Thermals on the latest Prescotts?

DorkmasterFlek · Mar 21, 2005

I just put together a nice new system myself for the first time, and everything is working great so far (it actually powered up the first time!) except I'm a little concerned about my CPU temp...the BIOS hardware monitor says it's about 78-79 degrees. This seems a little high to me, although maybe the thermal paste hasn't melted on yet. The mobo temp is about 38-39 degrees, so that seems okay. I'm working with the following (copied some from the store website where I bought everything):

- Intel Pentium 4 640, 3.2 GHz, 2MB L2, 800 MHz FSB, Socket LGA775
- Asus P5GD2 Deluxe Intel 915P Chipset DDR 2 w/8-Ch Audio,IEEE 1394a,GB Lan,PCI-E X1, PCI-E X16
- Thermaltake Cooling System CL-P0092 Silent 775 Heatsink w/ Heatpipe Technology, Funneled Fan (LGA775)
- 1 GB DDR533 RAM
- WD 160 GB SATA HDD
- Connect3D Radeon X850 XT Platinum Edition 256MB

I know the Prescotts run hot, but is this expected or have I perhaps botched the thermal paste application a bit when put the heatsink on?

mozzartusm · Mar 21, 2005

You are way to hot. We need to figure this out before you get to frisky with this system. Your running one of the 600 series and they are supposed to be cooler than the 500 series which I am running. Are you sure you listed your Mobo correctly? Is that the one with the on board graphics? Ive got the Asus E-Premium but with the 925X chipset. You may not have the heatsink on there correctly.

Ned Flanders said that im a BAD ASS :lol:

mozzartusm · Mar 21, 2005

I just noticed those Mobo temps. Im Overclocked to almost 4.5 Ghz and my mobo temps arent that high. I hate to be negative, but this system really needs to be cooled with liquid. Your never going to get those temps where they need to be without either going to liquid or using one the $50.00 Zalman Heatsinks. The CPU is only one of the heat problems that your going to face. The northbridge is also an issue with this system. What brand is the RAM? You said that you had 1G of Ram, but is it 2 sticks of 512 or what?

Ned Flanders said that im a BAD ASS :lol:

TheRod · Mar 21, 2005

I would make sure that your heatsink is well sitted on the CPU and try to run the system with an open case to see if this helps... You might have bad air flow in the case.

But the ultimate cooling solution is to get an Athlon 64! My A63 3200+ @ 2.4GHz temp is 42 Celsius under 100% load with stock cooling and fan speed to AUTO (means my system is nearly silent).

-
GA-K8NF-9 / Athlon 64 3200+ @ 3800+
Infineon DDR400 (CL2.5) 2x512Megs
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DorkmasterFlek · Mar 21, 2005

Wow, first of all thanks for the good, fast replies. I've got two 512MB Kingmax sticks in there, DDR533. Man, I knew that temp sounded bad. Something tells me I'm going to end up replacing that CPU/board with an Athlon 64. I had heating problems with the old Athlon Thunderbirds and I went Intel since then and never looked back. I never thought I'd see a P4 running twice as hot as an Athlon.

What about the Athlon 64 slots? I'm not familiar with those much. What's the difference between socket 754 and 939/940? Is one newer/better than the other?

Edited by DorkmasterFlek on 03/21/05 10:47 AM.

mozzartusm · Mar 21, 2005

I just found out more good news. If his Mobo was made in the first half of 04 then it has big issues with the 600 series CPU's. Without a BIOS flash the board and/or CPU can be damaged. Its not going to be easy to flash it without a 500 series CPU. I would be one hacked off individual at the store that sold me a 600 series CPU with a Mobo that runs native DDR2 600 when you could get the 925X chipset "Big Brother" that runs native DDR2 667 and supports an FSB up to 1066 for $30.00 more.

Ned Flanders said that im a BAD ASS :lol:

mozzartusm · Mar 21, 2005

Its not the CPU or the MOBO thats the problem. Its the store that sold it to you. They sold you a chipset that doesnt really agree with that series CPU. For $30.00 more you could have gotten the P5AD2-E-Premium that will fly. Do you have an instant messenger that we could communicate through. I could catch you up on whats going on with this alot quicker if you do.

Ned Flanders said that im a BAD ASS :lol:

TheRod · Mar 21, 2005

If you want to stick mid/high-end system go for Athlon 64 S939 with 90nm chip.

Socket 754 will be there in the future only for mobile and low-end market. A64 S754 chips are not bad at all, but this platform will not support dual-core CPU or now speed grade A64. It's why I opted for S939.

If you do overclock, buyind a "low" speed 3000+ et 3200+ is a very good choice since they can be easily overclocked to 3800+ speed and beyond. AMD will soon introduce to the market a new 90nm stepping that will provide SSE3 support and theorically higher speed potential. Will probably be fairly easy to run at 3.0GHz. Current 90nm S939 can reach 2.6GHz in most case with good cooling and good mobo. Anothere "advantage" to the A64 platform is that it use DDR ram. It's inexpensive and easily overclockable if you buy good memory sticks.

If you want to change your system, here is my recommendation :
CPU : A64 S939 90nm
MOBO : nForce4 based (DFI is actually the best nForce4 mobo maker)
MEM : Any good DDR400 (or higher) modules in pair (for dual-channel)

Your Intel system is not bad, but in games, AMD really kicks the Intel butt!

-
GA-K8NF-9 / Athlon 64 3200+ @ 3800+
Infineon DDR400 (CL2.5) 2x512Megs
GeForce 6600GT 128Megs
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DorkmasterFlek · Mar 21, 2005

mozzartusm, I'm at work right now unfortunately, but I can chat at home. It sounds like you're saying my problems could be fixed with the P5AD2 board. I saw that one too but opted to go with a 915 board instead of a 925 board because of the price difference and I really didn't need some of the extra features. Do you think this is causing the problem? I'm not sure I understand what's happening, but I don't really see how a different mobo would make my proc run cooler...feel free to teach me a lesson if I'm wrong, please.

I'm also curious if you're liquid cooling your system. You mentioned that you're running a 500 series Prescott and they should run hotter. I think I'm going to refix the heatsink when I get home and see if that makes a difference at all. I really don't want to mess with liquid cooling if I can avoid it.Edited by DorkmasterFlek on 03/21/05 01:18 PM.

DorkmasterFlek · Mar 21, 2005

Man, I've been reading the replies over again. I'm not sure what to do. If I try a 925 chipset board, that's another chunk of $$$ down and it might not work. I can easily get an Athlon 64, but I'll need a board and DDR400 RAM to go with it. Not a huge deal, live and learn I guess, but now I've got a Prescott CPU, board and two sticks of DDR2 RAM I can't use. Bottom line, I should've gotten an Athlon 64 from the start. I know very little about overclocking, and thus good cooling in general, and I really don't want to touch liquid cooling. The whole thing really peeves me, because it works! The CPU temp is the only problem, but it's a big one.

peteroy · Mar 21, 2005

Click on my P4 heat sig, it might help you.

==================================
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DorkmasterFlek · Mar 21, 2005

Not a bad idea, but my main concern right now is the CPU temp, which is just far too hot the first time I powered it up. I'm going to assume for now that I probably botched the heatsink application with the thermal paste. I had some Arctic Silver 5 paste and I followed their instructions for applying it (put a small dab in the center and let the heatsink spread it with its weight). Maybe I contaminated the surface contacts by mistake. I'm going to remove, clean and reapply the paste and heatsink when I get home in a bit.

In the meantime, if anyone has any info to share about this supposed problem with the 600 series Prescotts and the 915 chipset boards, that would be greatly appreciated. I emailed the store I bought the board from to see if they will let me exchange and pay the difference on a 925 chipset board. Thanks for your help guys!Edited by DorkmasterFlek on 03/21/05 04:31 PM.

Rugger · Mar 21, 2005

That's probably the most reasonable course of action at this time. It would be a hard pill to swallow to have to sell off a new system, just to purchase another system...
Would you get better gaming performance by doing so...Yes, but it doesn't make a ton of sense to do it. <pre>dang shame to waste that 850xt on an intel system</pre>What do you plan on using to clean the cpu and hsf? If you don't have any 90% or better alcohol at home, then I recommned you pick some up on the way home...

__________________________________________________
You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!

DorkmasterFlek · Mar 22, 2005

Well I wouldn't be getting rid of the whole system, just the CPU, motherboard and RAM. I can get a PCI express mobo for an Athlon 64. I'm just kicking myself for not getting the damn 925 board for a little more. At least then I'd know for sure whether I need to get an Athlon 64 or not. Well, once I'm done reseting the heatsink here...

RichPLS · Mar 22, 2005

BIOS 1007 for P5GDC Deluxe is current, what version are you running?

<pre>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre>

pat · Mar 22, 2005

And are you sure those temp are exact? maybe thay are reported false by the system.

I would try to find a medical thermometer, which can be hold against the HSF to see if it is real hot. You could try your finger, but start at the top going toward the CPU.

Then. If the cooler is hot, but can still hold your finger agaist it, then it should be OK. But if the cooler is not that hot, then maybe it is not mounted correctly. Reseat with new thermal stuff. not too much BTW, just a thin layer. Recheck temp to see any amelioration

If the cooler is hot, but the system stable under load, then I would not worry. Just make sure you have some circulation inside the case and the hot air at the top is evacuated. Then stop worrying and enjoy.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware, UNLESS YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A MSI BOARD !!!

DorkmasterFlek · Mar 22, 2005

Okay, update time! The store let me exchange the 915 board (P5GD2) for a 925 board, the P5AD2-E I think, so yeehaw. I also discovered, when I removed the heatsink and CPU, that I need some lessons in applying thermal paste.

I followed Arctic Silver's directions of putting a small dab and letting the heatsink spread it with its weight. Maybe I didn't put enough on in the first place, but there was a tiny circle of paste in the center of the CPU, so that's probably my problem right there. I'm going to try spreading the paste into a thin layer if I can, either that or putting more on this time.

You guys have been a great source of info on this!

mozzartusm · Mar 22, 2005

Ive been out, sorry I havent gotten back until now. You dont need to put alot of paste, just a very thin coat spread evenly across the CPU.

Im using liquid now, but used the stock cooler for a few days and my temps were fine. The 915 chipset on that Mobo has some issues with the 600 series CPU's. There is a BIOS fix, but you wouldnt be able to flash with that CPU. Im glad to hear that you are getting the 925X. Thats the same Mobo that I have. This is a very nice board and shouldnt give you any problems. Post all of the spes for your components. PSU, RAM, etc... List the brand and any other info.

Ned Flanders said that im a BAD ASS :lol:

mozzartusm · Mar 22, 2005

The temp sensors on these boards are right on target. He probably got one of the boards that was made in the first half of 04. There was something about them that causes the 600 series CPU to not work correctly.

Ned Flanders said that im a BAD ASS :lol:

Cybercraig · Mar 22, 2005

I prefer to spread a thin layer of AS-5 with a wooden spatula about 1/4" wide. I don't like the "dab-in-the-center routine. It will take a while for AS-5 to cure and give you your lowest temps anyway.

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DorkmasterFlek · Mar 22, 2005

Alrighty, one more update for the road. I installed the new board and reapplied the paste and heatsink and it looks like we're in business! The new board is working great, and the Asus PC Probe utility shows my idle CPU temp at about 33-35 degrees, and I noticed it hit 48-49 when I was cranking out the updates and it was working. Those numbers look good to me, but I'll post them here just to be sure.

If you still want to know, I'm using a Thermaltake Purepower PSU. I spread a thin layer of paste across the entire CPU this time, instead of the dab method. That seemed to do the trick. Those numbers should hopefully go down a little more once the paste sets in. You guys have been awesome, thank you so much for all the help!Edited by DorkmasterFlek on 03/22/05 01:54 AM.

mozzartusm · Mar 22, 2005

Good for you! I felt really bad about being so negative in my first few post, but I thought that you should know the facts. Turns out it worked out in your favor this time. Be careful in the future and ask more questions before you make a purchase. Keep me posted on how your system is doing. I would like to know more about the 600 series CPU's and what they have to offer.

Ned Flanders said that im a BAD ASS :lol:
Intel 550(3.4)@4.2
ASUS P5AD2-E-Prem
Ballistix PC5300@DDR2 780
TT 680W PSU

Rugger · Mar 22, 2005

Congrats!

__________________________________________________
You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!

DorkmasterFlek · Mar 22, 2005

Yeah, don't worry about it mozzar, I appreciate the heads up. I didn't research the new Prescotts and the boards well enough or maybe I would've caught that issue. I've also never put together a machine from scratch before, so this was all a great learning experience in the end.

I ran a CPU test on Sandra with the monitoring software up and I noticed that the CPU temp hit about 59-60 when fully utilized during the test, then it dropped right back down to 33-35 when the test finished. I think that's still okay though. If it caps at 60 when fully utilized and the paste hasn't set in yet, it should be in the 50s when it does, so I think I'm good. I want to keep doing some stress tests, see what it looks like when I finish getting things set up and install WoW for instance.

I'm going to run back to back CPU tests to keep it stressed for 5-10 minutes solid and see if the temp goes above 60 when I get home.

One other thing mozzar, in my device manager I have two devices that don't have drivers installed yet listed as "Unknown". When I ask it to try to install drivers automatically, it doesn't find anything on the CD. I haven't check the ASUS site for anything yet, I'm at work now. Any idea what they are? Just thought I'd ask since you have the same board. Thanks again for your help everyone!
Edited by DorkmasterFlek on 03/22/05 09:51 AM.

mozzartusm · Mar 22, 2005

Yes, I probably know exactly what the deal is. Tell me what the devices are and I will let you know. Remind me to tell you about the Asus Probe and Ai Booster.

Ned Flanders said that im a BAD ASS :lol:
Intel 550(3.4)@4.2
ASUS P5AD2-E-Prem
Ballistix PC5300@DDR2 780
ATI Radeon X800XL
TT 680W PSU

Thermals on the latest Prescotts?

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