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black hole q's

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September 13, 2005 3:03:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

recently purchased a black hole machine, been working through the
upgrades given in http://marvin3m.com/sys80/, wow what a list. now a
few questions...

what is the cause of the lane catcher on the right drain constantly
switching back and forth? does the machine think it's lost a ball?

does anyone have recommended fuse changes? my machine came with all the
wrong fuses. there were 8 amp fuses for instance in 2.5 amp locations.
trying to do the right thing but occasionally a fuse does go. like that
crazy small 1/4 amp fuse. does anyone increases in ratings over what's
specified in http://marvin3m.com/sys80/ ?

is everyone's lower playfield plastics broken by where the ball drops
from the upper field? it would seem that way digging around on the net
for photos? does everyone have that nail there in the lower playfield?
why not use a mini post there? where do i get a replacement?

i have a broken mini post by the "black" drop targets. looks like it's
right "in the line of fire". how do i get the old screw out of the
field to get a new one in without destroying the field?

thanks

More about : black hole

September 13, 2005 3:07:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

<<what is the cause of the lane catcher on the right drain constantly
switching back and forth? does the machine think it's lost a ball? >>

Supposed to do that in attract mode. Probably just a side effect of it
switching the relay that turns the lower playfield lights on, and it
could probably flip back and forth another 50 years without wearing
out, it has a nylon bearing.
Anonymous
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September 13, 2005 9:25:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

You can get screw extractor kits to try to extract the screw, it might
do a bit of damage to the playfield. Replace with a bolted through
post (uses nylon locknut through PF) much better if you are clear under
that area.

The gate goes because it's switched by a lamp circuit instead of a
solenoid circuit, and my guess is they left the programming in the
attract lamps either because they didn't notice, didn't care, or it
would have taken a lot of recoding to eliminate it.

Do not increase the fuse amperage over what's recommended. Usually
higher value fuses are in place because people did not have the right
size and wanted to get the game going, or there was a problem where the
fuses kept blowing and rather than fix the problem, they put a higher
amperage fuse in there and it "works".

Excellent way to blow up more than just a fuse BTW. There are some
locations that could use an added fuse (upkickers in Black hole and
Haunted house come to mind), detailed in the marvin sys80 guide. For
protection devices to work properly, you want the fuse to blow instead
of the coil melting, or the transistor popping on the driver board.
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Anonymous
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September 13, 2005 9:30:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

farmboy wrote:
> what is the cause of the lane catcher on the right drain constantly
> switching back and forth? does the machine think it's lost a ball?

that's attract mode. Part of the lure that is known as Black hole.
Normal.

> does anyone have recommended fuse changes? my machine came with all the
> wrong fuses. there were 8 amp fuses for instance in 2.5 amp locations.
> trying to do the right thing but occasionally a fuse does go. like that
> crazy small 1/4 amp fuse. does anyone increases in ratings over what's
> specified in http://marvin3m.com/sys80/ ?

I've never had problems with fuse blows when the proper one was used.
Check the manual and make sure you know the diff between slow blow and
normal fuses.

> is everyone's lower playfield plastics broken by where the ball drops
> from the upper field? it would seem that way digging around on the net
> for photos? does everyone have that nail there in the lower playfield?
> why not use a mini post there? where do i get a replacement?

Pinball resouce has made reproduction plastics for black hole, but I am
not sure they include the lower. Check with them.

> i have a broken mini post by the "black" drop targets. looks like it's
> right "in the line of fire". how do i get the old screw out of the
> field to get a new one in without destroying the field?

easy out screw extractor? This might be tough, but you can always fix
the hole with some filler of some sort for the new post.

Kirb
September 13, 2005 12:52:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I have a set of Plastics but dont know if its the upper or lower PF (
This is the PF with the Tube ) ???

Pin-Del,
Anonymous
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September 13, 2005 6:58:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

farmboy wrote:

> what is the cause of the lane catcher on the right drain constantly
> switching back and forth? does the machine think it's lost a ball?

The gate is tied to the outlane lamp via the relay. That is, when the
relay moves, it switches the outlane lamps and moves the gate. All off
one driver transistor. I used to be annoyed by this, but now I kinda
like the "click-click" sound of BH in attract mode. You could probably
build a supressor circuit tied to the game relay state -- don't power
the outlane gate relay or lamps unless a game is in progress.

> is everyone's lower playfield plastics broken by where the ball drops
> from the upper field? it would seem that way digging around on the net
> for photos? does everyone have that nail there in the lower playfield?
> why not use a mini post there? where do i get a replacement?

My lower PF plastics are in good shape (if a bit warped). There's no
nail in my lower PF anywhere. Haven't seen replacement lower PF
plastics, but I bought a nice set of uppers last year from PBR.

_Jack_
September 13, 2005 11:08:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

i have posted some pictures at
http://www.fifengr.com/black-hole

as you can see my lower playfield plastics are damaged (like most other
photos i've seen on the net). the plastics (from what i gather) should
continue for a straight line behind the kick bumper target (hiding the
mechanism). so this damage is operator error?

it seems weird that there was, what i can only guess, an after thought
to protecting the bulb - thus the nail in the playfield. why didn't
they install a mini post - i'm tempted to myself.

in the last picture, you'll see there is some sort of extra card
plugged into my cpu board - what's that about? it's labeled "ma-164".
any ideas on that?
September 13, 2005 11:55:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

<<it seems weird that there was, what i can only guess, an after
thought
to protecting the bulb - thus the nail in the playfield. why didn't
they install a mini post - i'm tempted to myself. >>

Mine has the nail. With the positioning of the bulb and all the other
miniposts and the post and the drop chute there, a post isn't really
needed, it's impossible to shoot the ball into that space even if the
chute wasn't blocking it. I suppose it's possible a ball could wiggle
it's way in there somehow but a nail is more than enough to protect the
bulb against that. Nails are not unusual on Gottliebs and other games
since the EM days, they are placed under plastics as ball guides and/or
supports - just leave it there...Frenchy
September 14, 2005 2:06:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

> recently purchased a black hole machine, been working through the
> upgrades given in http://marvin3m.com/sys80/, wow what a list. now a
> few questions...
>
> what is the cause of the lane catcher on the right drain constantly
> switching back and forth? does the machine think it's lost a ball?
>
> does anyone have recommended fuse changes? my machine came with all
the
> wrong fuses. there were 8 amp fuses for instance in 2.5 amp locations.
> trying to do the right thing but occasionally a fuse does go. like
that
> crazy small 1/4 amp fuse. does anyone increases in ratings over what's
> specified in http://marvin3m.com/sys80/ ?
>
> is everyone's lower playfield plastics broken by where the ball drops
> from the upper field? it would seem that way digging around on the net
> for photos? does everyone have that nail there in the lower
playfield?

That nail is on everyones playfield.

Sometime the plastic may break when the upper playfield is lowered back
into the cabinet and the metal spiral hits the plastic. You have to make
sure the playfield is seated far enough in the cabinet. I have a lower
set of plastics if you need some pieces. I'd only charge a small fee.

> why not use a mini post there? where do i get a replacement?
>
> i have a broken mini post by the "black" drop targets. looks like it's
> right "in the line of fire". how do i get the old screw out of the
> field to get a new one in without destroying the field?
>
> thanks
>
Good luck with your adventure. If you need pics or more info let us
know. This group is here to help.
September 14, 2005 12:25:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

so what's the "ma-164" card? i can't find any documention on it, and
i've seen some machines on the net without it.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
September 14, 2005 1:48:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

farmboy wrote:
> so what's the "ma-164" card? i can't find any documention on it, and
> i've seen some machines on the net without it.

Plugged into the 40 pin slot at the top of the CPU? That would be the
reset board that forces a CPU reset if it hangs up. GTB sys80 didn't
have this circuit and would burn up transistors and coils when the CPU
took a dump.

I always removed them since they caused more trouble than they were
worth.

Kirb
September 16, 2005 3:48:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

good advice kirb. i'll remove the card.

i inspected the plastics near the "hole drop point" on the lower
playfield. besides the break and missing piece, i thought the plastics
were heat-bent, but that's not the case. the clear post is a 1 1/4"
post instead of the rest of the 1" posts and is pushing up there. is
this typical for everyone's games? or did someone break a post there
and replace it with the wrong one. 1 1/4" seems to be used on the upper
playfield for the one sided lane guides and everything else seems to be
1" posts.

also, i noticed that it's very easy for the plastics to get too low due
to wear around the point with the acorn nuts. this causes interference
with the leaf switches for the kick bumpers - which in-turn causes
burnt solenoids / fuses. anyone else notice that?
!