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I'm Building New System...Help???

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March 9, 2005 1:47:47 PM

Sorry guys, I should of been more specific....

Old System:
768 mb RAM
Athlon 2400 XP
EIDE HD ATA100 40G
5500 GeForce3 or 4?
21" CRT Hitachi

New System:
Klipsch PC Speaker System (2 front spkrs, 1 subwoofer)
I plan to use Sound Card Located on Motherboard 7.1 channel
MSI Neo4 Platinum SLI Motherboard
74G Raptor SATA Harddrive preferred (or 2 80G SATA 7200rpm @ Raid 0?)
Athlon 64 3200 or 3500 90nm 939 socket
1 gig RAM PC3200
GeForce4 6600GT,6800GT, or X800XL Video Card PCI-Express (1 card for now)
Keyboard
Mouse MX-1000 Logitech (Laser)
Coolmaster Case
Neo 480 Power Supplier (480 Watts)
Hyundai 19" LCD - Researched on TomsHardware
Plextor DVD-CD writer/reader Dual Layer 16X DVD-Reader....
Coolmaster Temp & Fan controller

Question(s):
1. How about getting two SATA Harddrives 80G each @ 7200 rpm, setup as Raid? Will the performance be close to that of 1 raptor drive?
2. Will I loose that much speed utilizing two SATA 7200rpm drives at raid, versus using one raptor?
3. Is my power supply adequate?
4. Will my onboard soundcard eat more cpu processes than a stand alone sound card like Audigy, etc.....? Would you recommend an Audigy card versus on-board sound card?
5. Most likely I'll only purchase 1 card for the system. So, based on that, and the reviews/tests, I think the X800XL is a real contender. It's about the same or better than two 6600GT's SLI, and close or better than one 6800GT. What is your recommendation?

Note: Most of the items I chose for the new system I've researched and researched on tomshardware, pcgameworld, ect, ect...

More about : building system

March 9, 2005 3:12:11 PM

1-better performance and more storage
2-no
3-Yes it should
4-sound card concern about CPU cycle have always been a topic, even in the time of 486, and first pentium. With today's computer, you may loose some FPS, but you wont notice it.
5-x800xl and the non sli version of that motherboard, no Plextor drive as they are overpriced and not really worth it as today's burners are vey good while Plextor's one seem plagued with firmware problems.

Get faster RAM, like ddr500, with what you saved on the non sli version and the 3200+, so if you want to try OC, you'll have a more better system

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 9, 2005 3:54:18 PM

He's right about that RAM, go for the pc4000 if you can afford it.

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a b à CPUs
March 9, 2005 3:56:26 PM

Pat: What do you think of this review by anandtech on <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2101" target="_new">RAID 0</A>? It seems they don't think a lot about RAID0 performance increases...
Also, this admittedly old <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2073" target="_new">review of HDDs</A> seems to say that the real-world performance increase of the Raptor drives is good, but not as significant as synthetic benchmarks would imply. I would've posted this in the HDD forum, but it came up in her and I just read the reviews...

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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
a b à CPUs
March 9, 2005 4:02:45 PM

Quote:
non sli version and the 3200+

Don't you mean non-sli version of the motherboard? Something like this<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?descripti..." target="_new">MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum</A> for $159, or even better the <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?descripti..." target="_new">DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra D</A> for $147.

<pre>(seems the nF4 Ultra boards are going up in prices)</pre><p>__________________________________________________
<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
March 9, 2005 4:04:37 PM

Faster drives will just shorten the duration by the percentage they are faster during the period they are the bottleneck. The rest of the time their will be no performance increase, whatsoever.

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
a b à CPUs
March 9, 2005 4:13:11 PM

And thus, unless you will be performing a lot of HDD intensive operations, the cost/benefit of going Raptor will be high and the same thing could be said about RAID0. I know that Pat has a lot of experience with RAID0 performance and wanted to get his thoughts, too. Rich - do you use RAID0 a lot?

__________________________________________________
<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
March 9, 2005 4:57:08 PM

Okay, bare with me, I'll try and interpret your recommendations....

1. No significant performance gain utilizing a raptor over 7200rpm Raid0 config. And after reading the review/tests, I'm convinced a single drive Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm is the ticket.

2. With the extra money I save from a single HDD, I'll purchase PC4000 memory.

3. I was going to ask the question about non-sli boards, but figured sli is the way to go regardless of ATI or nV. Therefore, I'm set on getting the X800XL video card. Would this be X800XL 8x? or X800XL 4x? I'm assume AGP is the correct config.

4. Motherboard, I'm leaning towards MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum versus the DFI nF4 Ultra D.

5. I believe I'll have extra cash to possibly get a AMD 64 3500 versus 3200.

Before:
MSI Neo4 Platinum SLI Motherboard
74G Raptor SATA Harddrive preferred (or 2 80G SATA 7200rpm @ Raid 0?)
Athlon 64 3200 or 3500 90nm 939 socket
1 gig RAM PC3200
GeForce4 6600GT,6800GT, or X800XL Video Card PCI-Express (1 card for now)
Neo 480 Power Supplier (480 Watts)
Hyundai 19" LCD - Researched on TomsHardware
Plextor DVD-CD writer/reader Dual Layer 16X DVD-Reader....
Coolmaster Temp & Fan controller

Revised:
MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum (AGP Slot)
Seagate Barracuda 160G 7200rpm
Athlon 64 3200 or 3500 90nm 939 socket
1 gig RAM PC3200 or PC4000
X800XL Video Card AGP
Neo 480 Power Supplier (480 Watts)
Hyundai 19" LCD - Researched on TomsHardware
NEC DVD-CD Dual Layer
Coolmaster Temp & Fan controller

Any other recommendations before I print this revision, and execute? Gentleman, I think I have a system!!






<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by SmokinBarrel on 03/09/05 02:01 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 9, 2005 5:09:17 PM

Go with the 3200+ and don't get PC4000. A64s are NOT bandwidth starved, so you can o/c, use a divider and lose 1% performance while saving a good chunk of change. Use the money you save on the ram and the processor to get a single 74 GB raptor and a 200/250 GB SATA drive as well. Install your os and programs on the raptor, and your data files on the larger drive.

s signature has been formatted to fit your scr
March 9, 2005 5:10:57 PM

I have had 3 systems with onboard RAID 0, and have order list for a Netcell syncRAID and 3 Raptors waiting to order.
I have not had any errors loss of data or crashes due to RAID 0, but do not see enough performance jump to take that possible hit in reliability.

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
March 9, 2005 5:11:41 PM

He won't get better performance out of a raid system over a single raptor. The seek times for the raptor will be much faster, and bandwidth won't do much for him. Read some of the reviews. Add to the fact that you have 2 drives which can fail now, as opposed to only one with a 5 year warranty.

s signature has been formatted to fit your scr
March 9, 2005 5:12:25 PM

I do and have exactly what svrpig suggests above for storage now.

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
March 9, 2005 5:41:07 PM

Okay, I believe this will be my new system:

MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum (AGP Slot) or DFI nF4 Ultra D
Seagate Barracuda 80 - 160G 7200rpm + 74G Raptor (Raid 0)
Athlon 64 3200 90nm 939 socket
1 gig RAM PC3200
X800XL Video Card AGP
Neo 480 Power Supplier (480 Watts)
Hyundai 19" LCD - Researched on TomsHardware
NEC DVD-CD Dual Layer
Coolmaster Temp & Fan controller

How about this setup??? On a scale of 1 - 10 (10 being awesome setup/system) If you mark below 7, please state you cons, or improvement(s)?

_______________

My old system:
Athlon XP 2400
768G Ram PC2100
GeForce nV2 or 3, 5500 FX? Video Card
40G 5400rpm HDD
MSI Motherboard

How will you rate my experience with the new system discribed above in comparison to my old system when I play a game? On a scale of 1 - 10 (10 = kikazz experience/graphics)






<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by SmokinBarrel on 03/09/05 02:45 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 9, 2005 6:06:40 PM

Do NOT raid0 the drives.

I would also suggest the Soltek KT890 board. Cheap, very fast, solid...

Good otherwise though.

s signature has been formatted to fit your scr
a b à CPUs
March 9, 2005 6:55:40 PM

1. What RAM are you looking at - mfr/model? This <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti..." target="_new">Patriot PDC1G3200LLK</A> is some really good RAM for the $147 - it was over $170 last week!
2. What mfr model for the PSU? You might be better going with the <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti..." target="_new">Fortron Blue Storm 500W</A> or the <A HREF="http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA211..." target="_new">Enermax 535W Whisper II</A>.
3. You won't be able to put the Raptor and the other drive in a RAID0.

__________________________________________________
<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 9, 2005 6:57:11 PM

Remember if you choose the DFI board you mentioned it's pci-e, so be sure to get the correct graphics card :smile:

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March 9, 2005 7:30:55 PM

To my knowledge the MSI K8N Neo4 Plat. doesn't have the option of coming with an AGP slot and the X800XL only comes in PCIe right now. SO, if you get those two components they will work together because they will be PCIe.

__________________________________________________
<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
March 9, 2005 7:35:25 PM

Otay, finally, I think I have it!!

How about this setup??? On a scale of 1 - 10 (10 being awesome setup/system) If you mark below 7, please state you cons, or improvement(s)?

MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum SLI
Seagate Barracuda 80 - 160G 7200rpm + (74G Raptor? if $$ permit)
Athlon 64 3200 90nm 939 socket
1 gig RAM PC3200
X800XL Video Card PCI-e
Antec Neo 480 Power Supplier (480 Watts) (this got a good rating, and I like the setup)
Hyundai 19" LCD - Researched on TomsHardware
NEC DVD-CD Dual Layer
Coolmaster Temp & Fan controller
a b à CPUs
March 9, 2005 7:46:33 PM

1. What RAM?
2. SLI will be useless with the X800XL. Are there features on the SLI that are not on the non-SLI? Features that you NEED and will USE?

Rest looks good. Did you plan on OCing this rig?

__________________________________________________
<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
March 9, 2005 8:03:16 PM

No O-Cing! I'm not an overclocker. So, I guess I best get the best system I can upfront, or best components.

1. RAM = Corsair TwinX 1024 PC3200XL (expensive but what I'd like to get)
2. I thought X800XL is PCI-e? or, can I purchase a PCI-e motherboard that is not SLI compatible? I thought both were one in the same? I probably won't get a second card, I like the X800XL statistics!

Now ya dun it rugger, ya confused me! :)  Okay, simply put, I don't plan to use SLI, but only one card - X800XL because of its stats against double SLI cards and a single 6800gt card. I hope I said that right, or else, I give up! :)  So, do they make a motherboard with on one PCI-e slot?







<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by SmokinBarrel on 03/09/05 05:48 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b à CPUs
March 9, 2005 9:16:57 PM

If you're not OCing then you don't need that TwinX. You won't see a performance increase from your money. Something like this <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti..." target="_new">Mushkin Dual Pack model #991145</A> will suit your needs just fine and cost less.

Some mobo info for you:
1. You do not have to get a mobo that is SLI capable to get PCIe slots for video cards.
2. The MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum uses the Nforce4 Ultra chipset, is not SLI and has a PCIe vid card slot. Read the stats from my previous link to the K8N and you will see that it is not SLI and it does have a PCIe slot.
3. PCIe is a port standard for graphics card, just like AGP is a standard. SLI is a technology that nVidia has developed that allows two video cards to run in the same system. SLI requires PCIe video card ports.
4. Read some more about video cards in <A HREF="http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041110/index..." target="_new">THGs graphics card buying guide</A>. It includes info about PCIe vs AGP as well as SLI.

__________________________________________________
<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
March 9, 2005 10:34:22 PM

Finally, My absolute & final system, and nobody can change my mind!

Seagate 160 GB 7200rpm SATA Barracuda
Patriot PDC1G3200LLK 1Gig RAM ($147.00)
MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum - nF4 Ultra Chipset (Retail)
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ (Retail) 90nm 939pins
Radeon x800 XL PCI-e
CoolMaster ATX
Antec Neopower 480W PCI-Express
NEC DVD-CD writer/reader 16X DVD Read Dual Layer
Hyundai Monitor 19"

How's that for a system! :) 

Thanks for all the help and guidance!!
March 9, 2005 11:03:48 PM

I use RAID0 since 2001, and I have no problem so far. I did try non RAID, but RAID0 is definitively faster than standard HDD. Raptor cost too much for what they hold. I rather have more capacity with RAID 0 that only 74 gigs with the Raptor. I dont care what Anandtech told about RAID, I did try both option with same drive/configuration and RAID0 is the way to go.

Raptor might be a nice toy, but for now, it is just a toy, IMHO. and by non-sli, yes, I meant non-sli motherboard. I dont have any experience with sockets 939 board except the Gigabyte k8nf-9 that I have now, and even if it is solid so far, I didnt have it for long enough(not yet 2 weeks) to make a clear recommendation, then I leave that to those who knows better that I.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
March 10, 2005 7:11:14 PM

Just out of curiousity... what are you doing that you notice a big improvement with RAID 0? It makes no difference in playing games or other simple day-to-day tasks. If one drive in the array fails, then bye-bye data.



<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
March 10, 2005 7:58:27 PM

I haven't noticed a difference other than in benchmarks with raid 0, over a multitude of different computers. I have several benches on futuremark of raid 0, 1 and my lil raptor. The raptor does better then any of them over all. =/

Current machines running F@H:
AMD: [64 3500+][64 3000+][2500+][2000+][1.3x1][366]
Intel: [X 3.0][P4 3.0][P4 2.4x5][P4 1.4]

"...and i'm not gay" RX8 -Greatest Quote of ALL Time
March 10, 2005 8:12:47 PM

Tell me that when one of your drives fails and my raptor is still chugging along in 5 years :) 

Seek times are MUCH faster with a single raptor than for a RAID0 array, and this is what determines how fast your system feels.

s signature has been formatted to fit your scr
March 10, 2005 9:49:16 PM

Seek time is good when you have to locate small files. Today, files are starting to become bigger and bigger. Level from game take now much more time than some years ago to load. They even come on DVD. Digital pictures went from 2 megapixels to 7 and more as of today. Video editing is now something mom and dad can do. We were playing with 700 megs CD some years ago, now we are talking about dual layer DVD. Movies are not rent from Blockbuster, they are downloaded from the internet. What about music. Hey, CD rip, MP3s, .. all that need storage.

So, I rather have storage, large file transfer efficiency and better price/performance/capacity than only seek time.. because I dont have small file only.

As for drive failing, if your 250 gigs drive fail, will you loose your data too? yes. Same thing as if you have 2x120 gigs drives. as for failing.. I thrust smaller drive better than bigger drive. So, I have much more confidence at my 2 seagate 160 gigs than a single one 300 gigs. And if you have to buy a drive, even only one, how can you be sure that it wont fail? I have 4 HDD in my case. 2 seagate 160 GIGS, 1 maxtor 200 gigs and one WD 40 gigs. Do my seagate drive have more chance to fail because they are RAIDed?

When I bought my 2 Seagate, the guy took 2 on the shelf. Maybe that they are both good. Or one good, one bad. or both bad. Now, if I had only bought one 300 gigs drive, and on the shelf, there was 5 goods and one bad, what were my chance to get the bad one and loose my data anyway? If there was 5 good 160 gigs and 1 bad, what were my chance to get the bad one and loose my data? 1 out of 5 for both.

How many advice again overclocking, as it could cause corruption and the lost of data? not very much. Why OC is much advisable than RAID? CPU are solid. But there is chance for one to fail.

So, you want to fell cramped with your 74 gigs of storage space, and a drive that make more noise than normal but has great seek time. Your right. But I dont. And that my right too.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
!