Home/Home Office
    > sales group.
    > I checked the web site and called to verify it. I received the same answer
    > as before. Not available for Home/Home Office computers.

    You're correct... They're only available to Small Business purchasers, and up.

    Notan
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